From the Ashes (Coal Documentary)

MountaineerWV

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Sep 18, 2007
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https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/coal-industry-collapsing-coal-workers-153000400.html



"It's just heartbreaking now that they closed down they take their workers' pensions, they take their retirements, their savings, anything they had in the company. They file bankruptcy...As long as they got their money in their pocket they don't care," said Lilly.

In the documentary, Mary Anne Hitt, director of Sierra Club's Beyond Coal campaign and a West Virginia resident, described the aftermath of a mine layoff as a "life and death struggle" for local communities. She described the scene as one she's seen time and again, where coal companies "want to shed their obligations to workers, that includes pensions and healthcare commitments."

In a tale familiar to coal communities, Oliver highlighted the story of when Alpha Natural Resources filed for bankruptcy two years ago. CEO Kevin Crutchfield appeared on television with tears in his eyes talking about how he felt for his coal workers. However, Oliver found court documents stating Alpha later asked its bankruptcy trustee if the coal company could save $3 million by cutting health and life insurance benefits of around 1,200 non-union retireesso that the company could then pay $11.9 million in bonuses to fifteen top executives, including Crutchfield.

Coal miners overwhelmingly supported President Trump in the 2016 election. Trump appealed to the loss of coal jobs in Appalachia, and blamed the loss on environmental regulations — but statistics show natural gas is pricing coal out of the market, not regulations.

In 2010, about 45% of the electricity in the US came from coal, with 24% from natural gas and 31% coming from other sources. As of 2016 the stats were 30% coal, 34% natural gas, and 36% other,according to the US Energy and Information Administration.
 

PriddyBoy

Junior
May 29, 2001
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You must not have ever heard or talked to retired miners who have experienced this..........
Haha! You're a squirmy lil' son of a gun. Starts threads and begins running serpentine through mortar blasts until one hits. Love it.
 

MountaineerWV

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Sep 18, 2007
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Haha! You're a squirmy lil' son of a gun. Starts threads and begins running serpentine through mortar blasts until one hits. Love it.

And I notice none of you will answer the question: Did the coal operators take away the retirements and health insurance of retired miners WHILE giving themselves nice golden parachutes?
 

WVUCOOPER

Redshirt
Dec 10, 2002
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And I notice none of you will answer the question: Did the coal operators take away the retirements and health insurance of retired miners WHILE giving themselves nice golden parachutes?
I doubt it's as simple as you put it. To work through a bankruptcy a company would need to retain their talent throughout the process and (hopefully) after. Working through bankruptcy, the company would be negotiating with its creditors. Retired miners insurance and pensions were surely included as creditors. I'm sure they (the retired miners) lost some - that's what bankruptcy is - but I doubt they negotiated all of their benefits to zero.

Edited to add: All of this is done under close supervision of the courts.
 

MountaineerWV

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Sep 18, 2007
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I doubt it's as simple as you put it. To work through a bankruptcy a company would need to retain their talent throughout the process and (hopefully) after. Working through bankruptcy, the company would be negotiating with its creditors. Retired miners insurance and pensions were surely included as creditors. I'm sure they (the retired miners) lost some - that's what bankruptcy is - but I doubt they negotiated all of their benefits to zero.

Edited to add: All of this is done under close supervision of the courts.

So, the miner I have spoken to is wrong? He said that they are going to cut health benefits and pensions? And what about these same executives at Alpha Resources that have gotten between $2-5 million dollars each year, even during their "financial problems" that are causing them to look at cutting health benefits and pensions?
 

dave

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May 29, 2001
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So, the miner I have spoken to is wrong? He said that they are going to cut health benefits and pensions? And what about these same executives at Alpha Resources that have gotten between $2-5 million dollars each year, even during their "financial problems" that are causing them to look at cutting health benefits and pensions?
Coop wasted his time trying to explain it to you. You have no idea how things work. I doubt the miner you spoke too was going to explain it either because he either didnt understand it either or he know you are nuts so he was short with you.

It was federal bankruptcy. Do you really think they are going to get by with anything illegal in federal court?
 

PriddyBoy

Junior
May 29, 2001
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And I notice none of you will answer the question: Did the coal operators take away the retirements and health insurance of retired miners WHILE giving themselves nice golden parachutes?
My only point is you posted a docudrama and morphed the thread into whom somebody must not have talked to, dancer.
 

MountaineerWV

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Sep 18, 2007
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Coop wasted his time trying to explain it to you. You have no idea how things work. I doubt the miner you spoke too was going to explain it either because he either didnt understand it either or he know you are nuts so he was short with you.

It was federal bankruptcy. Do you really think they are going to get by with anything illegal in federal court?

Federal bankruptcy, huh? Nice that they can still afford to allow bonuses for their executives. Perhaps you don't understand things, Dave. Since you are a fraud, 100%. ;)
 

WVUCOOPER

Redshirt
Dec 10, 2002
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So, the miner I have spoken to is wrong? He said that they are going to cut health benefits and pensions? And what about these same executives at Alpha Resources that have gotten between $2-5 million dollars each year, even during their "financial problems" that are causing them to look at cutting health benefits and pensions?
I doubt the miner you spoke to is very balanced in how he sees it. Not that I would blame him. Alpha is a public company, with shareholders and a BOD. They have a fiduciary duty to retain top talent. In the coal industry, that's going to lead to very high earnings. Why would an employee of Alpha stay on to make less? This isn't a Disney movie, it's life. If anything, it probably costs more to retain them. This is all negotiated with the creditors of the company within the confines of our court system.

Also, being fixated on 11-13 mil when the company is 4 billion under water is just so silly to me. Like all the "conservatives" bitching about welfare programs and discretionary spending when it comes to our national debt.
 

MountaineerWV

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Sep 18, 2007
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Nice of Alpha to fight for their executives to receive their bonuses during the bankruptcy negotiations while screwing their retirees.......

Less than six months after Virginia-based coal company Alpha Natural Resources filed for bankruptcy in federal court, the feds have issued an official objection to a company announcement that they intend to pay executive bonuses of $11.9 million in 2016.

This Tuesday, the US Trustee division of the Department of Justice, which oversees Chapter 11 filings, issued an objection to a US bankruptcy court in Virginia, noting that the intended payments, to be made to 15 of the company's most highly compensated executives, was not only likely to violate bankruptcy laws, but that such payments could not be justified, given the reportedly dire financial state of the company.

"Alpha seeks relief while at the same time incurring more than $1.3 billion in losses for 2015," the document noted, adding that Alpha would, in addition, be seeking "to cut off the health and life insurance benefits to some 1,200 rank and file retirees because it claims it desperately needs to save $3 million a year."

The potential bonuses to be paid by Alpha in 2016 were higher, in fact, than those paid to executives in the years leading up to the bankruptcy filing, the objection noted.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
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Nice of Alpha to fight for their executives to receive their bonuses during the bankruptcy negotiations while screwing their retirees.......

Less than six months after Virginia-based coal company Alpha Natural Resources filed for bankruptcy in federal court, the feds have issued an official objection to a company announcement that they intend to pay executive bonuses of $11.9 million in 2016.

This Tuesday, the US Trustee division of the Department of Justice, which oversees Chapter 11 filings, issued an objection to a US bankruptcy court in Virginia, noting that the intended payments, to be made to 15 of the company's most highly compensated executives, was not only likely to violate bankruptcy laws, but that such payments could not be justified, given the reportedly dire financial state of the company.

"Alpha seeks relief while at the same time incurring more than $1.3 billion in losses for 2015," the document noted, adding that Alpha would, in addition, be seeking "to cut off the health and life insurance benefits to some 1,200 rank and file retirees because it claims it desperately needs to save $3 million a year."

The potential bonuses to be paid by Alpha in 2016 were higher, in fact, than those paid to executives in the years leading up to the bankruptcy filing, the objection noted.
The only thing worse than being ignorant is being unwilling to learn. You are nothing but an idiot. Sad part is you likely made money because of the actions of the coal company and you are too stupid to realize it.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
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Federal bankruptcy, huh? Nice that they can still afford to allow bonuses for their executives. Perhaps you don't understand things, Dave. Since you are a fraud, 100%. ;)
How can I help you understand anything when you dont want to pay attention.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
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What are you gonna teach me? How to decorate your parent's basement? [laughing] Fraud......
My parents dont have a basement. I can decorate my own basement. You can talk down to me when you figure out basic economics you fuktard imbecile.