How deep does this rabbit hole go? So far it looks like Page and Grimsley games.
This post was edited on 11/13 1:56 PM by blindref73
This post was edited on 11/13 1:56 PM by blindref73
Full Investigation of Dudley
- Thread starter blindref73
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Re: NCHSAA Full Investigation of Dudley
NCHSAA does not do in investigations. Guilford Schools would handle the investigation. The superintendent is the former assistant in Meck County when they had the outside investigators come in. Three schools forfeited their full seasons.
NCHSAA does not do in investigations. Guilford Schools would handle the investigation. The superintendent is the former assistant in Meck County when they had the outside investigators come in. Three schools forfeited their full seasons.
Re: NCHSAA Full Investigation of Dudley
I remember that all too well. I know people that were involved in that one. They don't question you, they grill you.
This post was edited on 11/13 1:58 PM by blindref73
I remember that all too well. I know people that were involved in that one. They don't question you, they grill you.
This post was edited on 11/13 1:58 PM by blindref73
Acccording to Coach Davis during the appeals process, the same player dressed for Person, Grimsley and Southern Alamance.
http://www.highschoolot.com/dudley-s-final-appeal-squashed-by-nchsaa-board-of-directors/14175962/
http://www.highschoolot.com/dudley-s-final-appeal-squashed-by-nchsaa-board-of-directors/14175962/
Sounds like coach has been working hard on his db drills
backpedal backpedal backpedal
He first came out and tried to use the excuse "but the rule book says that once the JV season is over, JV players can be moved up to varsity." So why did you move the kid up all the other weeks?
Now its "oh well we only moved him up to play in blow out situations".
How about "I was wrong. I tried to bend the rules and I was wrong. There is no excuse why this happened and I am sorry to the team, the school and the community for my actions as the head coach which have led them to lose their opportunity to play for a state championship. The responsibility is fully on me."
People make mistakes. But when you do, OWN IT!
backpedal backpedal backpedal
He first came out and tried to use the excuse "but the rule book says that once the JV season is over, JV players can be moved up to varsity." So why did you move the kid up all the other weeks?
Now its "oh well we only moved him up to play in blow out situations".
How about "I was wrong. I tried to bend the rules and I was wrong. There is no excuse why this happened and I am sorry to the team, the school and the community for my actions as the head coach which have led them to lose their opportunity to play for a state championship. The responsibility is fully on me."
People make mistakes. But when you do, OWN IT!
Again the question in my mind is why the kid was needed both nights? As far as I am concerned he wasn't.
They won't have to do too much investigating if the information I have is correct. SEG turned over proof of ineligible players in violation of numerous rules going back at least 5 years.
Violations include players that SEG deemed to be academically ineligible that transferred to Dudley and played right away (SEG submitted their academic transcripts), players who didn't meet residency requirements but who played anyway without first being approved by the Guilford Co academic board (or something like that...I'm not 100% certain how that whole situation works), and at least one kid who who didn't meet the age requirements to play in North Carolina (too old).
These are in addition to the weekly violations of the 8 qtr rule that have been going on ever since Davis has been the coach there (which he is slowly starting to admit to...a few kids at a time). He's claiming he doesn't know the rules...but if that's true and he really doesn't know them this year, then he didn't know then in any of the prior 13 years, either. Maybe it's just me...but this doesn't seem like the brightest defense of my actions that I could've presented to the NCHSAA.
All told, this is going to involve many dozens of kids going back the last half-decade.
There's more here that I'm not posting about, but some of it involves current players so I'll save that stuff for a more appropriate time.
Violations include players that SEG deemed to be academically ineligible that transferred to Dudley and played right away (SEG submitted their academic transcripts), players who didn't meet residency requirements but who played anyway without first being approved by the Guilford Co academic board (or something like that...I'm not 100% certain how that whole situation works), and at least one kid who who didn't meet the age requirements to play in North Carolina (too old).
These are in addition to the weekly violations of the 8 qtr rule that have been going on ever since Davis has been the coach there (which he is slowly starting to admit to...a few kids at a time). He's claiming he doesn't know the rules...but if that's true and he really doesn't know them this year, then he didn't know then in any of the prior 13 years, either. Maybe it's just me...but this doesn't seem like the brightest defense of my actions that I could've presented to the NCHSAA.
All told, this is going to involve many dozens of kids going back the last half-decade.
There's more here that I'm not posting about, but some of it involves current players so I'll save that stuff for a more appropriate time.
If what Hokie writes is true then I would expect the staff at Dudley to include the principal and AD to be terminated. I also expect a more in-depth look at SEG. If they have kept a file for five years and just decided to use it and in the way it was handled I expect the superintendent will have a problem with that.
Guilford County needs to look at the residency/transfer issues much more closely along with the magnet programs. I think the NCHSAA needs to get more involved in requirements instead of allowing the separate counties to regulate. This not only happens at 4A schools in urban areas but also their smaller schools and in the more remote areas and small towns. I think the first rule that needs to go on the books is if you attend a school that is not your "home district assigned" school the student needs to sit out for 365 days of sports from the day they transfer. That is where the most severe issues seem to arise from.
Guilford County needs to look at the residency/transfer issues much more closely along with the magnet programs. I think the NCHSAA needs to get more involved in requirements instead of allowing the separate counties to regulate. This not only happens at 4A schools in urban areas but also their smaller schools and in the more remote areas and small towns. I think the first rule that needs to go on the books is if you attend a school that is not your "home district assigned" school the student needs to sit out for 365 days of sports from the day they transfer. That is where the most severe issues seem to arise from.
LOL so Dudley was crooked afterall? Stupid me for thinking they were an actual clean program who won the right way. WOW.
So turns out they basically had to cheat to beat North Davidson last year more or less.... makes sense.
So turns out they basically had to cheat to beat North Davidson last year more or less.... makes sense.
Seriously, in Forsyth County, you can live across the street from North Forsyth and attend West Forsyth if you want too. I seem to remember a few years ago when RJ Reynolds was steam rolling everybody in 4A basketball. One year when RJR won the 4A state basketball title, a local coach told me that 12 of their 13 players did not even live in the RJR district!
Yea about 12 years ago. I guess that is a few and it was 2 schools. And is WS/FC schools in the news every year breaking a NCHSAA rule like a GSO school is each year?
Anyway, this discussion is about Dudley.
This post was edited on 11/13 5:19 PM by Sportsnut17
Lol told ya! Be careful what you ask for you just might get it!! Seems they have even doing this for some time! Cheaters never win! Kids always loose on a situation like this!
Well...to be clear here...there's been no due process performed here at all yet in this case that has been made public, so it's still to be determined how much of the info I have is accurate, and even if so, how much of it will actually be acted upon.
I do know these for a fact, though...at first it was only one player accidentally getting on the field during an injury situation for only two plays. THEN it was a misunderstanding of the end-of-season rules, THEN it was four players who were ineligible, THEN it was multiple players over multiple games...and NOW the NCHSAA tells Dudley that they will be back in touch with them about some other questions and concerns that have come to their attention.
Hmmmm....and every day now it continues to grow. Doesn't sound like "nothing," does it?
Guys and gals let this die. Dudley is out and more trouble brewing for them so let them handle there business and let's play football. Good luck to all tomorrow night!
bearsfan83 posted on 11/13/2014...
Guys and gals let this die. Dudley is out and more trouble brewing for them so let them handle there business and let's play football. Good luck to all tomorrow night!
Exactly 83 and Amen, to that!
Guys and gals let this die. Dudley is out and more trouble brewing for them so let them handle there business and let's play football. Good luck to all tomorrow night!
Exactly 83 and Amen, to that!
Difficult to know, TGT. Based on the situation that we had in Fayetteville, the NCHSAA evidently reviews the 8 Qtr. forms thoroughly, as they discovered the Pine Forest situation while reviewing their reports. So I would guess, no.
The form does not have a blank for the player's grade level. However, it does say that only freshman and sophomores can participate via 8 qtr.
8 Quarter Pre-Participation Form
It used to be that way, now it has changed. But let's be straight, the first part of the rule for NCHSAA states, you must be eligible by your LEA standards. And in WS at the time, all you had to do was put in a board transfer and if granted, you could go to the school that you asked for as long as you had your own transportation.Originally posted by Rameses:
Seriously, in Forsyth County, you can live across the street from North Forsyth and attend West Forsyth if you want too. I seem to remember a few years ago when RJ Reynolds was steam rolling everybody in 4A basketball. One year when RJR won the 4A state basketball title, a local coach told me that 12 of their 13 players did not even live in the RJR district!
In Meck Co. when open enrollment was going on, it was similar in a sense, but they actually would provide transportation for Magnet programs and school choice.
Both has changed since then and they are stricter policies, but still some leadway to live in one school district and get to another and be eligible.
If you think this is going to change, when the biggest talk around the state this past summer was about charter schools and being able to live in one county or state and choose another school, doubt it.
Basketball has been doing this since all these so call Prep, Christian etc schools begin to open.
I keep telling kids, I enjoyed the day when I was young and the guys I played in my backyard as a 7 year old, was the same guys I played on the field with in my senior year in high school. I can still go back to my home and someone from that family is living in that same house. And while growing up, you knew what side of the street you live on, what Elementary, Middle and High School you were attending. We didn't nee to receive a SCHOOL ASSIGNMENT letter in the mail. Telling us what our home school was.
If you ask a parent of a Elementary kid now that lives in Charlotte or Forsyth, middle school there child will attend? They would say, I do not know. I have not made a decision yet. Same as when they get into middle school. Much less ask the kid. How do a kid in the 6 grade, do not know what high school he or she will attend.
When I was in the 6th grade, the 6th-12th graders rode the same bus to school. because the High school and Middle school was next to each other and on the SAME BELL schedule, which is not the case in the bigger cities also.
Let me stop before I write a book.
Let's enjoy some football tonight.
Good Luck to everyone.
you can't expect things in 2014 to be like they were in 1914Originally posted by 1whoknows:
It used to be that way, now it has changed. But let's be straight, the first part of the rule for NCHSAA states, you must be eligible by your LEA standards. And in WS at the time, all you had to do was put in a board transfer and if granted, you could go to the school that you asked for as long as you had your own transportation.Originally posted by Rameses:
Seriously, in Forsyth County, you can live across the street from North Forsyth and attend West Forsyth if you want too. I seem to remember a few years ago when RJ Reynolds was steam rolling everybody in 4A basketball. One year when RJR won the 4A state basketball title, a local coach told me that 12 of their 13 players did not even live in the RJR district!
In Meck Co. when open enrollment was going on, it was similar in a sense, but they actually would provide transportation for Magnet programs and school choice.
Both has changed since then and they are stricter policies, but still some leadway to live in one school district and get to another and be eligible.
If you think this is going to change, when the biggest talk around the state this past summer was about charter schools and being able to live in one county or state and choose another school, doubt it.
Basketball has been doing this since all these so call Prep, Christian etc schools begin to open.
I keep telling kids, I enjoyed the day when I was young and the guys I played in my backyard as a 7 year old, was the same guys I played on the field with in my senior year in high school. I can still go back to my home and someone from that family is living in that same house. And while growing up, you knew what side of the street you live on, what Elementary, Middle and High School you were attending. We didn't nee to receive a SCHOOL ASSIGNMENT letter in the mail. Telling us what our home school was.
If you ask a parent of a Elementary kid now that lives in Charlotte or Forsyth, middle school there child will attend? They would say, I do not know. I have not made a decision yet. Same as when they get into middle school. Much less ask the kid. How do a kid in the 6 grade, do not know what high school he or she will attend.
When I was in the 6th grade, the 6th-12th graders rode the same bus to school. because the High school and Middle school was next to each other and on the SAME BELL schedule, which is not the case in the bigger cities also.
Let me stop before I write a book.
Let's enjoy some football tonight.
Good Luck to everyone.
Its not all that different in Forsyth County. A kid can attend any school of their choice as long as they submit their paperwork in the two two-week windows. What has changed is the fact that a kid cant play the same sport at two different schools. But we have had basketball players play for three different teams in the same year. Now if a kid practices a sport at a given school he cant participate in that sport at another school. Forsyth County is the wild wild west and its not getting any better!!
The form does not have a blank for the player's grade level.
My guess is it will now. My guess also is that the coaches will be required to take a short course on these issues (which would not be a bad thing) in hopes that it did not happen again. Good luck on that.
My guess is it will now. My guess also is that the coaches will be required to take a short course on these issues (which would not be a bad thing) in hopes that it did not happen again. Good luck on that.
Once again, I am not sure what ws/fc schools has to do with a thread about Dudley investigation. Third place in a conference that only has 3 teams with winning records makes them good and they lost to the other 2 teams with winning records.
This post was edited on 11/15 11:01 PM by Sportsnut17
I am not sure how that would be handled. The NCHSAA deadline for penalties from last football season would be September 1, 2014. Basically a statute of limitations. The school system may could decide to forfeit in some form.
3.2.6 Statute of Limitations: September 1 of the following year is the deadline for all incidents,
violations, etc., to be reported to the NCHSAA.
When West Charlotte self reported the 1997 games in 1998 they did so only a few weeks before the date. Cost them nearly $19,000 in playoff money and fines. (Big gate at Richmond in the second round!)
My question is where was the A.D. and principal during all of this? It seems that Dudley's verification process was non existent for the most part. I believe multiple people could lose their jobs or be reassigned over this. Also if SEG sat on a file pertaining to Dudley athletics than you have to question and investigate their handling of this also. The ironic thing in all of this in my opinion is that I am sure that Dudley has more than enough quality athletes to compete without breaking rules..
I think a bigger discussion needs to happen about who is responsible for investigating and reporting. The school districts handle everything in house in these situations and it's natural that the county AD would hide as much as possible and keep quiet. It reflects poorly on the school district.
Same thing occurred in CMS during the 2007 mess. The county AD knew about EVERYTHING for years since evidence had been turned in each year, but didn't want to it to get out. It took people getting so fed up with the lack of action that the noise got so loud she couldn't control it anymore.
Things like this should be turned into the NCHSAA and have them investigate or make the county AD aware of the issues and set a time-table for action to take place. If no action occurs, now the county AD has to answer to the NCHSAA.
Same thing occurred in CMS during the 2007 mess. The county AD knew about EVERYTHING for years since evidence had been turned in each year, but didn't want to it to get out. It took people getting so fed up with the lack of action that the noise got so loud she couldn't control it anymore.
Things like this should be turned into the NCHSAA and have them investigate or make the county AD aware of the issues and set a time-table for action to take place. If no action occurs, now the county AD has to answer to the NCHSAA.
The Guilford County Board of Education will investigate this matter and share their findings with the NCHSAA I am told.
Who cares anymore. They cheated and have been doing this. Get it straight and move on. Nuff said
Nobody is losing their job or getting reassigned because of this. I think its funny how some are saying who cares, it's over, move on while others are wanting a full fledged comprehensive investigation going back years. Makes my eyes hurt from rolling so hard.
I'm a Ragsdale guy and my team benefited from the whole fiasco but I still hate it for Dudley. I know many grumble about how they use the academy to stock their roster and yeas even Ragsdale lost some talent to them over the years but overall I don't see anything wrong with it. I have always enjoyed the Ragsdale Dudley football games and win or lose their teams always fought hard, played clean and showed good sportsmanship. It was good to see.
And while I have no knowledge of the whole junior/JV thing I have to wonder about the people who say they have been doing it for years. If they were and people knew about it why didn't anyone report them before now. And while I understand why it's against the rules I don't think it really had that much to do with their success. Playing juniors on JV might but dressing a few out for a play or two at mop up time didn't really help them win championships.
I'm a Ragsdale guy and my team benefited from the whole fiasco but I still hate it for Dudley. I know many grumble about how they use the academy to stock their roster and yeas even Ragsdale lost some talent to them over the years but overall I don't see anything wrong with it. I have always enjoyed the Ragsdale Dudley football games and win or lose their teams always fought hard, played clean and showed good sportsmanship. It was good to see.
And while I have no knowledge of the whole junior/JV thing I have to wonder about the people who say they have been doing it for years. If they were and people knew about it why didn't anyone report them before now. And while I understand why it's against the rules I don't think it really had that much to do with their success. Playing juniors on JV might but dressing a few out for a play or two at mop up time didn't really help them win championships.
+1000
Dudley has alot haters, wouldn't surprise me at all if next year they play the starters into the 4th and run up the score on everyone they play
Well if Dudley has haters than they have given the people whom hate them a ton of ammo...
Originally posted by wossa:
Nobody is losing their job or getting reassigned because of this. I think its funny how some are saying who cares, it's over, move on while others are wanting a full fledged comprehensive investigation going back years. Makes my eyes hurt from rolling so hard.
How did you expect people to react to the situation brewing at Dudley on a high school football message board? Especially when it involves one of the best high school programs in the state. Many rival and neutral football fans will take notice. No one knows how this will eventually turn out in the end including you. I have some medicated eye drops if you need them.
Dudley has alot haters, wouldn't surprise me at all if next year they play the starters into the 4th and run up the score on everyone they play
Well if Dudley has haters than they have given the people whom hate them a ton of ammo...
Originally posted by wossa:
Nobody is losing their job or getting reassigned because of this. I think its funny how some are saying who cares, it's over, move on while others are wanting a full fledged comprehensive investigation going back years. Makes my eyes hurt from rolling so hard.
How did you expect people to react to the situation brewing at Dudley on a high school football message board? Especially when it involves one of the best high school programs in the state. Many rival and neutral football fans will take notice. No one knows how this will eventually turn out in the end including you. I have some medicated eye drops if you need them.
The NCHSAA can only go back a year from a certain date but Guilford County Schools can go back as far as they want. Whether or not they do this is speculative at best.