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Game Officials Playoff Assignments

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HRCJR

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Jun 30, 2014
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A bunch of questions about playoff officials.

How are game officials evaluated throughout the season? Who evaluates them? How often are they evaluated?

How far in advance are they assigned to playoff games? Do they do games every week during the playoffs?

Are the best officials selected or is it by a crew?

Are they given rule tests regularly? If so, how often?

Do they attend clinics (online or in person) before the playoffs so the games will be officiated in the same manner?
 
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HRCJR

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Jun 30, 2014
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godfthr53 said:
Officials are evaluated by both teams each week.
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Are they ever evaluated by someone independent? Old grizzled official who might know the mechanics and rules better than the coaches of each team.

What are areas of evaluation?
 
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i011763

Freshman
Nov 12, 2001
755
80
28
HRCJR said:
A bunch of questions about playoff officials.

How are game officials evaluated throughout the season? Who evaluates them? How often are they evaluated?

How far in advance are they assigned to playoff games? Do they do games every week during the playoffs?

Are the best officials selected or is it by a crew?

Are they given rule tests regularly? If so, how often?

Do they attend clinics (online or in person) before the playoffs so the games will be officiated in the same manner?
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Coaches have the right to evaluate officials for each varsity contest. Sadly less than 70% of the coaches do so

Playoff games are assigned by round. The first round comes out in week 8 or so, followed by round 2 which were released the week 9 (I believe) this year, quarters came out right before the 1st round. Semi's came out late last week. Finals have not yet been released
After the schools determine the date/time of games the crews are provided their assignment for that week. zthe exception being when a final is assigned, the crews know which class they will be officiating

Assignments are typically done by crews.

Tests are required each year by each official

There are not playoff clinics required or offered by the IHSA
 
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Chief321

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Nov 8, 2015
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HRCJR said:
Do they attend clinics (online or in person) before the playoffs so the games will be officiated in the same manner?
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The playoffs dont have different rules, so there is no need for a "playoff clinic". The expectation is you officiate the same way you did in the regular season, which is why you are officiating a playoff, or multiple playoff games. All officials have the same rules/mechanics books, ideally the officiating is standardized throughout. Just like players make mistakes, so do officials.
 
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HRCJR

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Jun 30, 2014
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Chief321 said:
The playoffs dont have different rules, so there is no need for a "playoff clinic". The expectation is you officiate the same way you did in the regular season, which is why you are officiating a playoff, or multiple playoff games. All officials have the same rules/mechanics books, ideally the officiating is standardized throughout. Just like players make mistakes, so do officials.
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I know the playoffs do have the same rules. What I was meaning is trying to get everyone from the whole state to apply the rules in the same way.

Overall the officials, I think the officials do a very good job.

I definitely do not think, however, the mechanics are not the same from crew to crew. Just how the back judge indicates how much time is left on the play clock varies. Some put a hand up at 10 seconds and wave at 5 seconds, some just start waving at 5 seconds.

Also notice variation on how they worked with the chain crew. Stuff like that.

I spent 20 years refereeing rugby and one of the biggest struggles is to get consistency from referee to referee. I have to imagine it is much harder in football as you have 5 on field officials compared to 1 in rugby (3 if you include the AR).

USA Rugby puts this out each year. Is there on similar for HS football? If so can you post a link to it. Would make for useful reading.

I do find it odd that the 1/4 final assignments come out before the first round. What happens if a crew really screws it up in a first or second round game?
 
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capnbillhitters

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May 18, 2015
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Do assignments get made regionally? Do refs ever travel to other parts of the state?

Really hoping GW gets a fair shake down in E'ville this weekend. Hearing horror stories of teams getting out penalized 12-1 down there. I have also read some comments by E'ville people feeling they were overpenalized in Oswego.

Would really hate to see any regional bias mar a game that is lining up to be a classic match up of really well coached, highly skilled teams.
 
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RockSoup

All-Conference
Oct 1, 2009
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capnbillhitters said:
Do assignments get made regionally? Do refs ever travel to other parts of the state?

Really hoping GW gets a fair shake down in E'ville this weekend. Hearing horror stories of teams getting out penalized 12-1 down there. I have also read some comments by E'ville people feeling they were overpenalized in Oswego.

Would really hate to see any regional bias mar a game that is lining up to be a classic match up of really well coached, highly skilled teams.
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Winning down there means the tone has to be set from the 1st quarter on and do not take the foot off the gas. Unsportsmanlike conducts and phantom Defensive Pass Interferences tend to extend drives in the 4th quarter sometimes for the home team.
 
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ignazio

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I always like how two one-loss or undefeated teams can get to the quarterfinals or semifinals, then just like that we can't go three plays without seeing a flag.
 
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Goomlah

Goomlah

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Jul 29, 2011
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I'm going to say something that's very important and needs to come out. Officials are human too. We make mistakes. Everyone wants officials to Get 100% if calls correct. That will never happen even with instant replay, as you can see in the NFL. Officials are critical of their own performances as well. I was the 1st person to mention the safety at Montini Saturday. I even mentioned it on my Twitter blog. Do I think the call had an impact on the game? No as the score was 42-10, but I wanted to see if the call on the field was correct or not. I am not a perfect official, and neither are any of the varsity officials, but I will tell you wholeheartedly we have great officials in this state, and many games are done without a hitch. As for actual mechanics no crews do everything exactly the same. There are things that should be done all the time but as I said getting everyone to do the same thing won't happen ever. My point is give these officials a break please they are not here to screw 1 team over another.
 
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HRCJR

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I did not start this thread with an ulterior motive. Really just wondering how officials are evaluated and how they are assigned to the playoffs.

I have been to a number of games (definitely more than not) this year where the officials were not noticed and others where the game management was a bit odd. I never question official's judgement but do get mildly irked when the games are poorly managed. Two vastly different things.

I would hope that crews are assigned to games where neither team has them seen all year.

I guess the original purpose was just curiosity - nothing more. Officiating is very difficult and I think people will tend to leave them to the game if they know all that goes into getting a playoff assignments.
 
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Normdog

Sophomore
Oct 28, 2015
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even at the HS level it is a fast game, and mistakes are going to happen, that is understandable. As a parent of a player and a fan, I also think that player safety is the first priority of the officials, for the most part the enforcement of what would be "safety" rules, seems to get called correctly.

I think the greatest frustration from a fan or parent perspective is inconsistency. Not just between crews but even in the same game. For example, with targeting calls, probably the greatest "rules" change in the last 10 years or so. Shots to the head should get called. Shoulder pad to middle chest, hard hit, seems to get called quite a bit. Maybe just the "whiplash" effect on the head, but, frustrating.

The majority of the inconsistency seems to be when an official is out of position, for example on a PI where the side judge on the opposite side of the field 30 yards away throws a flag on a play 2 yards in front on the near side official. Nothing is more frustrating from the stands.

Or in simple positioning, some crews the Umpire is 4 yards back from the ball, others it is 8 yards.

Lastly, this is a personal gripe, probably b/c my son is a LB, but, seriously why does it seem that with 33% the crews that the Umpire is 300+ pounds and those are the guys that are 4 yards off the ball, unable/unwilling to move. Seriously, can't they be out of the center of play? Switched out with one of the side judges?
 
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RetiredReferee

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King MJ said:
are they rules about refs not being able to ref games for their home conference?
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Refs in Illinois are not bound by conferences. As a point of reference, in 14 varsity games this season, I worked 9 different conferences.

Now, you do have to declare schools that you have relationships with. For instance, if I had a child at GW, I couldn't ref one of their state games - if I put that on my no list.
 
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King MJ_rivals

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Jul 22, 2001
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stripes13 said:
Refs in Illinois are not bound by conferences. As a point of reference, in 14 varsity games this season, I worked 9 different conferences.

Now, you do have to declare schools that you have relationships with. For instance, if I had a child at GW, I couldn't ref one of their state games - if I put that on my no list.
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interesting because I remember a few refs that I consistently saw in upstate 8 games.

thanks
 
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pjjp

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Normdog said:
Lastly, this is a personal gripe, probably b/c my son is a LB, but, seriously why does it seem that with 33% the crews that the Umpire is 300+ pounds and those are the guys that are 4 yards off the ball, unable/unwilling to move. Seriously, can't they be out of the center of play? Switched out with one of the side judges?
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This is a pet peeve of mine as well. I've seen a number of games where refs are simply unable to get into the proper position to make a call, because they are morbidly obese. I know it's tough to find people willing to ref, but the lack of fitness of some is truly sad, especially when it negatively impacts their job performance.
 
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illini14

Sophomore
Jun 12, 2014
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pjjp said:
This is a pet peeve of mine as well. I've seen a number of games where refs are simply unable to get into the proper position to make a call, because they are morbidly obese. I know it's tough to find people willing to ref, but the lack of fitness of some is truly sad, especially when it negatively impacts their job performance.
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"I know it's tough to find people willing to ref"

That's the only reason they are on the field getting a check.
 
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illini14

Sophomore
Jun 12, 2014
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Shmebulock said:
Nobody is officiating HS football on Friday nights for the pay.
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Not the point of the post. The pool of officials is way to small, not enough people want to do it. There's not nearly enough competition for assignments. Go up to Rockford, they are bringing in officials from suburbs because there isn't enough up there. You'll see the same basketball official 10-15 times in a season. You shouldn't see an official on the field that can't move, can't get in to position at the Soph/Varsity level in any sport.

I'm sure its different in the Chicago metro area with more bodies.

To your post, I agree. These guys aren't getting paid much to officiate, for sure not with what they have to deal with when coaches and parents are chirping. It's not easy, referees will make mistakes, I agree.
 
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jcrewx7

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Jul 13, 2016
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I have a question. How is it that between the four of them, they cannot figure out simple math? I mean, a 15 yard penalty from the 5 yard line should be placed on the 20, correct? I seen them spot the ball on the 16, go back 2 yards and then add 4 yards. They looked like the Keystone Cops. I have seen this a number of times where the ball gets moved 2, 3, even 4 times for the same penalty. It drives me nuts.
 
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Chief321

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Penalty enforcement is not always cut and dry 5/10/15yds. Sometimes it may be from the spot of the foul vs the previous spot and maybe the guy marking the ball went from the wrong spot. Sometimes a penalty must be enforced 1/2 the distance so that changes up a the math a little as well. Sometimes the down box moves and we lose the previous spot for a second and need to correct it. Communication is not always perfect either and things need to be corrected. Cut the guys some slack, its not their full time job, they do this for 3hrs a week for 3 months a year. If they cost you an extra 20seconds of your night on correcting a penalty enforcement I dont think thats the end of the world, especially if thats what it takes to get it right.
 
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jcrewx7

Senior
Jul 13, 2016
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Chief321 said:
Penalty enforcement is not always cut and dry 5/10/15yds. Sometimes it may be from the spot of the foul vs the previous spot and maybe the guy marking the ball went from the wrong spot. Sometimes a penalty must be enforced 1/2 the distance so that changes up a the math a little as well. Sometimes the down box moves and we lose the previous spot for a second and need to correct it. Communication is not always perfect either and things need to be corrected. Cut the guys some slack, its not their full time job, they do this for 3hrs a week for 3 months a year. If they cost you an extra 20seconds of your night on correcting a penalty enforcement I dont think thats the end of the world, especially if thats what it takes to get it right.
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I'm good if they get it right but most of the time they don't. I understand spot foul, 1/2 the distance and the usual's. Been at this game a long time.Just venting because it seems to happening more and more often, like the guy calling a play from 53 yards away with two others nearby. It needs to stop is all. Have a great day, I'm done. thank you and have a great day!
 
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Normdog

Sophomore
Oct 28, 2015
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pjjp said:
This is a pet peeve of mine as well. I've seen a number of games where refs are simply unable to get into the proper position to make a call, because they are morbidly obese. I know it's tough to find people willing to ref, but the lack of fitness of some is truly sad, especially when it negatively impacts their job performance.
Click to expand...

I want to be clear. I think its tough to get officials, at least for the sheer volume of games and most of these guys are not doing it for a check b/c its not much. Obviously most of them are doing it out a love of a game and still wanting to be involved, I get it. My main point is, put the officials that might not be able to move as well either due to advancing age or waistline out on the sides and the more athletic members of the crew in the middle say at Umpire of FJ. Simple efficiency or most productive placement for their current skills.
 
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Chief321

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jcrewx7 said:
Just venting because it seems to happening more and more often, like the guy calling a play from 53 yards away with two others nearby.
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The back judge at the closest is starting 17yds from the ball and backing out right away. On a stretch play he may have the best view at a hold/low block/face mask that the guy on the line of scrimmage may not see because he has picked up the ball carrier at that point per his mechanics, and the umpire may not see because he is dodging a linebacker or has 4 linemen in his way. The back judge however may see that perfectly but at that point may be 30yds away. Get over where someone is throwing a flag from. There seems to be a common misconception with people not understanding that the closer you are to a play, the less perspective you actually have on it.
 
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jcrewx7

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Jul 13, 2016
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Chief321 said:
The back judge at the closest is starting 17yds from the ball and backing out right away. On a stretch play he may have the best view at a hold/low block/face mask that the guy on the line of scrimmage may not see because he has picked up the ball carrier at that point per his mechanics, and the umpire may not see because he is dodging a linebacker or has 4 linemen in his way. The back judge however may see that perfectly but at that point may be 30yds away. Get over where someone is throwing a flag from. There seems to be a common misconception with people not understanding that the closer you are to a play, the less perspective you actually have on it.
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OK, I said I was done but you wouldn't have it...
The play is wide left AWAY from the sticks where the Head Linesman(Ref #1) is standing(in front of the yard down marker). The other Line Judge (Ref #2)(opposite the sticks) is in position where the pile up is with 16 other 200 + pound players standing between Ref #1 and the actual play. The back judge (Ref #3 which by the way is in decent shape) makes his way into position along with the Referee (Ref #4).
2-3 seconds after the whistles, the laundry rocket flies out of Ref #1's Sansabelt (53 1/3 yards away) about 30 feet in the air. 30 seconds later he makes his way over for the 4 minute discussion which ends up being an incidental facemask.
Pwheeew...

NO response necessary!
 
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Chief321

Junior
Nov 8, 2015
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If your best example and incident that has you that frustrated is a 5yd incidental facemask, then I think we are doing a pretty solid job. Thank you for the feedback
 
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R

RetiredReferee

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jcrewx7 said:
I'm good if they get it right but most of the time they don't. I understand spot foul, 1/2 the distance and the usual's. Been at this game a long time.Just venting because it seems to happening more and more often, like the guy calling a play from 53 yards away with two others nearby. It needs to stop is all. Have a great day, I'm done. thank you and have a great day!
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It's been my experience that the referee is the last person who is making calls 53 yards away.
 
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jcrewx7

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Jul 13, 2016
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Chief321 said:
If your best example and incident that has you that frustrated is a 5yd incidental facemask, then I think we are doing a pretty solid job. Thank you for the feedback
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You just wont let it die...
Don't take it personal as I'm not trying to offend you. I used that as an example. Now go get your eyes checked!!
 
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Chief321

Junior
Nov 8, 2015
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jcrewx7 said:
You just wont let it die...
Don't take it personal as I'm not trying to offend you. I used that as an example. Now go get your eyes checked!!
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No offense taken. Discussing with people who dont know what they are talking about is part of being an official. No worries
 
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ref2

Junior
Oct 23, 2001
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Again I type

STOP COMPLAINING AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT !!!!!!

ihsa.org
officials dept
how to become an official

HELP WITH THE SHORTAGE.

After all, if you can do better we need the help.
Or are you afraid of being yelled at for $74
 
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RetiredReferee

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Not only can you help the shortage, but maybe you're good enough to stop the regional bias, and whatever people think happens in Woodstock.
 
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