You see what Eli did for Ole Miss those few years. They just screwed up not capitalizing on that...blame the AD, Cut or whomever, that is a different discussion. If we cant get our version to campus shame on us.
but thats the beauty and flexibility of the offense. You can easily adapt what you are doing to your personnel. And if we were to get in a quality throwing QB, you could easily adapt to that and throw the ball a little more. Its an offense that adapts to what personnel you HAVE, as opposed to what personnel you need. We NEED a certain type of player for the WCO, and continue to struggle to get it.
not to be a jackass, but did anyone really expect him to sign with us? LSU's offense vs. the Gulf Coast Offense. If you were supposed to be for a legitimate, big time QB with NFL hopes, would you rather play in LSU's offense or MState's cluster<17> offense? It's not really much of a choice if it was me. I'm heading to LSU and not looking back. 4 years of an offense that can't break the Top 100 is all I need to see if I'm being recruited by MState.
Goat Holder said:
I like Garrett fine...but having seen him play in person, I've sort of missed the whole stud pro-style QB thing...not terribly accurate and not exactly a cannon arm. Russell is much more mobile though he has to get bigger and stronger. While Clayton Moore has fewer offers and simply won't get as tall as the other two and likely won't have quite the same arm, I still think it's crazy not to pursue him. He has outstanding mobility and throws a very nice, catchable ball that would seem to fit VERY nicely in (shudder) the WCO. That's right, he might actually FIT the WCO.
I've liked both Russell and Moore better than Garrett all along though Garrett physically is clearly a good bit further along...and while you can augment weight and strength (to a point), you can't teach height...but this ain't the NFL. It's the SEC. I dare say that Russell and/or Moore could very well be better college QBs than Garrett and I think Moore could play somewhere very, very quickly b/c he's just so polished at what he does. Any chance that Croom recruits Moore?</p>
South Panola Dawg said:
Would you not agree that a GOOD QB could make our offense work? I would argue that, while we dont have very good offensive minds, we havent had a QB that could run our offense. If a good one came along it might work better.
</p>
You can blame these same coaches for not landing said QB, but I dont know that the offense is the main problem. How good would LSU's offense be with Omar Conner, Mike Henig, etc.
We've seen our offense produce when we mixed up our playcalling, thereby catching opponents off guard. We've also seen our offense struggle when we call the same plays in the same order over and over again. I'm still not a huge fan of running Croom's "West Coast Offense" in college but I think it could produce decently if the playcaller didn't commonly fall into a rut of predictability.
But I consider Carroll a good QB (even though his arm is weak) and the offense still sucks ***. It's more our playcalling. And Carroll got progressively worse over the course of the season with Woody "coaching him up." Bottom line, w/ LSU's overall program success, their coaching, track record of getting players to the NFL, and an offensive scheme and playcalling that isn't an entire cluster<17>, it's a pretty easy choice.
....and he did not get progressively worse. Go back and watch him in the Auburn game. Awful. Gardner Webb? Terrible. So bad that Riddell got the start next week against SC. Carroll steadily improved, peaking against Kentucky, and looking bad against Bama, OM, and UCF, while playing pretty well against Arkansas in a losing effort. WC was up and down, just like you expect a true freshman to be, but he did not get "progressively worse."
about having to go to MSU to be a fan- my dad went there, and I grew up a die-hard. I went to culinary school, not MSU, but I'm still an extremely dedicated fan, without having lived on campus or taken classes. Trust me, if I wanted to bandwagon, MSU would not have been my "ringer" in athletics.
I'm not going to defend our offense here. Our offensively ineptness may have played a small role in this. I think the biggest thing is the difference between LSU's program and ours.
Let's throw offense out of the equation by doing this: let's say Garrett grew up close to Lubbock, TX. His family were all big Texas Tech people, he grew up a Red Raider fan. He gets an offer to play QB for them and commits. Then, he receives an offer from LSU. Now, he can get a lot of attention playing QB for TT, and their offense is known for its explosiveness. But this is LSU. They'll compete for conference and national titles. Even though he loves the Red Raiders and wants to play there, this offer to LSU might be too good to pass up.
I could be totally wrong. It could be a problem with our offense. But if it was why was Garrett all excited about coming here and supposedly recruiting for us? This sounds like the guy wanted to come here but got an offer he felt like he couldn't pass up. To be fair to the guy I would probably take it as well.
Let's throw offense out of the equation by doing this: let's say Garrett grew up close to Lubbock, TX. His family were all big Texas Tech people, he grew up a Red Raider fan. He gets an offer to play QB for them and commits. Then, he receives an offer from LSU. Now, he can get a lot of attention playing QB for TT, and their offense is known for its explosiveness. But this is LSU. They'll compete for conference and national titles. Even though he loves the Red Raiders and wants to play there, this offer to LSU might be too good to pass up.
I could be totally wrong. It could be a problem with our offense. But if it was why was Garrett all excited about coming here and supposedly recruiting for us? This sounds like the guy wanted to come here but got an offer he felt like he couldn't pass up. To be fair to the guy I would probably take it as well.
coordinator and stuck with his idiot friend. This is what happens. But hey, let's bask in the glory of our Liberty Bowl title and not worry about losing our top QB prospect in years, maybe ever.
I've already defeated him with that argument. He won't respond to you, either. When somebody proves him wrong, he just posts in/starts another thread saying the same stuff as before.
but point remains. He wasn't very good at all in our last 3 games. I give him the benefit of the doubt because he was a freshman, but expect him to be better this season. And if his arm strength doesn't improve, defenses will squat on the underneath routes and make him look bad like Bama, OM, and UCF did. Also, he had to tell 17ing Croom and Woody to run option so we could score to win the Liberty Bowl. He's definitely got it upstairs, but the consistency has to come. I just have no faith in Croom, Woody, & Co. to develop him into a consistently good QB. Hell, they thought Money Mike was the answer at QB.
Must have skipped right over it. I guess the Texas Tech argument is a pretty easy one to see and make.
....well, almost everybody.
In reality, when you compare LSU to MSU, they win in almost every factor. Closeness to home and MSU ties have to outweigh alot, and in this case, they didn't.
In reality, when you compare LSU to MSU, they win in almost every factor. Closeness to home and MSU ties have to outweigh alot, and in this case, they didn't.
Irondawg said:
</p>
I disagree with that somewhat, because especially in football, a lot has to do with your supporting cast. If you're a great QB and you get no blocking, you won't be able to show much of your ability, which will hurt your draft status. Not saying Fant was a great QB, but he could've been much better if he had had more than 2 seconds to get rid of the ball, and had he been able to run a pass play or two without ending up on his back.
And especially if you're a WR, you really need to be somewhere that throws the ball and has a decent QB to be able to stand out more. Marcus Monk is a great WR, but his draft status was probably hurt at least a little bit by the fact that he had to play in an offense with a bad QB that didn't get him the ball a whole lot.
I think more than anything as a QB you need to be somewhere where you can get playing time. Blake Barnes is another good example, as well as Joe Cox. Both were thought of as the same caliber as people think of Garrett, and both have been playing behind Matt Stafford with no chance to show their abilities. Had they gone elsewhere, they might have had a chance to shine. Same thing goes for Jevan Snead for us. He had to transfer because playing behind McCoy at Texas wasn't going to do him any good. It's better for him to be at Ole Miss, with a lesser supporting cast, where he can actually play, than to be at Texas playing behind another stud.
All that said, MSU is not really in a position where any of those things should be a black mark. The offense hasn't been great, but the supporting cast of your offense is good enough that a very good QB should be able to come in and shine, unlike your teams under Fant. No one would have been able to have much success behind that O-line. And as far as playing time is concerned, there isn't anyone on MSU's roster or anyone that you're recruiting that he couldn't beat out.
dawgball said:
i went to high school with dickson and he said freddie kitchens told him he needed to check his morals when dickson mentioned lsu. not exactly what i would call great recruiting. however, we didn't really stand a chance with him in the first place.</p>
If he had grown up a TTech fan, and is a QB, with their QB-friendly offense, goes to TTech. I'm not denying the attraction of LSU, cause its there and it is real. But growing up a Tech fan and getting a chance to lead that excitement he grew up watching would probably overshadow that. Not to mention he would get ample opportunity to show that he can be a pro QB.
Coming to MSU to hand off constantly doesnt excite anybody with aspirations of going to the NFL. We are signing guys that are just happy to play in an SEC program, they dont give a **** what offense we run.
Coming to MSU to hand off constantly doesnt excite anybody with aspirations of going to the NFL. We are signing guys that are just happy to play in an SEC program, they dont give a **** what offense we run.
i've been a state fan since before i even knew it, and there's no way i would go to state as a QB. with the state of the offense, it's a stupid move. i don't know this kid, but i'm sure when he found out that mccorvey was staying, the decision was easy. croom screwed himself.
I said I wondered if one could, basically posing the question. So we're not in disagreement. And I guess what I'm wondering is if a "fan" can truly feel the loyalty of an alum or student. I know there are sidewalk alum and children of alum who are sincere and even die hard fans of college teams, I just think, particularly with MSU, that most aren't on the same level as those who spent their college years there. For instance, I followed my parents, two older siblings, grandparents, and several aunts and uncles on both sides to State. I always pulled for State and never considered going to college elsewhere, but I wasn't really emotionally invested like I became as a student. What I'm saying is that nobody as loyal as I am would decline the opportunity to play for State and opt for another school. And if loyalty can be fully imputed to family members, one would think it would certainly be imputed to Chris Garrett.
I just don't know about that. Where does winning championships rank with this guy? Some players will go wherever gives them the best chance to win big. Where does exposure rank with this guy? Being on CBS every weekend when LSU is in the SEC driver's seat gets you a ton of exposure. We don't know, but this guy sounded excited about coming to State until LSU got in the mix. He didn't sound like a "wait for a better offer" type. You don't recruit players to your school if you are simply biding yoru time until a better school comes calling. Again, I'm not defending our offense here, I just don't believe our ineptness is what made this guy choose LSU over us.
I'm going to reply to several responses in general:
First of all, let's not go all Arkansas on Croom here. Yes, it's disapointing to lose Garrett and he's a good prospect, BUT he's still a high school kid. He could be a major flop, or he could be the next Joe Montana- we don't know right now, and if he turns out to be Montana, then we can ***** about it, but playing against Alabama is a lot different than playing against Grenada High.
Second of all, it looks to me that Garrett was expected to be given a job. That's the last thing we need, and it actually goes against what Croom is all about. Garrett didn't want to compete with Russell- regardless of whether he could beat him out or not. Now, yes, he might turn out better, but we won't know.
Thirdly, if he doesn't want to be at MSU, both of us are better off in the long run. If he's not going to be happy, he's not going to play well for us, and that hurts us.
Fourthly- he fits our offense better than any spread offense- especially if he's so immobile. If we tried to make our offense a passing spread option, it would be as retarded as ever, if not more so. There's a reason why guys like Pat White and Tim Tebow run those offenses. Going to a run and shoot type spread makes much more sense than that.
Fifthly, I doubt he would beat out Carroll who will be a junior when Garrett will be a true Fr. He can possibly go to LSU and play right away. He probably is good enough to beat out the bastard and the guy from Harvard. Perriloux could end up in the pen at any moment, and I bet Les Miles is tired of his antics to.
Sixthly, if his friends are there, I can understand that as well.
Seventhly, if he thinks LSU can get him to the NFL, more power to him. All I see is JaMarcus Russell, who's about to eat himself out of Oakland. I will say that's better than the zero we have, but it's not like they're churning them out there either. Personally, I would go to USC if I was going for the League.
First of all, let's not go all Arkansas on Croom here. Yes, it's disapointing to lose Garrett and he's a good prospect, BUT he's still a high school kid. He could be a major flop, or he could be the next Joe Montana- we don't know right now, and if he turns out to be Montana, then we can ***** about it, but playing against Alabama is a lot different than playing against Grenada High.
Second of all, it looks to me that Garrett was expected to be given a job. That's the last thing we need, and it actually goes against what Croom is all about. Garrett didn't want to compete with Russell- regardless of whether he could beat him out or not. Now, yes, he might turn out better, but we won't know.
Thirdly, if he doesn't want to be at MSU, both of us are better off in the long run. If he's not going to be happy, he's not going to play well for us, and that hurts us.
Fourthly- he fits our offense better than any spread offense- especially if he's so immobile. If we tried to make our offense a passing spread option, it would be as retarded as ever, if not more so. There's a reason why guys like Pat White and Tim Tebow run those offenses. Going to a run and shoot type spread makes much more sense than that.
Fifthly, I doubt he would beat out Carroll who will be a junior when Garrett will be a true Fr. He can possibly go to LSU and play right away. He probably is good enough to beat out the bastard and the guy from Harvard. Perriloux could end up in the pen at any moment, and I bet Les Miles is tired of his antics to.
Sixthly, if his friends are there, I can understand that as well.
Seventhly, if he thinks LSU can get him to the NFL, more power to him. All I see is JaMarcus Russell, who's about to eat himself out of Oakland. I will say that's better than the zero we have, but it's not like they're churning them out there either. Personally, I would go to USC if I was going for the League.
<span style="font-weight: bold;">If he had grown up a TTech fan, and is a QB, with their QB-friendly offense, goes to TTech. I'm not denying the attraction of LSU, cause its there and it is real. But growing up a Tech fan and getting a chance to lead that excitement he grew up watching would probably overshadow that. Not to mention he would get ample opportunity to show that he can be a pro QB</span>.
If he had grown up a Tech fan, and Texas offered him a scholarship, I would say that there is a greater than 50% chance he would take it. It all comes down to whether or not his love for the school he grew up rooting for outweighs his desire to win championships. For CG, it apparently didn't.
If he had grown up a Tech fan, and Texas offered him a scholarship, I would say that there is a greater than 50% chance he would take it. It all comes down to whether or not his love for the school he grew up rooting for outweighs his desire to win championships. For CG, it apparently didn't.
in my lifetime, I think LSU has had 2 quarterbacks get drafted into the NFL, and I'm not 100 percent sure it's two, Tommy Hodson anyone? Plenty of other positions, but QB isn't LSU's strong suit. And their offense does require a little mobility, even Flynn could run a bit.
is probably Bert Jones, but that was way back in the day. I that Matt Mauck got a look, but I don't think it was a very serous look.
Hodson, as you know was a major flop.
Hodson, as you know was a major flop.
As much as I would like to see Chris join the Miss. St. program, I can't blame him for this decision. If that is what he wants to do then so be it. I'm sure Croom went after him hard but after seeing LSU's facilities he had a change of heart. I think Carroll and Tyson Lee are good but not great QBs. We have to change our offense up to be effective no matter who the QB is. </p>
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