Why have him on the team if he gets no minutes? He can't be any worse than what we have on the court.
Glad to see DeRunnya warming the bench..........
- Thread starter Fighting Irish.sixpack
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In my opinion, DeRunnya stepping onto the court for meaningful, productive, significant minutes has always been about as likely as Marlon Humphrey signing with us, no matter what you read here about his elite basketball skills.
He's been with the team for what, 4 games?! And he's a freshman? I don't know how you expect him to be a major contributor at this point, despite or limited depth. Just not realistic, if I was a cynic I'd say that this is complaining just for the sake of complaining.
Exactly. It would be damn near impossible to get him ready to give productive minutes this year. True freshman who didn't even set foot on the court until the beginning of SEC play. There's just no time to spend on getting a completely new player up to speed.
Yep. I don't think some people realize how much of a jump it is from high school basketball in any division to the SEC. Wilson is a 6'4 post player and not particularly thick on top of that. You can be that and dominate in high school basketball at any level if you have the talent. But it just doesn't fly in major college basketball.
He's been with the team for what, 4 games?! And he's a freshman? I don't know how you expect him to be a major contributor at this point, despite or limited depth. Just not realistic, if I was a cynic I'd say that this is complaining just for the sake of complaining.
I'm not sure how you read my post as complaining. I pretty clearly say, I thought, that I had no expectations of anything from him.
If Bear was the type of player who could come in after the start of conference play as a freshman and contribute significant minutes, he would not be playing football first.
You have to admit, it says something that you had to go back 20 years and name a Heisman trophy winner who was a freak athlete that could have played any of the three major sports.
I think Bear has looked somewhat lost in his short appearances thus far. My exact thought was "He looks a legit 6-6, but he should stick to football." I think at best he's Roquez Johnson and at worst he's a less athletic Bernard Rimmer.
I know Charlie is a lot better player than Wilson.
I think Wilson can be a somewhat effective player if we play a full court press on defense and a fast break offense. In a half court game, Wilson will struggle
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I'm a Ray fan, and I'm not bitching about not being a tournament team... So don't give me ****.
But Ray not letting Steele redshirt and him not playing Wilson and acting like he didn't knew he was going to play bball (even if that's true) pisses me off. This is a dump-off season and no one is trying to act like we expected him to do anything this year. Wilson is a 6'6" post player, a useless position really, but we're throwing a 6'3"ish walk-on and telling him to play PF sometimes so would it hurt to give Wilson PT? Would it have been better to let Steele redshirt to have him next season when we have a whole deck of cards? I understand the argument, but Steele earned the redshirt. He was a model student (I went to class with this guy so don't tell me he got suspended for not going to class, that was BS too) and the only guy who decided he'd go with the flow with a new coach.
For the most part I appreciate Ray, but it just seems like he's cutting off his own nose to spite his face sometimes. Over half of our fans want him fired already. At what point do you just let the fans have what they want? Dual sport athletes COULD be his saving grace (a guy will sign with us this week JUST because he "can" play basketball for us) but he seems like he doesn't give a ****.
But Ray not letting Steele redshirt and him not playing Wilson and acting like he didn't knew he was going to play bball (even if that's true) pisses me off. This is a dump-off season and no one is trying to act like we expected him to do anything this year. Wilson is a 6'6" post player, a useless position really, but we're throwing a 6'3"ish walk-on and telling him to play PF sometimes so would it hurt to give Wilson PT? Would it have been better to let Steele redshirt to have him next season when we have a whole deck of cards? I understand the argument, but Steele earned the redshirt. He was a model student (I went to class with this guy so don't tell me he got suspended for not going to class, that was BS too) and the only guy who decided he'd go with the flow with a new coach.
For the most part I appreciate Ray, but it just seems like he's cutting off his own nose to spite his face sometimes. Over half of our fans want him fired already. At what point do you just let the fans have what they want? Dual sport athletes COULD be his saving grace (a guy will sign with us this week JUST because he "can" play basketball for us) but he seems like he doesn't give a ****.
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Looks like most responders just skimmed over this part. IF he stays with playing basketball while he is here he might become a solid role player. But I have to agree that the likelyhood of him being another Charlie Ward are very, very, very slim. College football and basketball both require a lot of development and anyone who could be a star in both at the college level would be very special indeed.
Model students don't get suspended, particularly when you are the team's most experienced "leader."
Over half want him fired??? I'm gonna need some kind of evidence that this is the case.
Over half want him fired??? I'm gonna need some kind of evidence that this is the case.
Steele was set on never playing for State again. His plan was to redshirt this year, graduate and then transfer to Troy next year and play for Cunningham. He put Ray in an impossible situation and then turned it around on Ray when Ray called his bluff. I'm not positive if that was Wendell's plan also, but I have heard that as well.
Think what you want. He wasn't one of these guys that takes the easy way out getting a degree that isn't worth the paper it's printed on. He was working on a solid degree because his mother who has a LEGIT job influenced him to get that degree and do well with it. Of the 3 or 4 classes I had with Steele he was at EACH class and actually made a point to be involved in the discussion. Word on the street from friends in class with him during the semester he got suspended those ~3 games was he missed class 2 times. Again, I'm pumped that Ray is being a disciplinarian and booting 17 ups but that was easily the biggest case of big dick syndrome I've ever witnessed. Steele is/was a model citizen during his tenure at State. Think what you want, he was one of my classmates so I saw it firsthand.
And the comment about 1/2 of fans wanting him fired was a hyperbole. They teach you about these in 5th grade.
And he wanted to redshirt a year so he could play on a team with a chance. Not only did he deserve that, he was also coming off an injury. It wasn't a stretch. It wasn't an impossible request. You sound like one of the folks that think George Bush planted bombs under the trade center saying that it was Wendell's plan to test positive for weed for the 100th time too. He got kicked off the team, but it just so happens a former asst coach is now a HC for a team that he could play on. Quit trying to make into something else.
There's no downside to playing Wilson. We just lost to Vanderbilt. We also got blown out by Alabama. They're 2 of the worst teams in the conference this year. Wilson obviously isn't going to do anything one the bball court but Staley might. A 2015 guy might. A 2016 guy might. As long as they redshirt we won't have the problem of them looking lost because they'll actually get to practice first. Just play the 17ers. Why does it matter? We're not going to be pissed when we lost to Auburn because Wilson was playing.
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They also teach you to use hyperbole in an easily identifiable way, so work on that. And my bad on the suspension. Obviously with "word on the street from friends who were in class with him," you were right up in the middle of the situation. Even given your fourth hand information, I'll maintain a healthy skepticism that your version is accurate.
Do what? Why in the world would we pay for a year of the kids school and have him practice with us knowing that he was going to stab us in the back and leave for another school after the year? Because his plan was drink tell to leave. Just because you had classes with him doesn't mean you know what was going on. And like I said, I don't know exactly why Wendell was kicked off, so don't act like I'm trying to bunch the two together. I just posted what I heard about him.
Why should Ray have let Steele redshirt when the doctors said he was ready for THIS season? Especially when we need that scholarship for a recruit next year. I'm glad that Steele is one of the relatively few who take their academics and degree seriously. I just wish he would have taken his basketball as seriously. We needed him last year and he got himself suspended. We need him this year and he bailed on us.
Wilson was a 6'5" 215 LB power forward in high school. His best stat was rebounding. He can't play small forward. He's not a college player.
Turner played the 4 for us.
Dizzy...or Sleepy(depending on who you ask) played some 4 for us.
Those guys were way smaller.
Turner played in a four guard lineup, and even then, it was hardly ideal. We played 2-3 zone and had a shot blocker. If we happen to start playing that way, Wilson might be a good choice.
If Dietric Slater ever played in that role, it was very very little. He'd have had to play over Charles Rhodes.
If Dietric Slater ever played in that role, it was very very little. He'd have had to play over Charles Rhodes.
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Next time I use a hyperbole I'll make sure I don't try to use it with an easily measurable statistic, such as amount of a school's fan base that wants a coach fired.
And that's not 4th, that's 3rd. 2nd if you consider that it's my direct friends telling me that he missed class twice and was shortly thereafter suspended, 3rd if you consider that he was suspended for an unspecified reason clarified on this very board as him missing class.
Quit while you're ahead.
We're paying for him to go to MSU as it is. He's getting all of his expenses paid in 2013-2014 (just in case you don't know what that means, this current semester he's getting a full ride and all access to go to any tutor he needs... if he fails it counts against us). It's what he wanted in the first place. The only thing he wanted that Ray said no to was he do exactly what he's doing RIGHT THIS SECOND but play for us in 2014-2015 when we have more than 8 scholarship players and have a legitimate shot at the NIT. It's entirely speculative that he's going to Troy, which I'm agreeing with, but that's entirely based on the fact that we had an assistant he knows really well that went to Troy recently to become a coach. I'm sure if he had his choice he'd play for MSU in 2014-15 based entirely on the fact that Troy is garbage. Hypothetically he could turn up at Tennessee Tech or really anywhere and I wouldn't be surprise if he does. He'll be eligible for any D1 program outside of the SEC.
Whoever told you that Wendell WANTED to go to Troy and tried to get suspended is full of ****, and you should quit listening to anything he tells you. Who the 17 tests positive knowing that they will get kicked off the team making them eligible to transfer, especially when a longtime teammate, according to you, strongarmed a coach to do the same without putting their eligibility at jeopardy?
I'm not claiming to be 100% in the know just because I'm roughly the same age as these people and have seen them in class before. One of my good friends went to the same high school, their mothers worked together, and they rode home together to Tennessee. He showed up 1/2 the parties I was ever at. I'll admit even then and even though I knew this guy still through my classes I don't know the guy well enough to know if he was devising a plan to deceive the school or try to skip class without getting punished. I don't know if Wendell was trying to smoke pot with the ultimate plan of failing a drug test the 3rd time so that he'd be kicked off the team. Listen to what you're saying though. Cunningham is just a happy circumstance.
And yes, Steele was everything I hope our student-athletes become. Model citizens. Ray suspending him was 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% him pulling his dick out and strong arming a guy who hadn't always played for him. And I'm not a Stansbury guy, so don't give me **** there. I 17ing hated that guy. I've had classes with dozens of athletes in every sport, women's basketball, men's tennis, men's basketball, football (scholarship and walk-on), and women's softball. I've had group projects with most of the guys I'm referring to who are still on their rosters. Steele gave a ****. Twanny Beckham gave the least *****, but that's obviously not a story.
I saw with my own two eyes every single starter from last year show up to a party and stay until ~2 am and drink alcohol the night before we lost to A&M LATE IN THE SECOND HALF. I don't think we need to play moral police about Steele actually graduating with a good GPA and missing 2 classes. Especially if we're in fact giving him a scholarship this season anyway. We're ultimately doing what he asked, and I'm sure he'd rather stay at State to play a 5th year if it was his choice.
ETA: On the parties thing, what motive do I have to lie to you? Entirely based on the enebatable and you giving me **** on that and the fact that I'm going to pass out due to the Super Bowl party I went to I'm laying it out now. Think I'll gain internet cool for lying about attending a party that Borchert got a BJ from a Phi Mu (poor girl) and the rest of the guys played beer pong and lost and continued to steal everyone's beer? That happened, and we kicked A&M's *** until the 4th... I don't know why we ran out of steam... I'm a Ray fan, but I'm not going to lie about the roster mismanagement. I can handle everything except the Steel and Wilson situation. Everyone else deserved to eat pavement.
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And I'm telling you what I know. Steele had 0 intentions to play for MSU next year. None. He was using the redshirt so he could transfer out after this year once he graduated. Ray would be an idiot to let someone like that stay on the team. And as you said, we are still paying for his school, so how are we screwing him over? I have never said anything negative about Steele as a person. I've met Jalen, and he was a nice, quiet guy. In the end, he was trying to do what he felt was best for him. Doesn't make him a bad person, bad student, or bad player, it just makes him a person that Ray was correct for kicking off the team. However, if we had Steele this year (which was definitely possible had he not been being selfish), we very much could have been an NIT-caliber team. The main thing this team misses is a deep threat, that's what he provided. The whole situation is on Steele's hands, not Ray's.
As for Wendell, I have said multiple times that what I heard was not a for sure fact. Like you say, the info may be wrong. Congrats on being right. Is that what you want to hear?
As for Wendell, I have said multiple times that what I heard was not a for sure fact. Like you say, the info may be wrong. Congrats on being right. Is that what you want to hear?
That is a very broad and uneducated response. First Wilson is 6'6 and I would bet has gained a few pounds of muscle since high school. He was Mr. Alabama in basketball for a reason. He must be pretty good at basketball. To say he is not a college player after playing 2 games is just ridiculous. There is not one set height/weight for each position on the floor. One of our main weaknesses is rebounding, Wilson is a rebounder that is very athletic. Not every player on the court has to be a scorer, either. Brandon Vincent comes to mind. Great role player for us that wasn't a scorer. Wilson may turn out being very good, or this may be his only year of basketball for us and it may be pedestrian, but to classify him as "not a college player" at this point, is dumb.
If it's easily measurable, where's the data? It sounds to me like a number you pulled out of the air. Is this more hyperbole?
Ray told Jalen the reason for the suspension (1), Jalen told your friends his version of that (2), your friends told you their version of what he said (3), you posted your version here (4). But third hand is nearly as reliable as fourth hand, so it's all good.
Sorry but you have no clue what the facts are, and yes I do. First Steele was 100% cleared to play, not to mention that he had been working out and without question ready to play. Steele didn't want to, as you say he did want to redshirt. Coach Ray said they needed him this year as did his team mates, Steele balked said he didn't want to play, that he was "tired" and needed a rest. So when Coach Ray said that was unacceptable Steele walked out. Then proceeded to have his mother and uncle call bitching to Coach Ray that he was "ruining Jalens pro career" not letting him redshirt. Steele had been suspended several times because of attitude and also didn't like being disciplined which was contrary to Coach Stansbury's style so he tried to push a coach around and got called on it. Now I do I know this , I just happen to be friends with one of the assistants. Believe it or not but that's the truth. Concerning Wendell he failed numerous drug tests thus dismissed from the team.
Is this basketball or Rashomon (or, since, this is based in Mississippi - The Sound and the Fury) with all these different stories and perspectives and crud. Occam's Razor, y'all.
I hope I'm wrong. I'f he's substantially bigger than his football profile, maybe he has a chance.
My point is that he may not be some towering load in the paint, but that doesnt mean he cant play basketball.
Its not like this is a football player who just wants to try something different- its a guy who was voted Mr Alabama in basketball.
Why the 17 couldnt he learn to be a big 3? He is clearly athletic.
What- he cant shoot from outside(not that you would know either way)- well our entire team sucks at this.
Lemme know why, if he focused on developing as a college basketball player, he couldnt be as good as or better than most of who we are currently putting on the floor.
Its not like this is a football player who just wants to try something different- its a guy who was voted Mr Alabama in basketball.
Why the 17 couldnt he learn to be a big 3? He is clearly athletic.
What- he cant shoot from outside(not that you would know either way)- well our entire team sucks at this.
Lemme know why, if he focused on developing as a college basketball player, he couldnt be as good as or better than most of who we are currently putting on the floor.
Donnavan McNabb. Wasn't as good as Charlie Ward at basketball, but I think he was pretty good. I think Duke's old point guard had a decent year of football when he transferred to Syracuse, but not positive. Have no clue if he was any good at basketball, but I think Michael Vick was a big time baseball prospect. Same with Chad Johnson. Ronald Curry was a guy signed by UNC that was basically the highest rated basketball and football recruit one year, adn basically was mediocre at both in college.