Go Grizz. Here's to taking the series tonight.
- Thread starter drt7891
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Awesome first half
Just can't let up at all in the second half. You know OKC isn't going down without a fight
Just can't let up at all in the second half. You know OKC isn't going down without a fight
Yeah, just like it was Clippers in 5, then Thunder in 5 before those series started.
I don't recall ever thinking they'd beat the Thunder, much less in 5 games... Oh well.
Would have been a different series if Westbrook wasn't out. Spurs will be favored in the West, but it should be a close series.
Disagree strongly. Maybe they eek out one more win but the Grizzlies were going to win this series regardless.
Just a few weeks ago OKC fans were ready to run Westbrook out of town. Too many unforced turnovers, too many careless mistakes, too many emotional outbursts, too many poor shots. There's a lot of revisionist history going on to be calling him a top-ten NBA player. I'm not sure he's even in the top ten point guards.
Edit to add: Before I get jumped on, I'm not saying he's a bad player. He's a great player. But I do think he disrupts OKC's offensive flow too much, and he was everyone's favorite whipping boy for a while. It's funny how all of a sudden he was the missing link. I wish he was healthy, because the Grizz would've exploited him, like they did two out of three games during the regular season.
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I agree. The Grizzlies handled them in the regular season with Westbrook. He is his own worst enemy especially against a good defensive team. For all the positive things he has the ability to do on the court, he shoots himself in the foot with bad decisions and forcing the ball.
They took them to seven games in 2011 with Westbrook Durant and Hardin with a team that is not as good as this years Grizzlies team.
And Michael Wilbon can take Westbrooks cock out of his mouth at anytime now.
They took them to seven games in 2011 with Westbrook Durant and Hardin with a team that is not as good as this years Grizzlies team.
And Michael Wilbon can take Westbrooks cock out of his mouth at anytime now.
Name 10 PGs better than Westbrook. He is one of the fastest players in the NBA. He is one of the best finishers on the fast break. He consistently goes 1 on 2 or even 1 on 3 and is able to finish. Not just finish, but often times finish with a dunk.
OKC was limited on offense with Westbrook out. You know what Westbrook brings?...offense. OKC was also limited because Durant had to take on too much of the scoring and play initiation burden. You know what Westbrook brings?...playmaking. He averaged 7.5 assists per game. He took that responsibility off Durant's plate. He made defenses focus on him, which meant they couldnt exclusively focus on Durant. Westbrook makes Durant better.
The Grizz are good this year, absolutely. And OKC was a consistently better team throughout the season with Westbrook playing. I doubt Westbrook playing would have made it 4-0 or 4-1 in favor of OKC, but it most likely would have been a lot closer than it was. Maybe 4-3 in favor of either team.
Westbrook is simply too quick, too good at finishing in traffic, too good at converting from the line, too good at setting teammates up, too good at taking pressure off teammates to dismiss him and say he isnt even in the top 10 for PGs.
Google PG rankings- he is consistently in the top 5. Yes yes yes, its all opinion. But at some point, when ESPN, CNNSI, BleacherReport, USAToday, etc all declare him to be a top5 PG...maybe he is.
Well guess what, it doesn't matter because the Grizzlies did win this series without Westbrook so it doesn't matter to turn around and play the what if game. Like Barkley said "They are going to the finals."
I didn't say he wasn't top ten, I said I'm not sure that he is. First of all, he isn't even a true point guard. He's a scorer who brings the ball up. Good point guards are facilitators who look to get the ball in the hands of the right player in the right spot on the court, and can create a shot for themselves when the offense breaks down. I will give you that Westbrook can create his own shot, but he doesn't do any of those other things very well. OKC doesn't really run a structured offense, and you saw evidence of that in this series. They just rely on Westbrook and Durant to make individual plays or find spot up shooters when defenses collapse. He's more a product of their system than he is a true point guard. I would even go as far to say that he would struggle in a system like Memphis or San Antonio runs because I don't think he can shoulder the pressure of running the sophisticated offensive sets that those teams run.
Westbrook is a superior athlete, but he is very streaky and prone to significant lapses in judgment. I put Rose, Paul, Parker, Williams, and even Conley above him as point guards. There is more to playing the position than being fast and scoring the ball. How many turnovers does he have compared to those others? How many forced shots? His act was wearing thin on a lot of OKC supporters until the injury, and now he's the best thing since sliced bread. It's revisionist history at its best. I'm not saying he is a bad player; he is clearly very good. But I don't think his health would've put them over the top. The Grizzlies have been pretty good against the Thunder over the past three seasons with him (and Harden) in the lineup.
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One more thing: The Thunder weren't "consistently better" than the Grizzlies this year. They were four wins better over the course of an 82 game season and they were 1-2 against the Grizzlies head to head. If you recall, the Grizzlies traded their leading scorer mid-season and had to mesh a whole new lineup, starters and bench, on the fly. With all of that, the difference between the two was four games. And that was with Westbrook playing all year. If you look only post-trade performance, once everyone learned the offense and how they fit in it, the Grizzlies were the consistently better team. They had the second longest winning streak in the league, and they've only lost one game on their home court since the all star break.
You didn't say he isnt top ten, you just aren't sure if he is. Ah, got it. Huge difference.
This isn't tough, just think about PGs in the league and see if he makes the top10.
Oh wait, you did think about PGs in the league and it looks like you think he is 6th(and you include a guy who didn't even play this season). Super, glad you we're able to work that out. Everyone I've seen who is paid to write about basketball disagrees with your list, but cool, you were at least able to make a decision.
You say there is more to playing PG than scoring and being fast. Yep, I agree. He also averaged 7.4 assists and 5.2 rebounds per game. Add to that 1.8 steals per game. He did turn the ball over 3.3 times per game.
So his net ATOS/game was a +6.9
Compare that to Conley, who has developed into a solid PG. 6.1 assists, 2.8 rebounds, 2.2 steals, and 2.4 turnovers.
That's a net ATOS/game of....+5.9
Westbrook gives you 8.5 more points per game, 1.3 more assists per game, and 2.4 more rebounds per game. They had the same FG%. Conley gives you .4 more steals and .5 less turnovers.
Oh, and they played the same number of minutes.
You are seriously claiming Conley is better? He turns the ball over half a time less per game and get half a more steal per game. And at the same time scores WAY less, rebounds a lot less, and assists less.
Its just one of those times where the numbers, both basic and advanced, dont add up. Fanspeak has taken hold of ya.
The issue here, besides the obvious fan bias, is that you operate under an archaic and limited definition of what a PG is. Why can't a PG score? Why is penetrating and dumping it off or kicking it out after the defense has collapsed not an acceptable play for you? You say he is a product of the system, yet the system doesn't exist without him. Their system is based on his(and Durant) unique talents.
You knock him for not setting his teammates up, yet he does it more per game than Conley. You harp on his wild shots, yet his FG% is the same as Conley's.
You pull out the term 'revisionist history', yet stats don't seem to back your statements up.
I completely agree that the Grizz have played them well in recent seasons. And I am not at all saying OKC would have won with Westbrook. In fact, I said I could see it going either way. But I do know that OKC managed to play the Grizz absurdly close and lost very tight games this past series, and that's without their back to back AllNBa 2nd team PG playing.
Good discussion, I look forward to you claiming Conley's stats are better than Westbrook's and continuing to argue that Westbrook doesn't set his teammates up and shoots wildly, even though his assists are higher than Conley, his FG% is the same.
By 'consistently better' I mean that they consistently won more than the Grizz and lost less. That's accurate.
The Grizz were, as I said, a solid team this season. And yeah, they played OKC great during the regular season.
Not sure why I would look only at the post trade record though. That's just arbitrary. Why not the whole season? After all, OKC had to learn how to play without Harden. Remember, they changed him out right before the start of the season. They had to learn how to play without one of the most dynamic scores in the league. Yes, let's take the whole season because of that trade, instead of the Feb Gay trade. There ya go, offsetting trades.
The Grizz were, as I said, a solid team this season. And yeah, they played OKC great during the regular season.
Not sure why I would look only at the post trade record though. That's just arbitrary. Why not the whole season? After all, OKC had to learn how to play without Harden. Remember, they changed him out right before the start of the season. They had to learn how to play without one of the most dynamic scores in the league. Yes, let's take the whole season because of that trade, instead of the Feb Gay trade. There ya go, offsetting trades.
Sometimes the bottom line is the bottom line--follow the money. Before the Westbrook injury, Vegas favored the Thunder; afterwards, the Grizz was favored. The Grizzlies didn't win a single game by more than 6 points, so though the series was lopsided at 4-1, the games were very close. I think it would be hard to argue that having one of the best PGs in the game wouldn't have been good for 4-6 points extra points. Vegas thought so, anyway.
This was a huge blinking light and if you like to make money betting NBA Playoffs like me, you know the Grizzles are on a 10-0 ATS run.
This current ATS march has Memphis flirting with some of the most profitable playoff teams in the past 22 years. The 2008-09 Denver Nuggets opened the postseason with 12 straight ATS wins before going 1-3 ATS in their final four games and getting eliminated by the Los Angeles Lakers in the Western Conference finals.
This is stupid. OKC went through a training camp and an exhibition without Harden. They replaced him with another scorer, Kevin Martin. That is not the same thing as pulling out your leading scorer and a central piece of your offense mid-season. Also, you just lost Harden. The Grizzlies traded several key pieces, including Wayne Ellington and Marreese Speights. Hardly equitable. They played and lost to the Thunder the day after the Gay trade with only seven players on the bench. They subsequently lost three more until they figured out how to rework their offense and rotation patterns. OKC didn't go through any kind of adversity like that. And through it all, a four game difference, plus a winning record head to head for the Grizzlies.