Great Thomas Jefferson quote about whether to believe in God.
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Here is another good Jefferon quote (I'm reading a biography of Jefferson, as you may have guessed). The quote starts off with "I am not a Federalist..." but Federalist isn't the point but rather in intent it means "I am not a member of the group called Federalists..." Here's the quote:
"I am not a Federalist, because I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all."
In modern English that means, basically, "I don't belong to Group X because I could never bring myself to pick a group and then believe everything the group believes since I'd rather just think for myself. It's degrading to give your freedom and moral agency over to the whims of a group. If the only way I could go to heaven was by blindly going along with the group then I'd rather not go."
Or, more concisely and using 1984 terminology, "Groupthink is not for me." Nice. Me neither.
After the British were beaten and the new USA was figuring out what the government would be like there was some sentiment for some form of monarchy or aristocracy rule and Jefferson was against it at every step. Being in favor of only white, male property owners getting to rule as Jefferson was sounds pretty backwards until you consider that the opposition was in favor of only white, male property owners that were offspring of those white, male property owners that had already been ruling.
Once you make the move from "heredity-based" to "merit-based" you've started down a path from which there is no return.
"I am not a Federalist, because I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all."
In modern English that means, basically, "I don't belong to Group X because I could never bring myself to pick a group and then believe everything the group believes since I'd rather just think for myself. It's degrading to give your freedom and moral agency over to the whims of a group. If the only way I could go to heaven was by blindly going along with the group then I'd rather not go."
Or, more concisely and using 1984 terminology, "Groupthink is not for me." Nice. Me neither.
After the British were beaten and the new USA was figuring out what the government would be like there was some sentiment for some form of monarchy or aristocracy rule and Jefferson was against it at every step. Being in favor of only white, male property owners getting to rule as Jefferson was sounds pretty backwards until you consider that the opposition was in favor of only white, male property owners that were offspring of those white, male property owners that had already been ruling.
Once you make the move from "heredity-based" to "merit-based" you've started down a path from which there is no return.
Off subject question Doc. Are you from California or just live there now?
No one in this thread has said the universe just appeared out of nothingness. I believe most agnostics are skeptical and are waiting for science to come up with a plausible theory on the creation of the universe, the Big Bang being one of those theories but has a few minor flaws.
If you want to follow your train of thought, that something cannot be created out of nothingness, where did God come from?
Wow, talking about taking a side track. My post wasn't meant to question the existence of God at all although I guess the first post in this thread may lead people to believe that's the point.
The larger point was that people should think for themselves. One way that would improve things today is our political discourse where people pick a side and agree with everything their side says and disagrees with everything the other side says. Make up your own mind on each issue and if now and then that means you agree on an issue of the opposing party then so be it.
I don't know if a singularity is nothingness or not but I do know that at the quantum level, particles pop in and out of existence all the time so things popping into and out of existence is not unheard of. We live at our scale and time and thus the reality we see and deal with looks like it's set in stone but through the very hard work of very smart people we've found that counterintuitive things can happen, such as time moving at a different rate for people moving at two different velocities or for space to be warped.
He's from Richwood and lives around Oak Ridge, TN. Why he has Santa Cruz on there, I don't know. Perhaps he's just a big fan of the Banana Slugs.
Yes. I graduated high school with his wife. I know their whole family very well. Good people.
Once when JFK was POTUS he had some kind of function in the WH where a bunch of Nobel Prize winners were present and he said something like "This is the most intelligence we've ever had in one room in the White House except for when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."
Richwood is a unique place. Lot's of Italians. They are fun people-good food and drink. I played a lot of basketball with his brother. Played golf with his dad.He's told me so many stories. You people are crazy!
God is still here....Jefferson isn't.....just sayin
Here?
Where?
Did you see him?
First, we have to define "God". If we can ever do that.... we will get a lot of answers about the creation and development of mankind.
And I talked to Thomas Jefferson this morning. Thomas Jefferson didn't talk back, though. Did God talk back to you this morning?
Great original post about a founding father's American mindset that led to the creation of our nation through risk and blood.
America is the environment in which the individual has the right to explore his/her relationship to spirituality unfettered by the heavy yoke of organized oppression of thought. As the "wild flowers" of human spirit and thought grow in great diveristy, there will be competition for righteousness and positions of dominance in society, government, and in minds........however, it's the environment of America that needs to bring us all together in a common goal. The words freedom and liberty signify this environment......I might not like anything about what a fellow American thinks or believes, but attempting to destroy the environment in which the freedom exists for those beliefs and thoughts to grow would be treasonous to the essence of America.
Both left and right suffer from this desire to control the environment. Jefferson's quotes illuminate what America is, why is was powerful enough to win a revolution, and how it can continue to thrive. Freedom
America is the environment in which the individual has the right to explore his/her relationship to spirituality unfettered by the heavy yoke of organized oppression of thought. As the "wild flowers" of human spirit and thought grow in great diveristy, there will be competition for righteousness and positions of dominance in society, government, and in minds........however, it's the environment of America that needs to bring us all together in a common goal. The words freedom and liberty signify this environment......I might not like anything about what a fellow American thinks or believes, but attempting to destroy the environment in which the freedom exists for those beliefs and thoughts to grow would be treasonous to the essence of America.
Both left and right suffer from this desire to control the environment. Jefferson's quotes illuminate what America is, why is was powerful enough to win a revolution, and how it can continue to thrive. Freedom