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GYERO ARCHIVE

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M

Mattox

All-American
Feb 27, 2003
33,817
6,500
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This all goes back to the media having no concept of evidentiary standards. The NCAA's burden is not beyond a reasonable doubt. They're not trying McGee for a crime in a court of law, they're investigating a member institution for cheating at sports.

Who were the eyewitnesses in the Rose case? Where was the person saying that he took Rose's test? Where was the paper trail? None of those things existed. Memphis got hammered.

In this instance there are multiple eyewitnesses, phone records and a wire transfer. The issue is not "did this happen". I think they've nailed that down. The issue is now "who knew" or more importantly "who should have known". That's why Pitino was telling McGee through his media lapdogs to fall on the sword yesterday.
 
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J

JHB4UK

Heisman
May 29, 2001
31,836
11,258
0
shoo wee, Decoursey is blowing up my twitter for having the gall to point out his praise & linking of Crawford's article was misplaced

so, Mags52 is spending the rest of the week at a big democrat congress educational seminar? why is he still pretending this decision is up in the air, they wouldnt spend the money on him if he had not told them he was in.
 
P

PTI Anon1640710541

Heisman
Nov 14, 2002
40,458
53,107
113
it's awfully reassuring to know there are still segments of our society -- and this uofl/ncaa/***** situation is certainly one -- where we can "convict" someone not with evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, but rather common f'ing sense.
 
M

Mattox

All-American
Feb 27, 2003
33,817
6,500
66
Here's my long winded version of the above post to someone who emailed me asking about the evidence. Feel free to skip. I'll put it under a spoiler tag so it doesn't take up half a page unless you want it to.

She's an eyewitness, so are her two daughters. Their testimony is not hearsay. That's direct evidence. ESPN also had 5 players (3 Louisville players & 2 recruits) confirm the allegations. Also, not hearsay. They are eyewitnesses. They confirmed the phone records and wire transfer too. If this were court she could testify to all of that and the records could come in as evidence against Louisville. The forensic expert could testify about how authentic all of the records are. Her journals could also be used to allow her to refresh her recollection if she were testifying. There's pictures of her in the dorm, with the players that could also be used as evidence. For what other purpose would random prostitutes who do not live near the school or attend the school be in the dorm? If McGee were charged with some sort of crime and this was the evidence they had against him, he'd be found guilty. Easily.

There's no one who has directly rebutted any of her evidence. They've said things like "I didn't know" or "I didn't see anyone having sex" or "I didn't come there for these women". No one has said 100% the entire thing is made up. You have to present a defense at some point. Without McGee coming forward to deny everything, explaining this away somehow and the university coming up with a plausible reason why these prostitutes were actually in the dorm, they basically have no defense.

When someone is prosecuted for a drug or property crime, like trafficking or robbery, usually a lot of the eyewitnesses who have actual direct knowledge are other criminals or lowlifes. You don't have school teachers, pastors and little old grandmothers on the stand describing how Pookie's heroin distribution operation works, because they have no clue how it works. What you have are a few drug addicts and a low level dealer all with criminal histories who have cut deals for lesser charges saying Pookie is a drug dealer. And Pookie ends up in prison.

Besides the NCAA doesn't have a reasonable doubt evidentiary standard like a prosecutor in a criminal court. They popped Memphis because Rose refused to cooperate and answer their questions. They never actually proved he didn't take that test. I don't think they even had someone who said he took the test for Rose. Their case was much weaker against Memphis and Memphis was hit pretty hard. I'm sure Rose didn't actually take that test, but the burden they met in that case was a pretty low threshold. There weren't any eyewitnesses, no paper records, no phone records.

I don't even think the issue is now "did this happen". I think the issue now for Louisville is "who knew about this" and more importantly "who should have known". I don't think Pitino had direct knowledge. I think he knew they were having dorm parties and that naked women were involved and kids got laid. I doubt he realized that McGee was dumb enough to hire prostitutes off the street. I'm also sure he was aware McGee could get extra cash when he needed it to make sure recruits had a good time, like every other school playing big time sports. I'm guessing that one rung below Pitino people knew about the hookers though. I'd say one of the assistant coaches definitely knew. I'd also say Pitino was pretty willfully ignorant as to the specifics of what went on. This is a guy that obsesses over body fat percentages and is known as a micro manager. Him not having direct knowledge was strategic. That's what is problematic. The NCAA can now hit him because "he should have known" due to being been burned by all these big time coaches being willfully ignorant for years.

As far as Jurich, even if he knew exactly what was going on, there's no proof and there's no presumption that he "should have known" about this because he's too far removed from it. I think he's safe, for now. The one thing that could derail him would be a female student alleging she was raped or sexually assaulted in that dorm and sues the school. Then you can point to Jurich's handling of all these sex scandals (Ramsey too) and say they fostered this culture on campus, specifically in the athletic department. That is what has to be terrifying for the university. The right female student plaintiff with the right fact pattern could be an incredible problem for them in a federal lawsuit. They'd have to dump Jurich at that point and probably Ramsey, but it would not be directly related to cheating in athletics.

There you go. Probably more than you ever wanted to know about this.
 
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MaxPowerrr

Heisman
Feb 9, 2006
38,504
41,065
0
UnfrozenCatfanLawyer said:
I got news for you - we're approaching "beyond a reasonable doubt" with this stuff. Hell, we've probably already crossed that threshold.
Click to expand...
People have been convicted on less evidence. Circumstantial evidence is evidence. And there's physical evidence in this case in terms of phones, records, etc.
 
D

drxman1

Heisman
Nov 5, 2008
19,464
10,914
0
WHY DIDNT KATINA TAKE PICTURES, WE NEED TO SEE CHANE AND MEGA BANGING THESE WHORES OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN. DAMN THIS TATTLE TALE SOCIETY.

/Deener
 
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Century Cat

Century Cat

Heisman
Jan 3, 2003
17,997
11,859
113
When the book was first announced, some U of L fan posted on FB that "the standard of proof in a criminal case is 'beyond the shadow of a doubt' and the standard of proof in a civil case is 'beyond a reasonable doubt'."

[laughing]

[As I'm sure even GYERO non-lawyers know, it's

Criminal : Reasonable Doubt :/: Civil: Preponderance of Evidence].

But that's apparently how some of those people think.
 
UKwizard

UKwizard

Heisman
Dec 11, 2002
21,312
13,876
113
wcc31 said:
Listened to Forde's podcast this morning. Apparently, Louisville's fanbase has, and I quote, "less of a lunatic fringe' than most. [laughing]
Click to expand...

It's all relative. Sure it may be true because UofL's normal fan base = most schools lunatic fringe. So yeah they have less of a lunatic fringe.

also whores
 
M

Mattox

All-American
Feb 27, 2003
33,817
6,500
66
And the media can go on all they want about "did this really happen" but I guarantee you that's not what Chuck Smrt and the university's attorneys are focused on. They're trying to contain this to as few people as possible.
 
C

catlanta33

Heisman
Aug 27, 2013
78,926
19,571
0
Of so many great things coming out of this scandal, one of my favorite parts is seeing the UL faithful scramble to pin it on anyone but UL.

Rod-Ni f'd your recruit for money = IU is jealous of our success
Powell has a wire transfer = Cal paid AD 200K from his own wallet
No way Pitino had anything to do with this = CAL CHEATS AND AVERYONE KNOWS

You have to assume at one point the majority of their fans just realize they're only making the inevitable sanctions more painful by continually burying their heads. Then again, it's going to make it even better for all of us because of it so I say let them keep acting like nothing happened. I just hope KSR streams the midnight vigil for UL basketball TIL INFLATION.
 
K-GAR

K-GAR

Senior
Nov 17, 2004
6,060
704
113
You guys know I'm not "SOURCE!!" Guy... But one I consider reliable and within UL said Pitino is going to be out one way or another and it will likely be as early as this weekend
 
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PTI Anon1640710541

Heisman
Nov 14, 2002
40,458
53,107
113
K-GAR said:
You guys know I'm not "SOURCE!!" Guy... But one I consider reliable and within UL said Pitino is going to be out one way or another and it will likely be as early as this weekend
Click to expand...

did the the guy upload a selfie on his instagram of the interaction, shoot go pro video, then tweet out a blog about it??

nope.

didn't happen. get pumped.
 
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M

MaxPowerrr

Heisman
Feb 9, 2006
38,504
41,065
0
When someone is prosecuted for a drug or property crime, like trafficking or robbery, usually a lot of the eyewitnesses who have actual direct knowledge are other criminals or lowlifes. You don't have school teachers, pastors and little old grandmothers on the stand describing how Pookie's heroin distribution operation works, because they have no clue how it works. What you have are a few drug addicts and a low level dealer all with criminal histories who have cut deals for lesser charges saying Pookie is a drug dealer. And Pookie ends up in prison.

- M. Powerrr, basically, since day 1, or since 2001 really

Call it the "also, whores" rule of CrimPro.
 
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_Chase_

_Chase_

Heisman
Jan 22, 2004
33,893
33,371
113
I can honestly say, if the shoe were on the other foot, I'd want Cal to pack his **** up and GTFO. I'd want to take my medicine and put this behind me as quickly as possible, and never speak of it again. I certainly wouldn't hitch my wagon to a philandering, lying, egomaniac.

Maybe it's because I have confidence that our program would be able to rebound and be successful without Cal, whereas I think a large majority of UofL's fanbase deep down thinks they will be permanently mediocre without Pitino. They wouldn't admit it, but I think they feel it, and you can see it in their actions.

They know in their hearts that this was their program's climax(lol), and they'll do anything to stay there. Unfortunately for them, their one shining moment is tainted with stank hooker juice and wadded up one dollar bills.
 
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M

MaxPowerrr

Heisman
Feb 9, 2006
38,504
41,065
0
PTI (pti) said:
did the the guy upload a selfie on his instagram of the interaction, shoot go pro video, then tweet out a blog about it??

nope.

didn't happen. get pumped.
Click to expand...
By that logic, the only people in this thread who have ever had sex are the ones who have children, verified as their own. So get pumped, you virgins. Looking at you, BBdK, Doc, PTI, etc.
 
B

BBdK

Heisman
Sep 21, 2003
159,783
74,127
0
Had no clue there was such a thing as office chair snobbery.


$800, seriously? Chad is going to LOVE this new "trend"
 
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_Chase_

_Chase_

Heisman
Jan 22, 2004
33,893
33,371
113
I have a few simple conditions for my office chair.
  1. Armrests.
  2. It must be able to lean back like a recliner.
  3. Padding.
 
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T

Touch_Em_All

Senior
Sep 29, 2010
572
627
0
catlanta33 said:
Of so many great things coming out of this scandal, one of my favorite parts is seeing the UL faithful scramble to pin it on anyone but UL.

Rod-Ni f'd your recruit for money = IU is jealous of our success
Powell has a wire transfer = Cal paid AD 200K from his own wallet
No way Pitino had anything to do with this = CAL CHEATS AND AVERYONE KNOWS
Click to expand...

Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance.

They have entered the bargaining stage now...
 
S

SAECATFAN

Heisman
Nov 7, 2001
66,348
52,298
0
OFFICE CHAIR LITMUS TEST: If my lower back hurts after day 3, I need a new one. If it doesn't, profit.
 
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