Hal Mumme on the radio right now talking about the UK situation
- Thread starter UKani
- Start date
Grrrrrrrrrrr!! This stuff drives me nuts. First of all, what can he possibly bring to the table now? He put this program on a very costly probation. Secondly, his so called Air Raid offense was completely neutered and gutted by the end of his second year here by SEC DCs. In short, it doesn't work in the SEC. Finally, his team this year was 2-8 and averaged 18, that's EIGHTEEN, points a game. Just ridiculous.
I don't get the fascination with Mumme with some of our fans. If you look at his overall record it's barely .500. And that's at a lot of schools where the competition is not nearly at the SEC level.
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He could Re energize the fan base. I don't know whether we have the qb to run the air raid though
Since leaving UK Mumme has gone 55-82.
He was 12-11 at Southeastern La (D1-AA), 11-38 at New Mexico St (WAC), 28-16 at McMurry (DIII) and is currently 4-17 at Belhaven (NAIA).
In what universe does anyone think that Mumme could succeed at UK?
Said LSU when they shut Mumme out 34-0. Said Ole Miss after leading 35-3 before calling off the dogs.
There are always temporary exceptions, but for the most part Mumme ball did flame out in 2000.
Furthermore, Holgersons seat is getting hot. Dawson is out. Brown didn't do so hot @ UK either. Who knows how well Brown or Dawson would've worked out with an older roster though. However, even Texas A&M is about to figure out that Sumlins Air Raid isn't working so well in the SEC now that Manzel is gone.
It will be interesting to see how Huepel does at Mizzou.
People need to realize a "gimmick" offense isn't going to work in the SEC. Hence the reason we started running an I formation the end of the year.
I just don't get the love for Mumme on these boards. I preferred the offenses that Brent Pease and Joker Phillips ran at UK over Mumme.
Hal is not returning to UK unless to watch a game and I'm not real sure the welcome mat would be out. As a coach, his time has come and gone like a Texas tornado who destroys everything in its path in a very short period of time.
Thanks funny what people choose to remember. I remember Mumme thumping LSU at home and Kendrick Shanklin returning punts for TDs (something we dont do anymore, or emphasize being we dont have a ST coach). I also remember Mumme beating LSU at LSU. MSU at MSU, USC at USC, rarely losing to Vandy and Crushing our rival UL. His last two years he had to work with a Freshman QBs, just saying. Set multiple records, some that still stand today and we were constantly on the ESPN highlights. Yeah that was fun, who would ever want that again?
This might be the single dumbest thing I have read on here.
Your right, we should just line up and try to blow Alabama's defense off the line and run it down their throats with our oozing amounts of talent.......
Kentucky is the definition of a place that has to run a gimmick offense to be competitive. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to just quit watching football.
Mumme's offense was great until he started picking favorites instead of going with the best players at their position. The decision to run Bonner off and start Lorenzen, when he wasn't ready and admittedly had been beaten out badly, signaled the beginning of the end.
With that said, there are too many teams either using a form of the air raid or some of it's principles so it's lost it's best advantage - being different. When Mumme brought it to the main stream, defenses had been built to beat pro style offenses and run heavy offenses. They didn't know what hit 'em when we lined up primarily in 4 and 5 wide and used the entire field for the passing game.
Even though it isn't what it once was, forms of the air raid are still very viable and hard to stop. Tony Franklin is still whooping butt with it at Cal. Ole Miss, Oklahoma, Okie St, Baylor run a form of it with spread option mixed in and are productive. It can and does work in the SEC (see A & M when they have their 1st team QB in).
If Stoops is really committed to this offense, he needs to pick wisely. Someone with experience and swagger and then let him run it exactly how he sees fit.
With that said, there are too many teams either using a form of the air raid or some of it's principles so it's lost it's best advantage - being different. When Mumme brought it to the main stream, defenses had been built to beat pro style offenses and run heavy offenses. They didn't know what hit 'em when we lined up primarily in 4 and 5 wide and used the entire field for the passing game.
Even though it isn't what it once was, forms of the air raid are still very viable and hard to stop. Tony Franklin is still whooping butt with it at Cal. Ole Miss, Oklahoma, Okie St, Baylor run a form of it with spread option mixed in and are productive. It can and does work in the SEC (see A & M when they have their 1st team QB in).
If Stoops is really committed to this offense, he needs to pick wisely. Someone with experience and swagger and then let him run it exactly how he sees fit.
because the air raid at the time was a new movement on offense, born in the HS and small college ranks and Hal, correctly or not is widely viewed as the person who put it on the map in D1 and he did this at UK. The scheme has morphed over the years but the roots have grown and spread and the coaching tree is now very large. It is the one thing UK is most notable for FB-wise in the modern era - most who ever witnessed Bryant here are dead. I understand that probation cast a pall on his time here but while some embrace the air raid as part of our past not near enough do and just as the Bryant legacy was mostly squandered, so too does it appear will our air raid past.
I remember that too & unfortunately, it didn't last. Nor did it ever work well enough to seriously compete with Florida or UT. I remember that once the new wore off, it got really ugly. I remember a 7-5 UL team stomping him just like he did them, I remember an LSU team, that had lost to UAB, shutting him out 34-0. Also, I remember sitting in Oxford watching Ole Miss absolute dominate Mumme with a very mediocre 7-5 team. It's a good thing that Cutcliffe called off the dogs or that one could've gotten ridiculously ugly.
Furthermore, Mumme never really got it going after he left UK. Defenses figured out how to stop it (or slow it down) & that was that. A 55-82 record after leaving UK says it all.
I will grant that Leach is a somewhat different story, but the Big 12 isn't the SEC. Neither is the PAC 12.
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That's what brooks said when we beat LSU and went to 4 straight bowls. While Rafael little was running for over 100 yards a game. Let's just keep lining it up in the shotgun with two yards to go. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but with stoops "handcuffing" Dawson. You better get ready for a non "Air Raid" offense.
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Hal Mumme was on the radio with Chris Cross. Which is probably the only good interview in the history of that radio show. Hal Mumme touched upon the situation at UK.
Mumme says that the release of "philosophy differences" is no fluff by the media or Shannon Dawson, he said that there usually is a difference in philosophy when someone is really trying to run the Air Raid. Said that this is the reason why he decided to move down to D3 Belhaven and not take the many OC jobs that he was offered at top Power 5 programs. When asked to describe the Air Raid so that anybody can understand it, Hal Mumme said that its not an offense, its really an attitude on how you will do things. He said in simplest form the idea is to throw it short as many times as possible and when the defense takes that away then you throw it deep, then if you defense takes away both pass options you'll then run the ball. But Hal Mumme emphasized that running the ball is the 3rd option. He said that anytime you have a head coach saying that they want to run it more and be physical, then they aren't interested in running the Air Raid because you change the whole philosophy of the offense. Hal Mumme iterated that this is what Shannon Dawson ran into at UK.
He explained that the Air Raid has to make the defense play in an extreme that they aren't comfortable with. He said that extreme is a quick passing pass offense that could strike from anywhere on the field. He said defenses still aren't used to playing in that extreme. He said the extreme philosophy is why team run a hardcore triple option works. Option 1 is the RB run, Option 2 is the QB run, but the pass is the 3rd option. He explain that those teams do well when they commit to it and not try to half do it.
Mumme said to run that type of offense you can't have a QB competition because its very important that your QB and WRs rep the plays until they see it in there sleep, if they don't then it doesn't work. He said you've got to pick your QB and go with him because he's going to have to develop and that type of offense takes 2 years for a QB to master even with a max amount of reps. He said that you've got to have a QB that is smart, has good pocket presents, makes quick decisions, and can see the field. He said seeing the field is extremely important and the reason why you don't want a dual threat QB because they have a tendency to drop their eyes and find running lanes and not see the passing patterns develop that could create a more explosive play.
They then asked which teams in the nation are really running the Air Raid. Hal Mumme responded by saying that not a lot of people run the Air Raid. He said that the terms has become a buzz term for teams that throw the ball a lot, but its not true that all these teams are running the Air Raid. He said from his experiences the Air Raid doesn't work unless you run the full blown thing, which is why Tony Franklin didn't do well at Auburn, but has everywhere else. He said there are a lot of teams that have taken a play or 2 out of the Air Raid playbook, but that's all they've done, its not really the Air Raid. He said that only teams that are really running the Air Raid is West Virginia, Cal, and Washington State. He said that Mike Leach is running the Air Raid verbatim for how they originally created the offense. He said Dana Holgerson had create some interesting inside zone and outside zone running plays, with some different screens to take advantage of having a weak OLine, but that's all he's added. He said that Tony Franklin added some more horizontal stuff to it, but that's about it.
All in all, without directly saying it, he was saying that Mark Stoops was saying that he wanted the Air Raid, but that he had no intention of running the Air Raid when he talked about being physical and running the ball because you aren't forcing the defense to be uncomfortable and play in the extreme. I guess the QB competitions, and not picking a guy and going with him and giving him all the reps and at a high volume, and having the QB to run are also all violations against the Air Raid System.
Mumme says that the release of "philosophy differences" is no fluff by the media or Shannon Dawson, he said that there usually is a difference in philosophy when someone is really trying to run the Air Raid. Said that this is the reason why he decided to move down to D3 Belhaven and not take the many OC jobs that he was offered at top Power 5 programs. When asked to describe the Air Raid so that anybody can understand it, Hal Mumme said that its not an offense, its really an attitude on how you will do things. He said in simplest form the idea is to throw it short as many times as possible and when the defense takes that away then you throw it deep, then if you defense takes away both pass options you'll then run the ball. But Hal Mumme emphasized that running the ball is the 3rd option. He said that anytime you have a head coach saying that they want to run it more and be physical, then they aren't interested in running the Air Raid because you change the whole philosophy of the offense. Hal Mumme iterated that this is what Shannon Dawson ran into at UK.
He explained that the Air Raid has to make the defense play in an extreme that they aren't comfortable with. He said that extreme is a quick passing pass offense that could strike from anywhere on the field. He said defenses still aren't used to playing in that extreme. He said the extreme philosophy is why team run a hardcore triple option works. Option 1 is the RB run, Option 2 is the QB run, but the pass is the 3rd option. He explain that those teams do well when they commit to it and not try to half do it.
Mumme said to run that type of offense you can't have a QB competition because its very important that your QB and WRs rep the plays until they see it in there sleep, if they don't then it doesn't work. He said you've got to pick your QB and go with him because he's going to have to develop and that type of offense takes 2 years for a QB to master even with a max amount of reps. He said that you've got to have a QB that is smart, has good pocket presents, makes quick decisions, and can see the field. He said seeing the field is extremely important and the reason why you don't want a dual threat QB because they have a tendency to drop their eyes and find running lanes and not see the passing patterns develop that could create a more explosive play.
They then asked which teams in the nation are really running the Air Raid. Hal Mumme responded by saying that not a lot of people run the Air Raid. He said that the terms has become a buzz term for teams that throw the ball a lot, but its not true that all these teams are running the Air Raid. He said from his experiences the Air Raid doesn't work unless you run the full blown thing, which is why Tony Franklin didn't do well at Auburn, but has everywhere else. He said there are a lot of teams that have taken a play or 2 out of the Air Raid playbook, but that's all they've done, its not really the Air Raid. He said that only teams that are really running the Air Raid is West Virginia, Cal, and Washington State. He said that Mike Leach is running the Air Raid verbatim for how they originally created the offense. He said Dana Holgerson had create some interesting inside zone and outside zone running plays, with some different screens to take advantage of having a weak OLine, but that's all he's added. He said that Tony Franklin added some more horizontal stuff to it, but that's about it.
All in all, without directly saying it, he was saying that Mark Stoops was saying that he wanted the Air Raid, but that he had no intention of running the Air Raid when he talked about being physical and running the ball because you aren't forcing the defense to be uncomfortable and play in the extreme. I guess the QB competitions, and not picking a guy and going with him and giving him all the reps and at a high volume, and having the QB to run are also all violations against the Air Raid System.
not bad theory.
kinda hard to run the air raid when 1) the receivers can't hold on to the ball or 2) the quarterback locks onto only one receiver or 3) said quarterback is lying on his back or running for his life.
kinda hard to run the air raid when 1) the receivers can't hold on to the ball or 2) the quarterback locks onto only one receiver or 3) said quarterback is lying on his back or running for his life.
Add Guy Morris to the list. His 2002 team ran it MORE than they threw it with Pinner running over people. They went 7-5 and were a bluegrass miracle away from 8-4. Should've beaten Florida and South Carolina too. If the players had not mailed it in against UT, they might have beaten them too. What's ironic is that he ran that O instead of the Air Raid that he previously helped coached. Folks, that is very telling!!
What I remember about Mumme was an exciting offense and a complete lack of defense. He's always seemed like an OC trying to be an HC.
Mumme's comments are all well and good, but unless Stoops was mandating those runs on 2nd/3rd and long, I have a hard time believing Dawson was a true Air Raid guy.
All of that also explains why Patrick Towles is mad about things as well.... Seems to me that Patrick Towles was Shannon Dawson's guy and wanted to follow protocol of Air Raid preparation with him. But that didn't happen and Barker got half the reps in practice and then eventually switched the Barker, thus Air Raid preparation was violated in every way. Now I see why Towles would send a tweet insinuating that Dawson was handcuffed by Stoops.
I agree it would be great if you could turn back the hands of time but we can't. Hal hasn't been able to duplicate his modest success he had at UK since he left and almost every move he has made has been down a level. His next stop looks to be at the high school.level.
If what Mumme was doing today worked, he wouldn't be coaching at a tiny NAIA school in Mississippi.
Boy isn't that the truth. It was like he didn't care at all about the defensive side of the ball. We were horrible. Who was the DC? Major? Whatever happened to him?
While I don't totally disagree with what you're saying, if you asked 100 non-UK college football fans about where the Air Raid started in D1, I doubt if more a couple, if that many, would be able to tell you. And I'm not too sure how many would know it was Mumme. I've got a lot of OSU friends and they don't know who he is.
It's starting to become clear why the offense didn't really look very Air Raid the last three years. Dawson probably did the right thing getting out because you are not going to jump from Kentucky as a coordinator if you are playing to run clock more than quick strike. Brown got out before his stock plummeted. I don't know why Stoops went air raid and then not let his coordinators run the true system. It didn't work out very well with the tweak that came from the top. Hopefully the next OC can run a time management system that helps keep the total points down.
Write it down....Mumme is coming back to the Bluegrass
Let those sirens roar!!!
AWWWOOOOOOOGAH!!!!
Let those sirens roar!!!
AWWWOOOOOOOGAH!!!!
If that's the case at no point did we attempt to run the air raid this year. QBs held the ball so long it would have been impossible to n complete a quick hitter.
Thank you, UKani. Almost every word of that post reads very, very much like the arguments I have made as to "what" is an Air Raid offense. I understand that if Mumme says it, it carries more weight than if I say it. I'll say again, there is simply no such thing as a "balanced" Air Raid. With Air Raid, you go "all in" with a high volume passing game. Holgerson did run Air Raid his first few years at WVA but I will argue that they are no longer an Air Raid team. The 'Eeers were 59/41 run/pass this year and about 50/50 last year.
Peace