Has recruiting been worse in the B1G?

[dmaw]

The pervasive theory (in expansion related threads at least) is that Nebraska's recruiting has taken a hit since joining. A lot of Big 12 fans seem to believe that's the case.

So, was recruiting better in the Big 12? And could a hypothetical move back boost NU's recruiting?

 

[jedihusker]

The pervasive theory (in expansion related threads at least) is that Nebraska's recruiting has taken a hit since joining. A lot of Big 12 fans seem to believe that's the case.

So, was recruiting better in the Big 12? And could a hypothetical move back boost NU's recruiting?

I think in some ways it's hard to really say, because Bo Pelini was the coach during that transition, and for a few years before and after; and it's pretty safe to say not too many people were impressed with his recruiting ability anyway, so attributing anything to moving to the B1G would be kind of hard. However, his best class by rank came in 2011 (plenty of arguments to made on how good that class actually was, but for the sake of arguement we'll just go with ranks) and by the time that class was signed, we were already destined for the B1G. His next best class by rank came in 2013, after the B1G transition.

In general, I don't think it has hurt our recruiting. It may have changed us to recruiting Texas a little less, but Nebraska has always had to recruit nationally, so I don't really think it's made much difference.

 

[GBRhuskers_rivals203711]

Nebraska isn't going back to the Big 12, get that through your thick skull.

Solich average class ranking was 45th. To be fair, that's only one class per Rivals, as my search came up empty for 2002 class.

Callahan average class ranking was 14th. Three full classes.

Pelini average class ranking was 24th. Six full classes.
Pelini average class ranking was 23rd as a Big 12 member. Three full classes, 16th was highest, 30th was lowest.
Pelini average class ranking was 25th as a B1G member. Three full classes, 17th was highest, 32nd was lowest.

Riley average class ranking is 26th. One full class.

2004 transition class ranking 26th, Big 12 member.
2008 transition class ranking 30th, Big 12 member.
2015 transition class ranking 28th, B1G member.

Hope I did this right, still learning to navigate through Rivals database. What I listed is total points rankings as I think that's the default Rivals has.

 

[TFrazier_rivals269992]

Third post since 2009. Welcome back!! Winking

 

[Truehuskerfan]

First of all, let's get one thing straight. There is no hypothetical move back to the Big 12-period, end of story. It is nothing more than a fantasy by Big 12 people. A lot of Big 12 fans seem to think they know what's best for us and what we want. They never seem to ask us or even care what we think. Maybe they should spend more time trying to keep their pathetic dying out conference together than trying to figure out ways to get us back in when we don't want back in.

I decided to look back at our Rivals recruiting rankings since 2003(the first year available) and determined our average recruiting ranking from 2003-2010(Big 12) and 2011-2016(B1G). Our average recruiting ranking in the Big 12 was 26.375. In the B1G it has been 24.16. So our recruiting has actually gotten slightly better in the B1G, not worse. So there goes that argument.

 

[meo1960]

Nebraska isn't going back to the Big 12, get that through your thick skull.

Solich average class ranking was 45th. To be fair, that's only one class per Rivals, as my search came up empty for 2002 class.

Callahan average class ranking was 14th. Three full classes.

Pelini average class ranking was 24th. Six full classes.
Pelini average class ranking was 23rd as a Big 12 member. Three full classes, 16th was highest, 30th was lowest.
Pelini average class ranking was 25th as a B1G member. Three full classes, 17th was highest, 32nd was lowest.

Riley average class ranking is 26th. One full class.

2004 transition class ranking 26th, Big 12 member.
2008 transition class ranking 30th, Big 12 member.
2015 transition class ranking 28th, B1G member.

Hope I did this right, still learning to navigate through Rivals database. What I listed is total points rankings as I think that's the default Rivals has.

As of 8/3, we are 5th in the B1G.

 

[GBRhuskers_rivals203711]

As of 8/3, we were 5th in the B1G.

Irrelevant to this threads discussion, and my response you quoted.

 

[meo1960]

Irrelevant to this threads discussion, and my response you quoted.

Sorry, your 9 uses of the term "class ranking", threw me off.

 

[nebcountry]

The pervasive theory (in expansion related threads at least) is that Nebraska's recruiting has taken a hit since joining. A lot of Big 12 fans seem to believe that's the case.

So, was recruiting better in the Big 12? And could a hypothetical move back boost NU's recruiting?

I suppose less opportunity to see NU play in Texas COULD hurt recruiting in Texas.

Having a coaching staff give up before they try would have more of an impact in my opinion.

OhSU offered 17 total 5* players last year... they landed 2. B1G or Big12, I don't think it matters. Having something to sell, having the personnel to sell it, sticking to it knowing you'll lose more battles than you win, that's more important than which conference you're in is my opinion.

 

[litespeedhuskerfan_rivals19671]

I read his post twice, and didn't read anything regarding him wanting us to go back to the Big 12, not sure how you got that out of his post. I read it as a hypothetical, and just talking football, your mileage may vary. Having said that, NU's recruiting pre and post Callahan has kinda sucked. Oh sure, we've had a class here or there that was decent, but overall, since TO retired, our recruiting has been nothing to brag about.

 

[GeorgeFlippin]

One thing's for sure, when you see teams like Houston, Navy, and Western Kentucky ranked ahead of UNL in the preseason AP top 25, you know Nebraska still has some tall cotton to chop in regards of better recruiting and coaching. Nothing against the before mentioned teams, but I never thought I'd see that bunch rated ahead of Nebraska in any preseason poll, with the Huskers being unranked in both (AP, Coaches). My how times have changed.

However, I am confident that this team will be a bit better version than 2015, and I do believe 8, 9 wins are possible. But as we know, it will take improvement in all 3 phases to get it done. Let's hope that happens.

 

[HuskerLLM]

NU is 4th in the B1G behind only the other three blue bloods and would be 3rd in the Big 12 behind only the two other Blue Bloods based off of AV Star, so the answer is no recruiting hasn't taken a hit with the move to the B1G.

 

[GBRhuskers_rivals203711]

Sorry, your 9 uses of the term "class ranking", threw me off.

All 9 are class rankings finalized, not with 6 months remaining.

 

[meo1960]

NU is 4th in the B1G behind only the other three blue bloods and would be 3rd in the Big 12 behind only the two other Blue Bloods based off of AV Star, so the answer is no recruiting hasn't taken a hit with the move to the B1G.

(As of 8/5/16 6:28PM)Rivals Rankings in both Total Points & Avg. Star Rankings
Ohio State...................3.76.....2704
Michigan.....................3.59.....2603
Michigan State............3.45.....2101
Penn State..................3.25.....1850
Nebraska....................3.14......1771

NU 26th in Avg. Star Ranking
NU 26th in Overall points

Other recruiting rankings may vary.

 

[meo1960]

All 9 are class rankings finalized, not with 6 months remaining.

Hence, the use of the "As of 8/3," preface.

 

[GBRhuskers_rivals203711]

so the answer is no recruiting hasn't taken a hit with the move to the B1G.

It seems some people have their minds made up regardless of reality.

Hence, the use of the "As of 8/3," preface.

Hence why your response is irrelevant.

 

[yort2000]

(As of 8/5/16 6:28PM)Rivals Rankings in both Total Points & Avg. Star Rankings
Ohio State...................3.76.....2704
Michigan.....................3.59.....2603
Michigan State............3.45.....2101
Penn State..................3.25.....1850
Nebraska....................3.14......1771

NU 26th in Avg. Star Ranking
NU 26th in Overall points

Other recruiting rankings may vary.

UGH!!!!! This kind of crap drives me crazy. You are splitting hairs the size of a gnat's ***. I'll grant you that a Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods type athlete are transcendent (if you are relying on that type of player, you seriously need to rethink your strategy). However, in the real world, for the 2012-2013 school year, 1,088,158 high school students played football divided by 4 equals around 270,000 high school football players graduating each year. There are 128 Division 1 schools times 25 scholarship limit per year equals 3,200. That equates to around 1.2% of the available pool. Let that sink in, the top 98.5% of high school senior football players are there for the taking for every single Division 1 football team every year. Differentiating between the 99.5 percentile and the 98.5 percentile is a fool's errand. Leadership (coaching), as with everything else in life, is the main factor. As the saying goes, **** rolls downhill.

 

[ellobo_rivals188748]

UGH!!!!! This kind of crap drives me crazy. You are splitting hairs the size of a gnat's ***. I'll grant you that a Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods type athlete are transcendent (if you are relying on that type of player, you seriously need to rethink your strategy). However, in the real world, for the 2012-2013 school year, 1,088,158 high school students played football divided by 4 equals around 270,000 high school football players graduating each year. There are 128 Division 1 schools times 25 scholarship limit per year equals 3,200. That equates to around 1.2% of the available pool. Let that sink in, the top 98.5% of high school senior football players are there for the taking for every single Division 1 football team every year. Differentiating between the 99.5 percentile and the 98.5 percentile is a fool's errand. Leadership (coaching), as with everything else in life, is the main factor. As the saying goes, **** rolls downhill.

Which is why Indiana has a real chance to not only win the B10 this year but the next 10 NC's in a row. OK...no...It's not a "fool's errand" but rather the job of the coaches is to differentiate between the 99.5 and 98.5 percentile (and then recruit them of course). The best programs land most of their players from what they identify as the top 99.5+ percentile...you do get that Alabama is not offering all 3,200 of the top 98.5, don't care which of the top 98.5 they get and just relying on coaching them up?

 

[meo1960]

UGH!!!!! This kind of crap drives me crazy. You are splitting hairs the size of a gnat's ***. I'll grant you that a Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods type athlete are transcendent (if you are relying on that type of player, you seriously need to rethink your strategy). However, in the real world, for the 2012-2013 school year, 1,088,158 high school students played football divided by 4 equals around 270,000 high school football players graduating each year. There are 128 Division 1 schools times 25 scholarship limit per year equals 3,200. That equates to around 1.2% of the available pool. Let that sink in, the top 98.5% of high school senior football players are there for the taking for every single Division 1 football team every year. Differentiating between the 99.5 percentile and the 98.5 percentile is a fool's errand. Leadership (coaching), as with everything else in life, is the main factor. As the saying goes, **** rolls downhill.

Allow me to clarify.
-We are, as of 8/3/16, ranked 26th overall & 5th in the B1G.
-We finished 26th last year. Not a great leap to think were going to finish around 26th this year.
-Pelini averaged around 25 for all his classes. Similar to Rileys 1st year and on par with this years class.
- As long as I've been paying attention to recruiting, seems we've been in the 20-30 range, give or take an occasional outlier.

So, has recruiting been worse since joining the B1G? Someone pointed out it might be fractionally better. Not significantly better or worse, imho.

In 4 weeks, the funnest time of my year kicks off. GBR!

 

[dockentwo]

I suppose less opportunity to see NU play in Texas COULD hurt recruiting in Texas.

Having a coaching staff give up before they try would have more of an impact in my opinion.

OhSU offered 17 total 5* players last year... they landed 2. B1G or Big12, I don't think it matters. Having something to sell, having the personnel to sell it, sticking to it knowing you'll lose more battles than you win, that's more important than which conference you're in is my opinion.

This is a very good post - well stated opinion and some great information. I believe many would think OhSU offered more than 17 five stars; and more so, that they hit on more than two. The general vibe on this board seems to be they offer 30+ five stars and hit on about half = unbeatable ( ahem ). Go Big Red; 2% a day.

 

[dockentwo]

UGH!!!!! This kind of crap drives me crazy. You are splitting hairs the size of a gnat's ***. I'll grant you that a Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods type athlete are transcendent (if you are relying on that type of player, you seriously need to rethink your strategy). However, in the real world, for the 2012-2013 school year, 1,088,158 high school students played football divided by 4 equals around 270,000 high school football players graduating each year. There are 128 Division 1 schools times 25 scholarship limit per year equals 3,200. That equates to around 1.2% of the available pool. Let that sink in, the top 98.5% of high school senior football players are there for the taking for every single Division 1 football team every year. Differentiating between the 99.5 percentile and the 98.5 percentile is a fool's errand. Leadership (coaching), as with everything else in life, is the main factor. As the saying goes, **** rolls downhill.

I think some might point out the success of the star system; with validity - but a high miss ratio there also. In some ways it could be like the draft system; the higher rated may get more reps and opportunities; due to the investment made in them.
To use boxing, a Mike Tyson was out there and just lucky enough to get an older manager interested. There are so many factors; the numbers you throw up show the huge potential that is going unevaluated in many cases.... I love this new staff and all their effort. I believe they can ID a two star they think could end up a draft pick; and some get upgraded after committing and a new season. But they will be developed.... So we are in a great position; Bo came into a better situation; he left and promoted a derisive mess. With wins; we will be top ten realized or unrealized in the next few years ( T O kept his own lists and said he wouldn't offer many of the top 50 ranked players at that time ). So the 26th ranked class of the first year; probably was high achieving and will be his lowest rated class for some time. IMO - Go Big Red

 

[NikkiSixx_rivals269993]

Allow me to clarify.
-We are, as of 8/3/16, ranked 26th overall & 5th in the B1G.

This is incorrect. When you go to the team rankings page, it still defaults to last year, so the 26th you are looking at, is for last year's class. Switch it to 2017 in the drop down, and you will see we are at 35th overall, and 9th in the B1G.


The argument some of you guys are making about recruiting between the two conferences to me, seems it is about the same, maybe slightly worse in the B1G, but the difference does not appear to be significant.

I think the source of recruits is very different though, as in the Big12, we would get many of them out of Texas. And lately, it seems we are getting more from California.

I don't think we are going back to the Big12, at least not in the next 6 years. If however, the ESPN revenue model continues to implode, that could very well change in time.

The way television is being consumed is changing. Depending on how big of a shakeup things turn out to be, anything is possible. Just imagine for a moment, that those payments from ESPN stop showing up in the B1G's mailbox.

 

[tone1017]

UGH!!!!! This kind of crap drives me crazy. You are splitting hairs the size of a gnat's ***. I'll grant you that a Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods type athlete are transcendent (if you are relying on that type of player, you seriously need to rethink your strategy). However, in the real world, for the 2012-2013 school year, 1,088,158 high school students played football divided by 4 equals around 270,000 high school football players graduating each year. There are 128 Division 1 schools times 25 scholarship limit per year equals 3,200. That equates to around 1.2% of the available pool. Let that sink in, the top 98.5% of high school senior football players are there for the taking for every single Division 1 football team every year. Differentiating between the 99.5 percentile and the 98.5 percentile is a fool's errand. Leadership (coaching), as with everything else in life, is the main factor. As the saying goes, **** rolls downhill.

Yeah I mean this is just not true. The numbers may be right but the rest is nonsensical. You have to get the best players to win. Look at the recent champs, Bama, Auburn, Bama, Bama, Fsu, Ohio State, Bama. I'm not even going to waste my time looking up their recruiting rankings because they've obviously been dominant. There are exceptions like Michigan state and Oregon and Stanford who have all competed without awesome classes, but look what happened to Oregon and Michigan state when they met the last two champs, they got destroyed. Discerning who the best players are and getting them to play for you is the most important aspect of a coach's job. Xs and Os are great but when your oline gets eaten alive by bamas 8 nfl dlinemen it doesn't really matter. Recruiting rankings aren't perfect but getting highly ranked classes is the best predictor of championships, that's not a fluke, talent wins most of the time.

 

[nebcountry]

This is incorrect. When you go to the team rankings page, it still defaults to last year, so the 26th you are looking at, is for last year's class. Switch it to 2017 in the drop down, and you will see we are at 35th overall, and 9th in the B1G.


The argument some of you guys are making about recruiting between the two conferences to me, seems it is about the same, maybe slightly worse in the B1G, but the difference does not appear to be significant.

I think the source of recruits is very different though, as in the Big12, we would get many of them out of Texas. And lately, it seems we are getting more from California.

I don't think we are going back to the Big12, at least not in the next 6 years. If however, the ESPN revenue model continues to implode, that could very well change in time.

The way television is being consumed is changing. Depending on how big of a shakeup things turn out to be, anything is possible. Just imagine for a moment, that those payments from ESPN stop showing up in the B1G's mailbox.

It seems to me that California recruiting has been more successful as well. I don't think we landed a single player out of texas in the 2016 class. These were the geographical recruiting areas of responsibility from spring:

Offensive coordinator Danny Langsdorf: Colorado and Missouri + quarterbacks
Offensive line coach Mike Cavanaugh: 500-mile radius
Special teams coordinator Bruce Read: 500-mile radius
Defensive line coach John Parrella: Illinois, Ohio, New Jersey
Defensive backs coach Brian Stewart: Southeast
Wide receivers coach Keith Williams: New Orleans and Northern California, Los Angeles
Linebackers coach Trent Bray: North Texas (panhandle plus Dallas-Fort Worth) and north half of Louisiana.
Defensive coordinator Mark Banker: Southern California and Arizona
Running backs coach Reggie Davis: Southern Texas (includes Houston and San Antonio).

Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion on what is "good" recruiting and who on the staff is good and bad at recruiting. We certainly assign recruiting responsibility to texas. Is a texas recruit different than a california recruit and different than a florida recruit? I don't know.

What will happen if or when the espn checks start getting smaller? I would think all of CFB would be affected for the upper tier media rights if you're implying a decline in network or "cable" viewership. And at least to me, that is a completely different discussion.

 

[NikkiSixx_rivals269993]

We certainly assign recruiting responsibility to texas. Is a texas recruit different than a california recruit and different than a florida recruit? I don't know.

What will happen if or when the espn checks start getting smaller? I would think all of CFB would be affected for the upper tier media rights if you're implying a decline in network or "cable" viewership. And at least to me, that is a completely different discussion.

I have no idea if there is a difference between a california recruit vs. a texas recruit etc.. To me, it seems silly to think that there would be, but who knows??

There was some discussion in the thread about how NU would never go back to the Big 12, but given the potential financial sports bubble, I would never say never.

After reading that link the other day about what was going on in the Big12, it made me think of other ways conferences could manipulate the system for additional money down the road. Instead of adding schools to get a bump, later, a conference could remove a school to also get a bump.. A conference could also change to a non equal revenue sharing model.. the point being, when there is less money to go around conferences and schools will get more creative in ways to get their share.

 

[jeans15]

Nebraska plays on TV in Texas every week....so parents would never have to miss a game.

 

[Truehuskerfan]

I have no idea if there is a difference between a california recruit vs. a texas recruit etc.. To me, it seems silly to think that there would be, but who knows??

There was some discussion in the thread about how NU would never go back to the Big 12, but given the potential financial sports bubble, I would never say never. After reading that link the other day about what was going on in the Big12, it made me think it is possible to see a conference kick a school out if they aren't adding enough value or if they are just diluting the conference winnings. When there is less money to go around, travel costs will also matter more.. A conference could change to a non equal sharing model. There is a lot that could happen.. it might even help rid the sport of so much parity that has been engineered.

What are you trying to suggest-that the B1G might kick us out at some point? If the B1G is going to kick some teams out for not adding enough value(which I find highly unlikely), there's a number of teams in the conference that would go before we would. Trying to suggest that we could be kicked out of the B1G is preposterous.

 

[NikkiSixx_rivals269993]

What are you trying to suggest-that the B1G might kick us out at some point? If the B1G is going to kick some teams out for not adding enough value(which I find highly unlikely), there's a number of teams in the conference that would go before we would. Trying to suggest that we could be kicked out of the B1G is preposterous.

No, I'm not. There are many things that could happen in the landscape. If you read that article about what was happening with the B1G, you would probably understand my point much better. I was not saying that at all, so please don't make that assumption.

I've edited the post so that it doesn't read like I'm suggesting what you were thinking. Hopefully it is more clear now.

 

[nebcountry]

No, I'm not. There are many things that could happen in the landscape. If you read that article about what was happening with the B1G, you would probably understand my point much better. I was not saying that at all, so please don't make that assumption.

I've edited the post so that it doesn't read like I'm suggesting what you were thinking. Hopefully it is more clear now.

I understood where you're coming from. I try not to use the word "never", that's a long time. We're in the B1G. Unless something drastically changes, I can see us staying in the B1G. Things are changing though, people are cutting the cable cord, a generation more preoccupied with their cell phone, and huge bowl/playoff money just to name a few.

If or when we start seeing dwindling revenues in CFB, that's when I see some big things happening. We're still in the 7 years of plenty, this discussion will be more aptly suited for the 7 years of naught.

 

[meo1960]

This is incorrect. When you go to the team rankings page, it still defaults to last year, so the 26th you are looking at, is for last year's class. Switch it to 2017 in the drop down, and you will see we are at 35th overall, and 9th in the B1G.


The argument some of you guys are making about recruiting between the two conferences to me, seems it is about the same, maybe slightly worse in the B1G, but the difference does not appear to be significant.

I think the source of recruits is very different though, as in the Big12, we would get many of them out of Texas. And lately, it seems we are getting more from California.

I don't think we are going back to the Big12, at least not in the next 6 years. If however, the ESPN revenue model continues to implode, that could very well change in time.

The way television is being consumed is changing. Depending on how big of a shakeup things turn out to be, anything is possible. Just imagine for a moment, that those payments from ESPN stop showing up in the B1G's mailbox.

Not sure why they wouldn't default to current year, but I should have caught that. Thanks

So, switching to 2017, as of 8/6/16 we are
Overall - 35th & 8th in the B1G and
Avg Star Ranking - 20th and 4th in the B1G

Heres hoping for a strong finish. GBR

 

[Truehuskerfan]

Not sure why they wouldn't default to current year, but I should have caught that. Thanks

So, switching to 2017, as of 8/6/16 we are
Overall - 35th & 8th in the B1G and
Avg Star Ranking - 20th and 4th in the B1G

Heres hoping for a strong finish. GBR

The bolded is the most important at this point. Because at this point, the number of recruits is so out of balance from one team to another, that the overall rankings are misleading. Having a high ranking just because you've got 20+ recruits committed but have an average star rating below 3 is practically worthless. It means you have nowhere to go up and only down. We actually have one of the lower commit numbers(and still are at our highest number ever at this point) which means that unless we tank in recruiting the rest of the way we still have plenty of room to go up.

 

[endohusker741_rivals492327]

NU is 4th in the B1G behind only the other three blue bloods and would be 3rd in the Big 12 behind only the two other Blue Bloods based off of AV Star, so the answer is no recruiting hasn't taken a hit with the move to the B1G.

Did you just call Penn State a blue blood?

 

[OkeyDokeyNU]

As of 8/3, we are 5th in the B1G.

We're actually ranking lower than the "car window/drive-by recruiters" that were the Pelini years. And these guys even use Twittter!

 

[timnsun]

We're actually ranking lower than the "car window/drive-by recruiters" that were the Pelini years. And these guys even use Twittter!

Nice drive by...

 

[Cornicator]

This topic is stupid. Nebraska has been removed from the Big 12 for 6 full recruiting cycles. Secondly, judging anything based on Pelini is a bit lazy.... That man had no plan or recruiting organization. The good players who came to Nebraska under Bo came because of the N on the Helmet. They came because of the facilities and the fan support, and the tradition.

Coincidentally, the 2016 class, is the most athletic class Nebraska has brought in more than a decade. Even a guy like Bootle, who was discovered at a Satellite Camp and wasnt heavily recruited, is a high level athlete. He ran a 21.3 electronic in the 200 and a 10.6 electronic in the 100.