I know it's just a message board, but I always respected you on here. Until now.
Hazing at Wheaton College
- Thread starter gebronco
- Start date
I know it's just a message board, but I always respected you on here. Until now.
I get it. If it's youth or high school I would throw them off without a second thought but college sports are different, they are pretty much the height of hypocrisy.
How many times do you see a college coach get fired and they talk about how great things were Monday thru Friday but he didn't get the results they needed on Saturday? Why don't we ever see a press realease talking about how successful a coach is in Saturday but he is being fired for his teams low GPA and graduation rate? College athletics are the worst at all levels coaches have to win and a lot of times to win you have leave your morals at the door. Would it be the right thing for Wheaton throw the kids off the team? Of course it would but the teams you are competing against aren't doing it so why should you handicap yourself? It's Machevelian buts it's just the way I see it.
Good thing you are not. Due process be damned! I agree with suspending the players pending the criminal investigation. Does innocent until proven guilty have any meaning anymore?
This has been a tough couple of years for Wheaton College.
Not too long ago they had to strip the name of a former speaker of the house from one of it's buildings. Now this.
If the allegations are found to be true, they may need to shut the football program down for a year or two.
Not too long ago they had to strip the name of a former speaker of the house from one of it's buildings. Now this.
If the allegations are found to be true, they may need to shut the football program down for a year or two.
Ya not sure about your logic.
They draw what 2000-3000 people to a game at Wheaton College, if that? I had a buddy play at SXU and lost 6 games in 4 years, won a National Title at the NAIA level, and never played in front of more than 3000 people at home. Games aren't on TV. The coach is getting paid what 125K, the assistants are maybe getting 35-80k? This isn't big time win at all costs football where TV contracts are driving everything. What does winning a D3 national title do for the school? Do more kids enroll, probably not, does it create more interest in your school, probably not. This isn't D1 football where the entire country sees your games on TV.
I'd argue most D3 athletic programs are only around to get students in the door. There is no way they are making money off of the program, they are making money because a kid is paying 25k to attend instead of 35k to attend because they are getting "Academic Grants" as an athlete. If you are openly allowing players to play that are sexually assaulting fellow students, I would imagine your enrollment is going to take a dip. The type of kid that is attending Wheaton is most likely looking for a smaller school environment, and a faith based education. Most likely not a kid that wants to party it up 3-4 nights a week, I can't imagine this is the type of school they want to attend.
Most D3 programs do keep students coming to the college but I had a University President and Director of Giving tell me there is direct relationship between donations and athletic success. It sounds strange but even at the D3 level schools have found ways to use the athletic programs to raise money for the schools.
Is hazing wrong?
I suppose it depends on your definition of hazing. Most would contend "a little" hazing isn't bad, but "too much" is. I think some guidelines should be in place: nothing that robs the dignity of the person or is physically scarring, with something similar to the special forces training: you can quit anytime (but you really want to stick it out).
I recall UGa back in the early 80s would give the freshmen shaved heads and have them wear their white socks pulled up high. Once the freshman Herschel Walker trucked Billy Bates, they all began to wear their socks pulled up high.
I suppose it depends on your definition of hazing. Most would contend "a little" hazing isn't bad, but "too much" is. I think some guidelines should be in place: nothing that robs the dignity of the person or is physically scarring, with something similar to the special forces training: you can quit anytime (but you really want to stick it out).
I recall UGa back in the early 80s would give the freshmen shaved heads and have them wear their white socks pulled up high. Once the freshman Herschel Walker trucked Billy Bates, they all began to wear their socks pulled up high.
Correct, the high tide raises all boats. The people with money want to be around a winning culture, and a winning program. A lot easier to say "Hey we need 10K a year" when you're winning 9-10 games a year compared to 4-5. No one wants to be associated with losers, but no one wants to be tied to a sex scandal either.
Interesting to see how this all plays out.
Ok I wasn't sure if there was a connection other than the college.
All U.S. military academies haze their plebes in a non physical way. Singing songs, running squared corners, remembering various military memorandum, and a ton of other things. This type of what some would call hazing has been a tradition for over a century and the academies have turned out great leaders of our military services. The physical part of the hazing is running and push ups if the plebe screws up. If the plebe screws up too often that person is probably not fit for military service. If they can make it thru the first year of academies they have proven they belong to that class of warriors.
If the type of activity alleged to have occurred at Wheaton College happened at any of the academies the offenders would definitely have been dismissed from them.
My son and grandson graduated from the US Naval Academy and came out better adjusted to the real world. So IMO some mild hazing while not making the person a better athlete or military leader does in fact make them part of the team/class in proving themselves capable of taking orders that later they themselves will be giving. Learning how to treat your subordinates starts with being on the bottom rung yourself so you know what your younger classmates and later in service shipmates are going through .
If the type of activity alleged to have occurred at Wheaton College happened at any of the academies the offenders would definitely have been dismissed from them.
My son and grandson graduated from the US Naval Academy and came out better adjusted to the real world. So IMO some mild hazing while not making the person a better athlete or military leader does in fact make them part of the team/class in proving themselves capable of taking orders that later they themselves will be giving. Learning how to treat your subordinates starts with being on the bottom rung yourself so you know what your younger classmates and later in service shipmates are going through .
Wheaton College has always made a big deal about being morally superior.
This is a school that until recently banned its faculty from smoking and drinking.
This is the same college that until recently would expel you if you even had a touch of alcohol (despite the fact that students were 21 and over).
This is the same college that until recently banned school dances.
This is a school that has a motto: For Christ and His Kingdom.
This is a school that makes its students signed a Community Covenant. Here is a copy: https://www.wheaton.edu/about-wheaton/community-covenant/
I guess that all doesn't matter when it comes to football and the possibility of a national championship. The knew about all of this and covered it up.
Guess they all missed bible class: Proverbs 17:15 : He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the Lord.
Me? I just call them what they are: Hypocrites
But if they did punish the kids (which the article says it did) is it still a cover up?
Great post. If you are going to sell out your values to win just do it and don't be ashamed about. There is so there is so much fake veneer that I just want someone come out and say we don't care we just want to win. Wheaton College is getting beat up about this situation and rightfully so but they are far from the only one that does it.
Wait until a year later and only until it comes out in the media?. These guys all played last week against Carthage.
And, these guys were all at practice as of Monday and a couple yesterday before they were removed. Wheaton College screwed this up and let these three individuals play in order to improve their chances on the football field. You would think that with the recent scandals at Baylor and Penn State they might have learned a thing or two.
Alas, they chose to hide in the corner and hope no one noticed.
We seem to run into problems when we hold the execution before the trial.
How would anyone not notice? They had to know about Lake Zurich and what it cost the coaching staff there?
Solid point. And I would agree with you but the school had an internal investigation. They knew what happened here and it appears that they were willing the sweep it under the rug.
The school was notified back when it happened and dealt with it. I guess I'm wondering why a year and a half later it is in the papers.
According to the Wheaton College football website for the game against Carthage, Kregel played at center and Spielman started at nose tackle. Pettway played as substitute and did not give a specific position. TeBos played in the game prior.
ok, so you have coached for 11yrs. have you had your kids break from a huddle whilst clapping their hands break.
you ever go out for pizza after a game and have them tell you what was good about the game or what they did not think was good.
same damn thing. everyone on the same page, everyone uniforming to same tune. building trust.
shaving ones head trusting that dude is not gonna cutya, everyone looks allot fiercer, team bonding.
jamming something up someones *** is not the same thing, its just assault and both schools should be from the top down prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. and the parents trying to cover it up should be right next to them all.
I cannot sit here a read this crap that you do not understand team bonding which is used quite often in the real world by major companies, and militaries every damn day.
does it actually make you better. actually yes. you try harder, you trust more, and give everything you have for the guy or girl next to you. suddenly something is bigger than YOU. you trust them with your life, and they trust you with theirs.
but, you are correct about the selfishness. and that also starts with the parents, coaches, staff, and the I can do whatever it takes to win attitude. pass this kid because he is retarded and can't spell his name but he can play his *** off on a field. it is the little things that actually turn into big things. now they think they can getaway with murder. and they do, and still get to continue to play.
how stupid does that sound. it is the world we live in, nobody is responsible for their actions anymore. everyone has someone else to blame. and you get to lashout, hurt, punish, beatup, break stuff just because you don't agree with it. no one has to suffer any consequences anymore.
Clearly these young men, if they are guilty, are both ignorant and fully lack the "Christian Values" that Wheaton College places such a high value on. And, as terrible as this situation is, all parties will have their day in court and these five young men and most importantly the victim, will all be scarred for life.
If found guilty, the 5 will be forever associated with this incident and their futures may be ruined. Rightfully so. The victim, who's courage to come forward will hopefully be rewarded in life and he and he and his family will find peace. I wonder if there are others at this college whom have suffered in silence??
I have personally been on the campus at Wheaton for sporting events and would never allowed my child to attend this school. My experience was that they appear to be conveniently Christian--when it serves their needs.
If found guilty, the 5 will be forever associated with this incident and their futures may be ruined. Rightfully so. The victim, who's courage to come forward will hopefully be rewarded in life and he and he and his family will find peace. I wonder if there are others at this college whom have suffered in silence??
I have personally been on the campus at Wheaton for sporting events and would never allowed my child to attend this school. My experience was that they appear to be conveniently Christian--when it serves their needs.
Because charges from DuPage County were brought on Monday. Once that hit, the media picked it up. This incident was an unknown event to most of us and by all accounts the local media as well, prior to Monday.
It is incredible to me that LZ has not had one of the offenders miss a game either last year or this year. The parents and offenders should be ashamed, but they aren't. Disgusting, and I live in LZ.
I stuck my neck out on a different thread (before I knew enough about the allegations) and said the blame/responsibility for the LZ situation should ALL be placed on the adults that let it happen - that the kids should not have their high school experienced f'd up. A bunch of people jumped all over me (rightfully so to a certain extent) but thinking that I was soft on punishing kids. Truthfully I didn't know how bad the alleged behavior was.
BUT one of the reasons I said what I did was because I wondered how long the LZ situation had been allowed to happen. According to one post, "over a decade"? So these kids that everyone says should be punished to the max are probably not only today's allegedly guilty parties, but also yesterday's VICTIMS. It doesn't excuse their behavior, but c'mon guys - it's pretty damn tough for a 15 year old kid that gets into a program like this to buck the system. And so when you think about how you'd feel/react if it was your kid who was guilty, think about how much more complicated it would be since they were probably violated in the same way when they were younger.
It is so f'd up - the adults that let it happen should never be involved with youth sports again!
As far as Wheaton, college kids are adults and they should know better and be held to a higher standard. Even if they came from a program like LZ. Adults not minors.
BUT we can't assume they are guilty based on what we get from the media. Charges being filed does not equal guilt.
BUT one of the reasons I said what I did was because I wondered how long the LZ situation had been allowed to happen. According to one post, "over a decade"? So these kids that everyone says should be punished to the max are probably not only today's allegedly guilty parties, but also yesterday's VICTIMS. It doesn't excuse their behavior, but c'mon guys - it's pretty damn tough for a 15 year old kid that gets into a program like this to buck the system. And so when you think about how you'd feel/react if it was your kid who was guilty, think about how much more complicated it would be since they were probably violated in the same way when they were younger.
It is so f'd up - the adults that let it happen should never be involved with youth sports again!
As far as Wheaton, college kids are adults and they should know better and be held to a higher standard. Even if they came from a program like LZ. Adults not minors.
BUT we can't assume they are guilty based on what we get from the media. Charges being filed does not equal guilt.