Head Coach Hires @ South Carolina

[gamecock stock]

Go back in history:

Paul Dietzel: National championship winning coach. Won South Carolina's only conference (ACC) championship; Retired.
Jim Carlen: Won as Head Coach at West Virginia and Texas Tech. When 8 wins in a regular season had never been done at SC and was a psychological barrier, he did it twice, recruited our only Heisman Trophy winner and recruited most of the players, especially offensive line, who went as high as number 2 in the nation in 1984; Fired for NON-football reasons.
Richard Bell: Top assistant to Carlen; but no Head Coaching experience. Fired after one season.
Joe Morrison: Won as Head Coach at UT-Chattanooga and New Mexico. Led South Carolina to its first nationally-ranked seasons (twice in the Top 15). Died
Sparky Woods: Won as a Head Coach (though NOT at a FBS school). Fired after 5 seasons.
Brad Scott: No Head Coaching experience. Offensive Coordinator at national champion FSU; Called by one recruiting source as the best recruiter in the nation. Fired after 5 seasons.
Lou Holtz: Legend. Led SC to 2 Top 20 finishes. Retired
Steve Spurrier: Legend. Led SC to 3 Top 10 finishes. Retired

I can justify everyone of the above hires. But, the only ones who had any notable success in an entire season were Dietzel, Carlen, Morrison, Holtz and Spurrier. What they all had in common was prior success as Head Coaches at FBS schools.

But after Spurrier, what in the world happened?
Will Muschamp: Fired as Head Coach at Florida. What a roll of the dice!!!!!!
Shane Beamer: Never had been an OC nor DC, much less a Head Coach. Why was he hired? OK, some former players did him a favor, at his request, and lobbied for his hire. OK, some thought, even though he was primarily a position coach, they pointed to Dabo being only a position coach before being promoted to Head Coach ("forget" the fact that Dabo was coaching one of the few SEC-type schools in a primarily basketball conference). Undoubtedly, the hope was that they were hiring a young Frank Beamer, ignoring the fact that Frank Beamer proved himself as a Head Coach (at Murray State) prior to being hired by Virginia Tech.

Yes, Ray Tanner deserves a lot of the blame. But, make no mistake about it, the Board of Trustees deserve a lot of the blame, as well. Former players lobbied the Board at the request of and on behalf of Beamer. BOT members whispered in Tanner's ears and they were the ones who pushed to make Tanner as AD.

We mysteriously went off the rails after Spurrier retired.

 

[18IsTheMan]

The common denominator: Tanner. I think that's your answer.

He also famously convinced Spurrier to come back when Spurrier suggested he was probably done. A fateful decision. 2014 was a disappointing season but ended with a bowl win over Miami. Considering our recent string of success, we probably could have pulled in a pretty good candidate to take over. But Tanner convinced Spurrier to come back for that fateful 2015 season, and we still haven't really recovered from it.

His subsequent decisions only compounded that mistake.

 

[Piscis]

Go back in history:

Paul Dietzel: National championship winning coach. Won South Carolina's only conference (ACC) championship; Retired.
Jim Carlen: Won as Head Coach at West Virginia and Texas Tech. When 8 wins in a regular season had never been done at SC and was a psychological barrier, he did it twice, recruited our only Heisman Trophy winner and recruited most of the players, especially offensive line, who went as high as number 2 in the nation in 1984; Fired for NON-football reasons.
Richard Bell: Top assistant to Carlen; but no Head Coaching experience. Fired after one season.
Joe Morrison: Won as Head Coach at UT-Chattanooga and New Mexico. Led South Carolina to its first nationally-ranked seasons (twice in the Top 15). Died
Sparky Woods: Won as a Head Coach (though NOT at a FBS school). Fired after 5 seasons.
Brad Scott: No Head Coaching experience. Offensive Coordinator at national champion FSU; Called by one recruiting source as the best recruiter in the nation. Fired after 5 seasons.
Lou Holtz: Legend. Led SC to 2 Top 20 finishes. Retired
Steve Spurrier: Legend. Led SC to 3 Top 10 finishes. Retired

I can justify everyone of the above hires. But, the only ones who had any notable success in an entire season were Dietzel, Carlen, Morrison, Holtz and Spurrier. What they all had in common was prior success as Head Coaches at FBS schools.

But after Spurrier, what in the world happened?
Will Muschamp: Fired as Head Coach at Florida. What a roll of the dice!!!!!!
Shane Beamer: Never had been an OC nor DC, much less a Head Coach. Why was he hired? OK, some former players did him a favor, at his request, and lobbied for his hire. OK, some thought, even though he was primarily a position coach, they pointed to Dabo being only a position coach before being promoted to Head Coach ("forget" the fact that Dabo was coaching one of the few SEC-type schools in a primarily basketball conference). Undoubtedly, the hope was that they were hiring a young Frank Beamer, ignoring the fact that Frank Beamer proved himself as a Head Coach (at Murray State) prior to being hired by Virginia Tech.

Yes, Ray Tanner deserves a lot of the blame. But, make no mistake about it, the Board of Trustees deserve a lot of the blame, as well. Former players lobbied the Board at the request of and on behalf of Beamer. BOT members whispered in Tanner's ears and they were the ones who pushed to make Tanner as AD.

We mysteriously went off the rails after Spurrier retired.

Spurrier didn't "retire", he quit on the team mid season and left the program in shambles. I can't think of another coach who has simply walked out on a team mid season without some sort of scandal. Spurrier sent a message to the college football world that South Carolina was a loser program that he didn't want to be a part of anymore.

As I recall, after Spurrier, there weren't a ton of coaches knocking on the door for the job. Kirby interviewed and had some interest but "Momma called" and that was that. There was no chance he was missing out on the UGA job to try and build a program at South Carolina. I remember a lot of names being thrown around but, honestly, Muschamp was probably the best option at the time. He was a good recruiter, a defensive minded coach and had HC experience with an 11 win season at UF. He didn't work out but he didn't exactly leave the cupboard bare.

Beamer made no sense at all.

 

[Gradstudent]

, Muschamp was probably the best option at the time.

He was not the best option, should never have been interviewed.

Lane Kiffin was a much better option, but that was only obvious to a few of us on the old message board, and since Tanner did not know much about college football, he went the easy route with Muschamp.

 

[bayrooster]

Spurrier didn't "retire", he quit on the team mid season and left the program in shambles. I can't think of another coach who has simply walked out on a team mid season without some sort of scandal. Spurrier sent a message to the college football world that South Carolina was a loser program that he didn't want to be a part of anymore.

As I recall, after Spurrier, there weren't a ton of coaches knocking on the door for the job. Kirby interviewed and had some interest but "Momma called" and that was that. There was no chance he was missing out on the UGA job to try and build a program at South Carolina. I remember a lot of names being thrown around but, honestly, Muschamp was probably the best option at the time. He was a good recruiter, a defensive minded coach and had HC experience with an 11 win season at UF. He didn't work out but he didn't exactly leave the cupboard bare.

Beamer made no sense at all.

Rather, I think Spurrier sent a message that when you, as a head coach, have mentally checked out and tell the AD you want to retire, don't let that AD talk you into staying another year.

 

[Piscis]

He was not the best option, should never have been interviewed.

Hindsight is 20/20. Who would have been better and would have realistically taken the job? Herman Edwards? I remember his name was popular but he ended up being a bust at AZ State along with all sorts of violations and he said he wasn't interested. Rodriguez? He said "no thanks". Committee said no to Mack Brown and Kiffin. There was talk of Richt, but he had already taken the job with Miami.

The South Carolina job is not a coveted position and Spurrier quitting mid season didn't make it look any better.

 

[Gradstudent]

Hindsight is 20/20. Who would have been better and would have realistically taken the job? Herman Edwards? I remember his name was popular but he ended up being a bust at AZ State along with all sorts of violations and he said he wasn't interested. Rodriguez? He said "no thanks". Committee said no to Mack Brown and Kiffin. There was talk of Richt, but he had already taken the job with Miami.

The South Carolina job is not a coveted position and Spurrier quitting mid season didn't make it look any better.

Its not hindsight, i was a very active poster in 2015 on the old board and one of the ones very vocal on being pro Kiffin, and we should hire him, and got destroyed in comments reacting my posts, LOL, got called drunk and an idiot. The issue with Kiffin back then was his Alshon comments and his failure at Southern Cal and the Raiders, departing after Tenn. after one year, but given the penalties he inherited, he really did not do that bad a job at Southern Cal.

But if you were going to take a chance on a failed candidate he was a much better choice then Muschamp., at the time, imho.

I thought Muschamp's UF teams were generally very poorly coached, and he was not that impressive of a DC at Auburn at his one year in 2015, yes he had the one 11 win year at UF in 2012, the normal "much better second year for a new coach", but then downhill and the other seasons had elements of comedy.

I don't remember to much talk of Herm Edwards, or him being a serious candidate. Initially Tom Herman and Kirby Smart were the candidates pursued the most.

You stated Muschamp was the best option, I said he was not, and provided Kiffin as an example, that I was high on at the time, You don't like that one, since he was not interviewed, fair enough.

I don't remember much about Herm Edwards or Mack Brown, but do remember talk of Matt Campbell and do remember Lincoln Riley was interviewed.

So to say Muschamp was the best option at the time, is not true, he was the option chosen by a AD incompetent at picking the correct football coach.

 

[sclawman77]

Rather, I think Spurrier sent a message that when you, as a head coach, have mentally checked out and tell the AD you want to retire, don't let that AD talk you into staying another year.

I think Lou and Steve came to the same conclusion and mentally checked out at the end though Lou rode it out to the end his last season. What was wild was we were bowl eligible in '04 (Lou's last season) but declined an invite due to the brawl with Clemson that year. Spurrier had clearly built a better program while at Carolina than Lou (though I always say Lou got us on the map with the Outback wins) but hung it up mid-season in 2015 when he saw the direction the team was headed.

 

[sclawman77]

Go back in history:

Paul Dietzel: National championship winning coach. Won South Carolina's only conference (ACC) championship; Retired.
Jim Carlen: Won as Head Coach at West Virginia and Texas Tech. When 8 wins in a regular season had never been done at SC and was a psychological barrier, he did it twice, recruited our only Heisman Trophy winner and recruited most of the players, especially offensive line, who went as high as number 2 in the nation in 1984; Fired for NON-football reasons.
Richard Bell: Top assistant to Carlen; but no Head Coaching experience. Fired after one season.
Joe Morrison: Won as Head Coach at UT-Chattanooga and New Mexico. Led South Carolina to its first nationally-ranked seasons (twice in the Top 15). Died
Sparky Woods: Won as a Head Coach (though NOT at a FBS school). Fired after 5 seasons.
Brad Scott: No Head Coaching experience. Offensive Coordinator at national champion FSU; Called by one recruiting source as the best recruiter in the nation. Fired after 5 seasons.
Lou Holtz: Legend. Led SC to 2 Top 20 finishes. Retired
Steve Spurrier: Legend. Led SC to 3 Top 10 finishes. Retired

I can justify everyone of the above hires. But, the only ones who had any notable success in an entire season were Dietzel, Carlen, Morrison, Holtz and Spurrier. What they all had in common was prior success as Head Coaches at FBS schools.

But after Spurrier, what in the world happened?
Will Muschamp: Fired as Head Coach at Florida. What a roll of the dice!!!!!!
Shane Beamer: Never had been an OC nor DC, much less a Head Coach. Why was he hired? OK, some former players did him a favor, at his request, and lobbied for his hire. OK, some thought, even though he was primarily a position coach, they pointed to Dabo being only a position coach before being promoted to Head Coach ("forget" the fact that Dabo was coaching one of the few SEC-type schools in a primarily basketball conference). Undoubtedly, the hope was that they were hiring a young Frank Beamer, ignoring the fact that Frank Beamer proved himself as a Head Coach (at Murray State) prior to being hired by Virginia Tech.

Yes, Ray Tanner deserves a lot of the blame. But, make no mistake about it, the Board of Trustees deserve a lot of the blame, as well. Former players lobbied the Board at the request of and on behalf of Beamer. BOT members whispered in Tanner's ears and they were the ones who pushed to make Tanner as AD.

We mysteriously went off the rails after Spurrier retired.

Nice summary. Our MO was bringing in former title winning coaches (Dietzel won one at LSU in the '50s) and had some success with that formula with Holtz and Spurrier obviously before Muschamp and Beamer. Dietzel was before my time but I believe he was credited for first using today's fight song and also converting the home field to astroturf. He was coach when my dad was at Carolina. My dad never cared much for Dietzel but liked Carlen and loved Morrison (became a rabid fan during the '84 season and so did his young son). I remember my dad took off from work to attend the Joe Morrison memorial at Williams Brice in '89. They had his casket on display.

 

[HI Cock1]

The common denominator: Tanner. I think that's your answer.

He also famously convinced Spurrier to come back when Spurrier suggested he was probably done. A fateful decision. 2014 was a disappointing season but ended with a bowl win over Miami. Considering our recent string of success, we probably could have pulled in a pretty good candidate to take over. But Tanner convinced Spurrier to come back for that fateful 2015 season, and we still haven't really recovered from it.

His subsequent decisions only compounded that mistake.

I think this is overlooked in the post-Spurrier decline. There weren't a ton of openings that year and taking the reins from Spurrier would have been seen as an honor. That one decision was Ray's worst ever.

 

[Skuddy]

Go back in history:

Paul Dietzel: National championship winning coach. Won South Carolina's only conference (ACC) championship; Retired.
Jim Carlen: Won as Head Coach at West Virginia and Texas Tech. When 8 wins in a regular season had never been done at SC and was a psychological barrier, he did it twice, recruited our only Heisman Trophy winner and recruited most of the players, especially offensive line, who went as high as number 2 in the nation in 1984; Fired for NON-football reasons.
Richard Bell: Top assistant to Carlen; but no Head Coaching experience. Fired after one season.
Joe Morrison: Won as Head Coach at UT-Chattanooga and New Mexico. Led South Carolina to its first nationally-ranked seasons (twice in the Top 15). Died
Sparky Woods: Won as a Head Coach (though NOT at a FBS school). Fired after 5 seasons.
Brad Scott: No Head Coaching experience. Offensive Coordinator at national champion FSU; Called by one recruiting source as the best recruiter in the nation. Fired after 5 seasons.
Lou Holtz: Legend. Led SC to 2 Top 20 finishes. Retired
Steve Spurrier: Legend. Led SC to 3 Top 10 finishes. Retired

I can justify everyone of the above hires. But, the only ones who had any notable success in an entire season were Dietzel, Carlen, Morrison, Holtz and Spurrier. What they all had in common was prior success as Head Coaches at FBS schools.

But after Spurrier, what in the world happened?
Will Muschamp: Fired as Head Coach at Florida. What a roll of the dice!!!!!!
Shane Beamer: Never had been an OC nor DC, much less a Head Coach. Why was he hired? OK, some former players did him a favor, at his request, and lobbied for his hire. OK, some thought, even though he was primarily a position coach, they pointed to Dabo being only a position coach before being promoted to Head Coach ("forget" the fact that Dabo was coaching one of the few SEC-type schools in a primarily basketball conference). Undoubtedly, the hope was that they were hiring a young Frank Beamer, ignoring the fact that Frank Beamer proved himself as a Head Coach (at Murray State) prior to being hired by Virginia Tech.

Yes, Ray Tanner deserves a lot of the blame. But, make no mistake about it, the Board of Trustees deserve a lot of the blame, as well. Former players lobbied the Board at the request of and on behalf of Beamer. BOT members whispered in Tanner's ears and they were the ones who pushed to make Tanner as AD.

We mysteriously went off the rails after Spurrier retired.

I can sort of get my head around the Beamer hire because of Dabo but SEC job is a lot harder than ACC. The Muschamp hire I will never understand. If he can't do it at Florida?

SC, MIss State and Vandy are probably the 3 hardest jobs in the country. We either need a Joe Morrison/Mike Leach type of coach or a living legend type like Saban. Unfortunately, some of those guys expired way too early.

If we go with a coordinator or successful coach from a lower level, how long do we give him?

 

[18IsTheMan]

I can sort of get my head around the Beamer hire because of Dabo but SEC job is a lot harder than ACC. The Muschamp hire I will never understand. If he can't do it at Florida?

SC, MIss State and Vandy are probably the 3 hardest jobs in the country. We either need a Joe Morrison/Mike Leach type of coach or a living legend type like Saban. Unfortunately, some of those guys expired way too early.

If we go with a coordinator or successful coach from a lower level, how long do we give him?

Our job is challenging, but I would, in no way, rank it one of the hardest in the country.

 

[Piscis]

Its not hindsight, i was a very active poster in 2015 on the old board and one of the ones very vocal on being pro Kiffin, and we should hire him, and got destroyed in comments reacting my posts, LOL, got called drunk and an idiot. The issue with Kiffin back then was his Alshon comments and his failure at Southern Cal and the Raiders, departing after Tenn. after one year, but given the penalties he inherited, he really did not do that bad a job at Southern Cal.

But if you were going to take a chance on a failed candidate he was a much better choice then Muschamp., at the time, imho.

I thought Muschamp's UF teams were generally very poorly coached, and he was not that impressive of a DC at Auburn at his one year in 2015, yes he had the one 11 win year at UF in 2012, the normal "much better second year for a new coach", but then downhill and the other seasons had elements of comedy.

I don't remember to much talk of Herm Edwards, or him being a serious candidate. Initially Tom Herman and Kirby Smart were the candidates pursued the most.

You stated Muschamp was the best option, I said he was not, and provided Kiffin as an example, that I was high on at the time, You don't like that one, since he was not interviewed, fair enough.

I don't remember much about Herm Edwards or Mack Brown, but do remember talk of Matt Campbell and do remember Lincoln Riley was interviewed.

So to say Muschamp was the best option at the time, is not true, he was the option chosen by a AD incompetent at picking the correct football coach.

I think Muschamp was the best option that was actually on the table. Kiffin would have been better but we'll never know if he would have taken the job. Kiffin is nothing if not self serving and I'm not sure he would have gone to the s**t show that SC football was at that time. He wanted a job where he could step into a pretty good setup so he was content to bide his time at Bama and rehab his image as an offensive genius. There was no NIL and no portal, he would have known SC was a tough place to recruit to, especially since Clemson was an up and coming program about that time.

 

[Skuddy]

Our job is challenging, but I would, in no way, rank it one of the hardest in the country.

I would say it is easily one of the hardest. Small state that we share with Clemson, SEC, no Nike $, campus in a city, stadium in warehouse district, no winning tradition, coaching graveyard, dumb leadership, schedule always loaded with the BEST of the SEC.

 

[Piscis]

I would say it is easily one of the hardest. Small state that we share with Clemson, SEC, no Nike $, campus in a city, stadium in warehouse district, no winning tradition, coaching graveyard, dumb leadership, schedule always loaded with the BEST of the SEC.

You left out delusional fan base that thinks the program is much better than it is and expects results more consistent with higher rated teams.

It's a tough job, no doubt.

 

[18IsTheMan]

You left out delusional fan base that thinks the program is much better than it is and expects results more consistent with higher rated teams.

It's a tough job, no doubt.

I don't know about that. I think most of our fan base would be ecstatic with regular 8-9 win seasons. We know we aren't competing for titles.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I would say it is easily one of the hardest. Small state that we share with Clemson, SEC, no Nike $, campus in a city, stadium in warehouse district, no winning tradition, coaching graveyard, dumb leadership, schedule always loaded with the BEST of the SEC.

You also have great national exposure, an extremely loyal fan base (maybe to a fault), facilities on par with most other programs, very fertile recruiting area (yes, with stiff competition, but even with our lackluster history, we've always recruited decently well)

 

[Piscis]

I don't know about that. I think most of our fan base would be ecstatic with regular 8-9 win seasons. We know we aren't competing for titles.

I don't know about that. I think most of our fan base would be ecstatic with regular 8-9 win seasons. We know we aren't competing for titles.

YOU know they aren't competing for titles. A lot of the fans are convinced we are winning a championship every August. Other fan bases regularly mock us as the team with the most "August National Championships". There was nothing but playoff talk starting last November. "Hottest team in the country" talk was everywhere at the end of last season. The truth was, any of the playoff teams would have absolutely destroyed us last year.

 

[Lurker123]

I can sort of get my head around the Beamer hire because of Dabo but SEC job is a lot harder than ACC. The Muschamp hire I will never understand. If he can't do it at Florida?

SC, MIss State and Vandy are probably the 3 hardest jobs in the country. We either need a Joe Morrison/Mike Leach type of coach or a living legend type like Saban. Unfortunately, some of those guys expired way too early.

If we go with a coordinator or successful coach from a lower level, how long do we give him?

I still cant wrap my head around the Beamer hire. I understand the "he might be our Dabo" reasoning, i just think it was terrible thinking.

My vote is the coach from a lower level. And as for how long to give him? The average for college football was around 4 years, so I'd say 5 years is plenty. And then go from there based on results.

 

[gamecock stock]

Our job is challenging, but I would, in no way, rank it one of the hardest in the country.

It's no more difficult than Ole Miss and Missouri. The difference is that Ole Miss and Missouri hired quality Head Coaches who at least had shown that they could "coach", as Head Coaches. And guess what? We have hired quality Head Coaches in the past who had shown they could "coach" as Head Coaches and, they succeeded here. Jim Carlen produced nationally ranked teams at 2 different schools prior to hiring him. But, he was fired for NON-football reasons by Holderman. Joe Morrison won at 2 different schools prior to hiring him. But he died. No one knows for sure what the outcome of the steroid situation would have been. The point is that you can win in football at this school if you hire PROVEN, SUCCESSFUL Head Coaches. But, if you roll the dice on a proven failure of a Head Coach or someone who has not been thought highly enough to have been made a Head Coach before, ...................

 

[Piscis]

I still cant wrap my head around the Beamer hire. I understand the "he might be our Dabo" reasoning, i just think it was terrible thinking.

My vote is the coach from a lower level. And as for how long to give him? The average for college football was around 4 years, so I'd say 5 years is plenty. And then go from there based on results.

Get a G5 head coach, give him a 5 year contract with performance bonuses, DO NOT give him a crazy raise and extension after he has one good season, if things are going well (7-9 win seasons) after year 3, give him a nice raise and extension. If he starts hinting about leaving, wish him well.

 

[gamecock stock]

I would say it is easily one of the hardest. Small state that we share with Clemson, SEC, no Nike $, campus in a city, stadium in warehouse district, no winning tradition, coaching graveyard, dumb leadership, schedule always loaded with the BEST of the SEC.

Our population is nearly twice that of Mississippi and less than million smaller that Missouri.

 

[sclawman77]

Get a G5 head coach, give him a 5 year contract with performance bonuses, DO NOT give him a crazy raise and extension after he has one good season, if things are going well (7-9 win seasons) after year 3, give him a nice raise and extension. If he starts hinting about leaving, wish him well.

Agents and coaches used to demand 5 year deals they claimed to show a commitment to players and recruits-and guarantee more personal wealth. But those days have obviously changed.

 

[sclawman77]

YOU know they aren't competing for titles. A lot of the fans are convinced we are winning a championship every August. Other fan bases regularly mock us as the team with the most "August National Championships". There was nothing but playoff talk starting last November. "Hottest team in the country" talk was everywhere at the end of last season. The truth was, any of the playoff teams would have absolutely destroyed us last year.

I think most were hoping to make the playoffs. Considering we almost did last year and were preseason #11, it wasn't an unrealistic expectation. I don't know a single Carolina fan that was expecting to win the national title this season but would have been very happy to be in contention in the playoff.

 

[Skuddy]

Our population is nearly twice that of Mississippi and less than million smaller that Missouri.

Which shows just how tough the USC job is when you look at the success those two schools have historically had compared to us. We haven't ever been to a big bowl. They have more tradition which isn't hard to do.

 

[Piscis]

It's no more difficult than Ole Miss and Missouri. The difference is that Ole Miss and Missouri hired quality Head Coaches who at least had shown that they could "coach", as Head Coaches. And guess what? We have hired quality Head Coaches in the past who had shown they could "coach" as Head Coaches and, they succeeded here. Jim Carlen produced nationally ranked teams at 2 different schools prior to hiring him. But, he was fired for NON-football reasons by Holderman. Joe Morrison won at 2 different schools prior to hiring him. But he died. No one knows for sure what the outcome of the steroid situation would have been. The point is that you can win in football at this school if you hire PROVEN, SUCCESSFUL Head Coaches. But, if you roll the dice on a proven failure of a Head Coach or someone who has not been thought highly enough to have been made a Head Coach before, ...................

Carlen had 2 8 win seasons, 2 6 win seasons, 2 5 win seasons and 1 7 win season. He was OK but he wasn't a big winner.

Joe was a good coach but he had 1 10 win season, 2 8 win seasons, 2 5 win seasons and a 3 win season. Again, good(ish) but not great.

I guess if averaging 6 wins is "good", yes they were good. Spurrier averaged 8+ wins per season and he is pretty much the GOAT at SC. Take out the three 11 win seasons and Spurrier averaged about 6.5 wins per season.

I say hire a successful G5 head coach who is relatively young. He will have the energy and the experience as a head coach to know how to run the show.

 

[gamecock stock]

Its not hindsight, i was a very active poster in 2015 on the old board and one of the ones very vocal on being pro Kiffin, and we should hire him, and got destroyed in comments reacting my posts, LOL, got called drunk and an idiot. The issue with Kiffin back then was his Alshon comments and his failure at Southern Cal and the Raiders, departing after Tenn. after one year, but given the penalties he inherited, he really did not do that bad a job at Southern Cal.

But if you were going to take a chance on a failed candidate he was a much better choice then Muschamp., at the time, imho.

I thought Muschamp's UF teams were generally very poorly coached, and he was not that impressive of a DC at Auburn at his one year in 2015, yes he had the one 11 win year at UF in 2012, the normal "much better second year for a new coach", but then downhill and the other seasons had elements of comedy.

I don't remember to much talk of Herm Edwards, or him being a serious candidate. Initially Tom Herman and Kirby Smart were the candidates pursued the most.

You stated Muschamp was the best option, I said he was not, and provided Kiffin as an example, that I was high on at the time, You don't like that one, since he was not interviewed, fair enough.

I don't remember much about Herm Edwards or Mack Brown, but do remember talk of Matt Campbell and do remember Lincoln Riley was interviewed.

So to say Muschamp was the best option at the time, is not true, he was the option chosen by a AD incompetent at picking the correct football coach.

Florida fans laughed at us when we hired Muschamp. It was about as humiliating as Saturday's meltdown against the Aggies.

 

[Piscis]

Florida fans laughed at us when we hired Muschamp. It was about as humiliating as Saturday's meltdown against the Aggies.

I remember plenty of SC fans laughing at UGA when they hired Kirby and saying they would rather have Muschamp because he had head coach experience.

You never really know what is going to happen.

 

[sclawman77]

Florida fans laughed at us when we hired Muschamp. It was about as humiliating as Saturday's meltdown against the Aggies.

Right. What made it an even wilder was we officially got Muschamp fired by beating them in OT in the swamp the year before in 2014.

 

[gamecock stock]

Carlen had 2 8 win seasons, 2 6 win seasons, 2 5 win seasons and 1 7 win season. He was OK but he wasn't a big winner.

Joe was a good coach but he had 1 10 win season, 2 8 win seasons, 2 5 win seasons and a 3 win season. Again, good(ish) but not great.

I guess if averaging 6 wins is "good", yes they were good. Spurrier averaged 8+ wins per season and he is pretty much the GOAT at SC. Take out the three 11 win seasons and Spurrier averaged about 6.5 wins per season.

I say hire a successful G5 head coach who is relatively young. He will have the energy and the experience as a head coach to know how to run the show.

You have to remember that winning more than 7 games in one season was a HUGE psychological barrier in Gamecock land back then. Carlen got it done twice. And he recruited most of the players on that 1984 "Black Magic" team and, of course, recruited our only Heisman Trophy winner prior to that, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that if not for Jim Holderman, Carlen would have made SC a national power in the 1980s and 90s.

Morrison led us to our first nationally-ranked seasons (both Top 15).

I would say find a successful sub-P4 Head Coach at the FBS level if you can't get a Scott Satterfield or Jake Dickert.

I'm not saying we can hire a Head Coach to win the NC or even the SEC. But we can hire a Head Coach who can produce nationally Top 20 years more often that not.

 

[gamecock stock]

I remember plenty of SC fans laughing at UGA when they hired Kirby and saying they would rather have Muschamp because he had head coach experience.

You never really know what is going to happen.

Well, OK. But I saw what Muschamp's Head Coach experience produced. Kirby Smart was a blank page.

 

[sclawman77]

You have to remember that winning more than 7 games in one season was a HUGE psychological barrier in Gamecock land back then. Carlen got it done twice. And he recruited most of the players on that 1984 "Black Magic" team and, of course, recruited our only Heisman Trophy winner prior to that, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that if not for Jim Holderman, Carlen would have made SC a national power in the 1980s and 90s.

Morrison led us to our first nationally-ranked seasons (both Top 15).

I would say find a successful sub-P4 Head Coach at the FBS level if you can't get a Scott Satterfield or Jake Dickert.

I'm not saying we can hire a Head Coach to win the NC or even the SEC. But we can hire a Head Coach who can produce nationally Top 20 years more often that not.

JoMo may have not had the greatest average wins per season but '84 (even though it didn't end like we wanted) is a season that helped make Joe very popular with the fans-more so than previous coaches.

 

[gamecock stock]

Which shows just how tough the USC job is when you look at the success those two schools have historically had compared to us. We haven't ever been to a big bowl. They have more tradition which isn't hard to do.

It is tough. That's why I have always said our ceiling is to make the Top 20. Winning the NC and even the SEC is not in the picture.

 

[Piscis]

You have to remember that winning more than 7 games in one season was a HUGE psychological barrier in Gamecock land back then. Carlen got it done twice. And he recruited most of the players on that 1984 "Black Magic" team and, of course, recruited our only Heisman Trophy winner prior to that, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that if not for Jim Holderman, Carlen would have made SC a national power in the 1980s and 90s.

Morrison led us to our first nationally-ranked seasons (both Top 15).

I would say find a successful sub-P4 Head Coach at the FBS level if you can't get a Scott Satterfield or Jake Dickert.

I'm not saying we can hire a Head Coach to win the NC or even the SEC. But we can hire a Head Coach who can produce nationally Top 20 years more often that not.

I think finishing the season ranked is a reasonable expectation. Get to the point of winning 8 games a season and eventually there will be a magic season where 10 or 11 wins happens.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

We all have been asking the same question(s) why did Tanner hire SB, perhaps the better question would be (and we will never get the true answer).
1. What or who pointed you in the direction of SB in the first place ?
2. How many other candidates were looked at, how many of those where interviewed ?
3. What was it about SB, that made him stand out above all the others, and led you to believe that you could entrust him with one sport that generates the most income for the Athletic Department.

 

[Lurker123]

You have to remember that winning more than 7 games in one season was a HUGE psychological barrier in Gamecock land back then. Carlen got it done twice. And he recruited most of the players on that 1984 "Black Magic" team and, of course, recruited our only Heisman Trophy winner prior to that, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that if not for Jim Holderman, Carlen would have made SC a national power in the 1980s and 90s.

Morrison led us to our first nationally-ranked seasons (both Top 15).

I would say find a successful sub-P4 Head Coach at the FBS level if you can't get a Scott Satterfield or Jake Dickert.

I'm not saying we can hire a Head Coach to win the NC or even the SEC. But we can hire a Head Coach who can produce nationally Top 20 years more often that not.

Also remember that a lot of those records were during an 11 game season.

 

[gamecock stock]

Also remember that a lot of those records were during an 11 game season.

Yes. I'm old enough to remember when we played only 10 games per regular season.

The current Georgia Tech coach reminds me of Carlen. It won't shock me if some SEC school steals Key.

 

[CreekSnake]

Spurrier didn't "retire", he quit on the team mid season and left the program in shambles. I can't think of another coach who has simply walked out on a team mid season without some sort of scandal. Spurrier sent a message to the college football world that South Carolina was a loser program that he didn't want to be a part of anymore.

As I recall, after Spurrier, there weren't a ton of coaches knocking on the door for the job. Kirby interviewed and had some interest but "Momma called" and that was that. There was no chance he was missing out on the UGA job to try and build a program at South Carolina. I remember a lot of names being thrown around but, honestly, Muschamp was probably the best option at the time. He was a good recruiter, a defensive minded coach and had HC experience with an 11 win season at UF. He didn't work out but he didn't exactly leave the cupboard bare.

Beamer made no sense at all.

Spurrier would be the first to say he wished he had handled his exit from Carolina differently.He should not have let Tanner talk him into staying.
Bobby Ross was the toughest coach I have ever been around but he ran out of gas during his last year coaching the Lions and exited at mid season.He said he just didn’t have the energy to give the job what it took and he stepped aside thinking a younger assistant might give his team a shot of energy.
Carolina fans will forever be bitter but for the rest of the football world it didn’t detract from his career.Bottom line.Another Tanner screwup,

 

[Legal_fowl]

Its not hindsight, i was a very active poster in 2015 on the old board and one of the ones very vocal on being pro Kiffin, and we should hire him, and got destroyed in comments reacting my posts, LOL, got called drunk and an idiot. The issue with Kiffin back then was his Alshon comments and his failure at Southern Cal and the Raiders, departing after Tenn. after one year, but given the penalties he inherited, he really did not do that bad a job at Southern Cal.

But if you were going to take a chance on a failed candidate he was a much better choice then Muschamp., at the time, imho.

I thought Muschamp's UF teams were generally very poorly coached, and he was not that impressive of a DC at Auburn at his one year in 2015, yes he had the one 11 win year at UF in 2012, the normal "much better second year for a new coach", but then downhill and the other seasons had elements of comedy.

I don't remember to much talk of Herm Edwards, or him being a serious candidate. Initially Tom Herman and Kirby Smart were the candidates pursued the most.

You stated Muschamp was the best option, I said he was not, and provided Kiffin as an example, that I was high on at the time, You don't like that one, since he was not interviewed, fair enough.

I don't remember much about Herm Edwards or Mack Brown, but do remember talk of Matt Campbell and do remember Lincoln Riley was interviewed.

So to say Muschamp was the best option at the time, is not true, he was the option chosen by a AD incompetent at picking the correct football coach.

I don't remember Herm Edwards, but I remember the rest. We had choices and I remember being puzzled when Muschamp's name came up. I was totally on board with Tom Herman but he played us claiming the loss to the Citadel that year changed his mind.

Is the "old board" Palmetto State Rivals? (PSR)

 

[Legal_fowl]

Our job is challenging, but I would, in no way, rank it one of the hardest in the country.

People felt that way about Indiana and look at them now. It just takes the right coach.