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Heads explode at IHSA

tmjgrady

tmjgrady

Senior
Oct 5, 2015
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No Bias---Just Reality said:
You're right... one example! See my prior response to USD24
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of course it is 1 example - I get it from a statistics POV, but I have been around long enough to know that Private schools equal or exceed the following - and attendance - than that of Public schools. I think there is a stronger sense of connection to a school in the private sector - my opinion.
 
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No Bias---Just Reality

Senior
Sep 24, 2009
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tmjgrady said:
of course it is 1 example - I get it from a statistics POV, but I have been around long enough to know that Private schools equal or exceed the following - and attendance - than that of Public schools. I think there is a stronger sense of connection to a school in the private sector - my opinion.
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If you read my reply to USD24 you know I talked about that connection on the private side. And while the public/private games are rare in the regular season...if you are talking about a 5a private facing off against a 4/5/6a public its fully possible the private crowd will be larger but thats because the student populations are somewhat similar to start and then the private following kicks in... but the premise of this argument is the bumping up of privates to larger classes to help attendance... and when a 5a plays a 7a (or larger) in a playoff game (especially late like the semis or the title game) the public 7a turnout is going to well surpass that of the small private school.
 
tmjgrady

tmjgrady

Senior
Oct 5, 2015
459
475
63
No Bias---Just Reality said:
If you read my reply to USD24 you know I talked about that connection on the private side. And while the public/private games are rare in the regular season...if you are talking about a 5a private facing off against a 4/5/6a public its fully possible the private crowd will be larger but thats because the student populations are somewhat similar to start and then the private following kicks in... but the premise of this argument is the bumping up of privates to larger classes to help attendance... and when a 5a plays a 7a (or larger) in a playoff game (especially late like the semis or the title game) the public 7a turnout is going to well surpass that of the small private school.
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got it - sometimes conversations here go a bit sideways and we all may interpret the argument a bit differently - just trying to engage in some football talk on the eve of the eve of the eve of semi-final Saturday! BTW GO Griffins! Go Redhawks! (1 Public and 1 Private). Now I need to go back to racking my brain out on which game to go to
 
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U

USD24

All-American
May 29, 2001
5,498
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No Bias---Just Reality said:
I have a feeling this is one of those we are going to have to agree to disagree on but...

1. You can't cherry pick specific games here and there and prove your point in this one... I am speaking generally.

2. I was refuting someone who thought maybe the IHSA was spreading out privates in the playoffs to help draw better. So since we are talking about playoffs the public's are likely good to great... we are not talking about Proviso East here.... (no shot at PE intended) I mention that since you talked about quality of program in your factors which obviously applies to both public and private programs.

3. I will not argue that many privates out draw publics on a "proportional basis" but not on a raw number basis. In other words, JCA draws a huge number for a school with 626 kids but that doesn't mean they get more in pure raw numbers than Batavia with their 2,000 kids. You following me on that?

4. I assure you the example I used of Batavia vs SCN would have more total people there (tickets sold) than if Nazareth and Mt Carmel met. It's a pure numbers game 2000 students each vs 750 and 600 students, which extrapolates to more family/friends, more faculty/staff, more alumni, and so on. Granted there is a unique factor in that SCN was founded in 2000 limiting the alumni and even LWE which was founded in the 70's I think and doesn't represent a town but an area which I find always hurts the following compared to a Batavia situation where it is very town/community specific. But these are outlier situations. Will Brother Rice vs Marist be a huge game? Likely but there again thats a special game and outlier. If OPRF had a home playoff game Friday and so did Fenwick... OPRF would have a larger crowd. It's just a fact.

The long and short of it is that I agree that Privates often have a more "loyal" or "rabid" fan base that doesn't miss a game because of bad weather but if the IHSA bumps Nazareth to 7a they are losing ticket sales in a 7a game compared to a true 7a school. 100% of the student body at Naz showing up is 750, if SCN got 50% there that's 1,000 and that doesn't include the aforementioned extrapolation of people that come with the larger student body. And that was the guys assertion, that it would help ticket sales.
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I do understand what you are saying, just dont know if I completely agree. I am only going on the games which I have attended over the years.

But you did cherry pick a specific game (Batavia vs SCN). Another example you provided was if OPRF and Fenwick had home playoff games, OPRF would have more fans. I would counter that with if JCA and Joliet West had home playoff games, JCA would outdraw West 2 to 1.

My argument is that the fan base is more effected by different factors than being public or private. Tradition, strength of program, size of school, community involvement. None of these are exclusive to being public or private.

This year I attended 2 5A playoff games and an 8A playoff game. The 8A playoff game consisted of 2 huge public schools. The 5A game was a private school and a public school. The 5A game had considerably more fans.
 
N

No Bias---Just Reality

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Sep 24, 2009
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USD24 said:
But you did cherry pick a specific game (Batavia vs SCN). Another example you provided was if OPRF and Fenwick had home playoff games, OPRF would have more fans. I would counter that with if JCA and Joliet West had home playoff games, JCA would outdraw West 2 to 1.

My argument is that the fan base is more effected by different factors than being public or private. Tradition, strength of program, size of school, community involvement. None of these are exclusive to being public or private.

This year I attended 2 5A playoff games and an 8A playoff game. The 8A playoff game consisted of 2 huge public schools. The 5A game was a private school and a public school. The 5A game had considerably more fans.
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You trying to win this by wearing out my fingers? Good strategy!

But... I cherry picked Batavia/SCN vs Naz/MC because its a real life example of how the IHSA would be a financial loser (in terms of ticket sales) if the person who got this started was right about why they are spreading out privates. (Hes probably laughing at this back and forth now). And I don't know because I wasn't there and I don't know all of the teams/venues/mitigating circumstances of the games you were referring to attending this year... but you have to consider the possibility that maybe the big school games were in bigger venues with more seating and it looked/felt more empty while the 5a games may have been in smaller stadiums with less seating and that made it feel more full... I suppose you will now tell me the 5a games were in big old Joliet Memorial Stadium but if not my premise may hold.

The End.
 
N

No Bias---Just Reality

Senior
Sep 24, 2009
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USD24 said:
I do understand what you are saying, just dont know if I completely agree. I am only going on the games which I have attended over the years.

But you did cherry pick a specific game (Batavia vs SCN). Another example you provided was if OPRF and Fenwick had home playoff games, OPRF would have more fans. I would counter that with if JCA and Joliet West had home playoff games, JCA would outdraw West 2 to 1.

My argument is that the fan base is more effected by different factors than being public or private. Tradition, strength of program, size of school, community involvement. None of these are exclusive to being public or private.

This year I attended 2 5A playoff games and an 8A playoff game. The 8A playoff game consisted of 2 huge public schools. The 5A game was a private school and a public school. The 5A game had considerably more fans.
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To add a P.S. to my last post.... you will have gotten this if you read my latest reply to tmjgrady..... we are talking specifically about playoff games (not regular season games) and situations where small privates are bumped up to larger classes. So all I am saying is if this weekend a 5a private is playing a semifinal game against a 7a public the IHSA would have likely sold more tickets to an opposing good (semifinal caliber) 7a opponent instead of a bumped up 5a private.
 
4

4Anorth(not4aFan)

Senior
May 29, 2001
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why I would hope a school 2 to 3 times the enrollment would sell more tickets this late in the playoffs depending on a matchup the smaller schools attendance might surprise many.Look at 2001 Riverside Brookfield vs JCA or 2005 Morris vs JCA or for that matter any of the JCA/Morris matchups at Joliet or Morris in the playoffs.In 2005 you had 2 schools playing in 6A(football enrollment) and there were over 7000 people there.And it just wasn't Morris and JCA Fans...I remember seeing kids in Metamora jackets,Geneseo jackets,Coal City jackets,Wilmington etc.Not a bad showing for 2 schools who had a combined enrollment of about 1600.I think the IHSA was pleased that night and that night in 2001 when JCA played RB.
 
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markmacaluso

All-Conference
Aug 19, 2018
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USD24 said:
Conant at Hinsdale Central
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USD24 said:
What would draw more fans, Mr Carmel vs Joliet Catholic or Hinsdale Central vs Waubonsee Valley? I have been to both those games and there were 3x the fans at the private school game.
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Dude you are gonna get Voodoo riled up if your drag WV into this. And then I'm going to have to back his *** up so....
 
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Voodoo Tatum 21

All-Conference
May 18, 2016
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USD24 said:
I was referring to the HC/WV playoff game last year. Not a very big crowd
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It was 2016 I think and I was there as well.

Agreed crowd pitiful for both teams.

Game was at HC - but went to a very good bar/restaurant in their little downtown area before the game. Very solid. Can’t remember the name of it.

On a side note - I severely dislike Saturday games.
 
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LTHSALUM76

All-Conference
Aug 27, 2014
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No Bias---Just Reality said:
You do realize private schools have smaller followings than public’s right? Ever seen the stadiums and seating at each? Obviously not!
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The size of their stadiums has nothing to do with Thanksgiving at NIU. It is about which programs travel well. Maybe I am spoiled with, Providence, JCA and MC because we know their followings are outstanding. I would guess Loyola travels well and maybe BR will. I do know this much. HF is ranked every year and many times find themselves in the top 10. Yet, they travel horribly. Lockport traveled well when they had good teams.
 
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wasdo

Sophomore
Nov 1, 2004
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Wassup13 said:
Loyola
Brother Rice
Naz
JCA
Montini
IC
Bishop Mac

Did I miss anybody?

St Cary Grove??
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No, you did good ,,,,has anyone ever remember if any other time that 3 teams from the same conference went to the state final game ???
 
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Ogre5530

Redshirt
Apr 23, 2006
433
24
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I thought there would be more chatter about all the catholic schools playing in the title game. No thread about it???
 
P

PanthersWildcats86

Senior
Oct 12, 2017
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wasdo said:
Is Crete a catholic school,that's in a Catholic area?
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Crete-Monee is an interesting public school...when it was originally consolidated, Crete was the "big" town on the east side of the district, and Monee was the "big" town on the west. In the middle was Park Forest South, now University Park...UPark now generates more kids than Crete & Monee...There are at least three feeder youth programs in the district, one for each town, and at one point there were at least four feeders...CM greatly benefits from being a good sized 6A school in a conference of otherwise 5A schools....

Illinois Lutheran is a small private school in Crete, plays in the River Valley Conference with the Kankakee area non-football schools...Kids going to Catholic schools split a bunch of ways - Crete/east usually to Marion, west end some to McNamara, Providence...
 
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