Help me understand: MSU's running game was supposed to suffer

[gravedigger]

from 2009 to 2010 because we lost one of the best running backs in the conference in Dixon.

Matter of fact it was often asked, "how on earth can you think that MSU's running game will be BETTER without him?"

Fast forward one year.

Ole Miss' offensive line, that couldnt protect one of the most mobile, athletic quarterbacks in the country because it was either too crappy (early accusation after the debacle vs Jax St) or too depleted (later accusation once injuries had taken their toll), is now going to be not just good but 17ing damn good because it nowhas experience.

I have one question.

<font size="7">EXPERIENCE AT 17ing WHAT ?

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[gravedigger]

from 2009 to 2010 because we lost one of the best running backs in the conference in Dixon.

Matter of fact it was often asked, "how on earth can you think that MSU's running game will be BETTER without him?"

Fast forward one year.

Ole Miss' offensive line, that couldnt protect one of the most mobile, athletic quarterbacks in the country because it was either too crappy (early accusation after the debacle vs Jax St) or too depleted (later accusation once injuries had taken their toll), is now going to be not just good but 17ing damn good because it nowhas experience.

I have one question.

<font size="7">EXPERIENCE AT 17ing WHAT ?

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[dawgstudent]

of course - there were different coaches and different scheme but Quentin Saulsberry from 2008 to 2009 was night and day. It's amazing what a year will do for you.

 

[monkey11508.sixpack]

_

 

[gravedigger]

<font size="4">to it is a load of crap in the absence of some indication that it was improving.

It is an ingredient, not a recipe.

They have a positive experience from 2 years ago when there were multiple offensive weapons.
They have a negative experience from last year with few weapons but one pretty good qb and one pretty good rb.

Now, they have no experience at qb and the same good rb.

I just dont see where experience is going to matter to their line. Teams are going to load the box and outnumber them until they prove their passing game is the hidden gem.

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[War Machine Dawg]

First and foremost, Saulsberry was being played out of position in '08. Everyone knew that. In '09, he was moved inside to guard, where he belonged. Plus, when you watched him in '08, it wasn't a lack of effort problem. He was always hustling, always around the pile. He was clearly putting himself in position to make plays. But Crxxms & Wxxdy were asking him to do things he simply wasn't capable of doing. That's on the coaches. Experience doesn't help that. If Saulsberry had stayed outside, he might have been decent there in '09, but he's a legit NFL prospect inside at G/C.

The same can't be said for Mississippi's OL. The only good OL they have, in my opinion, is Massie. Sowell went from awful to barely decent last season. But I still wouldn't call him good. And no one on that OL was playing out of position. They were being asked to do things they *should* have been capable of doing, but were unable to do them. That's not a coaching/experience issue. That's a talent issue.

And as gravedigger pointed out, we changed OL coaches from Grimes to Hevesy. Anyone really want to argue that didn't make a huge difference for our OL? Meanwhille, Mississippi is still going to have the same coaches. I just don't see that OL improving very much.

 

[dawgstudent]

getting abused in the 2008 Egg Bowl. That line had Brignone(I think), Saulsberry, and Sherrod. That was the worst OL performance I have ever seen. It also had to do with Ole Miss's DL but it was ridiculous.

 

[RebelBruiser]

I'll say it again for you.

Last year we had 0 scholarship seniors and 3 scholarship juniors on our roster at the OL positions. We had a combined total of 18 starts worth of experience on our entire OL going into the season (13 for Sowell and 5 for Massie). That was it. There isn't a group of O-linemen in the SEC that you could throw out there with that amount of experience and get much from them.

There just isn't. We played a load of freshmen and sophomores last year on the OL, and not only that we had injuries up front and started 11 different players at one point or another during the season.

Of course, everyone is back this year. Our problem last year on the OL was not talent. It wasn't coaching. It was experience, plain and simple. I know you don't want to think we might actually have an area of the team that will be better than god awful, but our OL should be a whole lot better this fall.

Phil Steele always makes note of teams that have 100 combines OL starts on their roster, not how talented a group is, but how many starts they have, because that's usually a better indicator of how good you are going to be up front.

By the way, you say teams are going to load the box against us, what's going to stop them from doing the same thing to you, and how were you able to run the ball so well last year when teams were stacking the box against you?

 

[Dental Dawg]

Not because he makes a strong case in this argument.
I think he is right, because he uses three different font sizes to make his argument.

 

[EAVdog]

Bama and LSU pretty much shut down our running game which shut down our entire Offense. I think your O Line will be pretty good. Y'all had a lot of injuries last year and had to reach pretty deep down the roster to fill in some games. Which as you know if why you played so many different players. I think you have 3 very solid Lineman in Massie, Sowell, and Hawkins. The other 7 or so guys seem interchangable to me. But I'm just an outside observer and I don't claim to be an expert on your roster.

What's the line going to look like next year?

 

[Johnson85]

<font size="4">I just dont see where experience is going to matter to their line. Teams are going to load the box and outnumber them until they prove their passing game is the hidden gem.
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For whatever reason, OL seems to be the positionwhere age (not just experience) matters most. You see freshmenrunning backs and wide receivers step in andbe good immediately.Yourarely see freshmen OL that are worth anything.I think youneed to be so big to be an SEC lineman now,it takes the typical Highschool lineman more than two years after highschool to get his body prepared.You either have the guy that already has the size, but isnot strong and simply relied on his size in highschool (Damien Robinson maybe?), or you have the athlete that is already 6'4" and muscular, but has to fill out his frame with 30-50lbs of muscle.UM's line's jump probably won't be as big as MSU's was (as part of MSU's jump was due to a major upgrade at OL coach and strength coach), but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to make a big jump, especially since they were mostly effective at running the ball last year.

 

[coach66]

feel for it at the BYU game. BYU probably isn't a great defense but they aren't chopped liver either so if Ole Miss o-line handles them pretty well then I think it is a good indication of where they are and what the prospects are for the year.

 

[RebelBruiser]

We also added Matt Hall, the transfer from Arkansas who played in 11 games as a redshirt freshman for Arkansas, and I think he's solid along with Sowell, Massie, and Hawkins. Right now, the 5th OL spot is the only one up for grabs, but fortunately it's a guard position (least critical OL spot I believe), and we do have a number of guys who have starting experience fighting for the spot (Junen, Duke, Clair, Swindall, Washington).

In 2012, we lose Sowell, Washington, and Clair for sure. Massie could potentially leave early for the draft, but if he doesn't, it'll pretty much just be Sowell that we're replacing up front. The other spots should still be strong. Replacing a LT is never easy, but if McCray can step up then we should be good up front again in 2012. I hope they get McCray a good bit of action this year whether it's at guard or in mop up time at LT, because we need him to be ready more than anything for 2012.

 

[olemissbydamn]

I'm not going to point out the obvious things that others have, but I will say that we were the third best rushing team in the league and gave up the fewest sacks. That happened with a constantly changing situation at guard. Lots of experience there as a result now. We return all of our starters.

Throwing young people in the fire isn't a recipe for success. But just like with Orgeron's players, it prepares them for the future. As pointed out by DS and others, look at the drastic improvement your young linemen made from 2008 to 2010. Much of that was a result of experience in the trenches.

Our offense was right there with yours in the league last season. Our offensive problem was turnovers and the lack of playmakers at WR.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/...ats/2010000000911TD.HTML

 

[Dental Dawg]

<span style="text-decoration:line-through"></span>Masoli was <span style="text-decoration:line-through">running for his life all season long</span> running like he stole something all season long. I do think your O line will be much better this year.

 

[olemissbydamn]

You had a mobile QB too. AU did. LSU did. Vandy did. SC did.

 

[patdog]

The guy was a legitimate Heisman Trophy candidate before he screwed up at Oregon. Not all that much of a passer (adequate but not much better than that), but he was one of the best scramblers I've seen.

 

[RebelBruiser]

and I don't really buy the sack argument anyway because so much of that is dependent on your style of offense and/or your QB, not your OL.

Eli, for instance, was not mobile at all, and he was in an offense that allowed potential for sacks due to pass plays requiring him to read through progressions, but he didn't take many sacks because he had good pocket presence and knew when to get out of the pocket and throw it away.

A Mike Leach style offense doesn't allow for many sacks despite the number of passes thrown because usually the ball is released quickly based off pre-snap reads.

So, I don't look at those stats all that much. We should have a solid OL this year because we have a lot of experience returning and good players who have had some chance to gel as a unit. Stats be damned. Likewise, I'm curious to see how your line comes together after losing your best lineman (Sherrod) and your center, the two most important players off your OL last year. You're moving someone over to center that didn't play there last year, and you're moving a former DT to LT. That's a lot of inexperience at important spots. It could work out, but usually it takes time for OL to gel as a unit, and with big moves like that, it could be difficult, especially considering you're a very run heavy offense.

 

[patdog]

Saulsbury HAS played there and has started a game or two there. We really won't miss a beat at center. I just hope Coach34 is a lot more right about our LT situation than you and I are. Really the only good thing I can say about our LT position is it looks like the other 10 positions on offense are going to be pretty good so we should be able to hide that weakness a little better than most teams could. I think we'll score 30 points per game even with a weak LT.

 

[KurtRambis4]

*

 

[FlabLoser]

....is the TSUN OL going to be when nobody has to respect the pass?

 

[Todd4State]

I really hope teams put nine-ten in the box against us. Bumphis, Heavens, and Green will have field days if teams do that.

 

[War Machine Dawg]

[No message]

 

[RebelBruiser]

And everyone is just assuming that our QBs, that most people have never seen play before, can't throw the ball. Not saying they'll be great but just because we're expecting to be able to run the ball well doesn't mean we won't have the ability to loosen up a defense. I think that's quite the assumption.

I still don't see Relf as much of a passing threat by the way, and I don't think much of your competition will either. He had his three best passing games of the year at the end of the season last year. Time will tell if he can carry that over to this season. Prior to those 3 games, he had 5 straight games where he completed 50% or fewer of his passes and you went so run heavy that he never attempted even 20 throws in any one of those games. Point being, I'm not sold on "Relf can throw the ball" quite yet.

 

[dawgstudent]

won't be much of a threat.

It makes a lot more sense to write off your QB situation than ours except of course looking at it from the view of an Ole Miss fan.

 

[RebelBruiser]

There have been plenty of first year starters to come into the SEC and offer at least some semblance of a passing threat. It would be one thing if we were returning Michael Spurlock and Ethan Flatt as our only QB options and you knew exactly what they were going to give us.

It's just funny to me that it's assumed that our QBs throw the ball like special needs kids, just because no one has seen them yet AND more importantly they play for Ole Miss. If we're 4 games in and rotating QBs between guys that can't manage to complete 50% of their passes, then it's fair to assume teams are going to stack the box against us. I would bet that BYU won't be completely overloading on the run without knowing what type of passers we have under center.

I have no clue how good or bad our QBs will be. I feel confident we'll be able to run the ball, but our passing game is a question mark until proven one way or the other.

 

[dawgstudent]

but we should go ahead and say Ole Miss with QB's who have zero experience should be respected. As I said, I like our situation a whole lot better.

 

[esplanade91]

Sowell vs South Carolina. September 24, 2009. Enough said. Guy plopped more than Renardo before he fouls out.

Experience is a big part to a strong O-line but it's not a necessity. Will an average O-lineman who starts 4 years start out looking terrible and eventually start looking pretty decent if he plays the same position throughout? Probably. Give me a great O-line coach and a strength and conditioning coach who knows his **** and I'll give you a young, inexperienced but great O-line.

Same goes with every position coach and position. See Ballard, Relf, and any of our wide receivers.

 

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

Yes, there have been plenty of 1st year starters to come in the league and establish a passing threat. How many have done so under Nutt?

 

[whatever.sixpack]

Yes, there have been plenty of 1st year starters to come in the league and establish a passing threat. How many have done so under Nutt?

Good point, and that's why this case is different than say Murray or David Greene under Richt, or a 1st year QB under a QB coach as good as Cutcliffe.<div>
</div><div>I think Brunetti is a talented guy, and could put up an Aaron Murray type season under a great QB developer, but Nutt has hardly ever shown that he can have a QB as a senior that performed like some of the previously mentioned guys have as 1st yr starters. </div><div>
</div><div>You'll probably come back with "it'll be different under David Lee," but that hasn't been Nutt's history, although the passing game flourished a little more under Kent Austin with Snead than any of Nutt's offenses in recent memory

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[lawdawg02]

going into last season, that Relf had not proven himself as a legit running threat because he only had a couple of good games the year before (while splitting time with Tyson Lee and the sticky icky). If he can't see Relf's improvement in the passing game,he's blind.

Also, I saw the SP-MUS game, and I remember being VERY unimpressed with Brunetti's passing prowess. And that was when we were recruiting him.

 

[Todd4State]

four for nine last year. Excuse me for not being sold on him as a passer.

Relf on the other hand completed around 65% of his passes his last three games and was the Gator Bowl MVP- and it certainly wasn't because of his running ability, although he certainly can do that as well.

Again, if people want to stack the box against us, I have no problem at all with that. Because it will be a huge mistake on the part of our opponent.