Hiring a Final Four Coach

[I’m The Village Idiot]

Yeah ... but what about THE KENTUCKY BRAND ??

I have concerns about going with a recruiting-first type of coach. I do believe they’re going to need heavy on-court chops and I’ll tell you why:

A lot of fans don’t like to see this but we ran somewhat uncontested in the early Calipari era for one and done top recruits. We had Kansas as our top competitor but Calipari regularly beat Self in recruiting. That lasted from the 2010 season until the 2014 season. By that point, Coach K got involved in the OAD recruiting. Once he did, the tide shifted and before long, Duke was clearly ahead of Kentucky in the recruiting pecking order. The greatest recruiter of all time was simply not able to keep pace when Duke started going after these top OAD. Miller won’t be able to either.

Think of it like this:

During peak Stoops era in football, we were running it down every team’s throats and winning with defense. But there was one team we were ALWAYS going to lose to — Georgia. We had no competitive advantage because we used the same blueprint as them but with worse talent.

If we went with a Sean Miller, we would go back to prioritizing the OAD but they won’t be the same level as Duke. Then, you have the revolving door of talent without the competitive advantage of experience and roster continuity. Miller would be a worse version of late Calipari IMHO. It’s only my opinion and I could be dead wrong. He could be Rupp 2.0 but I don’t see it. I don’t want to try to be Duke Jr. we have to find our own angle.

 

[Broker]

You could say that for most of our previous coaches. What did we offer Pitino he didn't have in the NBA or Cal that just went to the Championship game with Memphis.Sampson isn't winning a title at Houston. He doesn't have the recruiting name of Kentucky and the historical dominance of Kentucky. Those things still matter with the right coach. Offer him a substantial raise with incentives and he would come.

We have not been relevant to the HS kids today. Most kids today were 4 or 5 years old when we last won a championship. Kids want money and play with winners. We seem to have the money but not the winning tradition. Past performance has no bearing on future performance especially when our past performance for winning it all was before HS kids can remember. Don't forget a dynamic head coach who can sell UK and let them know how we develop kids for the NBA would help.

 

[Eight_Banners]

Dana Altman (Oregon)
Rick Barnes (Tennessee)

John Calipari (Arkansas)
Mick Cronin (UCLA)
Hubert Davis (North Carolina)
Scott Drew (Baylor)
Brian Dutcher (San Diego State)
Mark Few (Gonzaga)

Dan Hurley (UConn)
Tom Izzo (Michigan State)
Thad Matta (Butler)
Rick Pitino (St. John’s)
Kelvin Sampson (Houston)
Jon Scheyer (Duke)
Bill Self (Kansas)
Shaka Smart (Marquette)


Frank Martin (Massachusetts)


Inactive/Retired: Bob Huggins, Jay Wright, Bruce Pearl, Kevin Keatts, Billy Donovan, Tony Bennett, Paul Hewitt, John Belein.

My choices, in order:

1. Dusty May (Michigan)
2.Chris Beard (Ole Miss)
2b. Nate Oats (Alabama)
4. Todd Golden (Florida)

Not on the list, but would be number 2b with Nate Oats, Fred Hoiberg

 

[Runt#1969]

Oats
Beard
Golden
Pearl
Byington

? ?

The real issue for me is : we need a new AD at Kentucky. Period. Start there, then get a coach.

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

Oats
Beard
Golden
Pearl
Byington

? ?

The real issue for me is : we need a new AD at Kentucky. Period. Start there, then get a coach.

I love your list. I think i like McCollum a whole bunch too.

 

[meteordealer]

With the current landscape of "college" basketball, i think a guy with NBA experience would be better. They know how to negotiate contracts, and pay players.

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

With the current landscape of "college" basketball, i think a guy with NBA experience would be better. They know how to negotiate contracts, and pay players.

Maybe. If we don’t get a top college name who has proven it in this current era, maybe you find a young NBA guy. I do think it’s a risk because of the differences between the games but Kevin Young is doing a great job.

 

[meteordealer]

Maybe. If we don’t get a top college name who has proven it in this current era, maybe you find a young NBA guy. I do think it’s a risk because of the differences between the games but Kevin Young is doing a great job.

There is no difference in college and NBA basketball anymore.

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

There is no difference in college and NBA basketball anymore.

There most certainly is. A massive one. I get your point though, things are changing quickly at the college level.

 

[OneWayStreet]

Matt Painter is missing from the list.

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

Matt Painter is missing from the list.

Thanks, dude

 

[Goingfor9]

Excellent coach rotting at Ole Miss.

He’s not a very good coach. Lightning in a bottle. Ole miss in his second year already has 7 losses. Beard has done nada outside that ff. There is nothing about beard that makes him a good fit. His style is rock fight. I hear about how oats and pearl are on Barney’s dnh list. Oats is on there but not beats. Come on

 

[CAWOOD FAN]

Hire some final 4 players

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

Hire some final 4 players

We did. And tonight we played better without him. Give me the “bought in” players.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

I know there’s been a lot of discussion about the need to hire a coach with Final Four experience, so I tried to dig up and find out which coaches are still active who have made one. I threw a few inactive ones in there as well, in case anyone wanted to discuss those.

If I missed any active Final Four coaches, let me know.


Dana Altman (Oregon)
Rick Barnes (Tennessee)
Chris Beard (Ole Miss)
John Calipari (Arkansas)
Mick Cronin (UCLA)
Hubert Davis (North Carolina)
Scott Drew (Baylor)
Brian Dutcher (San Diego State)
Mark Few (Gonzaga)
Todd Golden (Florida)
Dan Hurley (UConn)
Tom Izzo (Michigan State)
Thad Matta (Butler)
Rick Pitino (St. John’s)
Kelvin Sampson (Houston)
Jon Scheyer (Duke)
Bill Self (Kansas)
Shaka Smart (Marquette)
Dusty May (Michigan)
Nate Oats (Alabama)
Frank Martin (Massachusetts)
Matt Painter (Purdue)


Inactive/Retired: Bob Huggins, Jay Wright, Bruce Pearl, Kevin Keatts, Billy Donovan, Tony Bennett, Paul Hewitt, John Belein.

May, Golden would be the two to go after. Oats should be a given but who knows if Barney would even try. After that get the hot younger guys like Otzelberger, Lloyd, etc.. I’d even try McCollum but his style wouldn’t be exciting, but he can really coach and may not leave Iowa.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

Ben McCollum would be at the top of the under 50 list for me (that are possibly attainable)

I also have goo goo eyes for Byington because of his roster vision. McCollum is the more sure thing no doubt.

Will Wade hasn’t proven it yet at NC State but McNeese State was only a continuation of what he did at LSU. For some, that’s a baggage pickup.

I’d say if you’re more interested in getting the best possible players and taking a risk as far as acumen, Jai Lucas from Miami is an obvious one.

Byington seems like he could be a great candidate it I’d like to see more years of top play from him first.

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

May, Golden would be the two to go after. Oats should be a given but who knows if Barney would even try. After that get the hot younger guys like Otzelberger, Lloyd, etc.. I’d even try McCollum but his style wouldn’t be exciting, but he can really coach and may not leave Iowa.

Second person I’ve heard say McCollum wouldn’t leave Iowa. What’s the reason there?

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

Tommy Lloyd would be high on my list but E8 last year was his deepest run as head coach. He went to multiple ff's as an assistant with Mark Few at Gonzaga.

He will break through soon.

 

[Dward13]

Second person I’ve heard say McCollum wouldn’t leave Iowa. What’s the reason there?

Hes spent almost his entire career in or near iowa. He was born in Iowa City. Spent 15 years at NW Missouri State in D2 right on the border of Missouri and Iowa. Turned down other d1 offers supposedly to take the Drake job located in Iowa. Took the Iowa job after one season at Drake.

The Hawkeyes admin had likely been tracking his career just waiting for the right time. Hes there guy. And that’s his home.

I talked to trilly donovan about this about 2 years ago. And he said he doesn’t think McCollum would leave once he got that job.

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

Hes spent almost his entire career in or near iowa. He was born in Iowa City. Spent 15 years at NW Missouri State in D2 right on the border of Missouri and Iowa. Turned down other d1 offers supposedly to take the Drake job located in Iowa. Took the Iowa job after one season at Drake.

The Hawkeyes admin had likely been tracking his career just waiting for the right time. Hes there guy. And that’s his home.

I talked to trilly donovan about this about 2 years ago. And he said he doesn’t think McCollum would leave once he got that job.

Ahh, thanks for that.

 

[Dr.LutherSan]

I just don’t think those situations are analogous. Your Calipari example is from an era where brand was still the biggest factor in recruiting, resources etc. It’s just not like that anymore — money is first and Houston has big oil money.

yOu MuSt NoT bE a ReAl fAn. Go BaCk To ThE aRkAnSaS bOaRd TrOlL

 

[ChiefPaducah]

Tommy Lloyd would be high on my list but E8 last year was his deepest run as head coach. He went to multiple ff's as an assistant with Mark Few at Gonzaga.

This is the dude I wanted before Pope was hired and is probably top 3 if Pope doesn’t survive. You don’t hear much about him because he’s at Arizona but the dude can coach.

 

[Madhuvan]

He’s not a very good coach. Lightning in a bottle. Ole miss in his second year already has 7 losses. Beard has done nada outside that ff. There is nothing about beard that makes him a good fit. His style is rock fight. I hear about how oats and pearl are on Barney’s dnh list. Oats is on there but not beats. Come on

Does Ole Miss offer athletic scholarships to basketball players? How’s the basketball NIL looking?

 

[NociHTTP]

This is the dude I wanted before Pope was hired and is probably top 3 if Pope doesn’t survive. You don’t hear much about him because he’s at Arizona but the dude can coach.

Three hours after an impressive win someone's STILL got to remind everyone else that Pope "might now survive". Really? Be positive. The team just came together tonight. None of Louisville, Missouri and dare I say Alabama beat us tonight.

 

[Dr.LutherSan]

This is the dude I wanted before Pope was hired and is probably top 3 if Pope doesn’t survive. You don’t hear much about him because he’s at Arizona but the dude can coach.

He's been to the Sweet Sixteen 3/4 years that he has been a head coach. That's not a Final Four, but it's trending in the right direction.

 

[Anon470511]

I know there’s been a lot of discussion about the need to hire a coach with Final Four experience, so I tried to dig up and find out which coaches are still active who have made one. I threw a few inactive ones in there as well, in case anyone wanted to discuss those.

If I missed any active Final Four coaches, let me know.


Dana Altman (Oregon)
Rick Barnes (Tennessee)
Chris Beard (Ole Miss)
John Calipari (Arkansas)
Mick Cronin (UCLA)
Hubert Davis (North Carolina)
Scott Drew (Baylor)
Brian Dutcher (San Diego State)
Mark Few (Gonzaga)
Todd Golden (Florida)
Dan Hurley (UConn)
Tom Izzo (Michigan State)
Thad Matta (Butler)
Rick Pitino (St. John’s)
Kelvin Sampson (Houston)
Jon Scheyer (Duke)
Bill Self (Kansas)
Shaka Smart (Marquette)
Dusty May (Michigan)
Nate Oats (Alabama)
Frank Martin (Massachusetts)


Inactive/Retired: Bob Huggins, Jay Wright, Bruce Pearl, Kevin Keatts, Billy Donovan, Tony Bennett, Paul Hewitt, John Belein.

This is the next guy to get a big time opportunity, his offense style is fun.
View attachment 1131475

Not looking for "fun"

 

[Anon470511]

Let’s give Pope enough time to get the players that fits his system, and in due time, he’ll have some FF’s of his own! This was always going to be a 6-10 year project, so let’s all be patient and rally behind our coach! He needs us right now, and don’t forget he’s partially responsible for that ‘96 Championship.

Dude he was a backup...Yall gotta come back down to earth

 

[preston-lemasterpiece]

Three hours after an impressive win someone's STILL got to remind everyone else that Pope "might now survive". Really? Be positive. The team just came together tonight. None of Louisville, Missouri and dare I say Alabama beat us tonight.

Missouri, absolutely
The other two? I don’t see it. The difference in our ability to execute against upper tier teams has been the whole problem this season

Keep this energy and beat lsu and now we’re talkin
If we lose in Louisiana then this win is pretty much immaterial

 

[preston-lemasterpiece]

Dude he was a backup...Yall gotta come back down to earth

“6-10 year project”. That is deranged.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

Three hours after an impressive win someone's STILL got to remind everyone else that Pope "might now survive". Really? Be positive. The team just came together tonight. None of Louisville, Missouri and dare I say Alabama beat us tonight.

Mizzou’s probably not, but bama and Louisville absolutely would have the way we played for 30 minutes of the game.11 good minutes of game time doesn’t beat good teams.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

Missouri, absolutely
The other two? I don’t see it. The difference in our ability to execute against upper tier teams has been the whole problem this season

Keep this energy and beat lsu and now we’re talkin
If we lose in Louisiana then this win is pretty much immaterial

We need to win 5-6 in a row.

 

[ChiefPaducah]

Three hours after an impressive win someone's STILL got to remind everyone else that Pope "might now survive". Really? Be positive. The team just came together tonight. None of Louisville, Missouri and dare I say Alabama beat us tonight.

I felt like I was kind of staring the obvious here. There is a universe in which Pope does not survive the job. Whether that be of his own choosing or not. I hope on my 46 years of fandom, that this was the turning point of the season. But we are still waiting to see.

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

I felt like I was kind of staring the obvious here. There is a universe in which Pope does not survive the job. Whether that be of his own choosing or not. I hope on my 46 years of fandom, that this was the turning point of the season. But we are still waiting to see.

Absolutely correct. Pope isn’t out of the woods or even close. Even his most ardent supporters are acknowledging it’s an uphill battle. I’d consider myself very pro-Pope and we are still very likely to need a new coach within 14 months. Thinking about the future is 100% warranted.

 

[ukcats012]

I don’t understand the fascination with Pearl or the belief he’d take the job. He didn’t retire for no reason. I find it very hard to believe a 65 year old coach who just retired is coming out of retirement for the biggest pressure cooker in college basketball during an era where being a coach is as much work as it’s ever been and you have to re-recruit your entire team and convince them to stay each year.

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

I don’t understand the fascination with Pearl or the belief he’d take the job. He didn’t retire for no reason. I find it very hard to believe a 65 year old coach who just retired is coming out of retirement for the biggest pressure cooker in college basketball during an era where being a coach is as much work as it’s ever been and you have to re-recruit your entire team and convince them to stay each year.

The competing in-conference against his son is an underrated big deal IMHO.

Im a Pearl guy honestly, I love that guy. My wishful thinking is he loves me how I love him

 

[ukcats012]

I just don’t think those situations are analogous. Your Calipari example is from an era where brand was still the biggest factor in recruiting, resources etc. It’s just not like that anymore — money is first and Houston has big oil money.

I think mentioning Cal is also kind of the exception that proves the rule. He’s really the only big name coach who wanted the job since Pitino. Every other coaching search since ‘97 was taking a chance on a more up and coming coach.

 

[NociHTTP]

I felt like I was kind of staring the obvious here. There is a universe in which Pope does not survive the job. Whether that be of his own choosing or not. I hope on my 46 years of fandom, that this was the turning point of the season. But we are still waiting to see.

Why not just focus on the positive, what the Cats have done well and what we should do going forward in these games coming up?