Hodge Race widens
- Thread starter Lil Nicky Scarfo
- Start date
Isn’t the thread titled Hodge Race widens? Am I moving goalposts? If so I am so sorry…. I didn’t realize responding with something mentioned in the headline of the thread was moving goalpostsThought we were discussing big 10 wrestler of the year? The hodge is way different. Don't move the goalpost on me know Paul
but my original comment about why do you care so much stands no matter what topic we are discussing!
Just for the record I am all for moving the goal posts... Not because I care but because I just want chaos...
Spoken like the Cstroke we all know and….. tolerate?Just for the record I am all for moving the goal posts... Not because I care but because I just want chaos...
and fwi, apparently my phone thinks I meant to type Caroline when I typed Cstroke. But for once I notice the “correction” before I hit post.
Early days of spellcheck in Microsoft Word. I worked with a guy whose last name is Vignolo. Can you guess what Word suggested as the replacement?Spoken like the Cstroke we all know and….. tolerate?
and fwi, apparently my phone thinks I meant to type Caroline when I typed Cstroke. But for once I notice the “correction” before I hit post.
We had some fun with him.
Sunshiny Spyker was a broken record this weekend, with all the times he said somebody needs to talk to "SNV."
Yeah, but it was a very impressive 5 points.
Is it because you think I am sweet???? Like Sweet Caroline....Spoken like the Cstroke we all know and….. tolerate?
and fwi, apparently my phone thinks I meant to type Caroline when I typed Cstroke. But for once I notice the “correction” before I hit post.
BTW you guys that got together this weekend should start a thread and give us noobs who didn't go a look into what you guys did and saw...
Barr should have won then. He really jumped levels. This is by your thinkingIt's not an award off of 1 match. Now respond like a 12 years old again
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I'm not sure how asking your opinion about something equates to "you guys crying." None of your previous posts on the matter gave us any insight as to what you actually thought about who was most deserving. After reading your response, I can understand your rationale. I agree that Cale, PJ, and Mitchell don't really care, but why should that preclude PSU fans from talking on our board about something that doesn't make much sense logically when we first here it?
So u must care enough to respond on this board to Nitlion1986 proving how inane ur take on Mendez over Mesenbrink was.
Mendez bias is undeniable. He’s behind in all mat dominance stats and no candidate has failed the Sportsmanship test. Other than Vega or Hardy upsetting the look-at-me-vote-for-me-Gofund-my-Hodge-campaign Buckeye, he’s as close to a lock to win it as Mitchell or Josh is to be denied.
Yes, it’s petty that the small-minded will disregard the key Hodge criteria (dominance) just to middle-finger Cael’s juggernaut. It’s even more pathetic that the primarily (entirely?) male electorate will disregard long-admired and fraternally respected traits of integrity and honesty, all to punish deserving young men for their coach’s success!
In a sport we love for the pound-for-pound, macho toughness of its athletes, too many Hodge voters will get as feminine and catty as they can, dawn skirts, and give Mendez a first-place vote.
Yes, it’s petty that the small-minded will disregard the key Hodge criteria (dominance) just to middle-finger Cael’s juggernaut. It’s even more pathetic that the primarily (entirely?) male electorate will disregard long-admired and fraternally respected traits of integrity and honesty, all to punish deserving young men for their coach’s success!
In a sport we love for the pound-for-pound, macho toughness of its athletes, too many Hodge voters will get as feminine and catty as they can, dawn skirts, and give Mendez a first-place vote.
So....what you're saying is the coaches didnt consult you for your input before they voted??
How bizarre.
I don't have an issue with Ryan winning the COTY award. tOSU had a damn fine season that was not expected beforehand, and well, they can't give it to Cael every year. That's just not the way it works at any level. When there is a good story behind a guy that doesn't win it all the time, that's the way it goes.
Davino, Duke, Marcus - all deserving. Chalk this up to guys voting before the B1Gs. If someone actually voted Davino after watching PJ's performance after that tournament, they are a joke, but I would bet most of those votes were cast a while ago.
The Mendez thing is absolutely mystifying. I asked @WillieTheBrain why he said Mendez a few weeks ago and gave some numbers which were hard to dispute - they've only gotten worse in favor of Mitchell since. He hasn't responded yet and I'll give him a broken ankle pass for now - but it's hard for me to see anyone coming up with a logical argument for Mendez and articulating it. Mostly, it's like "well, he's a beast." Yeah, he is, but Mitchell is a bigger and better beast. And don't give me 141 being better than 165. You have an undefeated freshman who pretty much is a one-trick pony right now and people are acting like he's Spencer Lee. BTW, Mendez hasn't faced him yet. He's only beasted him hypothetically by most of the guys that want to award Mendez the Hodge. Brock Hardy who has been majored by Vega twice, and was getting the crap kicked out of him by Braedan Davis before he gassed. Very nice guy, top wrestler, but is he better than Caliendo? No way. And Mitchell has absolutely dominated Caliendo - Mendez has only dominated Hardy ONCE in all their meetings - 4 out of the last 5 meetings were once score affairs either at the buzzer or with less then 2 seconds left. Lockett and Blaze (returning finalist) are also in this weight. How about a hypothesize that Mitchell will major Lockett - does that work as well?
If anyone could articulate an argument why Mendez is more deserving of the Hodge beyond the fact that this is his last chance at it (that didn't help Carter last year), I would think it would be Willie - so I'll keep the door open and see if he responds.
Davino, Duke, Marcus - all deserving. Chalk this up to guys voting before the B1Gs. If someone actually voted Davino after watching PJ's performance after that tournament, they are a joke, but I would bet most of those votes were cast a while ago.
The Mendez thing is absolutely mystifying. I asked @WillieTheBrain why he said Mendez a few weeks ago and gave some numbers which were hard to dispute - they've only gotten worse in favor of Mitchell since. He hasn't responded yet and I'll give him a broken ankle pass for now - but it's hard for me to see anyone coming up with a logical argument for Mendez and articulating it. Mostly, it's like "well, he's a beast." Yeah, he is, but Mitchell is a bigger and better beast. And don't give me 141 being better than 165. You have an undefeated freshman who pretty much is a one-trick pony right now and people are acting like he's Spencer Lee. BTW, Mendez hasn't faced him yet. He's only beasted him hypothetically by most of the guys that want to award Mendez the Hodge. Brock Hardy who has been majored by Vega twice, and was getting the crap kicked out of him by Braedan Davis before he gassed. Very nice guy, top wrestler, but is he better than Caliendo? No way. And Mitchell has absolutely dominated Caliendo - Mendez has only dominated Hardy ONCE in all their meetings - 4 out of the last 5 meetings were once score affairs either at the buzzer or with less then 2 seconds left. Lockett and Blaze (returning finalist) are also in this weight. How about a hypothesize that Mitchell will major Lockett - does that work as well?
If anyone could articulate an argument why Mendez is more deserving of the Hodge beyond the fact that this is his last chance at it (that didn't help Carter last year), I would think it would be Willie - so I'll keep the door open and see if he responds.
Mitchell might DQ Lockett. I really really hope we see that match.
If you have to decide between awards and titles, what do you take every time?
Because Mendez this year is more impressive vs last year's Mendez model and well Mitchell has been stomping on everybody not named David Carr for 3 years.
Mitchell is more dominant and impressive and he has developed a top beast style this year that makes it impossible to not acknowledge this year's Mitchell model is vastly superior to last year's Mitchell model.
It is just psychologically cool to show how non biased and wrestling smart you are by unconsciously with a massive subjective twist declaring Mendez the top gun this year.
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It was my opinion on what happened. Coaches were like Penn St wins everything Mendez has jumped levels and voted for him.
Titles but seems like many here really value a conference award
after listening to Willie and basch this morning when they explained what the parameters were Davino was obviously the choice.
Arguably, Coach of the year? Sanderson did what was expected, if Ryan finished 3rd would anyone have been surprised at the beginning of the year ?
mendez and mitchell?
I think they are both torching the field, anti psu bias is helping…
Arguably, Coach of the year? Sanderson did what was expected, if Ryan finished 3rd would anyone have been surprised at the beginning of the year ?
mendez and mitchell?
I think they are both torching the field, anti psu bias is helping…
I can’t believe the coaches voted the way they did. Crazy. Make no sense.
I am Manning Mad about the results.
We need an algorithm………….
I am Manning Mad about the results.
We need an algorithm………….
I agree that Coach of the Year should go to the guy with the best story, someone who exceeded widely-held expectations; giving it to the coach of the team with the best record would undermine the purpose of having an award that's voted on. Cael isn't losing a second of sleep over an award with such subjective criteria like Coach of the Year, and fans shouldn't either. I also agree with the underlying logic that adopts fan sentiment as an implicit factor, and that spreading an award like COTY around is better for wrestling.
But that same logic doesn't hold for the Hodge. If there's a candidate with 100% bonus rate (and there are two), and you're scanning down the page b/c they're PSU guys and you think PSU gets too many awards, you're cheapening the award by ignoring the stated dominance criteria and substituting your own. If all the factors shake out equally, maybe you start thinking about whether someone is a senior and it's his last shot, partly because we've heard that logic enough to know that voters do consider it. But only if everything else is a wash.
The only way to offset Mesenbrink's and Barr's 100% bonus rates in defense of Mendez is to argue that 141 is much better than 165, and when you start comparing those rankings, you can't really do it. Setting Vega aside because Mendez hasn't wrestled him, Hardy is very similar Caliendo in terms of where they're both at, consistent podium guy, 1x finalist, improved every year but still a notch below. But Hardy has shown he's far closer to beating Mendez than Caliendo is to beating Mesenbrink. And as you point out, Hardy isn't even the second best guy at 141. And it's not as if Caliendo is getting worse--at some point you'd think familiarity would bring Caliendo closer, but the opposite is happening.
In Barr's case, there's a dropoff between him and the 197 field, with Rocky Elam (whom Barr hasn't faced) lacking Caliendo or Hardy's resumes, and a farther drop after Elam.
There's also the eye test. Early on in every Mesenbrink it becomes clear what's going to happen, even when he gives up the occasional takedown from over-exuberance. No one at 165 belongs out there with him. Mendez can almost say the same but not quite.
And Vega is clearly good, but also went to TBs against Echemendia this weekend, and has a ~50% bonus rate. But Mendez campaigners have to puff him the TRFR so that when Mendez beats him, it'll be Dake beating Taylor.
The Mendez dominance talk, where you only discuss the times he was dominant and ignore the times he wasn't, reminds me of Spencer Lee talk--Lee is the Best Wrestler Ever... except on all those days when he isn't.
it's funny that Iowa fans are on here complaining about Penn State fans complaining about an unjust biased vote that doesn't involve Iowa. And somehow the Iowa fans think that's normal!!
I think tom brands should have gotten coach of the year just for maintaining employment through big 10s lmfao
Has he really jumped levels. Take out his 1-2 versus Bartlett last year and he was what 29-1 with an 80% bonus rate. Seems like his best win over the past 2 years was Beau at the NCAA finals. Maybe it appears like he’s jumped levels o ly because he’s competing in the one weight class we don’t have a stud.
Mendez has 1 more fall this year than last and Mitch has 8 I think. So who is jumping levels?
And of course we all care about NCAA titles more. Fans can’t care about both? If the awards don’t mean anything to anyone what’s the point of giving them out? Does the Hodge mean something? Maybe because Mendez got this award somehow it holds weight for those voters. I really don’t think the team or the coaches care, it’s evident when you hear them talk but as fans of course we like to see the accolades.
I think it is Brands' turn next year.
I still can't figure out why Bono and Chandler don't get their participation trophies. They manage to band together an entire team and show up.
It was plainly one part credit to tOSU for and one part retribution against PSU for not participating in the National Duals Invitational. Those affiliated with B1G teams that competed at the NDI, which tOSU won, likely blackballed PSU from consideration of B1G awards.
We’re anticipating the Hodge vote.Thought we were discussing big 10 wrestler of the year? The hodge is way different. Don't move the goalpost on me know Paul
OW is a tournament award. The three that OSU won are season awards. That's why they say "of the year." So, the dual does matter.
Give em Forfeits… nationals will be even more impressive. Greatest team ever. The competition is so much better than in the 80’s and 90’s. Next year will be even better as Kasak returns and Ono arrives.
Kasak will be replacing a redshirting PJ, Ono will take Davis' spot in the lineup. Levi is probably being replaced by RSF Henckel.