Holgorsen from ESPNs pov

[Buckaineer]

Write up of the Coach Holgorsen situation from ESPN

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/107695/dana-holgorsen-faces-tough-task-at-west-virginia

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

I wouldn't say that this is necessarily Espn's point of view. Its just the point of view of this writer

 

[GoWVU]

Hard to believe that a professional journalist and his editor do not know the difference between "mute" and "moot".

 

[WVU-SE]

Journalism is a lost art my friend. And while I will say that this necessarily isn't ESPN's point of view, it is the ESPN Big 12 beat writer, so it's a decent representation of the company.

 

[xWVU2010x]

It was surprisingly accurate for something coming out of a national outlet. I will say that I personally dont agree that the conference change was the reason for dropping from a 10 win team to a 7 win team from 2010 to 2011. That defense was historically bad and would have struggled to contain Big East offenses was well. While we likely would not have been blown out nearly as much in the Big East in 2011, I think our win total would have been the same, maybe slightly better. That D simply couldnt stop anyone and Geno / Tavon / Stedman while talented werent good enough to win that many games by themselves.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

The Defense wad bad in 2012 because our HC decided to hire his drinking buddy and make him Defensive coordinator. We got blown out a total of 4 times that year and one of them was at the hands of syracuse

 

[Soaring Eagle 74]

Hard to believe that a professional journalist and his editor do not know the difference between "mute" and "moot".

Editing, in the age of the "internets", is seen as an unnecessary expense.

 

[GoWVU]

You're probably right about that. I'm sure English class soon will be, too.

 

[Buckaineer]

The Defense wad bad in 2012 because our HC decided to hire his drinking buddy and make him Defensive coordinator. We got blown out a total of 4 times that year and one of them was at the hands of syracuse

Not sure why you feel the need to commit slander when you post.

Holgorsen didn't hire his "drinking buddy" he hired a respected and experienced coach. The defense didn't work out that year in large part due to lack of personnel and depth from the previous regime as well as the level of competition faced. This year WVU has also had some games get away from them on defense--doubt any of you jokers are going to claim its due to a "drinking buddy" being hired.

The article pretty accurately sums up the difficulty WVU is facing in this new conference and the situation for Holgorsen.

 

[Buckaineer]

It was surprisingly accurate for something coming out of a national outlet. I will say that I personally dont agree that the conference change was the reason for dropping from a 10 win team to a 7 win team from 2010 to 2011. That defense was historically bad and would have struggled to contain Big East offenses was well. While we likely would not have been blown out nearly as much in the Big East in 2011, I think our win total would have been the same, maybe slightly better. That D simply couldnt stop anyone and Geno / Tavon / Stedman while talented werent good enough to win that many games by themselves.

The article is accurate in its description. Much more difficult schedule year in and out and for at least 3 or 4 years Coach Holgorsen has been trying to restructure the team to compete in this elite conference and rebuild depth that wasn't recruited from the previous staff. He compared to Patterson was taking on a new job and also a completely new program whereas Patterson had been at TCU for a decade at least and competed against many of the same teams during that time as well.

Holgorsen showed in year one how he would have fared in the Big East had it continued to exist--winning 10 games a season and winning that league. Unfortunately it will take much more to be better in the BIG 12 conference.

 

[xWVU2010x]

The article is accurate in its description. Much more difficult schedule year in and out and for at least 3 or 4 years Coach Holgorsen has been trying to restructure the team to compete in this elite conference and rebuild depth that wasn't recruited from the previous staff. He compared to Patterson was taking on a new job and also a completely new program whereas Patterson had been at TCU for a decade at least and competed against many of the same teams during that time as well.

Holgorsen showed in year one how he would have fared in the Big East had it continued to exist--winning 10 games a season and winning that league. Unfortunately it will take much more to be better in the BIG 12 conference.

Stewart admittedly left the cupboard bare outside of the Geno/Tavon/Stedman and a select one or two others. I dont think DH's first season was an "indication of how he wouldve done in the Big East", we finished 5-2 in conference with a solid but not great team just like we did in the previous three seasons with Stewart, the tiebreakers just so happened to work in DH's favor opposed to Stewart. The problem with the Stewart teams always seemed to be playcalling and Holgorsen was supposed to fix that with his high flying offense. It never materialized not counting the statistical anomaly that was the Clemson game. The more time goes on the more I think we just felt entitled to win the Big East no matter what and we underestimated everyone else in the conference each year and overestimated our talent level. Stewart and his staff were not particularly great at playcalling or gameplanning but I dont think they were costing us 2 Big East games per year, I dont think DH would have dominated either, he may have done slightly better than Stewart, I think we wouldve been a 8-9 regular season win program in the BE just like we were with Stewart, we didnt upgrade.

I still dont think the Big XII is as great as we think, its certainly a better league at the top but I dont think the 2005-07 Mountaineers would have struggled in this conference or most of our better teams for that matter. Maybe we wouldnt have been awarded 2 BCS bids in 3 years, but we still would have gotten our share of wins including some big ones against Texas and OU.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Holgorsen didn't hire his "drinking buddy" he hired a respected and experienced coach.

Did you know that the word gullible is not in the dictionary? [laughing]

 

[Buckaineer]

Did you know that the word gullible is not in the dictionary? [laughing]

Referring to "gullible" I assume you mean those who believe slanderous stories about "drinking buddies" being offered jobs--cause those are the only ones "gullible" in this instance--guessing you are one of them.

 

[Buckaineer]

Stewart admittedly left the cupboard bare outside of the Geno/Tavon/Stedman and a select one or two others. I dont think DH's first season was an "indication of how he wouldve done in the Big East", we finished 5-2 in conference with a solid but not great team just like we did in the previous three seasons with Stewart, the tiebreakers just so happened to work in DH's favor opposed to Stewart. The problem with the Stewart teams always seemed to be playcalling and Holgorsen was supposed to fix that with his high flying offense. It never materialized not counting the statistical anomaly that was the Clemson game. The more time goes on the more I think we just felt entitled to win the Big East no matter what and we underestimated everyone else in the conference each year and overestimated our talent level. Stewart and his staff were not particularly great at playcalling or gameplanning but I dont think they were costing us 2 Big East games per year, I dont think DH would have dominated either, he may have done slightly better than Stewart, I think we wouldve been a 8-9 regular season win program in the BE just like we were with Stewart, we didnt upgrade.

I still dont think the Big XII is as great as we think, its certainly a better league at the top but I dont think the 2005-07 Mountaineers would have struggled in this conference or most of our better teams for that matter. Maybe we wouldnt have been awarded 2 BCS bids in 3 years, but we still would have gotten our share of wins including some big ones against Texas and OU.

Coach Holgorsen's first season is a clear indication of how he would have fared--always contending for a Big East championship. You compare Stewart to that saying he had a similar record--but he had three chances and never could win the league and certainly wasn't always in contention for a Big East championship either so that's just false. Considering Stewart and company lost two games at least in conference each year indicates by record that they did in fact cost WVU two wins per year. Holgorsen's one year in that league showed an upgrade over what the previous three years brought and he didn't inherit a top five team with a Heisman caliber QB and RB coming off of an impressive BCS bowl victory like Stewart and co did either. Doesn't matter now because the Big East is defunct and Stewart has passed on.

As to the BIG 12 "we" don't think its great--those who work in the college football industry and chart such things think its great. Some WVU (or other) fans seem to have a need to try and diminish what the BIG 12 is to make what was before seem better, but really, the statistics show that the Big East was not on par with the BIG 12 as a conference. WVU would have been a dominant team in the Big East and challenged for titles yearly, but WVU has moved on to the most difficult schedule its ever faced year to year--and unfortunately WVU is going to have to significantly upgrade to have better outcomes. That starts with continuity.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Coach Holgorsen's first season is a clear indication of how he would have fared--always contending for a Big East championship.

We're not in the Big East any more.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

As to the BIG 12 "we" don't think its great--those who work in the college football industry and chart such things think its great.

You think 15-21 is "great"?

 

[VaultHunter]

This is the opinion of someone who is not a personal fan of WVU. And it is 100% accurate.


If every WVU fan felt this way and fully understood every topic in this piece they would have a completely different outlook and perspective. The comparison between TCU and WVU is rubbish because TCU had a great veteran head coach located in the most fertile recruiting ground in the country.


The Big12 IS night and day from the Big East WVU played in including the Big East of Miami, VT ect. Holgorsen's first season proved this by having as good as a season as Nehlen, Stewart or Rodriguez ever had. Is Holgorsen a future HOF coach like Patterson? We don't know yet.


Either WVU can stick with him and see or replace him. WVU chose to stick with him and see at the least another season. Either support that decision or don't. Constantly bashing WVU, Lyons or Holgorsen will do absolutely nothing to change 2016.


It's not hard folks, either get behind WVU and Holgorsen for next season or not. People who are much more qualified will handle the decisions about coaches if need be. Thank God

 

[xWVU2010x]

Coach Holgorsen's first season is a clear indication of how he would have fared--always contending for a Big East championship. You compare Stewart to that saying he had a similar record--but he had three chances and never could win the league and certainly wasn't always in contention for a Big East championship either so that's just false. Considering Stewart and company lost two games at least in conference each year indicates by record that they did in fact cost WVU two wins per year. Holgorsen's one year in that league showed an upgrade over what the previous three years brought and he didn't inherit a top five team with a Heisman caliber QB and RB coming off of an impressive BCS bowl victory like Stewart and co did either. Doesn't matter now because the Big East is defunct and Stewart has passed on.

As to the BIG 12 "we" don't think its great--those who work in the college football industry and chart such things think its great. Some WVU (or other) fans seem to have a need to try and diminish what the BIG 12 is to make what was before seem better, but really, the statistics show that the Big East was not on par with the BIG 12 as a conference. WVU would have been a dominant team in the Big East and challenged for titles yearly, but WVU has moved on to the most difficult schedule its ever faced year to year--and unfortunately WVU is going to have to significantly upgrade to have better outcomes. That starts with continuity.

Lol if the UConn kicker misses a 50+ yard FG against USF in 2010 then Stewart would have had just as many BCS bids as Holgorsen. Conversely if Stedman Bailey doesnt make a ridiculous catch in triple coverage on 4th and 10 vs USF in 2011 we possibly end up in a 3 way tie for 3rd with Pitt and Rutgers in Holgorsen's first year. Both coaches were highly dramatic plays from BCS bids to the middle of the conference with teams of similar caliber, yet you think one is a much higher caliber coach than the other? I was never even a Stewart fan and wanted him gone, but hindsight is showing we didnt upgrade at all. As for Stewart's first two years, you are not going to convince me DH would have done any better against the two Brian Kelly Cincy teams, or Rich Rod for that manner. The 2008 team was Pat White and a bunch of nobodies, the 2009 team was nowhere near the caliber of the undefeated Cincy team and it showed over the course of the season.

As for the Big XII, the people who work in the "college football industry" dont know anything other than whats going on at Alabama and to a lesser extent the SEC. They're all just a bunch of 18-22 year olds out there with logos on and only a few teams have a much higher collection of Sunday talent than others, the talent difference is not huge between the old Big East and the Big XII, our teams just have simply not been up to par under DH. Dont get me wrong there is a talent gap but it primarily lies in spots 1-2 than spots 3-10 and 3-8 in the Big East. When I see WVU play teams like Texas Tech, ISU, Kansas, K State, it seems no different on TV or in person than playing Syracuse, Rutgers, Louisville or Pitt.

 

[Buckaineer]

You think 15-21 is "great"?

For the years that WVU has been in the BIG 12, the BIG 12 conference has been rated the #1 or 2 conference most years and #3 occasionally. The Big East rarely made it above #5. That is what the discussion was/is about in regards to evaluation of the conferences. Try to keep up.

 

[xWVU2010x]

For the years that WVU has been in the BIG 12, the BIG 12 conference has been rated the #1 or 2 conference most years and #3 occasionally. The Big East rarely made it above #5. That is what the discussion was/is about in regards to evaluation of the conferences. Try to keep up.

According to realtime RPI in the Stewart / Holgorsen era:

2011 Big XII 2nd vs Big East 5th
2010 Big XII 2nd vs Big East 6th
2009 Big XII 4th vs Big East 2nd
2008 Big XII 1st vs Big East 3rd

Avg Big XII 2.25 vs Big East 4

Not a collossal difference

 

[Buckaineer]

Lol if the UConn kicker misses a 50+ yard FG against USF in 2010 then Stewart would have had just as many BCS bids as Holgorsen. Conversely if Stedman Bailey doesnt make a ridiculous catch in triple coverage on 4th and 10 vs USF in 2011 we possibly end up in a 3 way tie for 3rd with Pitt and Rutgers in Holgorsen's first year. Both coaches were highly dramatic plays from BCS bids to the middle of the conference with teams of similar caliber, yet you think one is a much higher caliber coach than the other? I was never even a Stewart fan and wanted him gone, but hindsight is showing we didnt upgrade at all. As for Stewart's first two years, you are not going to convince me DH would have done any better against the two Brian Kelly Cincy teams, or Rich Rod for that manner. The 2008 team was Pat White and a bunch of nobodies, the 2009 team was nowhere near the caliber of the undefeated Cincy team and it showed over the course of the season.

As for the Big XII, the people who work in the "college football industry" dont know anything other than whats going on at Alabama and to a lesser extent the SEC. They're all just a bunch of 18-22 year olds out there with logos on and only a few teams have a much higher collection of Sunday talent than others, the talent difference is not huge between the old Big East and the Big XII, our teams just have simply not been up to par under DH. Dont get me wrong there is a talent gap but it primarily lies in spots 1-2 than spots 3-10 and 3-8 in the Big East. When I see WVU play teams like Texas Tech, ISU, Kansas, K State, it seems no different on TV or in person than playing Syracuse, Rutgers, Louisville or Pitt.

If didn't happen. The fact is Stewart had three chances and did nothing but take a top five program straight out of the rankings in less than half of a season. He never coached the program to a BCS bowl and certainly didn't win one with his coaching and staff as coach Holgorsen did.

You want coach Holgorsen to be less than he is and want the old Big East to be more than it is in order to glorify a coach that couldn't win the diminished and now defunct Big East.

The article by ESPN spelled out in a very fair manner what Holgorsen has faced--switching conferences, having a diminished roster that had to be built up and the fact that the new conference is made of the toughest schedules year after year that WVU has ever had to face. Sorry but the facts about the BIG 12 don't change because you want to diminish coach Holgorsen and build up BS. The 2008 team was a top five team with a Heisman QB, an NFL RB and some other excellent players that had achieved great success under RR--and the truth is that in under a half a season, BS had reduced that to not even an also ran that struggled against bad power teams like a dismal Colorado and lost to mid majors like ECU. Coach Holgorsen proved what WVU should have been in the Big East, and now WVU has moved on--you probably need to as well instead of trying to rewrite history.

 

[Shipyard Dog]

Not sure why you feel the need to commit slander when you post.

Holgorsen didn't hire his "drinking buddy" he hired a respected and experienced coach.

It's a schoolyard bully mentality. The kid picks a taunt or nickname and sticks with it for the rest of his derpy life.

 

[Buckaineer]

According to realtime RPI in the Stewart / Holgorsen era:

2011 Big XII 2nd vs Big East 5th
2010 Big XII 2nd vs Big East 6th
2009 Big XII 4th vs Big East 2nd
2008 Big XII 1st vs Big East 3rd

Avg Big XII 2.25 vs Big East 4

Not a collossal difference

That is a significant difference. The two conferences were not on par except for 2009.

 

[xWVU2010x]

If didn't happen. The fact is Stewart had three chances and did nothing but take a top five program straight out of the rankings in less than half of a season. He never coached the program to a BCS bowl and certainly didn't win one with his coaching and staff as coach Holgorsen did.

You want coach Holgorsen to be less than he is and want the old Big East to be more than it is in order to glorify a coach that couldn't win the diminished and now defunct Big East.

The article by ESPN spelled out in a very fair manner what Holgorsen has faced--switching conferences, having a diminished roster that had to be built up and the fact that the new conference is made of the toughest schedules year after year that WVU has ever had to face. Sorry but the facts about the BIG 12 don't change because you want to diminish coach Holgorsen and build up BS. The 2008 team was a top five team with a Heisman QB, an NFL RB and some other excellent players that had achieved great success under RR--and the truth is that in under a half a season, BS had reduced that to not even an also ran that struggled against bad power teams like a dismal Colorado and lost to mid majors like ECU. Coach Holgorsen proved what WVU should have been in the Big East, and now WVU has moved on--you probably need to as well instead of trying to rewrite history.

Can you read sir? Im not building up Stewart, I wanted him gone as he was bad for the program, I was excited about the Holgorsen hire initially, but the FACTS are proving that Holgorsen likely would not have done any better than Stewart.

Losing to 5-6 Kansas State is probably worse than getting smacked by Syracuse in a bowl game both of which Holgorsen so gloriously accomplished. Lets also not forget how Holgorsen's garbage 2013 team is one of the few conference wins for Kansas this decade. Its not like Holgorsen is only failing against the league champion, he is failing against teams that would finish no higher than 4th in the conference you seem to get off on diminishing.

Basically your argument for DH being a good coach who hasnt gotten a fair shake vs. Stewart being a significantly lesser coach is that DH caught some breaks outside of his control in his rookie season while Stew did not. Magnificent agrument sir, please carry on.

 

[Buckaineer]

Can you read sir? Im not building up Stewart, I wanted him gone as he was bad for the program, I was excited about the Holgorsen hire initially, but the FACTS are proving that Holgorsen likely would not have done any better than Stewart.

Losing to 5-6 Kansas State is probably worse than getting smacked by Syracuse in a bowl game both of which Holgorsen so gloriously accomplished. Lets also not forget how Holgorsen's garbage 2013 team is one of the few conference wins for Kansas this decade. Its not like Holgorsen is only failing against the league champion, he is failing against teams that would finish no higher than 4th in the conference you seem to get off on diminishing.

Basically your argument for DH being a good coach who hasnt gotten a fair shake vs. Stewart being a significantly lesser coach is that DH caught some breaks outside of his control in his rookie season while Stew did not. Magnificent agrument sir, please carry on.

You are the one trying to pretend the ESPN article wasn't a fair assesment of coach Holgorsen's time at WVU.
You are trying to stretch the truth and play the "what if" game to make some meaningless point about a coach that is gone in order to try and diminish coach Holgorsen's accomplishments.

Truth is, BS had a chance to do what Holgorsen did in year one and could not with three times as many attempts at it. He also never won a BCS bowl in historic fashion, which of course you want to try to characterize as some fluke in order to diminish coach Holgorsen.

We get it, you don't like Holgorsen and won't like him no matter what he does. You can't rewrite the past though--or the facts. The facts show that WVU hasn't faced a conference situation like the BIG 12 nor schedules year to year as tough as the BIG 12 brings. The facts show WVU had to significantly improve depth after the previous coaching staff had depleted things. New coaching staffs, and players and venues all had to be accounted for under coach Holgorsen's watch. No matter how you attempt to discount those things, they are real and contributed to the situation. Instead of trying to pretend these things don't exist and haven't had an impact, its time to move on and try to build going forward rather than dwelling in a rewritten imaginary past.

 

[xWVU2010x]

That is a significant difference. The two conferences were not on par except for 2009.

Huge difference between 2.25 and 4th? Also note that was not the Big XII as it currently stands, since WVU joined this has been the rankings:

2015 3rd
2014 3rd
2013 4th
2012 2nd

Avg = 3rd

So we went from the 4th best conference over a 4 year haul to the 3rd best. Huge difference! Its now totally understandable how DH hasnt gotten any traction in 4 years and 5 years at WVU!

 

[skygusty_rivals]

Holgorsen needs to recruit a quarterback that we can eventually mention in the same breath as Jeff Hostetler, Marc Bulger, Major Harris, Pat White and Geno Smith. This continues to be a problem and next year looks no better. He is an average coach in a better than average conference who is never mentioned for coaching vacancies. He is neither awful or great. Not bad, not good. C average. The good news is that he can improve. The bad news is that he could get worse. Reality is that he is still the coach. A quarterback who has the potential of being an NFL draft pick would be a good start. I like Howard, he's tough, has a good attitude, but I don't see him playing on Sunday. I haven't seen much out of Crest that impresses. Sills caught a few balls in the first couple of games he played in, and Chugs is the dark horse riding the pine. Nehlen, RR, and Stewart all had at least one QB recruit that was REALLY good. DH has not yet done that.

 

[xWVU2010x]

You are the one trying to pretend the ESPN article wasn't a fair assesment of coach Holgorsen's time at WVU.
You are trying to stretch the truth and play the "what if" game to make some meaningless point about a coach that is gone in order to try and diminish coach Holgorsen's accomplishments.

Truth is, BS had a chance to do what Holgorsen did in year one and could not with three times as many attempts at it. He also never won a BCS bowl in historic fashion, which of course you want to try to characterize as some fluke in order to diminish coach Holgorsen.

We get it, you don't like Holgorsen and won't like him no matter what he does. You can't rewrite the past though--or the facts. The facts show that WVU hasn't faced a conference situation like the BIG 12 nor schedules year to year as tough as the BIG 12 brings. The facts show WVU had to significantly improve depth after the previous coaching staff had depleted things. New coaching staffs, and players and venues all had to be accounted for under coach Holgorsen's watch. No matter how you attempt to discount those things, they are real and contributed to the situation. Instead of trying to pretend these things don't exist and haven't had an impact, its time to move on and try to build going forward rather than dwelling in a rewritten imaginary past.

It was a fluke! Do you seriously think if we played a Clemson team that had Sammy Watkins, DeAndre Hopkins, Andre Ellington and Dwayne Allen on the same offense we would contain them 10x over AND drop 70? You're out of your mind! It was admittedly a masterful coaching job by DH, he in a vacuum came up with an excellent gameplan for the Orange Bowl, but the rest of the season he was underwhelming and no better than Stewart, and he has never consistently came up with great gameplans over the course of his career. We ended up in the same 3 way tie that Stewart did the year before, DH just beat the right teams, are you asserting that is somehow good coaching? The previous two seasons the Big East was owned by Cincy who had an excellent coach and some great players, we were not going to knock them off of their perch regardless of who we had coaching, our talent level was not good enough.

Holgorsen is playing teams that are of the same caliber as the old Big East teams.

Both coaches seem to be able to beat Maryland
Both coaches seem to be unable to take on elite opponents, atleast consistently
Both coaches have headscratcher losses to teams like Syracuse, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas Tech, etc
Both coaches took a team of similar talent to a 5-2 Big East record in years where the conference was similarly weak
Both coaches came up with a gameplan to nuke a much more talented team in a one game bowl scenario
Both coaches have also come up short in 3rd tier bowl games
Both coaches IMO are mediocre

 

[skygusty_rivals]

Hard to believe that a professional journalist and his editor do not know the difference between "mute" and "moot".

Sometimes I think all my points are moot. If I type them out and don't verbalize, are they technically mute?

 

[Buckaineer]

Huge difference between 2.25 and 4th? Also note that was not the Big XII as it currently stands, since WVU joined this has been the rankings:

2015 3rd
2014 3rd
2013 4th
2012 2nd

Avg = 3rd

So we went from the 4th best conference over a 4 year haul to the 3rd best. Huge difference! Its now totally understandable how DH hasnt gotten any traction in 4 years and 5 years at WVU!

There is no need to "average" things unless you are trying to manipulate the truth.
2nd (and places like ESPN said #1) compared to 5th or 6th and you claim that is basically the same?
There's only ONE year when the BIG 12 was rated comparatively or better than the BIG 12 and you try to stretch that to pretend that they were basically the same? Seriously, even in that year when the Big East did well, you can compare WVUs schedules and the BIG 12 schedule was tougher.

You don't get to play make believe to pretend the Big East was the same--no one involved in college football believes that.

 

[Buckaineer]

It was a fluke! Do you seriously think if we played a Clemson team that had Sammy Watkins, DeAndre Hopkins, Andre Ellington and Dwayne Allen on the same offense we would contain them 10x over AND drop 70? You're out of your mind! It was admittedly a masterful coaching job by DH, he in a vacuum came up with an excellent gameplan for the Orange Bowl, but the rest of the season he was underwhelming and no better than Stewart, and he has never consistently came up with great gameplans over the course of his career. We ended up in the same 3 way tie that Stewart did the year before, DH just beat the right teams, are you asserting that is somehow good coaching? The previous two seasons the Big East was owned by Cincy who had an excellent coach and some great players, we were not going to knock them off of their perch regardless of who we had coaching, our talent level was not good enough.

Holgorsen is playing teams that are of the same caliber as the old Big East teams.

Both coaches seem to be able to beat Maryland
Both coaches seem to be unable to take on elite opponents, atleast consistently
Both coaches have headscratcher losses to teams like Syracuse, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas Tech, etc
Both coaches took a team of similar talent to a 5-2 Big East record in years where the conference was similarly weak
Both coaches came up with a gameplan to nuke a much more talented team in a one game bowl scenario
Both coaches have also come up short in 3rd tier bowl games
Both coaches IMO are mediocre

Why are you talking about a team WVU did not play? The Clemson team WVU DID play was highly rated and highly favored and WVU SMOKED them in historic fashion.

Holgorsen was responsible for that, getting WVU in position to win a Big East championship and getting his team ready to beat Clemson. BS never got WVU in position to win the Big East and never got them to a BCS bowl.

After that year WVU switched to a much more difficult conference and had to rebuild a team for that conference which takes years to do. BS did not do that.

Your opinions are based not on real situations, but pretending the situation is flat and identical for either coach.
You are basing your determination on bogus information because there is little to nothing similar about the situations faced or the teams faced or the outcomes. ESPNs article painted an accurate picture of what coach Holgorsen faces at WVU and why its been very difficult to excel--you don't want to accept it but nothing they stated is untrue. He had a chance to show what he could do in the old Big East--and he did just that--won the conference in short order, took the team to a BCS bowl and crushed a heavily favored BCS conference champion. It was a season's worth of results, not a "one game" result as you want to change it to be. 10 wins, BCS conference championship and a major bowl victory over a heavily favored opponent in historic fashion. No matter how you slice it that isn't the same as working with someone else's coaching staff and players for one game.

 

[xWVU2010x]

There is no need to "average" things unless you are trying to manipulate the truth.
2nd (and places like ESPN said #1) compared to 5th or 6th and you claim that is basically the same?
There's only ONE year when the BIG 12 was rated comparatively or better than the BIG 12 and you try to stretch that to pretend that they were basically the same? Seriously, even in that year when the Big East did well, you can compare WVUs schedules and the BIG 12 schedule was tougher.

You don't get to play make believe to pretend the Big East was the same--no one involved in college football believes that.

Yes I will compare the two. Compare draft picks, compare H2H, comapre records against AQ leagues. The only place where the Big East fell behind was perception, because everyone involved in college football media is a complete blowhard incentivized to trump up certain teams and conferences. In college football a season typically plays out like this:

1 team has a ridiculous compilation of talent and is deemed unbeatable (Alabama and some record breaking number of 1st round draft picks typically fits this bill)
maybe 4-5 teams are "contenders" they either have a great QB, or a collection of elite skill position players that are flashy (think Oregon/TCU/OU/Baylor)
Then theres about 20 good teams that are all interchangeable
Then theres a tier of 50 teams who on their best day can spring an upset
Then theres miles of crap

The Big East had minimal crap and 7-8 teams in the good/upset tier. The difference between them and the Big XII is that they seldom had a contender.

 

[TexasforevEER]

I will speak for Coach Stewart today. He was a very credible coach and a person of high morals. He was not perfect and fought back when attacked by folks that sought to take away something he worked hard for. You and I would do the same..............not being perfect and all. Warez

 

[Buckaineer]

Yes I will compare the two. Compare draft picks, compare H2H, comapre records against AQ leagues. The only place where the Big East fell behind was perception, because everyone involved in college football media is a complete blowhard incentivized to trump up certain teams and conferences. In college football a season typically plays out like this:

1 team has a ridiculous compilation of talent and is deemed unbeatable (Alabama and some record breaking number of 1st round draft picks typically fits this bill)
maybe 4-5 teams are "contenders" they either have a great QB, or a collection of elite skill position players that are flashy (think Oregon/TCU/OU/Baylor)
Then theres about 20 good teams that are all interchangeable
Then theres a tier of 50 teams who on their best day can spring an upset
Then theres miles of crap

The Big East had minimal crap and 7-8 teams in the good/upset tier. The difference between them and the Big XII is that they seldom had a contender.

In what year in the last incarnation of the Big East--and probably the first as well, did WVU face a schedule made of of four top 15 teams--a few in the national championship hunt all season and 30-1 going into November, along with 3 or 4 other teams with equal talent to WVU? Never. You just don't want to accept reality.

Even in the one great year for the new Big East, you had one really good team in Cincinnati at #3 and a #16 and #17 ranked WVU and Pitt and #44 Uconn in the final BCS results compared to #2 Texas, #19 OSU, #22 Nebraska, #34 Texas Tech, #38 Oklahoma, and #39 Missouri in comparison.

 

[xWVU2010x]

In what year in the last incarnation of the Big East--and probably the first as well, did WVU face a schedule made of of four top 15 teams--a few in the national championship hunt all season and 30-1 going into November, along with 3 or 4 other teams with equal talent to WVU? Never. You just don't want to accept reality.

Even in the one great year for the new Big East, you had one really good team in Cincinnati at #3 and a #16 and #17 ranked WVU and Pitt and #44 Uconn in the final BCS results compared to #2 Texas, #19 OSU, #22 Nebraska, #34 Texas Tech, #38 Oklahoma, and #39 Missouri in comparison.

You're comparing a much larger conference (12 teams) to the Big East, it ultimately will have more ranked teams, but WVU if they were in the Big XII during any of the seasons cited likely never would have faced any more than 3 ranked teams, this year was an anomaly, in the balanced 10 team conference that is the Big XII there should never be 4 teams ranked as high as they are unless the bottom 6 are unable to beat the top 4 which is basically what happened this year. You keep looking at the top of the conference, like every other bimbo on ESPN and use that to justify the strength of the conference/schedule. We went 7-5 against 1 contender (OU) 3 good teams (TCU/OSU/Baylor) 3 teams that are dangerous (Tech/Texas/KSU) and 5 absolute crap teams (KU/ISU/Maryland/GSU/Liberty). SO against teams with a pulse and better we were 2-5. In year 5 at WVU and year 4 of the Big XII... Pathetic

 

[Buckaineer]

You're comparing a much larger conference (12 teams) to the Big East, it ultimately will have more ranked teams, but WVU if they were in the Big XII during any of the seasons cited likely never would have faced any more than 3 ranked teams, this year was an anomaly, in the balanced 10 team conference that is the Big XII there should never be 4 teams ranked as high as they are unless the bottom 6 are unable to beat the top 4 which is basically what happened this year. You keep looking at the top of the conference, like every other bimbo on ESPN and use that to justify the strength of the conference/schedule. We went 7-5 against 1 contender (OU) 3 good teams (TCU/OSU/Baylor) 3 teams that are dangerous (Tech/Texas/KSU) and 5 absolute crap teams (KU/ISU/Maryland/GSU/Liberty). SO against teams with a pulse and better we were 2-5. In year 5 at WVU and year 4 of the Big XII... Pathetic

You are the one that initiated a comparison and made a bogus claim of the two conferences being a wash.

The conference coach Holgorsen just finished up a season in had more top ten and fifteen teams and teams competing for a championship than the Big East ever had--and was as deep and talented (or moreso) as WVU all the way down to two schools. Its not a flat even no difference situation for WVU, and unfortunately the results haven't been what WVU fans would love to have overall as a result. It is more than misleading to claim the teams that WVU is playing don't have a pulse. I.e. did Texas Tech have a pulse when they beat Arkansas at Arkansas by double digits--a team that went on to beat many SEC "powers"--or do they just not have a pulse in your mind because they also lost to some outstanding BIG 12 competition? Same for Kansas State with narrow losses to an excellent TCU squad among others.

Again you are trying to compare teams while ignoring the facts at the same time. The teams aren't the same because they have the same record--who did they play and how did they play in the games?

Seriously, is a 9-4 Rutgers team that beat 1-AA Howard, 3-9 FIU, 1-AA Texas Southern, 5-7 Army, and 4-8 Louisville but lost to 4-8 Syracuse and finished 4th in that best 2009 Big East really comparable in your mind to the BIG 12s # 4 Baylor of this season? The BIG 12 is a different animal.

 

[GoWVU]

The defense didn't work out that year in large part due to lack of personnel and depth from the previous regime as well as the level of competition faced.

If your assessment of blame is correct, then why did Holgorsen make a change at the DC position after that season?

 

[xWVU2010x]

You are the one that initiated a comparison and made a bogus claim of the two conferences being a wash.

The conference coach Holgorsen just finished up a season in had more top ten and fifteen teams and teams competing for a championship than the Big East ever had--and was as deep and talented (or moreso) as WVU all the way down to two schools. Its not a flat even no difference situation for WVU, and unfortunately the results haven't been what WVU fans would love to have overall as a result. It is more than misleading to claim the teams that WVU is playing don't have a pulse. I.e. did Texas Tech have a pulse when they beat Arkansas at Arkansas by double digits--a team that went on to beat many SEC "powers"--or do they just not have a pulse in your mind because they also lost to some outstanding BIG 12 competition? Same for Kansas State with narrow losses to an excellent TCU squad among others.

Again you are trying to compare teams while ignoring the facts at the same time. The teams aren't the same because they have the same record--who did they play and how did they play in the games?

Seriously, is a 9-4 Rutgers team that beat 1-AA Howard, 3-9 FIU, 1-AA Texas Southern, 5-7 Army, and 4-8 Louisville but lost to 4-8 Syracuse and finished 4th in that best 2009 Big East really comparable in your mind to the BIG 12s # 4 Baylor of this season? The BIG 12 is a different animal.

They are statistically a wash from 3-10 and 3-8 more often than not, Ive proven it already, you can look up any stats you want. Depending on the year there was typically either a slight or huge edge to the Big XII for teams 1 and 2, which did indeed make it a better overall league, but it is not this impossible gauntlet that we jumped into like you are making it seem. We typically play 7 beatable teams on paper on an annual basis in the Big XII.

You refuse to accept it and Im done trying help you see it. Most of the teams in the old Big East could have easily played our schedule and went 7-5 this year. We played 5 gimme games for any halfway decent program, winning 2 of 7 with 3 .500 opponents on the slate is not a herculean task. I would argue that 2009 Cincy would have beaten everyone other than OU.

 

[Buckaineer]

If your assessment of blame is correct, then why did Holgorsen make a change at the DC position after that season?

Because he had to.

 

[Buckaineer]

They are statistically a wash from 3-10 and 3-8 more often than not, Ive proven it already, you can look up any stats you want. Depending on the year there was typically either a slight or huge edge to the Big XII for teams 1 and 2, which did indeed make it a better overall league, but it is not this impossible gauntlet that we jumped into like you are making it seem. We typically play 7 beatable teams on paper on an annual basis in the Big XII.

You refuse to accept it and Im done trying help you see it. Most of the teams in the old Big East could have easily played our schedule and went 7-5 this year. We played 5 gimme games for any halfway decent program, winning 2 of 7 with 3 .500 opponents on the slate is not a herculean task. I would argue that 2009 Cincy would have beaten everyone other than OU.

You are nuts.