Holy **** - the Thunder lost last night?...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
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Both run very few set plays and the chaos is magnified in the closing minutes. I quit watching last night as well, but in Game 3 I think Durant had like one shot the last 4 minutes. A similar thing happened in an earlier playoff game. At times they look absolutely lost on offense.
They just happen to have two really good one on one scorers in Westbrook and Durant
They just happen to have two really good one on one scorers in Westbrook and Durant
I was tired, Durant drills a three a to go up 15, I couldn't remember the last time Dallas got a rebound, Barrea was the only one taking any shots for Dallas, and it looked like Durant had completely taken over. What the heck happened? I guess Dirk went to work.
Westbrook is good for the first 40 or so minutes of a game. The last 5 minutes or so, he needs to sit and let Maynor play with Durant and Harden.
When it gets crunch time, Durant needs the touches. Westbrook doesn't get that. To top that off, his weakness is the half court offense, and usually in the final minutes of NBA games it settles into a lot of half court.
He's a good player, but he kills OKC. It's no coincidence that the one game OKC won is the game that Westbrook sat the entire 4th quarter. He reminds me a lot of Chris Warren, not in the way he plays, but in the way that he's a scoring point guard that often doesn't understand when it's best to be a facilitator.
You are right on Brooks too. The NBA may be a pick and roll league, but they don't even do that very well.
When it gets crunch time, Durant needs the touches. Westbrook doesn't get that. To top that off, his weakness is the half court offense, and usually in the final minutes of NBA games it settles into a lot of half court.
He's a good player, but he kills OKC. It's no coincidence that the one game OKC won is the game that Westbrook sat the entire 4th quarter. He reminds me a lot of Chris Warren, not in the way he plays, but in the way that he's a scoring point guard that often doesn't understand when it's best to be a facilitator.
You are right on Brooks too. The NBA may be a pick and roll league, but they don't even do that very well.
OKC just does not have enough offense outside of Durant and Westbrook. When Harden was out of the game the last few minutes and OT, Durant was relentlessly double teamed andno one else could create their own shot besides Westbrook who proceeded to choke. Westbrook also bricked two free throws that could have put it away with under a minute to go in regulation.
Though I think Westbrook CAN become that if he'll learn his role.
With a team as athletic as they are, having him for running breaks is a great asset. They just need him to learn how to handle the final minutes of the game, and they need him to learn when to pass and when to shoot.
Also, he needs to learn that the jump shot is not, nor does it need to be, a part of his arsenal.
It would also help a little bit if Durant would develop more of a killer instinct. For a guy as good as he is, he needs to be playing selfish basketball in the 4th quarter of tight games. Durant will occasionally show that, but not often enough. He needs to watch old game tapes of MJ. If he'll develop that killer instinct, he can be as good as anyone that's ever played the game. 6'-10 with that athleticism and that jump shot will make him one of the greatest of all time if he'll just develop the killer instinct.
With a team as athletic as they are, having him for running breaks is a great asset. They just need him to learn how to handle the final minutes of the game, and they need him to learn when to pass and when to shoot.
Also, he needs to learn that the jump shot is not, nor does it need to be, a part of his arsenal.
It would also help a little bit if Durant would develop more of a killer instinct. For a guy as good as he is, he needs to be playing selfish basketball in the 4th quarter of tight games. Durant will occasionally show that, but not often enough. He needs to watch old game tapes of MJ. If he'll develop that killer instinct, he can be as good as anyone that's ever played the game. 6'-10 with that athleticism and that jump shot will make him one of the greatest of all time if he'll just develop the killer instinct.
but Durant was also a big part of the reason that they blew their lead last night. He forced several really bad shots during the end of regulation and OT, and one of them almost cost them the game before they even made it to OT. After Westbrook handed him the ball to win it, Durant tried to jack up a 25 foot three pointer through a double team with more than 3 seconds left on the clock. After getting it swatted, Kidd called a quick TO and Dallas had a shot to win it after being able to advance the ball to their end of the court.
I'm no big fan of Westbrook by any means but having watched the complete meltdown last night, I thought that it was a collective effort from the entire OKC team. When Dirk got hot, they basically threw their entire offense out the window and both Westbrook and Durant started trying to win the game by themselves. Westbrook was no surprise, but I was really shocked at how quickly and easily that Durant lost his focus. I agree with you that he needs to develop a killer instinct, but he also needs to learn that demanding the ball and jacking up 20 footers through a double team are two entirely different things. He'll get it eventually, but I also wonder if Westbrook will still be around when he does. With the emergence of Harden in the playoffs, their need for a scoring point guard has greatly diminished and like you said, they still have Maynor on the bench if they do want to go that route.
I'm no big fan of Westbrook by any means but having watched the complete meltdown last night, I thought that it was a collective effort from the entire OKC team. When Dirk got hot, they basically threw their entire offense out the window and both Westbrook and Durant started trying to win the game by themselves. Westbrook was no surprise, but I was really shocked at how quickly and easily that Durant lost his focus. I agree with you that he needs to develop a killer instinct, but he also needs to learn that demanding the ball and jacking up 20 footers through a double team are two entirely different things. He'll get it eventually, but I also wonder if Westbrook will still be around when he does. With the emergence of Harden in the playoffs, their need for a scoring point guard has greatly diminished and like you said, they still have Maynor on the bench if they do want to go that route.
Durant desperately needs to learn at least a high post game like Dirk has. Barkley was talking about it the other night. You can guard Durant with smaller players b/c he tries to do everything off the dribble. Dirk gets to spots and then creates from there and uses court position more than moves off the dribble.
And that's really the Thunder's main problem...almost everything is created off the dribble. It works well a lot, but late in teh game you have to be able to execute some stuff away from the ball and as we've seen, they have trouble scoring late in close games. Even that 3OT win at Memphis, they had a ton of changes to win late in some of those sessions and couldn't get a good shot.
It really looks a ton like Stans offense...we look ok most of the time but prone to long dry stretches and have difficulty executing anything in the half court when the game is on the line. Thus, like our MSU, they are usually ended up with terrible shots late.
And that's really the Thunder's main problem...almost everything is created off the dribble. It works well a lot, but late in teh game you have to be able to execute some stuff away from the ball and as we've seen, they have trouble scoring late in close games. Even that 3OT win at Memphis, they had a ton of changes to win late in some of those sessions and couldn't get a good shot.
It really looks a ton like Stans offense...we look ok most of the time but prone to long dry stretches and have difficulty executing anything in the half court when the game is on the line. Thus, like our MSU, they are usually ended up with terrible shots late.
On that note, Durant is still young, like you say. MJ didn't have the discipline that he developed later in his career when he was only 22.
There is still time for Durant, and I think he'll get there. Same can be said for Westbrook, though he's not going to be an MJ. He'll be more of a Chris Paul when he learns smart basketball.
It's tough for a lot of these guys early on because they have to adjust to learning not only how to get their shot but when to pass and when to shoot. Zach Randolph is a good example of someone who is finally getting it. He still forces shots on occasion, but generally he has learned the difference between a good shot and a bad shot.
Basketball, when you break it down, is a pretty simple game. The goal is to get the highest percentage shots possible and get more shots than the other team. Every turnover is a shot attempt lost. Every rebound is either a shot attempt gained or at least a shot attempt you kept away from your opponent. If you take care of the basketball, work to get good looks every possession, rebound, and make the opponent work when they have the ball, you'll win a lot of games. You'll have hot and cold nights, but you can control the rest. That's what frustrates me watching most college basketball teams, especially the SEC. There is zero value placed on the basketball. Players are careless and jack up wild playground shots way too often. The game is a joke these days in the SEC, and it's hardly watchable. I've grown to like the NBA though because the best teams understand the value of the basketball.
There is still time for Durant, and I think he'll get there. Same can be said for Westbrook, though he's not going to be an MJ. He'll be more of a Chris Paul when he learns smart basketball.
It's tough for a lot of these guys early on because they have to adjust to learning not only how to get their shot but when to pass and when to shoot. Zach Randolph is a good example of someone who is finally getting it. He still forces shots on occasion, but generally he has learned the difference between a good shot and a bad shot.
Basketball, when you break it down, is a pretty simple game. The goal is to get the highest percentage shots possible and get more shots than the other team. Every turnover is a shot attempt lost. Every rebound is either a shot attempt gained or at least a shot attempt you kept away from your opponent. If you take care of the basketball, work to get good looks every possession, rebound, and make the opponent work when they have the ball, you'll win a lot of games. You'll have hot and cold nights, but you can control the rest. That's what frustrates me watching most college basketball teams, especially the SEC. There is zero value placed on the basketball. Players are careless and jack up wild playground shots way too often. The game is a joke these days in the SEC, and it's hardly watchable. I've grown to like the NBA though because the best teams understand the value of the basketball.
Oh yeah, both Durant and Westbrook (and Harden and Ibaka) are young so they'll learn and mature. However, the fact that the coaches don't have some "go-to" set plays to get Durant a good shot during crunch time is hard to understand. Giving him the ball at the time line is not going to get it done most of the time.
about people who don't bother to watch a single NBA game, yet they'll tell you that the NBA is nothing but thugs who don't play defense.
If any of those people would bother to watch one playoff series, they'd be hard pressed to find a group of athletes that are better at what they do anywhere in the world.
The one thing I will say about the NBA is that it does often turn into a two man game, mainly because of the limited shot clock, and it often breaks down into a one on one game when it gets late in the shot clock, but it's clear to watch good basketball versus bad basketball.
To win in the NBA, you can't just have talent. You have to play good basketball too and understand the value of each possession on both ends of the floor.
That's a big reason the Grizzlies made their step forward late this year. Mike Conley in particular finally figured it out. He became an efficient point guard, and they increased Tony Allen's minutes which increased their value on the defensive end.
Even the talented teams like the Heat had to figure out how to play together, and of all people, it appears Udonis Haslem is going to make the difference between them taking maybe a 2nd round exit and possibly winning an NBA title. You need all the pieces AND you have to play smart basketball. The team that wins is the team that controls turnovers/rebounds and the team that is able to get the best shots and force the toughest shots on defense. Simple game. Watching it played well makes me loathe SEC basketball that much more.
To win in the NBA, you can't just have talent. You have to play good basketball too and understand the value of each possession on both ends of the floor.
That's a big reason the Grizzlies made their step forward late this year. Mike Conley in particular finally figured it out. He became an efficient point guard, and they increased Tony Allen's minutes which increased their value on the defensive end.
Even the talented teams like the Heat had to figure out how to play together, and of all people, it appears Udonis Haslem is going to make the difference between them taking maybe a 2nd round exit and possibly winning an NBA title. You need all the pieces AND you have to play smart basketball. The team that wins is the team that controls turnovers/rebounds and the team that is able to get the best shots and force the toughest shots on defense. Simple game. Watching it played well makes me loathe SEC basketball that much more.
Irondawg said:
That gets me. Where are the plays for Durant? Outside of bringing him up to set a pick and try to roll, where are the plays to try to get him the ball in his spots.
Even with MJ when he was so good late in his career, the Bulls would work to get him the ball posted up at his spot, so he could back a guy down and pull the fade away falling away from the double team that was guaranteed to come. He didn't just get the ball at half court and drive to a spot. I haven't been that impressed with Scott Brooks. The best offense for OKC is running the fast break off misses and turnovers. If you force them into a half court game, they are nearly inept. With guys like Durant, Harden, and Westbrook on the perimeter, it should be easy to create good looks for the rest of the team.
RebelBruiser said:
This also describes Miami with Spoelestra. The Heat have no offense at all. Their offense is "Hey Dwayne/LeBron, do something". Fortunately for them, they out talent most teams.
It seems like alot of today's NBA coaches that have a superstar on the team just sit back and ride their coat tails. Carlisle for Dallas does a good job of incorporating a superstar into the offense and still getting others involved.
Even though Harden fouled out, it didn't make any sense to me why we weren't able to generate any offense even still. We weren't setting any good plays (hell, if you could even call those plays) for Durant. I've more or less chocked this up to inexperience on the team as a whole (players and coaches). We weren't setting any good plays for Durant nor were we getting him the ball in the best position. Also, he wasn't taking shots at good looks either. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but I still don't really agree with everything I've seen here on Westbrook but he didn't do as much as I feel he should to help us towards the end. Like that comment about him not needing that midrage jumper... that makes no sense to me at all... If it makes him a better player in the long run why should he not develop it? Also, he does give Durant the ball more than people want to give him credit for. <div>RebelBruiser said:
</div><div>Either way I digress... This was just a complete meltdown. The only positive I can see from it is that they're getting some experience that teams this young usually never see. I wasn't as mad as I thought I would be baring the results. Dallas and Dirk are just unreal and to be honest I really would like to see Dirk and Kidd finally get them a ring, but I don't like to see them go through us. I also can't believe they beat us twice at home. I never would've believed it if someone told me they would do that.</div>
It's not that I don't think Westbrook needs to develop his midrange game. He does, but he doesn't have it at a consistent enough level yet. He can add it to his arsenal, but for right now, teams are going to be happy to force him into jump shots because that's the weakest part of his game.
but if there ever was a truly unguardable shot, it's Dirk's patented rainbow fadeaway in the post. He's a legit 7 footer, he has what I feel is the highest release point in the league, and then he's falling back on top of that. The only shot in hell that you have at actually defending that is to leap towards him as soon as he starts his spin, but then you open it up for him simply pull the ball down and lean into you to take the foul. If Durant adds this to his aresenal, look out.