How about the Big 10?
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Dr.
My head will never explode over something on this board. As I stated from the beginning, I am a SEC fan but I don't buy that the SEC is the best conference BS. I feel that the "best conference" statement on ANY level is BS. I don't agree with it in High School, College or Pro's. I absolutely feel that the SEC has 4 schools that will be in the running for number 1 any given year but that is where it stops. Where you lost me was your attempt to belittle someone you don't know because I disagreed with you. How is that respectable? Once you resort to that I am usually done with the discussion. I am always up for a good debate without any name calling.
Finally, if Montini moved to the CCL Blue and challenged LA or MC for the title two of their first three year in the league, wouldn't you question the "best conference" theory?
My head will never explode over something on this board. As I stated from the beginning, I am a SEC fan but I don't buy that the SEC is the best conference BS. I feel that the "best conference" statement on ANY level is BS. I don't agree with it in High School, College or Pro's. I absolutely feel that the SEC has 4 schools that will be in the running for number 1 any given year but that is where it stops. Where you lost me was your attempt to belittle someone you don't know because I disagreed with you. How is that respectable? Once you resort to that I am usually done with the discussion. I am always up for a good debate without any name calling.
Finally, if Montini moved to the CCL Blue and challenged LA or MC for the title two of their first three year in the league, wouldn't you question the "best conference" theory?
LHS:
Yes maybe I did step over the line in my response to you. For that I apologize. I said your haed was exploding it was in response to you completely bold post. Like you were shouting. Again, I am sorry I got personal with you. Hopefully we can move forward from that. Now back to football.
I just don't get your logic in Missouri not being qualified to play in the SEC championship because they lost to Indiana. If you know and understand the SEC then you know it's divided into two divisions. You also know that the West is far better than the East. You also know that whoever wins the West plays the winner of the East for the conference title. So, Missouri's only real challenge until Florida gets back on track would be Georgia.
Well Georgia didn't get it done this year and Missouri won the East division, which by the SEC rules qualified them to play in the championship game. Now, does that mean I think they were the second best team in the SEC because they lost the championship game? No, not at all. I thought Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Auburn and LSU were all better and of course Alabama was much better. Now suppose Missouri had upset Alabama.
But just because Missouri played in the championship game and wasn't that good in your mind isn't an indictment on the whole conference. Until the rule changes, this is how it is.
Yes maybe I did step over the line in my response to you. For that I apologize. I said your haed was exploding it was in response to you completely bold post. Like you were shouting. Again, I am sorry I got personal with you. Hopefully we can move forward from that. Now back to football.
I just don't get your logic in Missouri not being qualified to play in the SEC championship because they lost to Indiana. If you know and understand the SEC then you know it's divided into two divisions. You also know that the West is far better than the East. You also know that whoever wins the West plays the winner of the East for the conference title. So, Missouri's only real challenge until Florida gets back on track would be Georgia.
Well Georgia didn't get it done this year and Missouri won the East division, which by the SEC rules qualified them to play in the championship game. Now, does that mean I think they were the second best team in the SEC because they lost the championship game? No, not at all. I thought Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Auburn and LSU were all better and of course Alabama was much better. Now suppose Missouri had upset Alabama.
But just because Missouri played in the championship game and wasn't that good in your mind isn't an indictment on the whole conference. Until the rule changes, this is how it is.
Again, how are you an SEC fan? What school?
Also, as I've stated before, you are a nut.
Lastly, the SEC is not the best conference in the land this season. That would require them to A. Win the majority of their major bowls, or at least B. Have the top team. The last 9 years? Sure. Not this season...
Also, as I've stated before, you are a nut.
Lastly, the SEC is not the best conference in the land this season. That would require them to A. Win the majority of their major bowls, or at least B. Have the top team. The last 9 years? Sure. Not this season...
SEC this year = Schools eating crow.
Happens to the best of them.
Things move in cycles.
SEC recent success based on a number of factors that work in their favor.
Here are a few that can be pointed out fairly easily:
Regional interest---football is by far the # 1 sport in the majority of their home states.
There was a time when Illinois had spring football etc. but interest has shifted here and in other states.
Coaching --- Alabama was pretty moribund before the arrival of Saban.
Looks like the guy at Miss. State has done a great job & a few others as well.
Change in racial attitudes --black players now make up about 80% of the rosters in the SEC.
Wasn't too long ago they couldn't even get through the front door much less a scholarship.
All that being said I'd guess most of the Big 10/Pac 12 have done pretty well lifetime vs. the SEC.
I know ND has a winning record all time against both LSU and Alabama and the entire conference.
I think Georgia is the only team that holds the edge against the Irish and that's just 1-0.
Like all the teams we follow the best advice I ever heard was to be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
Right now a few of my SEC friends are having a very hard time with the latter.
This post was edited on 1/6 4:16 PM by Gaelman
Happens to the best of them.
Things move in cycles.
SEC recent success based on a number of factors that work in their favor.
Here are a few that can be pointed out fairly easily:
Regional interest---football is by far the # 1 sport in the majority of their home states.
There was a time when Illinois had spring football etc. but interest has shifted here and in other states.
Coaching --- Alabama was pretty moribund before the arrival of Saban.
Looks like the guy at Miss. State has done a great job & a few others as well.
Change in racial attitudes --black players now make up about 80% of the rosters in the SEC.
Wasn't too long ago they couldn't even get through the front door much less a scholarship.
All that being said I'd guess most of the Big 10/Pac 12 have done pretty well lifetime vs. the SEC.
I know ND has a winning record all time against both LSU and Alabama and the entire conference.
I think Georgia is the only team that holds the edge against the Irish and that's just 1-0.
Like all the teams we follow the best advice I ever heard was to be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
Right now a few of my SEC friends are having a very hard time with the latter.
This post was edited on 1/6 4:16 PM by Gaelman
The bold print was a copy and paste job from the source I was using. I would never take the time to bold anything intentionally. I will apologize for misleading the discussion. Now to Missouri.
I happen to know a lot about Mizzou football. Going back deeper than the last 3 years in the SEC. Everyone thought it was a bold move that could have a negative affect on recruiting. The earliest anyone saw Mizzou actually competing in the SEC was 5 years at best. When I say competing, I am talking a .500 in the conference. Right now, Mizzou has done better in the SEC than it did for years in the Big 12. I was a huge deal a few years ago when they finally made the Big 12 Championship in which OU had a field day. Not only has Mizzou made it to the championship, the Auburn went to late in the 4th quarter and this year Alabama went late into the 3rd quarter. That being said, If the SEC conference was so great, I don't care who is down Florida, Tennessee, and Georgia last year, Mizzou should have a favorable record in the conference. I think it is nice to have this success but Mizzou was equivalent to maybe Tennessee or worse in the Big 12. They were a tough out but definitely not competing for the Conference Championship yearly. I would also add that school like Texas and OU had their way with Mizzou with Nebraska being the constant good showing for Mizzou.
Now you tell me how is Nebraska doing in the Big 10. Nebraska and Mizzou routinely competed with Nebraska winning a majority of the time. Both left the Big 12 three years ago and Mizzou is a one lost team in the SEC East consistently while Nebraska only shot at the big 10 title was based on OSU being on probation. You tell me why I can't use Mizzou as an example when discussing such a dominant conference as the SEC. Like I said Alambama, LSU, Auburn and Florida (Urban's team) any given year will give teams Nightmares leading up to the championship and in most cases they will be crowned champs. The rest of the schools are all hype based on the four mentioned above. Another example of Steve Spurrier who as the hype in the world as has only 1 I repeat 1 National title. I love watching the SEC play but I don't drink the Kool aid.
Similar to how everyone brags on Coach K in basketball while Calhoun at UConn OWNS coach K but don't get near as much hype.
I happen to know a lot about Mizzou football. Going back deeper than the last 3 years in the SEC. Everyone thought it was a bold move that could have a negative affect on recruiting. The earliest anyone saw Mizzou actually competing in the SEC was 5 years at best. When I say competing, I am talking a .500 in the conference. Right now, Mizzou has done better in the SEC than it did for years in the Big 12. I was a huge deal a few years ago when they finally made the Big 12 Championship in which OU had a field day. Not only has Mizzou made it to the championship, the Auburn went to late in the 4th quarter and this year Alabama went late into the 3rd quarter. That being said, If the SEC conference was so great, I don't care who is down Florida, Tennessee, and Georgia last year, Mizzou should have a favorable record in the conference. I think it is nice to have this success but Mizzou was equivalent to maybe Tennessee or worse in the Big 12. They were a tough out but definitely not competing for the Conference Championship yearly. I would also add that school like Texas and OU had their way with Mizzou with Nebraska being the constant good showing for Mizzou.
Now you tell me how is Nebraska doing in the Big 10. Nebraska and Mizzou routinely competed with Nebraska winning a majority of the time. Both left the Big 12 three years ago and Mizzou is a one lost team in the SEC East consistently while Nebraska only shot at the big 10 title was based on OSU being on probation. You tell me why I can't use Mizzou as an example when discussing such a dominant conference as the SEC. Like I said Alambama, LSU, Auburn and Florida (Urban's team) any given year will give teams Nightmares leading up to the championship and in most cases they will be crowned champs. The rest of the schools are all hype based on the four mentioned above. Another example of Steve Spurrier who as the hype in the world as has only 1 I repeat 1 National title. I love watching the SEC play but I don't drink the Kool aid.
Similar to how everyone brags on Coach K in basketball while Calhoun at UConn OWNS coach K but don't get near as much hype.
Yup that was a real thumping.Originally posted by SiuCubFan8:
Remember when Alabama crushed ND a few years ago? Ya, that was great.
Kinda like the one ND gave the Crimson Tide in 1987 when the Irish won 37-6.
As I said, things move in cycles.
One game does not a dynasty make.
This year I very much enjoyed watching OSU beat the invincible Tide...and doing it with their 3rd string QB!!!
Nothing is forever. Who knows, things may turn around next year but I'm savoring the angst from down south.
Oh how the mighty have fallen---again, a 3rd string QB brings down the mighty Saban!!!
ND is 5-2 all time vs. Alabama.
The SEC all time record against the Big 10 is 83-57-2 including 46-28 in bowl games.
The SEC has a total record against the Pac 12 of 68-40-5 including 8-7-1 in bowl games.
The only conference with a winning record against the SEC is the Big East and they are 25-29 against them.
Gaelman:
True, and a handful of the losses ND incurred were under some coaches who were unqualified disasters at the helm in SB.
There are very few schools which have winning records against us. FSU and Georgia are two; Michigan is another. The bias against ND has reached the absurd. Case in point: The AFCA Coach of the Year award has been awarded to two coaches three times in the past, in 1964, 1970 and 2001. In 1970, the award was shared by Texas' Darrell Royal and LSU's Charles McLendon.
ND's Ara Parseghian beat BOTH LSU and Texas in 1970 and Parseghian was not named COY.
ND's win over previously undefeated Texas in the Cotton Bowl in 1970 did not prevent the writers or coaches polls from giving Texas the nod for the National Title in 1970. ND's only loss was to USC in LA to end the regular season. This loss was to a John McKay-led USC team, which was the dirtiest program in the country until the NCAA shut the rotten edifice down in 1982, forcing John Robinson out and sending Marv Goux to the football equivalent of the Gulags. After ND pummeled USC 51-0 in LA in 1966, McKay vowed he'd never lose to ND again and USC embarked on a crusade to illegally recruit any player thinking of attending ND. McKay went to far as to install a phone in the athletic office to illegally grant admission to football athletes. The NCAA forced the phone company to "discontinue" phone service in 1981. The ensuing NCAA investigation concluded UCS had admitted over TWO-HUNDRED football athletes who otherwise would not have been accepted under normal academic standards set by the university.
Fast forward to 1973: In front of a national audience, ND beat Alabama head-to-head and the UPI poll STILL CROWNED ALABAMA THE TITLE!
After losing to ND in 1973, the AFCA named Bryant COY................Parseghian took the title, which is quite an appropriate consolation prize.
It will also be of interest to those who inquire about ND's bowl record. True, as of late, we have performed rather poorly. However, between the mid-20s and 1969, a period of approximately forty-five years, ND did not participate in bowl games for academic reasons, a policy shared only by the service academies.
Clements to Weber......case closed.
Dr. M,
Do you understand my point of view on SEC based on Mizzou success?
This post was edited on 1/7 10:27 AM by LHSTigers94
Do you understand my point of view on SEC based on Mizzou success?
This post was edited on 1/7 10:27 AM by LHSTigers94
MWittman:
I had a feeling when Notre Dame came into the conversation you would turn up. I read your post with great interest. I am curious to know if you are a graduate of ND or a non-graduate fan. I ask because I have a hunch you may be a grad.
Anyway, living in northern Illinois, like everyone else, I know a lot of ND fans, grads, a few ex-players, etc. I also know a lot of Big 10 fans, grads, a few ex-players, etc. as well. What I have learned from the ND conversations I have had over several years (40 or so) is that about 90%+ of the people I have talked to either hate or love ND. There really isn't much middle ground at all. I am wondering if you agree. Well, I happen to be in the middle ground category. I neither love nor hate ND.
I separate Notre Dame from the Big 10. First of all I have tremendous respect for ND. I really don't find them to be overrated most of the time. But there are times when every team is overrated. I couldn't find any conference that, as a whole, has a winning record against ND. That is impressive. I have watched ND over the years beat SEC teams and always felt they did it with class.
I gained respect for ND years ago. One of the most classic games I remember is the 11/15/1980 nationally televised game between ND and Alabama. If I remember correctly I believe that game was played in Alabama. Anyway, when I was away at college, I was dating a girl who was from the east and her dad was a ND grad and the most avid ND fan I ever knew. Her dad and I watched that game in their family room. Throughout the entire game he paced back and forth in front of the couch. I silently rooted for Alabama.
ND won that game 7-0. There were a lot of twists and turns. But when the game ended he was the most humble guy you ever saw. He said ND beat a real good team that day. Of course he was happy and I didn't take that loss too hard. He knew I wanted Alabama to win. When ND won he never said anything about Alabama being overrated, etc. He was gracious with the victory. I leared a lot that day as a young man from him. That was the day my respect for ND began. Over the years when ND had to get it done they usually did.
After a long period of bowl game defeats ND has won 4 of their last 6. That's not bad at all. When they played Alabama in the national championship game a couple of years ago I have to admit I was nervous before the game. I felt Alabama was better but with ND you just never know. I learned that in the past.
I have no animosity toward ND at all, even though they have beaten the SEC overall. That's a good program and an excellent school. I think it is good for college football when Notre Dame has a strong team. I would think those in the Big 10 would ask them what their secret is in beating the SEC. It might help.
This post was edited on 1/7 10:23 AM by Dr. Mirakle
I had a feeling when Notre Dame came into the conversation you would turn up. I read your post with great interest. I am curious to know if you are a graduate of ND or a non-graduate fan. I ask because I have a hunch you may be a grad.
Anyway, living in northern Illinois, like everyone else, I know a lot of ND fans, grads, a few ex-players, etc. I also know a lot of Big 10 fans, grads, a few ex-players, etc. as well. What I have learned from the ND conversations I have had over several years (40 or so) is that about 90%+ of the people I have talked to either hate or love ND. There really isn't much middle ground at all. I am wondering if you agree. Well, I happen to be in the middle ground category. I neither love nor hate ND.
I separate Notre Dame from the Big 10. First of all I have tremendous respect for ND. I really don't find them to be overrated most of the time. But there are times when every team is overrated. I couldn't find any conference that, as a whole, has a winning record against ND. That is impressive. I have watched ND over the years beat SEC teams and always felt they did it with class.
I gained respect for ND years ago. One of the most classic games I remember is the 11/15/1980 nationally televised game between ND and Alabama. If I remember correctly I believe that game was played in Alabama. Anyway, when I was away at college, I was dating a girl who was from the east and her dad was a ND grad and the most avid ND fan I ever knew. Her dad and I watched that game in their family room. Throughout the entire game he paced back and forth in front of the couch. I silently rooted for Alabama.
ND won that game 7-0. There were a lot of twists and turns. But when the game ended he was the most humble guy you ever saw. He said ND beat a real good team that day. Of course he was happy and I didn't take that loss too hard. He knew I wanted Alabama to win. When ND won he never said anything about Alabama being overrated, etc. He was gracious with the victory. I leared a lot that day as a young man from him. That was the day my respect for ND began. Over the years when ND had to get it done they usually did.
After a long period of bowl game defeats ND has won 4 of their last 6. That's not bad at all. When they played Alabama in the national championship game a couple of years ago I have to admit I was nervous before the game. I felt Alabama was better but with ND you just never know. I learned that in the past.
I have no animosity toward ND at all, even though they have beaten the SEC overall. That's a good program and an excellent school. I think it is good for college football when Notre Dame has a strong team. I would think those in the Big 10 would ask them what their secret is in beating the SEC. It might help.
This post was edited on 1/7 10:23 AM by Dr. Mirakle
LHS:
Yes I see your point of view. However, we are just going to have to disagree a little bit on some things. I'll get to that.
I think Missouri and Nebraska never should have left the Big 12 in the first place. I think they are both out of place in their respective conferences. Whatever the reasons for their leaving were, I think the move was wrong.
Like I said before, if Missouri lands in the West they don't play for the SEC title this year, next or the next. And let's be honest here. Missouri got to the title game through the back door. It wasn't so much they won the East as it was Georgia lost the east. When Georgia and Missouri met Georgia drilled the Tigers 34-0, and remember, that game was played in Columbia. Where Georgia lost that division was when they lost to SC in SC 38-35 in week two and then lost at home to Florida in week 8 38-20. That loss was the killer. If Georgia wins that game they win the division based on head-to-head with Missouri and we aren't having this conversation. I thought Georgia was a better team. Even though Missouri won that division I think Georgia should have been ranked ahead of them, like they were.
My point here is that you are reading too much into their title appearance and indicting the entire conference. Yeah Missouri won a couple fo crossover games in the conference. But those were against the two bottom teams in the West. When they got their chance to play the best from the West we saw the result. I think that final score was indicitive of the difference in the two programs. They may even be further apart than that. If Missouri is in the West they most likely end up in either 5th or 6th place. Those teams you say are average or hype are better than you think.
Add to that the fact that Missouri has the two worst teams in the entire conference in Kentucky and Vanderbilt in their division. That's two automatic wins each year. But you can take this to the bank. When Florida comes back, (and they will) and when Georgia plays to their capability, Missouri is a perennial 3rd place team in that division.
This post was edited on 1/7 11:21 AM by Dr. Mirakle
Yes I see your point of view. However, we are just going to have to disagree a little bit on some things. I'll get to that.
I think Missouri and Nebraska never should have left the Big 12 in the first place. I think they are both out of place in their respective conferences. Whatever the reasons for their leaving were, I think the move was wrong.
Like I said before, if Missouri lands in the West they don't play for the SEC title this year, next or the next. And let's be honest here. Missouri got to the title game through the back door. It wasn't so much they won the East as it was Georgia lost the east. When Georgia and Missouri met Georgia drilled the Tigers 34-0, and remember, that game was played in Columbia. Where Georgia lost that division was when they lost to SC in SC 38-35 in week two and then lost at home to Florida in week 8 38-20. That loss was the killer. If Georgia wins that game they win the division based on head-to-head with Missouri and we aren't having this conversation. I thought Georgia was a better team. Even though Missouri won that division I think Georgia should have been ranked ahead of them, like they were.
My point here is that you are reading too much into their title appearance and indicting the entire conference. Yeah Missouri won a couple fo crossover games in the conference. But those were against the two bottom teams in the West. When they got their chance to play the best from the West we saw the result. I think that final score was indicitive of the difference in the two programs. They may even be further apart than that. If Missouri is in the West they most likely end up in either 5th or 6th place. Those teams you say are average or hype are better than you think.
Add to that the fact that Missouri has the two worst teams in the entire conference in Kentucky and Vanderbilt in their division. That's two automatic wins each year. But you can take this to the bank. When Florida comes back, (and they will) and when Georgia plays to their capability, Missouri is a perennial 3rd place team in that division.
This post was edited on 1/7 11:21 AM by Dr. Mirakle
Dr. Mirakle:
You hypothesize correctly: I am a graduate.
I do agree with you here. There is some merit to the vilification of a percentage of ND graduates: The "Domers" can be an arrogant bunch.
In my neighborhood, there are numerous Michigan, NU, Johns Hopkins, Ivy League, Vanderbilt or Stanford graduates or MA recipients, most of whom are decent people. There are a sample of these individuals who will tell you where they received their degrees, advanced degrees or law or medical degrees from these schools in the first syllable uttered from their mouths upon introduction. It is both annoying and shameful when they place an institution of graduation in front of their family, friends or charitable service; some wear their colleges on their lapels. Shameful.
One of the proudest moments I have had since my graduation from ND over thirty years ago was when, upon an introduction to a new acquaintance, I was announced as "the only guy a friend knew from ND who wasn't a complete jerk."
I re-call the 1980 game at Alabama. Phil Carter's TD in the second quarter won the game as ND shut down Major Ogilvie all day.
That sounds like a pretty nice neighborhood. The people you speak of, some of whom feel the need to include their "credentials" upon introduction, in my opinion, are those people who are insecure and feel the need to "fit in" or impress someone to make themselves feel better. The ones who don't wear it on their lapels, as you say, are the genuine people. My girlfriend's dad was one who belonged in the latter group. Classy man.
As for the last sentence, funny stuff and very down to earth.
Dr.
I think you are right. We are glass half empty or glass half full on this one. We are pretty much saying the same thing except my thoughts when someone mentioned a conference is by FAR the best conference, I based my thinking on the middle to bottom teams of the conference. I also believe that the BEST team shouldn't lose to a 3rd string QB and a top team shouldn't be held to 3 pts in a blow out.
I think everyone agree that in the past 15 years Alabama, LSU, Auburn and Florida are four of the top 8 schools in the nation. Those are some very strong programs in terms of Football. Yes Florida will be back in the thick of things. Shannon and the city of Miami connection will put "dudes" in the orange and blue. Recruiting will get interesting. Georgia would be 5 and they choke way too much to be considered tops. Yes, they have "dudes" on their roster especially at RB but, for some reason, they can never win the game that counts. The rest of the conference is average which is the same for the other conferences as well. To me this was one of the few years in which the Bowl matchups were accurate.
I think you are right. We are glass half empty or glass half full on this one. We are pretty much saying the same thing except my thoughts when someone mentioned a conference is by FAR the best conference, I based my thinking on the middle to bottom teams of the conference. I also believe that the BEST team shouldn't lose to a 3rd string QB and a top team shouldn't be held to 3 pts in a blow out.
I think everyone agree that in the past 15 years Alabama, LSU, Auburn and Florida are four of the top 8 schools in the nation. Those are some very strong programs in terms of Football. Yes Florida will be back in the thick of things. Shannon and the city of Miami connection will put "dudes" in the orange and blue. Recruiting will get interesting. Georgia would be 5 and they choke way too much to be considered tops. Yes, they have "dudes" on their roster especially at RB but, for some reason, they can never win the game that counts. The rest of the conference is average which is the same for the other conferences as well. To me this was one of the few years in which the Bowl matchups were accurate.
I do find it interesting that no one has pointed out the over signing that was/is prevalent in the SEC over the past 20 years that resulted in forced attrition of many players. Had these players signed with many other teams outside the SEC they would not have been purged. Conferences such as the Big 10 prohibit such over signing because its about education and football. I often remember classes of 33-35 at places like LSU, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Etc... How does a school keep to their 85 limit and sign classes of that size? they force kids out! Is that what its all about? Winning football and not worrying about education! Sad sad sad day if it is! I'm not naive, I understand that its a business, but even in the days before labor organized, business did not throw away men as quickly as football programs can.
Jwar,
I disagree. I think America is about choice therefore if you are interested in Football/ NFL you should have that option. The SEC provides that option. If you are interested in higher education and all the things certain schools can bring to the table, you have that option as well. I say whatever you goal is be the best at it. Alabama spends a lot of money of football. They better be damn good at it. Harvard spend a lot of money on education, they better be damn good at it. I don't think Alabama should interest themselves in Harvards processes and I don't think Harvard should ever consider trying to be a football power. I think people should respect schools for what they are a deal with it.
I disagree. I think America is about choice therefore if you are interested in Football/ NFL you should have that option. The SEC provides that option. If you are interested in higher education and all the things certain schools can bring to the table, you have that option as well. I say whatever you goal is be the best at it. Alabama spends a lot of money of football. They better be damn good at it. Harvard spend a lot of money on education, they better be damn good at it. I don't think Alabama should interest themselves in Harvards processes and I don't think Harvard should ever consider trying to be a football power. I think people should respect schools for what they are a deal with it.
WOW LHS:
That is one hell of a post. I am VERY impressed. I couldn't have said it better.
I was laying off saying what I am about to say until I read JWAR's post.
As I stated in another post, I have been talking college football with people for about 40 years.
Every single time I discuss SEC football compared to Big 10 football or northern football someone somewhere says what Jwar said. It isn't always something about academics or "priorities," there are other things said as well. In short I have witnessed a LOT of northern prejudices and bias against the south in those years. The funny thing is that a lot of the guilty people attempt to come off as being "tolerant" when nothing could be further from the truth.
This hatred, especially with some of the Big 10 people, is deep. The Pac 12 has also owned the Big 10 but the level of hatred for that conference is nowhere near what it is for the SEC. Some (certainly not all) despise the SEC to the point where it is personal. That is when you get things like, they aren't as smart in school in the SEC, their priorities are out of whack, not as many graduate, etc. This comes from an intense jealousy at the SEC success on the field. This is also always an attempt to change the subject.
You had Gaelman relishing in the Alabama loss to Ohio State as "savoring the angst from down south" and "oh how the mighty have fallen" What makes this especially comical and dripping with hypocrisy is that about a half hour earlier he made a post in which he stated " the best advice I ever heard was to be humble in victory and gracious in defeat." Well, he may have heard it, but he sure as hell didn't listen to it or apply it did he?
I am being careful here NOT to name everyone. Some of the people here are smart enough not to write what they really think. But when it comes to talking with people, it comes out a lot.
Jwar, I like your posts, but let me say I am a little disappointed. The conversation is about football on the field. On the other hand, to answer what you said, you did have Ohio State's QB saying they shouldn't have to attend class, just play football. Where would you say his "priorities" are? You don't have to answer that, just something to consider.
I am sticking to the football subject.
This post was edited on 1/7 6:16 PM by Dr. Mirakle
LHSTigers,
Do you know the average length of a career in the NFL? Do you know what the bankruptcy rate is after exiting the NFL currently? Do you really think we are doing the athlete justice to not prepare him for life after football? Have you played in the NFL, College at the D1 level, or been recruited to play while in HS? Yes, I agree that you should be the best you can be at anything you aspire to, but couldn't disagree with you more that the schools shouldn't worry about getting these fine young men the education they need and deserve!
Do you know the average length of a career in the NFL? Do you know what the bankruptcy rate is after exiting the NFL currently? Do you really think we are doing the athlete justice to not prepare him for life after football? Have you played in the NFL, College at the D1 level, or been recruited to play while in HS? Yes, I agree that you should be the best you can be at anything you aspire to, but couldn't disagree with you more that the schools shouldn't worry about getting these fine young men the education they need and deserve!
JW
Sorry but you are a little out of touch with reality. A very large majority of the top kids that play division one football are doing so for a ticket to the NFL and not for education.
Many of these guys do go back and finish but these kids in a lot of cases - and yes in the big 10 too, are only interested in their draft stock. They could care less about the average nfl career length. It's making their first millions and he fully their second millions too.
Agree that this is wrong but colleges could care less as well. With the amount of money that football generates, it more than covers what the school dishes out for these kids.
Maybe Illinois is the exception
Sorry but you are a little out of touch with reality. A very large majority of the top kids that play division one football are doing so for a ticket to the NFL and not for education.
Many of these guys do go back and finish but these kids in a lot of cases - and yes in the big 10 too, are only interested in their draft stock. They could care less about the average nfl career length. It's making their first millions and he fully their second millions too.
Agree that this is wrong but colleges could care less as well. With the amount of money that football generates, it more than covers what the school dishes out for these kids.
Maybe Illinois is the exception
Yup---guilty as charged in savoring the angst from down south.
Damn tired of the arrogance & hypocrisy.
If you're not aware of the history of prejudice and bigotry from your beloved SEC then you're simply in denial.
I've had SEC acquaintances refuse to acknowledge their checkered history when it comes to integration .
Now that 80% of the players are black and the conference is dominant all of a sudden those that couldn't walk through the front door are now damn welcome...... On the football field that is.
Are you aware how all this came about? How Bear Bryant scheduled a game with USC . The Trojans smoked the Tide behind Sam "the Bam" Cunningham, a bruising African -American fullback .
All of a sudden the home folks decided it might not be a bad idea to open things up a bit. The alternative was to stay all white and become irrelevant.
Given that, black players became acceptable. Hypocrisy in my humble opinion sir.
And then to follow that up with how great "we" are is laughably arrogant.
Without the down home black kids the SEC would be a joke.
I give Bear Bryant credit for recognizing it and finding a way around the prejudice.
All that having been said I now have an LSU backer at the office telling me the only reason ND won is because they had Father O'Leary in the replay booth. Gracious in defeat?
Same old bigotry .
I appreciate quality football wherever it comes from.
The Alabama team that beat Notre Dame 2 years ago was as good a college football team as I've ever seen.
Completely dominant in all phases of the game.
Just wish the SEC apologists would acknowledge how their dominance came about.
And also give credit when the other guys come up with a way to beat them at their own game.
When the " unbeatable" SEC west goes 2-5 in bowl games my LSU friend pins it on Father O' Leary and fatigue from the toughness of the conference season.
Pure lunacy .
Damn tired of the arrogance & hypocrisy.
If you're not aware of the history of prejudice and bigotry from your beloved SEC then you're simply in denial.
I've had SEC acquaintances refuse to acknowledge their checkered history when it comes to integration .
Now that 80% of the players are black and the conference is dominant all of a sudden those that couldn't walk through the front door are now damn welcome...... On the football field that is.
Are you aware how all this came about? How Bear Bryant scheduled a game with USC . The Trojans smoked the Tide behind Sam "the Bam" Cunningham, a bruising African -American fullback .
All of a sudden the home folks decided it might not be a bad idea to open things up a bit. The alternative was to stay all white and become irrelevant.
Given that, black players became acceptable. Hypocrisy in my humble opinion sir.
And then to follow that up with how great "we" are is laughably arrogant.
Without the down home black kids the SEC would be a joke.
I give Bear Bryant credit for recognizing it and finding a way around the prejudice.
All that having been said I now have an LSU backer at the office telling me the only reason ND won is because they had Father O'Leary in the replay booth. Gracious in defeat?
Same old bigotry .
I appreciate quality football wherever it comes from.
The Alabama team that beat Notre Dame 2 years ago was as good a college football team as I've ever seen.
Completely dominant in all phases of the game.
Just wish the SEC apologists would acknowledge how their dominance came about.
And also give credit when the other guys come up with a way to beat them at their own game.
When the " unbeatable" SEC west goes 2-5 in bowl games my LSU friend pins it on Father O' Leary and fatigue from the toughness of the conference season.
Pure lunacy .
Gaelman:
All prescient points.
As far as ND is concerned, ND was often criticized for not playing what are now SEC teams until the 70s. With the exception of Duke, ND never played teams from the south because ND fielded black players and NO SOUTHERN SCHOOL WOULD ALLOW ND's BLACK PLAYERS IN HOTELS. The schools wouldn't allow ND's black football players to be billeted on their campuses. Therefore, ND refused to schedule southern schools and they were not quiet about it when asked. The bad publicity is the singular reason why schools from the Deep South ended the childish taunts in the forties because ND had publicly responded about the racial discrimination their black players faced.
It is not an error to either examine or acknowledge mistakes; it is a crucial element in avoiding the pitfalls of repeating the past.
When Bryant was at Texas A&M, he faced fierce criticism from within when he chose to recruit black players. This, in part, led to his departure from College Station. I wouldn't exactly call the Bear a great "racial healer," but he was a practical man and knew he was at an immeasurable disadvantage by excluding thirty percent of high school athletes nationwide.
LCN,
With all due respect I'm not out of touch with reality, I want to get these kids back to reality and prevent them from having ******** jammed down their throat about the NFL success stories and understand the truth of what happens. These kids are being given an opportunity to get something they might not otherwise get and its all our jobs to help them understand that Plan A is the degree and Plan B is the NFL. The good college coaches are starting to preach this, the not so good ones are still win at all costs so I can get my 7 figure salary!
I have personally sat in every Big10 coaches office in the past 5 years with the exception of Iowa and heard the pitch to my oldest and now my second of 4 boys, and every one to a fault has been discussing the fact that Plan A is the degree, maybe thats what is making the Big 10 "soft" but I'll take the attention to education over the attention to winning at all cost.
With all due respect I'm not out of touch with reality, I want to get these kids back to reality and prevent them from having ******** jammed down their throat about the NFL success stories and understand the truth of what happens. These kids are being given an opportunity to get something they might not otherwise get and its all our jobs to help them understand that Plan A is the degree and Plan B is the NFL. The good college coaches are starting to preach this, the not so good ones are still win at all costs so I can get my 7 figure salary!
I have personally sat in every Big10 coaches office in the past 5 years with the exception of Iowa and heard the pitch to my oldest and now my second of 4 boys, and every one to a fault has been discussing the fact that Plan A is the degree, maybe thats what is making the Big 10 "soft" but I'll take the attention to education over the attention to winning at all cost.
Sorry, but I have to agree with Jwar on this one.
The kids and parents are being fed a load of crap so that some of these teams can stock the bench with 3-4 star recruits.
This is what over time keeps those programs near the top, every school is going to have injuries, but the ones who have the depth to have third string 3-4 star replacements are the ones who consistently win.
In a couple of years many are gone replaced by the latest crop of kids.
Not questioning that this is part of the "business" of college football, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
The kids and parents are being fed a load of crap so that some of these teams can stock the bench with 3-4 star recruits.
This is what over time keeps those programs near the top, every school is going to have injuries, but the ones who have the depth to have third string 3-4 star replacements are the ones who consistently win.
In a couple of years many are gone replaced by the latest crop of kids.
Not questioning that this is part of the "business" of college football, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
JWar,
I will start with the questions concerning me. Earlier in this thread MWitt and Dr. M talked about certain type of guys who need validation based on something. I don't operate like that nor do I care to share. Just know that I have knowledge. Moving to football and schools, you asked about the NFL life cycle. The Avg is 3 to 4 years. Now let's see, if I get a degree for U of I in Engineering, there a chance I will find a company to hire me for $50K. I will take me twenty years to have made my first million. Keep in mind most do start at entry level which is closer to $40k. The other option is I can work my but off and make it to the NFL and have a 4 year career that pays me a $1mill on average. If I am at Alabama, I will most likely be a first or second rounder which mean I would have made that million in year 1. So it is your desire to push ALL athletes towards the rat race because what?
The reality is any kid can go back to school at any time if he want to pursue the education route. He could try the NFL for 4 years and return to college at 25/26. That is about the age of the individual who start out in the Armed forces first and attend college second. I also will not get into the actual placement rate of kids that graduate college and actual get jobs in their fields. Which the numbers drop dramatically for African Americans. There is a thing called reality that you are missing. In today's world the academic dream is just as fickle as the NFL dream. The only difference is the NFL pay a ton more. I wont even get into the individuals that dedicate their life to a company that get laid off after 20 years of service.
In final like I said before, America is based on Diversity. Everybody can't be Doctors or we wouldn't have lawyers. Everybody can't be Lawyers or we would have Engineers. The beauty is you have an option to choose what you want and there is a University somewhere that fit your exact need. Thank God for diversity.
I will start with the questions concerning me. Earlier in this thread MWitt and Dr. M talked about certain type of guys who need validation based on something. I don't operate like that nor do I care to share. Just know that I have knowledge. Moving to football and schools, you asked about the NFL life cycle. The Avg is 3 to 4 years. Now let's see, if I get a degree for U of I in Engineering, there a chance I will find a company to hire me for $50K. I will take me twenty years to have made my first million. Keep in mind most do start at entry level which is closer to $40k. The other option is I can work my but off and make it to the NFL and have a 4 year career that pays me a $1mill on average. If I am at Alabama, I will most likely be a first or second rounder which mean I would have made that million in year 1. So it is your desire to push ALL athletes towards the rat race because what?
The reality is any kid can go back to school at any time if he want to pursue the education route. He could try the NFL for 4 years and return to college at 25/26. That is about the age of the individual who start out in the Armed forces first and attend college second. I also will not get into the actual placement rate of kids that graduate college and actual get jobs in their fields. Which the numbers drop dramatically for African Americans. There is a thing called reality that you are missing. In today's world the academic dream is just as fickle as the NFL dream. The only difference is the NFL pay a ton more. I wont even get into the individuals that dedicate their life to a company that get laid off after 20 years of service.
In final like I said before, America is based on Diversity. Everybody can't be Doctors or we wouldn't have lawyers. Everybody can't be Lawyers or we would have Engineers. The beauty is you have an option to choose what you want and there is a University somewhere that fit your exact need. Thank God for diversity.
Well here we go again. Another classic example of someone from the north using history to shoot down the SEC. I get this a lot.
First of all let's get it on the record that YOU brought race into this, not me. I wasn't going there. Second, you and Wittman are talking about things that did happen, but happened 50+ years ago. You need to get over it. That was then, this is now. We are talking about things as they are now. I have a news flash for you in case you haven't heard. George Wallace is dead. Most of those people who were around 50+ years ago are also dead. Things have changed dramatically. And let's not kid ourselves about racism, bigotry, etc. It is alive and well in ALL corners of this country, not just in the south. If you can't see that then YOU are the one in denial. In describing the hatred some people from the north have against the SEC I used the words, prejudice and bias but never used the word bigotry. You used that word. When it comes to arrogance you had better include some from the north in there as well. Some think they are just smarter than others. Those are usually the ones who find out the hard way that they are not.
Who are these "so-called" SEC aquaintances who refuse to acknowledge the checkered past when it comes to integration? If they are that ignorant why are they aquaintances of yours? Sorry, if I come across a person like that I cut them loose. Am I aware of how this came about? Are you kidding me? Do you have any idea who I am or the history of my life?
So, now you have an LSU backer saying the only reason ND won is because they have Father O'Leary in the replay booth? I find that funny. Don't the people of Notre Dame itself talk about things like "the luck of the Irish?" Personally, I don't go for that stuff. Sure there are breaks, missed calls, etc. but I am sure you would agree that over a long period of time those things tend to even out. Maybe not in one game, but over the long haul.
What I find funny once again, is that you criticize someone for not being gracious based on what he said and then you immediately write something that is nowhere near gracious. Then, you have the gall to say the best advice you ever heard was "be humble in victory and gracious in defeat." OK I get it, you can criticize someone for displaying the same behavior you display.
Here is the difference in my criticism of the Big 10 and yours of the SEC. To you, it's personal. To me it isn't. To you it is about the entire south and the history, oh yeah football too. To me, I am keeping it on the field. Read the posts and you will see. This thread was about football, not the history of the south. Let me know and I will educate you about what the Civil War was actually fought over. I think we all know the history although some of us probably know more.
My point about the Big 10 was two things. First, I find Big 10 football to be boring. I said that before. Yes, they have three good teams...that's it. Maybe I can give a little to Nebraska. But you can take the rest of them and put them in the ash can. Second, I think the conference is overrated based on the Big 10 people I talk to. It has nothing to do with the media, etc. I realize that living where I do I will be outnumbered. But, I too get tired of the arrogance of some who put the Big 10 on a pedestal they don't belong on.
I further understand that we were talking about the best conference. The Big 10 doesn't even belong in the conversation.
If you want to keep talking about the history of the south, convene a class somewhere.
LHS,
I don't often enter into these conversations, but I think your concept of kids putting all their eggs into the NFL basket is flawed. If they make it, you are correct, they will earn a substantial amount in their four years in the league. Here is the problem; how many of the college athletes realistically have a shot at the NFL? In 2013 there were 88,649 college football players in all Divisions. 45,128 were in Division I and II. Division I alone had 27,243. If we assume 25% were seniors that means 6810 were eligible for the NFL draft from Division I alone. (The actual number is probably closer to 3,500 due to attrition, injury, etc.)
The NFL has 32 teams with 53 man rosters; that's 1696 players. If we include practice squads the number is slightly higher so let's call it 2000. If we assume that one fourth of the roster changes each year that translates to 500 new players enter via the draft or free agents.
I think you can see that 26,743 Division I football players will not be NFL participants. I would hope that you and others would counsel every football player to get their education since the odds of hitting the NFL jackpot are so low! I personally do not care which conference the athletes participate in but I would look strongly at the team's graduation rate before recommending enrollment anywhere.
I don't often enter into these conversations, but I think your concept of kids putting all their eggs into the NFL basket is flawed. If they make it, you are correct, they will earn a substantial amount in their four years in the league. Here is the problem; how many of the college athletes realistically have a shot at the NFL? In 2013 there were 88,649 college football players in all Divisions. 45,128 were in Division I and II. Division I alone had 27,243. If we assume 25% were seniors that means 6810 were eligible for the NFL draft from Division I alone. (The actual number is probably closer to 3,500 due to attrition, injury, etc.)
The NFL has 32 teams with 53 man rosters; that's 1696 players. If we include practice squads the number is slightly higher so let's call it 2000. If we assume that one fourth of the roster changes each year that translates to 500 new players enter via the draft or free agents.
I think you can see that 26,743 Division I football players will not be NFL participants. I would hope that you and others would counsel every football player to get their education since the odds of hitting the NFL jackpot are so low! I personally do not care which conference the athletes participate in but I would look strongly at the team's graduation rate before recommending enrollment anywhere.
I get the post. But seriously, what coach is actually going to tell a kid that he is there to play football first and worry about an education second? Of course coaches are going to tell a kid he is there to get an education first. They say that. But I agree with Newt, the things you talk negatively about go on at many schools, including the Big 10.
When Notre Dame was going through bad times on the field were the alumni pissed off because not enough people were getting degrees? Hell no! They want to win just like everyone else. You think the people of Michigan are excited now? Why are they excited? Because a new department in education opened up? **** no, there's a new sheriff in town!
Dr.
I missed your post yesterday about C Jones twitter post from 2012. I think it was wrong of him to post regardless of the excuse that he was a freshman probably frustrated in his first full semester and on a Friday morning before 9am. It was also probably in response and haste of thought, to being told he wasn't meeting the coaches & teams expectations of achievement in the classroom.
LHSTiger,
Sure a player can make big bucks in the NFL and they can even have a lengthy career but the cold hard fact is the majority don't and regardless of success while in the league nearly 80% of all NFL players file for Bankruptcy within 2 years of exiting the league. The real world is not easy but we have a responsibility to prepare these young men for all outcomes. By the way most graduate engineers in their first year are now north of $60k and all are employable in their field. If one studied the classics their pay is certainly lower and very unlikely to be employees in their field, so yes I agree with you that some degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on regardless of who issues them Harvard or Jimmy's JC!
I missed your post yesterday about C Jones twitter post from 2012. I think it was wrong of him to post regardless of the excuse that he was a freshman probably frustrated in his first full semester and on a Friday morning before 9am. It was also probably in response and haste of thought, to being told he wasn't meeting the coaches & teams expectations of achievement in the classroom.
LHSTiger,
Sure a player can make big bucks in the NFL and they can even have a lengthy career but the cold hard fact is the majority don't and regardless of success while in the league nearly 80% of all NFL players file for Bankruptcy within 2 years of exiting the league. The real world is not easy but we have a responsibility to prepare these young men for all outcomes. By the way most graduate engineers in their first year are now north of $60k and all are employable in their field. If one studied the classics their pay is certainly lower and very unlikely to be employees in their field, so yes I agree with you that some degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on regardless of who issues them Harvard or Jimmy's JC!
If the Big Ten's strong showing against the SEC this bowl season were customary, does anyone believe this topic would have received the 72 posts it has?
LP,
The same can be said for graduating with an Engineering degree. In may class it was 150. How many Universities are there in the USA? How many of them offer engineering? How many Engineering jobs are available each year? Let's not forget it is two classes in each year (fall and spring) so isn't the odds just the same? It's 85 kids on the football team. It's 20K plus that attend the University. Which one actually have better odds? I don't just take a blanket theory I look at reality. I have at least 20 people that I can name right now that have degrees and no where to go. Some of them interned at some of the best companies. There aren't as many jobs available as the world like to make you think they are.
Trust me, I push education and will always say get your degree. What I will not do is discourage someone from pursuing their dream just because the odds are bad. That being said, I feel the world should provide the options.
The same can be said for graduating with an Engineering degree. In may class it was 150. How many Universities are there in the USA? How many of them offer engineering? How many Engineering jobs are available each year? Let's not forget it is two classes in each year (fall and spring) so isn't the odds just the same? It's 85 kids on the football team. It's 20K plus that attend the University. Which one actually have better odds? I don't just take a blanket theory I look at reality. I have at least 20 people that I can name right now that have degrees and no where to go. Some of them interned at some of the best companies. There aren't as many jobs available as the world like to make you think they are.
Trust me, I push education and will always say get your degree. What I will not do is discourage someone from pursuing their dream just because the odds are bad. That being said, I feel the world should provide the options.
First of all let's get it on the record that YOU brought race into this, not me. I wasn't going there. Second, you and Wittman are talking about things that did happen, but happened 50+ years ago. You need to get over it. That was then, this is now. We are talking about things as they are now. I have a news flash for you in case you haven't heard. George Wallace is dead.
Yes I DID bring race in to it because it happens to the reason "your teams" are successful.
George Wallace may be dead but the south remains as bigoted as it ever was EXCEPT on the football field.
I also hear the same things all the time from your crowd----"that was years ago, it's in the past, things have changed."
The only way change came to the south was by federal mandate. Unfortunately that doesn't extend to hearts and minds.
Tell me again about denial and hypocrisy?
Am I aware of how this came about? Are you kidding me? Do you have any idea who I am or the history of my life?
Right back at ya .
This thread was about football, not the history of the south. Let me know and I will educate you about what the Civil War was actually fought over. I think we all know the history although some of us probably know more.
Oh really? I guess you're one of those that refers to it as the "war of northern aggression".
Thanks for the offer but I think I have a pretty good handle on it. Might be a big help to everyone to recognize which side won. Can you explain to me why the entire South switched political parties after the Civil Rights Act passed?
I'm sure you'll say it had NOTHING to do with race.
Here is the difference in my criticism of the Big 10 and yours of the SEC. To you, it's personal.
Laughable. I'm an ND backer. I'm happy when they win but don't cry like a child when they lose or try to find excuses.
The SEC had a bad bowl season this year. I'm delighted to see hypocrites suffer a bit.
My point has been to expose that hypocrisy.
Of course the SEC has been dominant but there's a huge asterisk in my mind.
And yes it has to do with race---sorry but those are the facts Jack.
I further understand that we were talking about the best conference. The Big 10 doesn't even belong in the conversation.
I'm sure not in your mind, but as others have posted here education should be the first priority.
When you factor that in the equation, the SEC doesn't even belong in the conversation.
I'll quote ex-Bear kicker Kevin Butler from Georgia on the topic.
When asked about the recruiting process and why he picked the Bulldogs over the superior academics at Vanderbilt, his reply was
"when I visited there they told me I'd actually have to go to class."
In parting let's just say you and I will continue to agree to disagree.
I don't like the SEC attitude but acknowledge they produce some good football teams.
You don't like the Big 10 and apparently are unwilling to admit that can also play some pretty good football.
If Ohio State beating invincible Alabama with their third string QB doesn't convince you, then nothing will.
God Bless.
Yes I DID bring race in to it because it happens to the reason "your teams" are successful.
George Wallace may be dead but the south remains as bigoted as it ever was EXCEPT on the football field.
I also hear the same things all the time from your crowd----"that was years ago, it's in the past, things have changed."
The only way change came to the south was by federal mandate. Unfortunately that doesn't extend to hearts and minds.
Tell me again about denial and hypocrisy?
Am I aware of how this came about? Are you kidding me? Do you have any idea who I am or the history of my life?
Right back at ya .
This thread was about football, not the history of the south. Let me know and I will educate you about what the Civil War was actually fought over. I think we all know the history although some of us probably know more.
Oh really? I guess you're one of those that refers to it as the "war of northern aggression".
Thanks for the offer but I think I have a pretty good handle on it. Might be a big help to everyone to recognize which side won. Can you explain to me why the entire South switched political parties after the Civil Rights Act passed?
I'm sure you'll say it had NOTHING to do with race.
Here is the difference in my criticism of the Big 10 and yours of the SEC. To you, it's personal.
Laughable. I'm an ND backer. I'm happy when they win but don't cry like a child when they lose or try to find excuses.
The SEC had a bad bowl season this year. I'm delighted to see hypocrites suffer a bit.
My point has been to expose that hypocrisy.
Of course the SEC has been dominant but there's a huge asterisk in my mind.
And yes it has to do with race---sorry but those are the facts Jack.
I further understand that we were talking about the best conference. The Big 10 doesn't even belong in the conversation.
I'm sure not in your mind, but as others have posted here education should be the first priority.
When you factor that in the equation, the SEC doesn't even belong in the conversation.
I'll quote ex-Bear kicker Kevin Butler from Georgia on the topic.
When asked about the recruiting process and why he picked the Bulldogs over the superior academics at Vanderbilt, his reply was
"when I visited there they told me I'd actually have to go to class."
In parting let's just say you and I will continue to agree to disagree.
I don't like the SEC attitude but acknowledge they produce some good football teams.
You don't like the Big 10 and apparently are unwilling to admit that can also play some pretty good football.
If Ohio State beating invincible Alabama with their third string QB doesn't convince you, then nothing will.
God Bless.
In 2012 there were 1.3 Million engineering jobs in the United States (according to government statistics), so I don't think the same can be said about engineering.
I don't want to discourage dreams either, but these dreamers need to have a secondary option if the NFL doesn't work out for them. And... for the vast majority of the college FB players it won't. Numbers are not in their favor.
I don't want to discourage dreams either, but these dreamers need to have a secondary option if the NFL doesn't work out for them. And... for the vast majority of the college FB players it won't. Numbers are not in their favor.
I can tell you this much. If the results with the Big 10 and SEC this year were usual and customary the thread would never have gotten started in the first place. I'd like anyne to name a past thread I started where I was gloating over the SEC beating the Big 10.
The fact is, some people are not happy till they see others miserable or see others lose and join them. Why do you think so many people hate the Yankees and Patriots?
LP,
Jobs open or jobs period? Let's see, there are 2870 4 year institution. So let's use a average number of 50 per class (2 classes a year) totaling 100 Engineering graduates per school. That is 287,000 graduates per year. Let's say the average person retires after 20 years. That mean 5.7 million people have Engineering degrees within that time frame. That is on the low end as most people work 30 years and I am sure 50 per class is on the low end as well.
Jobs open or jobs period? Let's see, there are 2870 4 year institution. So let's use a average number of 50 per class (2 classes a year) totaling 100 Engineering graduates per school. That is 287,000 graduates per year. Let's say the average person retires after 20 years. That mean 5.7 million people have Engineering degrees within that time frame. That is on the low end as most people work 30 years and I am sure 50 per class is on the low end as well.
LHS,
It was 1.3 million total jobs. In 2012, 137,548 engineering degrees were awarded which means there were 9.5 jobs per graduate. Far more available positions than the number of NFL jobs to be filled.
We'll probably never see each others point at this juncture. I'll end with this: in over 30 years of coaching, I was privileged to see three former Lake Park players spend time in the NFL. I coached far more who played college ball and have been successful in many different fields because they got a degree. The slim chance of making it to the NFL precludes me from believing that going to school to "play football' is ever a wise choice for any athlete.
It was 1.3 million total jobs. In 2012, 137,548 engineering degrees were awarded which means there were 9.5 jobs per graduate. Far more available positions than the number of NFL jobs to be filled.
We'll probably never see each others point at this juncture. I'll end with this: in over 30 years of coaching, I was privileged to see three former Lake Park players spend time in the NFL. I coached far more who played college ball and have been successful in many different fields because they got a degree. The slim chance of making it to the NFL precludes me from believing that going to school to "play football' is ever a wise choice for any athlete.