They have similar recruiting classes, similar history, and similar facilities. What can we copy from their success?
How did Baylor turn their program around?
- Thread starter Big John Stud
- Start date
What does the state of Texas have to do with anything?
are you joking or serious? Texas has like over 25 million people! thats a LOT of high school football players to choose from in a football crazy state
Despite being in a state with 25 million people, Baylor has similar recruiting classes to ours. Is a 5.7 3 star player from Texas better than a 5.7 3 star player from Ohio or Kentucky?
good question. i've often said would a 5 star player from eastern ky be considered the same in florida? texas? etc.
They have an athletics director that went out and hired an innovative offensive mind because he realized he wasn't going to out-muscle Texas and Oklahoma. They also have an AD that wants to win at all costs and realizes that football is what pays the bills.
they went to a football first agenda...brought in a HC with experience and who knew the the region and culture well...born in texas, played in texas, never coached outside the state of texas...
...and he broke away from traditional B12 football in terms of offense anyway...
If there ever was proof that an innovative offensive mind and system can change a program its Baylor...Kind of like what the Ole Ball coach did at UF with the fun and gun...Chip Kelly at Oregon etc...
Baylor and TCU both were never going to beat Oklahoma and Texas trying to play Oklahoma and Texas football...never going to out recruit them consistently...there's about a hundred years worth of history to prove that...
"system" football, especially a passing up tempo system, can even the playing field...
I mean watching Baylor is fun...on top of airing it out they're running wildcat, handing the ball off to a 6'8 410lb TE, calling flea flickers...they don't hold back...
I mean Oklahoma had to bring in Rielly so they could keep up...running the ball and defense doesn't cut it any more...you got to be able to score a lot...
Neal Brown and Dawson both run Pass Happy new aged systems but their play calling is conservative...its the oddest thing...I mean at some point you got to let it rip and really open up the play book...especially when you don't have a lot to play for...
Dawson needs to get the TEs involved...need to find a dual threat QB and run more from that position...should implement some wildcat...
If Stoops is getting in the way of Dawson fully unleashing the O, then he needs to stop and get out of the way...how will we know if its going to work...let Dawson have the O and back off...if we're no better for it fire him, then at least we know...
...and he broke away from traditional B12 football in terms of offense anyway...
If there ever was proof that an innovative offensive mind and system can change a program its Baylor...Kind of like what the Ole Ball coach did at UF with the fun and gun...Chip Kelly at Oregon etc...
Baylor and TCU both were never going to beat Oklahoma and Texas trying to play Oklahoma and Texas football...never going to out recruit them consistently...there's about a hundred years worth of history to prove that...
"system" football, especially a passing up tempo system, can even the playing field...
I mean watching Baylor is fun...on top of airing it out they're running wildcat, handing the ball off to a 6'8 410lb TE, calling flea flickers...they don't hold back...
I mean Oklahoma had to bring in Rielly so they could keep up...running the ball and defense doesn't cut it any more...you got to be able to score a lot...
Neal Brown and Dawson both run Pass Happy new aged systems but their play calling is conservative...its the oddest thing...I mean at some point you got to let it rip and really open up the play book...especially when you don't have a lot to play for...
Dawson needs to get the TEs involved...need to find a dual threat QB and run more from that position...should implement some wildcat...
If Stoops is getting in the way of Dawson fully unleashing the O, then he needs to stop and get out of the way...how will we know if its going to work...let Dawson have the O and back off...if we're no better for it fire him, then at least we know...
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4-8
4-8
7-6
Art Briles first three years at Baylor. Not much better than Stoops. Replace Louisville with Sam Houston state, and we could have had that record this year.
Oh, and as far as football business A.D. He waited five years with guy Morris before letting him go.
3-9
3-9
5-6
4-8
3-9
So maybe football schools give coaches time before making moves.
4-8
7-6
Art Briles first three years at Baylor. Not much better than Stoops. Replace Louisville with Sam Houston state, and we could have had that record this year.
Oh, and as far as football business A.D. He waited five years with guy Morris before letting him go.
3-9
3-9
5-6
4-8
3-9
So maybe football schools give coaches time before making moves.
The scouts already know about the pathetic competition in Kentucky, and, if they STILL rate the guy with 5 stars, he's probably pretty good. They already take the level of competition into account, and that's why there are so few 5 star players from places like Eastern Ky. If someone from there gets 5 stars (e.g, Tim Couch), he is probably a true phenom.
when you know your guy had a winning HC record at his previous school, you can cut him some slack. And Baylor had so much money trouble during Morris' time they had no choice but keep him thru his contract.
I think that is the biggest difference. We have 5 stars like Dennis Johnson and Damien Harris who are excellent players from the state of Kentucky. Difference is the type of talent they face week in and out. Kids here who are talented don't see the same type of player going against them which does not help them grow as a player. If Harris played in Florida he would see linebackers that could run with him, but here in KY once he got to the next level he was gone - big difference in stats and how a player is perceived.
disagreeing without any facts again. you are very good at that. (I think I know what you meant to say but did lousy saying it).
Yes without a doubt a 5.7 3 star is way better than a 5.7 star from Kentucky and much of Ohio? Look at the pure competition they play. Look at the amount of d1 talent in Texas. And then look at all the d1 schools in Texas. Look at all the pit of Texas schools goin to Texas to find talent. When was the last time a Texas school came to Kentucky to find a player??? Go ahead. I'll wait lol
The level of competition is already taken into account; otherwise, there would be a lot of Ky. high school stars with higher rankings already.
A
anon_q409idbs5m40a
Guest
Same goes for TCU, who used to be the doormat of the old Southwest Conference. Baylor hired Art Briles, who had a lot of connections with high school coaches in the state helping recruiting immensely. Draughton McClane helped finance the upgrades to the program and was instrumental in getting the new stadium built. Additionally, the move to the Big 12 actually helped Baylor as they got more national exposure. It all comes down to coaching and recruiting quality players, which they've done.
So the exact same rated player in Texas is better? Gotta love the logic of the Kentucky football fan.
How many nationally ranked high school teams are in KY compared to TX or FL? While a kid here maybe playing baseball in the Spring, they are putting on the pads in TX and FL.
So in year three, which for most new hires is considered the "show me" year, 7-6 is "not much better" than 5-7? I would have taken 7-6 every day of the week and twice on Sunday, and I would be singing high praises for our man Stoops. As it stands, our Staff & teams have notched three straight losing seasons and shown consistency only in late season swoons. Sadly, 7 wins was attainable for us this year with the weakness in the SEC East. Opportunities lost. OBTW, as far as Sam Houston St, they're #10 in the FCS....still playing in the playoffs and would absolutely wear Stoops' UK team out.
Yep. When Joker was here the first time he told me a kid in South Florida who was all county was like an All State player here in Kentucky. Kentucky does not have the population centers to develop talent on par with the big boy states like Texas, California, Florida, Georgia... We produce on average 3-5 very good prospects a year in this state that can play high D1 level ball - those other states produce 300-500.
Rather riddle you this. How does Iowa with Rivals recruiting ranking 2015 59th, 2014 59th and 2013 53rd in the hunt for a playoff spot and UK can't make a bowl.
That's true, but the scouting services already take that into account. That's why Texas and California have dozens of 4 and 5 star guys a year and Kentucky has 2 or 3 a year. Since they are already graded according to competition, if Kentucky does have a 4 star player, he's probably comparable in talent to a Texas 4 star. That's why a guy like Tim Couch is the real deal when he is ranked high. He's not just getting the accolades for his stats; he has to have legit talent of no one cares about the stats.
I agree with this. I have to think that Rivals, Scout, 247sports, and ESPN consider the talent of the state overall when ranking players individually.
Oh, most of gridiron success starts with coaching. Stoops is a young guy and has a lot to learn, just like the kids he's coaching. Whether or not he makes it here depends on him. If he learns from these experiences, we will start winning. If he doesn't, bye-bye in Dec 2017.
yes they take that into account but it still can't determine if they will be better. But like someone had said before the state of Kentucky isn't friendly to football like the state of Texas. Khsaa has to many rules that keep football down as a whole in the state. And as for the guy Morris comment. The man could barely coach his way out of a paper bag. It took briles how many years before building up the talent at Baylor? He had literally rebuild the program. And now look. He has one heisman, a ridiculous record in the last few years and players from Texas that ut, a&m, and Oklahoma used to get without question, are now looking at the Bears. When a player in the state of Kentucky like say Damien Harris has a Kentucky off and bama offer. Of course he would pick bama. I'd tell my son to go to bama. Because Kentucky just isn't good. It all comes down to you have build up a team that has enough potential to be successful. Once Kentucky does that. And keeps pounding away. And constantly makes bowls. And wins hardware they will be Baylor. Baylor is proof it can be done. But without the home grown talent. It's not gonna be easy
So when a kid camps where he is avaluated at and the same person is evaluating the kids no matter what state they are from he gives them a grade. These grades given by the same guy is different for each state the kid is from?? Is that right??
Also tv Williams ranking of a 5.5 really translates to a 5.7 or a 5.8 4 star if he was from Ky or Tn? Is that right as well?? Lol
Most of these recruiting service camps are no pads also. Use Randell Cobb, not the fastest guy without pads. His forty times will not blow you away, but put him in live game action and he is lightning in a bottle. Cobb was also a two star recruit who very few people wanted untill late in the process.
Damn good question, you can ask the same about Wisconsin, Kansas State, Duke, et al. I guess there must be a hell of a lot of great HS football players in the Iowa cornfields. Who would have ever guessed??
Have you been to one of these camps? They pretty much completely non contact. There are like 20 of them a year. And players don't go to all of them. They go to their most localized one. So very rarely do players from Texas ever mingle with guys from Kentucky or Ohio. But what I am telling you. Is a high three star guy from Florida or Texas would be ranked higher if he was from Kentucky. Of course you have some outliers like Harris. And looks he left the state for another school. Baylor doesn't not have a national prowess of being able to go nation wide and get the best. Not of their rosters is home grown. All I'm saying is Kentucky doesn't have such luxury