How does any of this make sense?

[aTotal360]

I'm pecking around this Sportico data (State's most recent data set is 22-23) and assuming it's accurate, where is the money being made for a school like MSU?

In 2022-23, our athletic budget spent $120M to make $115M.

Football seems to be dependent on making a decent bowl. If you don't, you are potentially taking a bath (that's including the SEC money. I assume that falls under the media rights category.)

Men's basketball makes a few dollars occasionally. I read that making the NCAAT will net you more than $2M extra.

Baseball appears to be a loss, but it isn't clear. With some effort, you can get to a baseball tab that allows you to filter "revenue", but I'm unsure if that's net or gross. But at a glance I think it's $2.2M loss in '22-23.

Women's basketball is paying $6M just to barely make $1M.

And we aren't alone. Lots of SEC schools are operating at a loss.

Sportico’s Intercollegiate Finance Database

Sportico is maintaining an interactive, real-time database that tracks the official balance sheets of public FBS university athletic departments.

www.sportico.com

Do universities consider the Athletic Department as an arm of marketing and assume the loss is a well-spent form of advertising?

IMO, the payout from making a good bowl game is one of the few things, if not the only thing, that can make MSU football profitable.

 

[615dawg]

Its going to be a mess when athletes have to be paid from athletic revenue.

A small D1 in the MVC, Lindenwood, just dropped 10 sports. I expect a lot more of this.

 

[dorndawg]

I'm fine with college athletics not making a profit within reason. That said, college football is absolutely a money-making endeavor at this point and that's not changing. It was more fun when that was not as much the case.

 

[aTotal360]

I'm fine with college athletics not making a profit within reason. That said, college football is absolutely a money-making endeavor at this point and that's not changing. It was more fun when that was not as much the case.

It doesn't seem like the schools are getting much of it. Networks and the NCAA are. They appear to be kicking back crumbs.

I had no idea the NCAAT makes $1B. That's insane.

 

[anon1768925248]

I'm pecking around this Sportico data (State's most recent data set is 22-23) and assuming it's accurate, where is the money being made for a school like MSU?

In 2022-23, our athletic budget spent $120M to make $115M.

Football seems to be dependent on making a decent bowl. If you don't, you are potentially taking a bath (that's including the SEC money. I assume that falls under the media rights category.)

Men's basketball makes a few dollars occasionally. I read that making the NCAAT will net you more than $2M extra.

Baseball appears to be a loss, but it isn't clear. With some effort, you can get to a baseball tab that allows you to filter "revenue", but I'm unsure if that's net or gross. But at a glance I think it's $2.2M loss in '22-23.

Women's basketball is paying $6M just to barely make $1M.

And we aren't alone. Lots of SEC schools are operating at a loss.

Sportico’s Intercollegiate Finance Database

Sportico is maintaining an interactive, real-time database that tracks the official balance sheets of public FBS university athletic departments.

www.sportico.com

Do universities consider the Athletic Department as an arm of marketing and assume the loss is a well-spent form of advertising?

IMO, the payout from making a good bowl game is one of the few things, if not the only thing, that can make MSU football profitable.

Baseball is a loss every year and has been for our entire existence.

 

[aTotal360]

Baseball is a loss every year and has been for our entire existence.

I was taking a coaching class under Richard Akins in the late 90s. He said us and LSU are the only teams that get close to breaking even. With today's bloated expenses, it's no shock that it would be a loss.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

It has never made any sense. Ive been beatinfg this drum for 40 years or more.

I love college sports, but its a terrible business model, and getting worse. It's a non-profit organization, dependent upon donations from super wealthy individuals just to stay afloat (annual donations from season ticket purchasers are nice, but they don't keep the lights on).

Sports performance has become crucial for marketing, student recruitment, and alumni relations....but none of it makes any sense. As the athletes become more removed from the regular students, why should alums, students, and prospective students, really give them so much support? Especially financial support.

I mean, sports are fun, and it's nice to have a connection to a team, even if that team breaks your heart over and over. And I like having an excuse to return to Starkville regularly. But the money thrown at this endeavor is ridiculous.

 

[RiverCityDawg]

I'm pecking around this Sportico data (State's most recent data set is 22-23) and assuming it's accurate, where is the money being made for a school like MSU?

In 2022-23, our athletic budget spent $120M to make $115M.

Football seems to be dependent on making a decent bowl. If you don't, you are potentially taking a bath (that's including the SEC money. I assume that falls under the media rights category.)

Men's basketball makes a few dollars occasionally. I read that making the NCAAT will net you more than $2M extra.

Baseball appears to be a loss, but it isn't clear. With some effort, you can get to a baseball tab that allows you to filter "revenue", but I'm unsure if that's net or gross. But at a glance I think it's $2.2M loss in '22-23.

Women's basketball is paying $6M just to barely make $1M.

And we aren't alone. Lots of SEC schools are operating at a loss.

Sportico’s Intercollegiate Finance Database

Sportico is maintaining an interactive, real-time database that tracks the official balance sheets of public FBS university athletic departments.

www.sportico.com

Do universities consider the Athletic Department as an arm of marketing and assume the loss is a well-spent form of advertising?

IMO, the payout from making a good bowl game is one of the few things, if not the only thing, that can make MSU football profitable.

I could have sworn the sum total of SEC bowl money (after each school deducts their bowl expenses) is split evenly among the SEC schools and part of the distribution everyone receives each year.

Same with the NCAAT.

 

[GloryDawg]

I could have sworn the sum total of SEC bowl money (after each school deducts their bowl expenses) is split evenly among the SEC schools and part of the distribution everyone receives each year.

Same with the NCAAT.

I thought that too.

 

[aTotal360]

I could have sworn the sum total of SEC bowl money (after each school deducts their bowl expenses) is split evenly among the SEC schools and part of the distribution everyone receives each year.

Same with the NCAAT.

Good point. I was just trying to figure out the difference in TV money from year to year. The difference could be the number of SEC teams making bowls and the quality of the bowls.

As for the NCAAT, I saw a report that had making it to the 1st pay out over $2M. You got more the further you went, but it never got crazy high. Each subsequent round earned you about 500k more. It also stated the SEC paid travel expenses.

 

[aTotal360]

If you want a masterclass in how to hide money with BS funds and shell accounts, here you go...

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/ncaa/finance/d1/2024D1Fin_RevenueDistributionPlan.pdf

 

[RiverCityDawg]

Good point. I was just trying to figure out the difference in TV money from year to year. The difference could be the number of SEC teams making bowls and the quality of the bowls.

As for the NCAAT, I saw a report that had making it to the 1st pay out over $2M. You got more the further you went, but it never got crazy high. Each subsequent round earned you about 500k more. It also stated the SEC paid travel expenses.

So those NCAAT payouts don't get split between the members?

Dang, if true, I'm definitely cheering against the SEC teams advancing... Not that I needed more of a reason.

 

[Seinfeld]

Someone with more tax knowledge than myself will have to explain this better than I can, but I think the short answer is that we’ve been dealing with Not for Profit, and I repeat… Not for Profit entities for decades now that have in actuality been making massive profits through college sports. Therefore, as part of an ongoing effort to navigate tax law, Title IX, and other financial waters, the biggest problem that many schools have faced for over 40 years now is figuring out how to spend all their stockpiles of money to appease the IRS and Title IX.

The big problem now is that revenue sharing is suddenly taking a massive 10-15% cut out of their spending plan, so a huge portion of expenses that used to go to coaching salaries, facility improvements, and massage chairs in every locker is having to be completely re-thought. The crap we’ve been doing for a long time simply isn’t feasible anymore.

What is all that going to mean? I guess none of us really know, but I personally think that these are some changes that we’ll see:

-Reductions in facility improvement plans
-Reductions in coaching salaries and size of staff for smaller sports
-Very few non-football buyouts being paid
-Possibly cutting some sports altogether

 

[patdog]

There’s so much that goes on off the books that these numbers are virtually meaningless

Someone with more tax knowledge than myself will have to explain this better than I can, but I think the short answer is that we’ve been dealing with Not for Profit, and I repeat… Not for Profit entities for decades now that have in actuality been making massive profits through college sports. Therefore, as part of an ongoing effort to navigate tax law, Title IX, and other financial waters, the biggest problem that many schools have faced for over 40 years now is figuring out how to spend all their stockpiles of money to appease the IRS and Title IX.

The big problem now is that revenue sharing is suddenly taking a massive 10-15% cut out of their spending plan, so a huge portion of expenses that used to go to coaching salaries, facility improvements, and massage chairs in every locker is having to be completely re-thought. The crap we’ve been doing for a long time simply isn’t feasible anymore.

What is all that going to mean? I guess none of us really know, but I personally think that these are some changes that we’ll see:

-Reductions in facility improvement plans
-Reductions in coaching salaries and size of staff for smaller sports
-Very few non-football buyouts being paid
-Possibly cutting some sports altogether

There's nothing wrong with a "not-for-profit" entity making a profit. In fact ALL not-for-profits HAVE to make a profit or they will go bankrupt. What "not-for-profit" really means is the entity can't have any owners or make any distributions or pay dividends to anyone. All profits made have to be spent for the purpose the NFP was formed for.

 

[8dog]

56 mill in expenses between admin comp and miscellaneous. No telling what that consists of.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Burn it all down

 

[Wesson Bulldog]

Burn it all down

 

[aTotal360]

So those NCAAT payouts don't get split between the members?

Dang, if true, I'm definitely cheering against the SEC teams advancing... Not that I needed more of a reason.

I found the data. I was wrong. I read "rounds" and forgot football now has rounds.

College Football Playoff Payouts 2025-2026

How much do teams make for the College Football Playoff? We've got the 2023-24 revenue distribution plan plus payouts from past years.

businessofcollegesports.com

 

[OG Goat Holder]

It has never made any sense. Ive been beatinfg this drum for 40 years or more.

I love college sports, but its a terrible business model, and getting worse. It's a non-profit organization, dependent upon donations from super wealthy individuals just to stay afloat (annual donations from season ticket purchasers are nice, but they don't keep the lights on).

Sports performance has become crucial for marketing, student recruitment, and alumni relations....but none of it makes any sense. As the athletes become more removed from the regular students, why should alums, students, and prospective students, really give them so much support? Especially financial support.

I mean, sports are fun, and it's nice to have a connection to a team, even if that team breaks your heart over and over. And I like having an excuse to return to Starkville regularly. But the money thrown at this endeavor is ridiculous.

I agree with you, but the rich people continue to do it, so it's obviously sustainable.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I agree with you, but the rich people continue to do it, so it's obviously sustainable.

Or they’re bankrolled by even richer entities.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

What is all that going to mean? I guess none of us really know, but I personally think that these are some changes that we’ll see:

-Reductions in facility improvement plans
-Reductions in coaching salaries and size of staff for smaller sports
-Very few non-football buyouts being paid
-Possibly cutting some sports altogether

You answered your own question right there.

It's just a budget number, and the train isn't slowing down. Rich people could decide to literally sponsor whole sports.

And I don't think you HAVE to fund the rev share if you don't have it, or maybe it's a percentage.....but you'd be at a massive disadvantage, to say the least.

 

[Maroon13]

.. all sec schools basically get the same payout from the conference. But the post season participants will get slightly more. For instance in 23 sec paid out $741 to 14 teams and bowl participates got another $23.

However here's the problem..... Alabama etc have a much higher gross revenue because they have more donations and sell more tickets.

State this year will have the lowest seat donation requirements in the conference and will not sell all its inventory. That's the problem.

Then Robbie Faulk will blame faculty and staff. Ha.

 

[dickiedawg]

.. all sec schools basically get the same payout from the conference. But the post season participants will get slightly more. For instance in 23 sec paid out $741 to 14 teams and bowl participates got another $23.

However here's the problem..... Alabama etc have a much higher gross revenue because they have more donations and sell more tickets.

State this year will have the lowest seat donation requirements in the conference and will not sell all its inventory. That's the problem.

Then Robbie Faulk will blame faculty and staff. Ha.

We’re going to play 4 of our 7 home games against playoff teams from last year. Then there’s Ole Miss, which was right on the doorstep.
It’s going to be a long-@$$ year.

 

[Maroon13]

We’re going to play 4 of our 7 home games against playoff teams from last year. Then there’s Ole Miss, which was right on the doorstep.
It’s going to be a long-@$$ year.

So you're saying State fans won't show because of fearing of losing. I beleive you...

..... the UGA, Longhorns and Reb fans will enjoy The Landing.

 

[MSTerritoryDog]

Someone with more tax knowledge than myself will have to explain this better than I can, but I think the short answer is that we’ve been dealing with Not for Profit, and I repeat… Not for Profit entities for decades now that have in actuality been making massive profits through college sports. Therefore, as part of an ongoing effort to navigate tax law, Title IX, and other financial waters, the biggest problem that many schools have faced for over 40 years now is figuring out how to spend all their stockpiles of money to appease the IRS and Title IX.

The big problem now is that revenue sharing is suddenly taking a massive 10-15% cut out of their spending plan, so a huge portion of expenses that used to go to coaching salaries, facility improvements, and massage chairs in every locker is having to be completely re-thought. The crap we’ve been doing for a long time simply isn’t feasible anymore.

What is all that going to mean? I guess none of us really know, but I personally think that these are some changes that we’ll see:

-Reductions in facility improvement plans
-Reductions in coaching salaries and size of staff for smaller sports
-Very few non-football buyouts being paid
-Possibly cutting some sports altogether

Your bullets are spot-on and probably in the right order. Facility upgrades will be delayed or dropped. Coaches salaries will stall and likely even come down. Cutting sports will be tricky business with Title IX and all, but it’s coming.

 

[MSTerritoryDog]

Im ready for that next generation of coach that accepts a very small staff salary (with hefty postseason incentives) in exchange for the money they left on the table being put towards NIL support.

Imagine a coach and his staff coming in to Starkville and taking a 1 million HC salary and $500k Coordinator salaries. They could then take that extra 4 million to go get them 8-12 more solid players to get them to the post season payday.

 

[dickiedawg]

So you're saying State fans won't show because of fearing of losing. I beleive you...

..... the UGA, Longhorns and Reb fans will enjoy The Landing.

Not showing up is nothing new. I’m saying I think season ticket sales are going to be down.

 

[kired]

How much does the NIT pay?