Think you might wanna wait till after the first game next year to make this statement?
How high or low is your confidence in Stoops?
- Thread starter screwduke
- Start date
Honestly after the first game you could see and feel that he wasn't happy with the way things were going. And into a couple of games it looked like he was trying to micro manage because he didn't like the way the offense was being done. It definitely took him out of the game sometimes, the weird things that was beginning to happen getting the team on the field right and some of his timeouts. I think he will be more relaxed this year and really grow as a HC.
Well the comparison to last years coaches they replaced has a lot to do with that. They do appear to be major upgrades. Kind of like by appearances we have gone from Rosane Barr to Reese Witherspoon, or from blaring comedy to competence and intelligence in an attractive package.
Marrow is probably the most loved coach. People also really seem to love Buh.
On the other hand, what is wrong with being excited about coaching hires? Especially when commentators nationally opine that the Gran and Hinshaw hires were exceptional?
nothing wrong with being excited about new hires, I am excited as well but a lot of people will jump ship quickly,, esp on coordinators,, just wait and see.
Given the mess he took over redemption is not an issue. He has consistently improved the recruiting and managed to come close to post season appearances.
He's on track to be one of the few successful UK coaches we've had over the last half century.
Yeah, as a rookie coach he may have made some mistakes but, probably, none of them cost us a game. Not nearly the disasters that arm chair coaches believe in the immediate post game dumps.
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Well people jump ship last year for sure and I was one, but to tell the truth I was never impressed with the way our OC talked last year from the starting gate. He just seemed like he was trying to evade some questions with comedy and that's alright if you can complete the task at hand but he certainly did not do that. The first game was spectacular first half and head scratching poor the second. The under-performance lasted the entire year.
I don't believe Stoops would lose his job or be in hot water if he doesn't get us to a bowl in 2016, but I know some fans can't wait to turn on Stoops. It's funny that you would mention Joker now. When Brooks was our coach, he was bad mouthed continuously by some of our fans. When Joker was our coach, he was accused of all kinds of awful stuff including immoral acts. Which shows that some of our fans are just looking for chances to jump ship and sell out our coach. It's an old habit. Now Stoops is their target. But here are the facts. In 2015, most of Stoops' recruits were still freshmen and sophomores. Stoops has renovated or replaced all of Kentucky's football facilities. He has recruited Kentucky's best classes in modern history. He deserves an opportunity to completely rebuild Kentucky's roster, and he will get it.
Hard for me to imagine anybody getting on his case for "bad coaching hires." Here is why:
1. Ansley just left for Alabama.
2. Brown now coaching at Troy has head coach.
3. Peveto took special teams job at LSU.
4. Buh is a former defensive coordinator who now coaches linebackers and is now also ST Coordinator.
5. Vince Marrow courted by Michigan.
He hired Dawson and as someone said above, took responsibility and made a move after only one year. Also let Maynard go.
As anybody who has hired people for their company, they'll all tell you that sometimes, bad hires happen. It's just part of it. So to constantly bring up the fact he hired Dawson is a bit shortsighted IMO. Now, if he kept him for 3-4 years, yeah, there'd be a point to make. It didn't work out here and Stoops moved on.
He will get more comfortable with being a head coach as well and hopefully, also learn from the mistakes he's made in the past. It's a "high risk, high reward" thing for me. The risk is hiring a guy who has never been a head coach. The reward is that he's recruiting better than ever at Kentucky and hopefully grows into an outstanding coach.
Just my take.
1. Ansley just left for Alabama.
2. Brown now coaching at Troy has head coach.
3. Peveto took special teams job at LSU.
4. Buh is a former defensive coordinator who now coaches linebackers and is now also ST Coordinator.
5. Vince Marrow courted by Michigan.
He hired Dawson and as someone said above, took responsibility and made a move after only one year. Also let Maynard go.
As anybody who has hired people for their company, they'll all tell you that sometimes, bad hires happen. It's just part of it. So to constantly bring up the fact he hired Dawson is a bit shortsighted IMO. Now, if he kept him for 3-4 years, yeah, there'd be a point to make. It didn't work out here and Stoops moved on.
He will get more comfortable with being a head coach as well and hopefully, also learn from the mistakes he's made in the past. It's a "high risk, high reward" thing for me. The risk is hiring a guy who has never been a head coach. The reward is that he's recruiting better than ever at Kentucky and hopefully grows into an outstanding coach.
Just my take.
I agree. Unfortunately, a lot of our fans fall into an old habit of giving a new football coach only a year or 2 to take us to the SEC championship. If he can't do it quickly, then they jump all over the coach. Maybe this happens because of our success in basketball, or maybe they are just unaware of what is really involved in building a college football program. It goes like this. Year #1 for a new SEC football coach is mainly a matter of positive PR and taking the 1st steps in putting together a successful staff. Years #2 and 3 are really about establishing recruiting momentum. When you get into years #4 and 5, you are trying to accelerate the recruiting momentum and revise your coaching staff. I don't think any of this is necessarily peculiar to Stoops, but Stoops is on schedule. Kentucky is Stoops' 1st head coaching job, so he is climbing a learning curve. Fortunately his brothers are helping him. I played football, so I never expected Stoops to shock the world in his 1st 3 or 4 years at Kentucky. But I see him doing a good job with recruiting and hiring, so I am patient. By 2017, I think the roster Stoops is methodically recruiting and building will establish positive momentum in our football program that will last for a number of seasons. Those who just can't wait that long are going to be disappointed, but this is the way of competitive sports.Hard for me to imagine anybody getting on his case for "bad coaching hires." Here is why:
1. Ansley just left for Alabama.
2. Brown now coaching at Troy has head coach.
3. Peveto took special teams job at LSU.
4. Buh is a former defensive coordinator who now coaches linebackers and is now also ST Coordinator.
5. Vince Marrow courted by Michigan.
He hired Dawson and as someone said above, took responsibility and made a move after only one year. Also let Maynard go.
As anybody who has hired people for their company, they'll all tell you that sometimes, bad hires happen. It's just part of it. So to constantly bring up the fact he hired Dawson is a bit shortsighted IMO. Now, if he kept him for 3-4 years, yeah, there'd be a point to make. It didn't work out here and Stoops moved on.
He will get more comfortable with being a head coach as well and hopefully, also learn from the mistakes he's made in the past. It's a "high risk, high reward" thing for me. The risk is hiring a guy who has never been a head coach. The reward is that he's recruiting better than ever at Kentucky and hopefully grows into an outstanding coach.
Just my take.
Once again...MS had a little input into the facilities change, but not nearly as much as the fan revolt that occurred that brought about BOTH Stoops and the new facilities
I try to look at things in context as well as trying to somehow get a look at the "big picture." We all want to go 15-0, we all want SEC and national titles.... no doubt about it. However, I try to take a realistic look at where Kentucky football was when Stoops took over.
I think Stoops has a passion for the game and a passion for making Kentucky a legitimate SEC team. With that and the way he is recruiting, I am more than willing to give it more time to see what he can do with his full compliment of players and more coaching experience.
If you think Stoops had little input into the facilities, then you must be living under a rock. You would know better if you read interviews where Barnhart and Stoops have clarified this. As a security consultant, our firm has seen Stoops' involvement. The facilities upgrades have been in the works since Rich Brooks was our coach. They were delayed a few years for financing reasons, just as some facilities upgrades for basketball have been delayed. Stoops has been involved in some planning aspects since the 1st month he got to Lexington. Sure, Stoops didn't plan the sound system or the parking lot. But he has been directly involved in planning much of the facilities that have directly to do with the functions of his football program.
Many of us on this board have played football as well.
I don't think anyone expected Stoops to shock the world.
But many expect players and the team to improve as the season goes on. The last two season have been total melt downs the second half.
Many of us have waited for decades to see a good team at UK.
If that's not patients I don't know what is.
How many years does Stoops get?
People (myself included) expected too much too soon, for some reason. Maybe it was the knowledge that the program was in vastly better shape even just prior to Coach Brooks stepping out. We just couldn't fully accept the speed and height of the fall under CJP, beginning even prior to the passing of the mantle.
Coach Stoops has had a lot to learn stepping up to HC. I have been disappointed at times, but still fully expect that he is going to prove a very capable HC and get the job done for us.
The first of his kids (other than the JUCO's) are now rising Seniors. I think you will see a marked improvement in this football team in 2016. All we can do is hope it is enough to improve on recent records. I think a mere 7-5 record and bowl appearance will insure we close the deal on this 2017 class, and thereafter, things will probably see greater and sustained success.
Coach Stoops has had a lot to learn stepping up to HC. I have been disappointed at times, but still fully expect that he is going to prove a very capable HC and get the job done for us.
The first of his kids (other than the JUCO's) are now rising Seniors. I think you will see a marked improvement in this football team in 2016. All we can do is hope it is enough to improve on recent records. I think a mere 7-5 record and bowl appearance will insure we close the deal on this 2017 class, and thereafter, things will probably see greater and sustained success.
Not denying any of that, but if you don't think that the fan revolt lead to ALL of the things you mentioned then you sir havebeen living under a rock and ANY coach that would have gotten this job was going to get to do the same. With that I hope Stoops gets this done and if not things are set up for the next guy.
I have visited this thread every day trying to figure out where I stand on that "confidence question". To begin with, confident about what? I suppose the unspecified context is "confidence to raise UK football to the next level" or some similar thought.
At this time I have neither high or low "confidence levels" and am completely in a Missouri "show me" mode. I have no idea how that translates to a confidence level. For me the 2016 season is critical to answering the "confidence" question. If the program is indeed "moving in the right direction", a 6 win season is a reasonable expectation for this year. Since 6 wins are expected achieving same will not necessarily establish a high level of confidence. However failure to win 6 will seriously damage it. JMO.
Peace
At this time I have neither high or low "confidence levels" and am completely in a Missouri "show me" mode. I have no idea how that translates to a confidence level. For me the 2016 season is critical to answering the "confidence" question. If the program is indeed "moving in the right direction", a 6 win season is a reasonable expectation for this year. Since 6 wins are expected achieving same will not necessarily establish a high level of confidence. However failure to win 6 will seriously damage it. JMO.
Peace
My confidence was solid prior to the 2015 season. Certainly, last year took a toll on that confidence.
My doubts about Stoops have nothing to do with wins and losses. In fact, I guess back-to-back five win seasons combined with excellent recruiting (by UK standards) could easily equal an increased confidence level. It doesn't with me. Not yet anyway.
There were too many fundamental errors last year, both on the field and on the sideline. Stoops hasn't been here long enough to control the talent disparity between UK and some of their league rivals, but he should be able to get this team lined up for kicks. He should be able to not allow a FB dive to be called at midfield on a critical 4th and 2 at Georgia. The Vanderbilt game was a comedy of errors. I could go on and on, but my post 2015 12-step program won't allow it (LOL).
While my confidence in Stoops is shaken, I haven't quit on the thought that he could potentially get the job done. He's getting better players. With any luck, he's gotten better coaches too. We'll find out.
GBB!!!
My doubts about Stoops have nothing to do with wins and losses. In fact, I guess back-to-back five win seasons combined with excellent recruiting (by UK standards) could easily equal an increased confidence level. It doesn't with me. Not yet anyway.
There were too many fundamental errors last year, both on the field and on the sideline. Stoops hasn't been here long enough to control the talent disparity between UK and some of their league rivals, but he should be able to get this team lined up for kicks. He should be able to not allow a FB dive to be called at midfield on a critical 4th and 2 at Georgia. The Vanderbilt game was a comedy of errors. I could go on and on, but my post 2015 12-step program won't allow it (LOL).
While my confidence in Stoops is shaken, I haven't quit on the thought that he could potentially get the job done. He's getting better players. With any luck, he's gotten better coaches too. We'll find out.
GBB!!!
1. I get tired of "some fans can't wait to turn on current coach" baloney. Like UK fans have this insane expectation...
2. Joker did partake in some heavily rumored immoral acts...but his biggest problem was not adultery...it was 2-10 seasons, losing to WKU at home, getting hammered by Vandy two years in a row, UL sprinting ahead of UK in short time, etc..
3. Stoops biggest issue is Brooks showed you can achieve modest results and get to low tier bowl games by taking care of low level SEC teams, 3 OOC scrubs and an occasional upsets in SEC helps your cause (little of which Stoops has accomplished).
4. Stoops recruits will be Sr this upcoming fall. Stoops has also recruited a fair amount of Juco and you have to see their results in two years on campus.
5. THe only thing keeping a glimmer of hope in fans is Stoops recruiting..which is really great job by staff.
It isn't crazy to expect to beat 3 OOC scrubs and find a way to get 3 more wins vs Vandy (they are way down w/o Franklin), UL (they were a bad football team last year) Mizzou, USC and there have been other teams with down years that we've blown the past 2 years.
Isn't it always one issue or the other that prevents UK football attaining success.
Sure seems like it. Of course I don't follow other teams and their ups and downs.
I for one am happy with coach Stoops. Has he made mistakes, sure he has. But my hope is that he is learning from those mistakes. He has made what appears to be some great hires this off season. Now he has the chance to make one more to replace coach Buh, my money is on him making another great hire. Here are the reasons I see things moving in a positive direction.
1. I look for the Gran hiring to be big in more ways than one. On field coaching of the offense, but also a steadying influence on coach Stoops on the sidelines, maybe helping him make wiser decisions. Gran has more experience than Dawson did, so I expect this to be a factor.
2. We were one of, if not the, youngest team in America last year, so we will have more experience and growth in that regard.
3. Everyone talks about player development and many of these same people put down coach Brumbaugh and Scharlman for a lack of that. First off, they really have not had a lot to work with, at least coach Scharlman. But to me player development goes WAY beyond the position coaches, it starts with the S&C coaches. And with Mark Hill here now I feel that we will make a huge leap in having SEC type bodies on the field. Coach Hill will make Brumbaugh and Scharlman both look better.
That is how I am viewing things, we are moving at a glacial pace, but we are moving forward and that is what matters. My fear is this process will take longer than what most of us expect(it already has) I say keep up the good work coach Stoops and lets get to a bowl game THIS year!!
1. I look for the Gran hiring to be big in more ways than one. On field coaching of the offense, but also a steadying influence on coach Stoops on the sidelines, maybe helping him make wiser decisions. Gran has more experience than Dawson did, so I expect this to be a factor.
2. We were one of, if not the, youngest team in America last year, so we will have more experience and growth in that regard.
3. Everyone talks about player development and many of these same people put down coach Brumbaugh and Scharlman for a lack of that. First off, they really have not had a lot to work with, at least coach Scharlman. But to me player development goes WAY beyond the position coaches, it starts with the S&C coaches. And with Mark Hill here now I feel that we will make a huge leap in having SEC type bodies on the field. Coach Hill will make Brumbaugh and Scharlman both look better.
That is how I am viewing things, we are moving at a glacial pace, but we are moving forward and that is what matters. My fear is this process will take longer than what most of us expect(it already has) I say keep up the good work coach Stoops and lets get to a bowl game THIS year!!
I don't think anyone here is advocating Coach Stoops being fired, not close to feeling that at all for me anyway. It's just that many are not happy with what we have seen on the field so far. The second half of the last two years have been embarrassing results. I really think Coach will grow into a very good head coach someday,, I hope its this year. He obviously has the background and he seems to be a very nice guy who certainly has a good vision for the program. Its just that recruiting alone will not be enough, there has to be improvement on the sideline during games also, hopefully with new assistants and growth by Coach Stoops as well, next season will be a year that we all want to see, I will once again be at CWS in the fall cheering on Coach but even more so the team.
Confidence is not high. I'll just be blunt...
What has he proven so far? That he can recruit and get some talent here. That's it folks. That. Is. It.
In game coaching? Not good.
In game organization/management? Not good.
In game strategy? Not good.
Staff organization? Not good.
Player and team preparation/planning for games? Not good.
Player discipline? Not good.
Player development? Not good for the most part.
Having a clear purpose on offense? having an identity? After 4 years, um no. Not good.
We're running out of "we'll wait and see" time and I can't listen to one more poster say, "well, he'll learn and hopefully he'll get better". Ugh. The SEC is no place to learn how to be a head coach. Has he improved on anything since he's been here? Anything I listed above? If anything last season, it got worse. That's not a good sign. It's not impossible that he begins to have success here, but we can't wait and see forever. He's done a nice job marketing the program and getting some talented guys, but he's running out of time. As UK football fans, we do not expect too much, but for the love of God some basic football coaching competency would be nice.
What has he proven so far? That he can recruit and get some talent here. That's it folks. That. Is. It.
In game coaching? Not good.
In game organization/management? Not good.
In game strategy? Not good.
Staff organization? Not good.
Player and team preparation/planning for games? Not good.
Player discipline? Not good.
Player development? Not good for the most part.
Having a clear purpose on offense? having an identity? After 4 years, um no. Not good.
We're running out of "we'll wait and see" time and I can't listen to one more poster say, "well, he'll learn and hopefully he'll get better". Ugh. The SEC is no place to learn how to be a head coach. Has he improved on anything since he's been here? Anything I listed above? If anything last season, it got worse. That's not a good sign. It's not impossible that he begins to have success here, but we can't wait and see forever. He's done a nice job marketing the program and getting some talented guys, but he's running out of time. As UK football fans, we do not expect too much, but for the love of God some basic football coaching competency would be nice.
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If you are grading him solely by wins on the field then this will not be a good year for him. The schedule is tough and he has no quarterback. In the SEC that is a guaranteed way to lose games. So in order to grade him, I think we have to wait at least one more year.
On the surface, the recruiting has looked good. However, player development has not been good. Coaching has not been good. Hopefully, the new hires will change that.
My fear is that Stoops will do all things right except for translating all that good effort into wins on the field, which, in the end, is the only thing that matters. Frankly, I have little confidence that he can be a winner.
... after 3 years.
Players learn from mistakes - or not.
Coaches learn from mistakes - or not.
Indications are Stoops is learning from his mistakes.
Players learn from mistakes - or not.
Coaches learn from mistakes - or not.
Indications are Stoops is learning from his mistakes.
Year 4 for Stoops , Tougher schedule , Putting in another New Offense and system , QB and Backup unknowns , same DC And Southern Miss right out of the gate against our former OC Shannon Dawson ! Going to be interesting From Game #1 !
Going to be the most interesting first game since Otis went to last game. You know Dawson is oing to want his very bad.
Well, since he hasn't coached since last fall it would be difficult to make that call, but his decision to change OC would be evidence of learning from ones' mistakes. Also, the decision to name a ST Coordinator might be evidence of another. The additions of QC guys might be another example. The change in the strength program/coaches could be another...
... and the decision to sign a 5 star might be one more:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
I also have been told in strict confidence that he recently stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
Almost all of what you comment on is on the O side of the ball (ex the V WR coverage on the sideline). That's why Gran was given autonomy there. I doubt he'd have made very many if any of those poor calls. So when crunch time comes, I think we'll see smarter choices.
High in Stoops
Low in immediate success. I'm not sure the group this year wins 5. But very high on Stoops
Low in immediate success. I'm not sure the group this year wins 5. But very high on Stoops