How Much is Too Much?

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Let me tell you how much this team that won the State Little League title and is now a few wins away from Williamsport has played. HO - LEE - CHIT.

They played a 14 game LL season. Instead of playing in our select league they made a travel ball team. They played 58 games under the travel team banner including tournaments in Omaha, Utah, and Bend, OR. They went 37-20-1 and always played in Gold/Majors so, it does jive that Little League all star teams are competitive with the better travel teams. Adding in district and state Little League games they are now exactly 80 games into a 17ing 12u season. From Mid March-July. Not to mention the 20 games they played last fall plus winter workout sessions.

The saddest part is they beat another team that has played just as much by 1 run in the finals. The devastation of losing after going all in to win the state LL as a 12u team (12u is the only year Little League goes past state to Regionals and Williamsport) was brutal. Those that lost in the finals were absolutely balling. It is too much.

So the nostalgia of the LLWS is just that for me now. The idea that its some local kids that played in the rec league and refined their skills out on the sandlot after school everyday is gone. All competitive youth baseball has jumped the shark. If you want to win plastic rings or go to Williamsport, the path is the same. Specialization. Year around baseball. Private coaching. And minimal time for other activities of course.

I will still argue that the path to success at the higher levels (big boy high school or college baseball) has very little to do with how good you were at baseball at 10-12 (considering at that age there are girls just as good as the boys) but everything to do with how athletic you are and how hard you are willing to work from age 13-18.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Didn’t read your entire book, but if you’re asking “is this too much?”, you’re a terrible parent.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Go play in California, it's the way
to go broke & woke but it's something else

 

[patdog]

Let me tell you how much this team that won the State Little League title and is now a few wins away from Williamsport has played. HO - LEE - CHIT.

They played a 14 game LL season. Instead of playing in our select league they made a travel ball team. They played 58 games under the travel team banner including tournaments in Omaha, Utah, and Bend, OR. They went 37-20-1 and always played in Gold/Majors so, it does jive that Little League all star teams are competitive with the better travel teams. Adding in district and state Little League games they are now exactly 80 games into a 17ing 12u season. From Mid March-July. Not to mention the 20 games they played last fall plus winter workout sessions.

The saddest part is they beat another team that has played just as much by 1 run in the finals. The devastation of losing after going all in to win the state LL as a 12u team (12u is the only year Little League goes past state to Regionals and Williamsport) was brutal. Those that lost in the finals were absolutely balling. It is too much.

So the nostalgia of the LLWS is just that for me now. The idea that its some local kids that played in the rec league and refined their skills out on the sandlot after school everyday is gone. All competitive youth baseball has jumped the shark. If you want to win plastic rings or go to Williamsport, the path is the same. Specialization. Year around baseball. Private coaching. And minimal time for other activities of course.

I will still argue that the path to success at the higher levels (big boy high school or college baseball) has very little to do with how good you were at baseball at 10-12 (considering at that age there are girls just as good as the boys) but everything to do with how athletic you are and how hard you are willing to work from age 13-18.

I see a bunch of burned out kids by the time they get to high school.

 

[SteelCurtain74]

I would love to see total pitch counts for some of those kids.

 

[patdog]

It’s hilarious to me how ESPN markets the LL World Series as some kind of nostalgic kids playing baseball thing. When every team there is a professional organization that is recruiting , and likely cheating, their a$$ off.

 

[aTotal360]

It’s hilarious to me how ESPN markets the LL World Series as some kind of nostalgic kids playing baseball thing. When every team there is a professional organization that is recruiting , and likely cheating, their a$$ off.

And most people don't realize that the LLWS isn't the highest level of youth baseball. It just has the branding.

 

[AttalaDawg72]

Little league and travel ball are a waste of time and money for 90% of kids and families. I can’t imagine spending a summer weekend watching little league baseball in this heat.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

And most people don't realize that the LLWS isn't the highest level of youth baseball. It just has the branding.

It's not that simple. People do realize that.....but they still think playing all those games is the best way to prepare for the future. And heck who knows who all is right in this situation, I mean we are just now seeing the results of the last decade of travel ball explosion at the pro level.

The only thing I know for certain is that kids need rest and recovery. They also need some set time for strength training and overall athleticism training. Baseball games do not give you this, but it's still needed for moments inside those games. Practice CAN give it to you, if done say, like the Dominicans. Most of American practices involve standing around just like the games. I mean think about it how much of a typical practice, or shlt even a 2-game Saturday pool play day at a tournament, is actually athletic movement? 2%? Most is the kids screwing off with hamburgers and parents one-upping each other with their tents and fans.

At this point the number of baseball kids with arm problems, soccer kids with knee problems, etc. is really starting to show, more than anything else. I mean our 8th grade QB (legit talent) just had some type of secretive surgery on his arm (not sure if elbow or shoulder), I'm assuming simply because he throws too much. Throws all day at practices, and does camps all summer, in addition to what he likely does at home or with a trainer.

 

[aTotal360]

Little league and travel ball are a waste of time and money for 90% of kids and families.

Disagree, but I get your point.

If a kid and his family want to do it and can afford it...who gives a crap? The kid just wants to have fun. The family just wants to support their kid.

Most of y'all believe the parents think they are building the next Mike Trout. There are some that think that, but the majority of parents who can afford to do it are aware of the reality.

 

[dogmatic001]

Disagree, but I get your point.

If a kid and his family want to do it and can afford it...who gives a crap? The kid just wants to have fun. The family just wants to support their kid.

Most of y'all believe the parents think they are building the next Mike Trout. There are some that think that, but the majority of parents who can afford to do it are aware of the reality.

I tend to agree with Total360. It's not for everyone but, for athletic kids who like baseball and whose friend group is also in that world, it's enjoyable.

Like anything, parents can take it too far, but that falls more on parenting, and that parental trait would show itself in some other way if not for baseball.

I'm looking back on it now - my son is 18 and just graduated from high school and from playing baseball - we did spend a lot of time and money doing it, but what else were we going to do? We were together as a family a lot more than we likely would have been without it.

If it's not for your kid, it's not for him.

Also, lots of kids do burn out by the time they're in high school. Lots of them. But such is life. If your kids are good kids, and they have good kids as their friends, and they're all playing baseball, that's pretty hard to beat in the real world application of parenting.

 

[stateu1]

Disagree, but I get your point.

If a kid and his family want to do it and can afford it...who gives a crap? The kid just wants to have fun. The family just wants to support their kid.

Most of y'all believe the parents think they are building the next Mike Trout. There are some that think that, but the majority of parents who can afford to do it are aware of the reality.

Exactly. My kid was mediocre at best, but he loved being around the team. We found a AA team that was cheap, only practiced a couple times a week and played from March-June. He had a blast even getting his *** kicked. Travel ball at least gives you the best chance to make the high school team.

We also made life long friends.

ETA my son's roommates at State right now were met through baseball

 

[dogmatic001]

Exactly. My kid was mediocre at best, but he loved being around the team. We found a AA team that was cheap, only practiced a couple times a week and played from March-June. He had a blast even getting his *** kicked. Travel ball at least gives you the best chance to make the high school team.

We also made life long friends.

I'd say that fits my son's experience exactly. It is important to find a team that wants to play as much or as little, and travel as much or as little as you want. You can easily spend more time at baseball facilities in Oxford, Tupelo and Red Bay than you'd ever imagined you would like, and all the tediums and unpleasantnesses you imagine do apply, but the good side of the experiences carry significant weight too. Whether they balance or outweigh the other depends on each situation, but there are a lot of good experiences that just are not likely to happen any other way.

I'd agree it's basically mandatory to play travel ball if your kid wants to play high school baseball, at least at any program of significant size. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I don't know how you'd get to ingrain the necessary skills otherwise. There's just not time in junior high baseball practice to learn much of what needs to already be second nature by then. At high school tryout time, it gets pretty brutal.

 

[615dawg]

Yall are talking about baseball, but youth volleyball in Mississippi is having a bit of a reckoning. Lots of parents are figuring out its just not worth it, and Mississippi teams cannot compete out of the region.

There's a long text thread amongst about 20 dads right now about the latest college commitment. Arguably the best non-connected player* in the state's history just committed to Loyola Marymount. That's fine and hopefully she will do well, but that's the best player in the state going to a decent mid-major. Most players in Mississippi are going JUCO with an occasional D2 signee. Its got people questioning spending $10k+ a year.

 

[Bulldog45]

Once I started to figure out how it all works I quit paying attention to the LLWS hoopla. No idea when the switched flipped from it being what it was intended and marketed to be to what it is now, but I’m guessing it was a gradual slide with teams starting to do it and then it snowballed from there. But I see it all the time with Dizzy Dean and whatever they call Dixie Youth these days, kids play in those leagues and also have a tournament team on the side made up of the preselected allstars that go in to compete for those championships. Had one of those teams from a little old delta town kicked out of a tournament earlier in the year for an illegal roster. So for all the griping people do about “travel ball”, many of the “rec” leagues are just as bad if not worse.

 

[stateu1]

The thing about Little League is that they are 13-14 year old kids playing on a field entirely too small. I do not know the exact dimensions but compared to USSSA it is a huge difference.

 

[johnson86-1]

Disagree, but I get your point.

If a kid and his family want to do it and can afford it...who gives a crap? The kid just wants to have fun. The family just wants to support their kid.

Most of y'all believe the parents think they are building the next Mike Trout. There are some that think that, but the majority of parents who can afford to do it are aware of the reality.

Based on anecdotal data, it seems like the majorityu of the parents complain about the time suck, the kids complain about the time suck and not getting to just play in the neighborhood or do other things, but everybody is scared to scale back because they don't want their kids to be left behind. Also I think the majority of the parents being able to afford it definitely depends on the definition of afford. Obviously they can afford to make payments, but are the majority out of credit card debt at least and saving an amount that would project to allow them to retire by 65? I've got no data on that but I am skeptical.

 

[PhiDawg]

Once I started to figure out how it all works I quit paying attention to the LLWS hoopla. No idea when the switched flipped from it being what it was intended and marketed to be to what it is now, but I’m guessing it was a gradual slide with teams starting to do it and then it snowballed from there. But I see it all the time with Dizzy Dean and whatever they call Dixie Youth these days, kids play in those leagues and also have a tournament team on the side made up of the preselected allstars that go in to compete for those championships. Had one of those teams from a little old delta town kicked out of a tournament earlier in the year for an illegal roster. So for all the griping people do about “travel ball”, many of the “rec” leagues are just as bad if not worse.

Yall are talking about baseball, but youth volleyball in Mississippi is having a bit of a reckoning. Lots of parents are figuring out its just not worth it, and Mississippi teams cannot compete out of the region.

There's a long text thread amongst about 20 dads right now about the latest college commitment. Arguably the best non-connected player* in the state's history just committed to Loyola Marymount. That's fine and hopefully she will do well, but that's the best player in the state going to a decent mid-major. Most players in Mississippi are going JUCO with an occasional D2 signee. Its got people questioning spending $10k+ a year.

So much of this ^^^^^

 

[ckDOG]

It's great that kids have obligations to a team and stay busy after school and on the weekends with developing talents and being a good teammate. Those are lifelong skills. That can be baseball, scouts, ballet, theater, or whatever. We try to keep our daughter busy with several things and it's awesome to see her learn and learn another what obligations are.

That said, we pull back often when we see her getting overcommitted (after the commitment is done, of course). Hell it's like a 2nd job for us sometimes just getting her around town to meet the commitments we all signed up for.

But kids need to be kids and left to be bored sometimes with their own imagination and resourcefulness. We don't need to teach them to be checklists or constantly have someone managing their schedule for them either. Somewhere along the line we forgot that and got obsessed with being perfectionists and busy all the damn time. Folks need to learn to ease up and slow down. Little Johnny and Jill are going to be fine if they play the rec league with 1 game a week at the local ball field.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Yall are talking about baseball, but youth volleyball in Mississippi is having a bit of a reckoning. Lots of parents are figuring out its just not worth it, and Mississippi teams cannot compete out of the region.

There's a long text thread amongst about 20 dads right now about the latest college commitment. Arguably the best non-connected player* in the state's history just committed to Loyola Marymount. That's fine and hopefully she will do well, but that's the best player in the state going to a decent mid-major. Most players in Mississippi are going JUCO with an occasional D2 signee. Its got people questioning spending $10k+ a year.

Same goes for softball here. Families spending all this money for these girls to play and they end up at Northwest CC at best. There’s maybe a handful in the whole state that end up playing major college softball but that’s it. Hernando has a girl going to play at Arkansas.

If the girl loves softball and being around her team it’s one thing but some of these dads are delusional thinking their baby girl is going to end up at Oklahoma playing softball.

 

[stateu1]

Same goes for softball here. Families spending all this money for these girls to play and they end up at Northwest CC at best. There’s maybe a handful in the whole state that end up playing major college softball but that’s it. Hernando has a girl going to play at Arkansas.

If the girl loves softball and being around her team it’s one thing but some of these dads are delusional thinking their baby girl is going to end up at Oklahoma playing softball.

True. But to some, a full ride to CC matters for more than sports.

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

It's great that kids have obligations to a team and stay busy after school and on the weekends with developing talents and being a good teammate. Those are lifelong skills. That can be baseball, scouts, ballet, theater, or whatever. We try to keep our daughter busy with several things and it's awesome to see her learn and learn another what obligations are.

That said, we pull back often when we see her getting overcommitted (after the commitment is done, of course). Hell it's like a 2nd job for us sometimes just getting her around town to meet the commitments we all signed up for.

But kids need to be kids and left to be bored sometimes with their own imagination and resourcefulness. We don't need to teach them to be checklists or constantly have someone managing their schedule for them either. Somewhere along the line we forgot that and got obsessed with being perfectionists and busy all the damn time. Folks need to learn to ease up and slow down. Little Johnny and Jill are going to be fine if they play the rec league with 1 game a week at the local ball field.

This. Our oldest was into baseball and could hit/field pretty well when he was at that age, and a few of his friends were going on to the travel ball team. He got the coveted "invite", which really just amounted to us paying the sign-up fee for the team (I think it was $3-$4,000 back then) and committing to the travel schedule which was literally across the Mountain West.

We didn't do it. The parents we knew that were in it already exhibited the "living vicariously through the kids" traits, and we wanted him to have more unstructured time. That was good for our family. If people like it and it's a good experience, then good for them.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Most of y'all believe the parents think they are building the next Mike Trout. There are some that think that, but the majority of parents who can afford to do it are aware of the reality.

I highly doubt this.

He had a blast even getting his *** kicked.

I highly doubt this as well.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Same goes for softball here. Families spending all this money for these girls to play and they end up at Northwest CC at best. There’s maybe a handful in the whole state that end up playing major college softball but that’s it. Hernando has a girl going to play at Arkansas.

If the girl loves softball and being around her team it’s one thing but some of these dads are delusional thinking their baby girl is going to end up at Oklahoma playing softball.

My neighbot is currently in San Bernadino, CA with his 12 year old daughter and they are 2-0 in the Little League Softball Regionals. They have beaten Colorado and Montana a combined 21-4. His daughter is batting last and is 0-3 with 2K's and a walk so far. She's subbing into RF. But the Dad told my wife last week that hes $50-60K into softball this season. I have to assume he's floating a lot of the team's/coach's expenses to spend that kind of money. It appears his daughter is the worst player on the team

I can't confirm this is the case, but I just don't see how the guy has spent $50k in a single season if he's not buying his kid a spot on the team.

 

[615dawg]

True. But to some, a full ride to CC matters for more than sports.

A 20 ACT gets you a full ride to CC. And while it may piss some off, CCs (especially sports) are full of the bottom quintile of society. It's not like it was a generation or even 10 years ago when a decent number of good students went to CC.

JUCO sports are awful now. The transfer portal has effectively closed the JC to D1 pipeline.

 

[NukeDogg]

My neighbot is currently in San Bernadino, CA with his 12 year old daughter and they are 2-0 in the Little League Softball Regionals. They have beaten Colorado and Montana a combined 21-4. His daughter is batting last and is 0-3 with 2K's and a walk so far. She's subbing into RF. But the Dad told my wife last week that hes $50-60K into softball this season. I have to assume he's floating a lot of the team's/coach's expenses to spend that kind of money. It appears his daughter is the worst player on the team

I can't confirm this is the case, but I just don't see how the guy has spent $50k in a single season if he's not buying his kid a spot on the team.

Even if his daughter was the #1 12 yr old player in the country that amount of $ is asinine at this age. Hell, at any age.

 

[FormerBully]

I know several high school coaches. They tell me that tryouts are the worst time of year for them because of the parents of kids who do not make the team. One even let me hear a voicemail from a dad dog cussing him because his boy was cut. Yes, travel ball can help a child make a high school team, but there are limited spots available on each team. One of them told me it breaks his heart to cut them because he knows the time and money they have put in. Also, they find it funny that each year a kid who has never played travel ball makes the team because God blesses him with pure talent. That also leads to cussing. If your kid has it, he has it.

 

[AttalaDawg72]

Disagree, but I get your point.

If a kid and his family want to do it and can afford it...who gives a crap? The kid just wants to have fun. The family just wants to support their kid.

Most of y'all believe the parents think they are building the next Mike Trout. There are some that think that, but the majority of parents who can afford to do it are aware of the reality.

They can have at it, it’s their choice. I’m not going to stop them. I still think it’s a waste of money and time for 90% that participate.

 

[aTotal360]

They can have at it, it’s their choice. I’m not going to stop them. I still think it’s a waste of money and time for 90% that participate.

Attending sporting events is also a waste of time. Both are forms of entertainment. Spend your money as you wish.

 

[AttalaDawg72]

Attending sporting events is also a waste of time. Both are forms of entertainment. Spend your money as you wish.

I agree. That’s why I don’t attend sporting events

 

[TimberBeast]

Yall are talking about baseball, but youth volleyball in Mississippi is having a bit of a reckoning. Lots of parents are figuring out its just not worth it, and Mississippi teams cannot compete out of the region.

There's a long text thread amongst about 20 dads right now about the latest college commitment. Arguably the best non-connected player* in the state's history just committed to Loyola Marymount. That's fine and hopefully she will do well, but that's the best player in the state going to a decent mid-major. Most players in Mississippi are going JUCO with an occasional D2 signee. Its got people questioning spending $10k+ a year.

Yeah volleyball is the newest one, at least on the MS Coast it's growing out of hand. Our daughter played everything growing up and went to our high school volleyball tryouts one year with a friend just for fun, this was about 6 years ago. She said there were about 80 girls there to fill about 8 spots, there was no way you were making it near the team(s) unless you grew up playing travel volleyball teams.

 

[johnson86-1]

True. But to some, a full ride to CC matters for more than sports.

Like bragging rights?

You can pay a year's tuition at community college for the cost of one year of travel ball probably. You take what some people spend on travel ball for 8 year olds and put it in a 527 and that would probably cover two years of tuition by the time they get there.

 

[paindonthurt]

Disagree, but I get your point.

If a kid and his family want to do it and can afford it...who gives a crap? The kid just wants to have fun. The family just wants to support their kid.

Most of y'all believe the parents think they are building the next Mike Trout. There are some that think that, but the majority of parents who can afford to do it are aware of the reality.

This is the correct take.

But you are also right in that there are a lot of parents who take it too far. Even if the kid wanted to quit they keep pushing.

Like most things the few retards cause an issue for the rest.

 

[paindonthurt]

Yall are talking about baseball, but youth volleyball in Mississippi is having a bit of a reckoning. Lots of parents are figuring out its just not worth it, and Mississippi teams cannot compete out of the region.

There's a long text thread amongst about 20 dads right now about the latest college commitment. Arguably the best non-connected player* in the state's history just committed to Loyola Marymount. That's fine and hopefully she will do well, but that's the best player in the state going to a decent mid-major. Most players in Mississippi are going JUCO with an occasional D2 signee. Its got people questioning spending $10k+ a year.

Devil's advocate but if a family without the means to pay college, its probably a great avenue even if they go to a small school.

Then again i guess the families paying $10k plus a year can afford college.

 

[paindonthurt]

That said, we pull back often when we see her getting overcommitted (after the commitment is done, of course).

Good parenting

 

[paindonthurt]

I highly doubt this.

Double digit goat is smarter than everyone!!!

$2.9 million

 

[stateu1]

Like bragging rights?

You can pay a year's tuition at community college for the cost of one year of travel ball probably. You take what some people spend on travel ball for 8 year olds and put it in a 527 and that would probably cover two years of tuition by the time they get there.

Or a 529

 

[johnson86-1]

Or a 529

That's a good option too. I prefer my tax shelters to be things I make up in my head so the IRS doesn't even know where to look.**

 

[dawgstudent]

I agree. That’s why I don’t attend sporting events

So what do you spend your money on that's sports related?

 

[stateu1]

So what do you spend your money on that's sports related?

Free chat, clearly.