Howlands best is behind him

Lettucexxxx

All-Conference
Oct 16, 2012
4,562
1,047
113
And that's ok. We needed to bring our men's BB program out of a dumpster. No better way to do it than to bring a guy in with a winning pedigree. I bet Howland blew the interview out of the water...that's great....But now we are faced with a cold hard truth?! Does he reach the fire inside of a college player? No, is my answer.

i just don't see the motivation behind anyone on our team that leads me into thinking any fire exist. There is no fear of getting benched, there's no hard stares, there's no chew out sessions.....these kids are coddled. The lack of discipline is disturbing. There's not even any smoke. Just a few lighting bugs floating around the 17ing court.

Some coaches can reach down, grab a hand full of sack and pull it out of your mouth....and make you swallow it back, just to prove that you DO have nuts. Howland, hurts me to type, doesn't possess this anymore. He'd rather massage the nuts instead of kick em. That does not work with the style players we recruit. I believe leadership starts at the top and its gloss is unwavering as it trickles down. Without much gloss, we don't shine.....and we don't have 1 guy on the team who WANTS to be the torch barrier. That shows a lack of respect to your coach.

From what I've watched, on into the 3rd year, we have a coach who appreciates his retirement job, enjoys the "slowed down" lifestyle of Starkville.....and has completely rounded his edge to his once fiery demeanor. We know he is been to final 4's. We know he is upthere with the Addidas folks. What we don't know, can he lite a fire?

JoMo sounds like he is going to hold kids accountable. In fact, it was the first thing he said in his presser.
We already know that Andy C ain't putting up with the ********. His kids respect him.
Vic....Vic is a top 5 women's coach in the world. He lights the entire floor ablaze with his passion.

If Howland wants to stick around he might wanna sit with these folks at the lunch table.....not before dumping his tray of granola bread and Nutella.
 
Last edited:
Aug 29, 2004
466
186
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Maybe your right but we have a lot bball left this year and I would give him another 2 years before making a change. Unless of course our guys start throwing punches at each other a la Retardo Sid Knee.
 

Msubulldogfan1

Freshman
Sep 12, 2013
8,835
80
48
Maybe your right but we have a lot bball left this year and I would give him another 2 years before making a change. Unless of course our guys start throwing punches at each other a la Retardo Sid Knee.
Which would not surprise me. Our guys act like they hate each other.
 

maroonmania

All-Conference
Feb 23, 2008
11,389
1,165
113
I ask this in no way because I'm ready to get rid of Howland but I'm just curious, why has Kermit Davis never seriously been considered for our BB HC job? He has a 315-182 career coaching record at MTSU with multiple trips to the NCAA (although I guess he only had one when Howland was hired). Played at MSU in 81-82 and has a good coaching pedigree. He was 31-5 last year. I know you don't turn down Ben Howland if you can get him when we hired him but why would we have hired Rick Ray over Davis for pete's sake?
 

Lettucexxxx

All-Conference
Oct 16, 2012
4,562
1,047
113
The man had more nba talent in two years at UCLA than we have had in 70. Of course he was gonna win a few games.

Look, he is good coach now but not great. You wanna see what a great coach looks like:
 

Oldman.sixpack

Redshirt
Dec 2, 2017
71
0
0
Kermit Davis Jr. - Why is everybody so obsessed with him. I don't remember ever seeing him in the Final Four. Maybe I'm wrong, but he hasn't set the world on fire either.
 

mstateglfr

All-American
Feb 24, 2008
17,008
6,835
113
The man had more nba talent in two years at UCLA than we have had in 70. Of course he was gonna win a few games.

Look, he is good coach now but not great. You wanna see what a great coach looks like:

Coming into this season, he was 31-35 at Texas. He is currently 42-40 overall at UT.
They finished 4th, 10th, and will most likely finjsh about 5th this season in conference...with the projected #1 draft pick on the team.

He was the It coach at VcU, but that a rough example for your argument, honestly.
11 wins last season.
 

missouridawg

Junior
Oct 6, 2009
9,407
309
83
The man had more nba talent in two years at UCLA than we have had in 70. Of course he was gonna win a few games.

Look, he is good coach now but not great. You wanna see what a great coach looks like:

Swing and a miss.
 

Lettucexxxx

All-Conference
Oct 16, 2012
4,562
1,047
113
Wanna make a bet who has more wins when both careers are over?

Wanna make a side bet on who will be at which school the longer?

Wanna make a hypothetical bet, that if we could have had Smart 3 years ago, we would have taken him over Howland?

Right now, today, who would you rather have in Starkville, a young fiery, proven coach? Or a coach that was fired from his last job and is pushing 80 years old? Be honest and answer that question.
 

Shamoan

Redshirt
Jun 27, 2013
12,466
0
0
Oh no. You have done it now....this will not be tolerated by the sps gestapo of three.
 

BulldogBlitz

Heisman
Dec 11, 2008
18,526
26,991
113
UT gives 2 ***** for basketball. He can get a long run with the rope they have him. He'll outlast their current foosball coach.
 

DAWG61

Redshirt
Feb 26, 2008
10,111
0
0
Howland needs a Jamie Dixon type top assistant like he had with Jamie Dixon at both N. Arizona and all of his time at Pitt. Dixon then went on to be more successful at Pitt than Howland and has TCU ranked this year last I looked.
 

Lettucexxxx

All-Conference
Oct 16, 2012
4,562
1,047
113
Howland needs a Jamie Dixon type top assistant like he had with Jamie Dixon at both N. Arizona and all of his time at Pitt. Dixon then went on to be more successful at Pitt than Howland and has TCU ranked this year last I looked.

Yep, TCU is a very good team. A very good team Smart and Texas took down at the buzzer last night. Hell of a game. I'd be happy with either of those fellas.

When you are 89 years old, it's just hard to fire up a 19 year old kid...without dday stories or purple heart medals. 17, I fall asleep during our mic'ed up timeouts. I've heard deeper conversation inside of a kindergarten bathroom**
 

Junction John

Redshirt
Oct 22, 2014
3,249
0
0
Calipari is 58. Pitino is 65. Coach K is 70. I'd say these guys get fired up.

Howland is 60. You might not like his demeanor (and I get that), but you can't blame it on his age. He ain't that old.


Bonus lookup: Vic Shaefer is 56, just for reference.
 

Shamoan

Redshirt
Jun 27, 2013
12,466
0
0
It's your shift already? I kid, but I can honestly say I appreciate your civility and willingness to act like an adult, although we disagree on this particular item.
 

She Mate Me

Heisman
Dec 7, 2008
15,449
15,139
113

She Mate Me

Heisman
Dec 7, 2008
15,449
15,139
113
Coming into this season, he was 31-35 at Texas. He is currently 42-40 overall at UT.
They finished 4th, 10th, and will most likely finjsh about 5th this season in conference...with the projected #1 draft pick on the team.

He was the It coach at VcU, but that a rough example for your argument, honestly.
11 wins last season.

I do find it funny that 153 year old Rick Barnes, that guy who made Texas relevant and took them to 16 NCAAs in his 17 years who they FIRED, has a better team than good ole Shaka this year. They were better last year too.
 

She Mate Me

Heisman
Dec 7, 2008
15,449
15,139
113
It's your shift already? I kid, but I can honestly say I appreciate your civility and willingness to act like an adult, although we disagree on this particular item.

I'm not real good at it, but I really do try to be civil nearly all the time. I don't consider strenuously debating a subject uncivil. Some really don't like to be disagreed with and I can understand that. I think if you care to look, I rarely start any name calling or calling somebody stupid (if I do, I'm wrong to do it). Once that happens to me though my Irish temper rolls and I can be a real *** in short bursts. Wish it wasn't so.

I also appreciate you being reserved on the Howland critiques last night. Ado was about the only guy who deserved any kudos in that game (and I had to defend him a bit).
 

mstateglfr

All-American
Feb 24, 2008
17,008
6,835
113
Wanna make a bet who has more wins when both careers are over?

Wanna make a side bet on who will be at which school the longer?

Wanna make a hypothetical bet, that if we could have had Smart 3 years ago, we would have taken him over Howland?

Right now, today, who would you rather have in Starkville, a young fiery, proven coach? Or a coach that was fired from his last job and is pushing 80 years old? Be honest and answer that question.

Howland isnt pushing 80 any more than Calipari is pushing 80.

I have actually kept up with Howland from the days when he was at Pitt and saw in real time the absurd antics that went into Howland and UCLA parting ways.
I dont hold the UCLA ending against him, especially since he left after winning the conference, upped scoring average and pace, and made the tournament.
Bill Walton is a raging dbag fornall he did to get Howland fired.

As for who is at each school longer, i dont know and dont think that it speaks to much at all.
 

Lettucexxxx

All-Conference
Oct 16, 2012
4,562
1,047
113

DAWG61

Redshirt
Feb 26, 2008
10,111
0
0
Tyler Summit. That amount reminded me of this article I read a while back...

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sp...ves-personal-property-tyler-summitt/89317990/

Obviously OT, but this 27 year old player 17er gets $173,520 a year for life because of the way his mother structured her pension payout. How F'd up is that? These government pensions are going to meltdown.

Not sure why this bothers you. His mom is basketball royalty. You can find thousands of examples of people leaving their pensions to their kids.
 

DAWG61

Redshirt
Feb 26, 2008
10,111
0
0
Barnes obviously still possess the fire. Some do, some don't.

Barnes did it right by getting a bunch of under the radar 3* type players with chips on their shoulders from state's with good HS basketball. They are smart players that always work hard cause that's all they know how to do in order to stay on the court. Howland went star searching which landed us a top class but his 3 highest ranked players are all gone now. Now Howland is left scrambling to make up for those guys departing. We are way better than at any point with Rick Ray but we have fallen behind Auburn, Alabama, Tennessee and Mizzou and are near the bottom of the SEC in pecking order in year 3. Howland is going to have to make some tough changes with his assistants and some of the players he recruits moving forward if he wants to keep up with the rest of the SEC.
 

Shamoan

Redshirt
Jun 27, 2013
12,466
0
0
I'm not trying to down the guy. He seems like a genuine person. I will exclude a "but" on that. I do find myself torn on whether we need to go a different direction after next season if the results are similar...I'm really hoping he can recruit his way out, but the talent profile is going up across the sec board and it's time we see a well oiled offense with sound fundamentals, set plays, and a better understanding and execution.

I'm not interested in dumping on the team. I think even the average fan sees what I have been talking about. No need to run it into the ground.
 

She Mate Me

Heisman
Dec 7, 2008
15,449
15,139
113
Not sure why this bothers you. His mom is basketball royalty. You can find thousands of examples of people leaving their pensions to their kids.

Two reasons, one completely illogical, one logical.

Illogical first. I find what he did awful. He spent his entire life around women's college basketball, chose to become a coach and less than 5 years in he is 17ing his own players as a head coach. Pathetic and immoral even if it is legal. Has nothing to do with the pension.

Logical. Considering the fact that almost all public pensions in this country are underfunded, even with a very high stock market, this type of arrangement seems ludicrous. This pension plan will pay out a pension to Tyler for likely 50 to 60 years for 40 or so years of work his MOTHER, not he, did. If he reaches life expectancy he will be getting payments for his mother's work from 1974 to 2012 in 2070. No wonder these plans are broke.
 

Lettucexxxx

All-Conference
Oct 16, 2012
4,562
1,047
113
Two reasons, one completely illogical, one logical.

Illogical first. I find what he did awful. He spent his entire life around women's college basketball, chose to become a coach and less than 5 years in he is 17ing his own players as a head coach. Pathetic and immoral even if it is legal. Has nothing to do with the pension.

Logical. Considering the fact that almost all public pensions in this country are underfunded, even with a very high stock market, this type of arrangement seems ludicrous. This pension plan will pay out a pension to Tyler for likely 50 to 60 years for 40 or so years of work his MOTHER, not he, did. If he reaches life expectancy he will be getting payments for his mother's work from 1974 to 2012 in 2070. No wonder these plans are broke.


bro, take this elsewhere.

You are over cooking your grits.
 

Uncle Ruckus

All-American
Apr 1, 2011
15,501
7,037
113
First, I’ll say I 100% agree with you.
Second, I am surprised this isn’t the most downvotes post ever on here since the majority of people on here confuse Howland with Phil Jackson and will fight you if you disparage him or our teams **** performances. This is a below average team, with what should be well above average talent, yet they look like most of them were signed under Rick Ray. We’ve somehow found ways to regress offensively. You can’t have a season long slump. It’s called 17ing regression.
 

She Mate Me

Heisman
Dec 7, 2008
15,449
15,139
113
Not talking to you in particular, but I think a lot of the Can't Coachers think those of us who defend him are Koolaid drinkers. I see issues and have posted about them plenty. I defend when I see what I consider illogical criticism of one game, or one player. I've watched a lot of MSU basketball. I will let it play out and will probably agree with you down the road if regression becomes very obvious.
 
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