Is there only one rigid unbending path to heaven? Or does each person meet heaven in their own way, as long as the hold Jesus as the guide?
Humility Month…
- Thread starter TroyInception
- Start date
Clearly the practice of homosexuality existed and was quite prevalent in ancient Greece and Rome before Christ's ministry. The notion that Christ didn't address it because he didn't have the term we use is absurd. There are lots of terms for ancient times that are different from today. That is why we have linguists and Biblical scholars. I don't know if every action is to be considered "good" if Christ doesn't specifically forbid it. But, yes, for the amount of energy and obsession so-called Christians put into discussing it and their certainty that LGBTQ are damned to an eternity of hell fire, one would think Jesus would have mentioned it once or twice.
Again, I appreciate your care and concern. All prayers are welcome. I have faith in a loving and merciful God who would never punish people for being what He made them to be.
God created our sexuality for a particular purpose, and that is as an expression of love within marriage ordered towards the procreation of children. And so whether you’re same-sex attracted, whether you’re opposite sex attracted, that rules the same for everybody, that sexual activity belongs inside marriage ordered towards the procreation of children. And so that’s why as Christians we say same-sex sexual activity is wrong, they’re not in accordance with why sex was created and the proper ordering of it.
Herein lies the battleground, this one verse that all men either hate or they rejoice in it. When you decide which is which in your own heart, then you will know your eternal destiny. All the wordsmithing, scripture twisting, and wishful thinking won't change this;
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Unrepentant kidnappers and wife beaters have the same fate, and like I said, He did not mention those sins either.
Roman’s 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
I can see why LGBTQ sometimes feel singled out for their sins because of the politics involved, but it’s really not the case with God. They aren’t going to Hell solely because they’re LGBTQ. It’s because of sin. Even if they weren’t LGBTQ, they’ve still sinned. We all have. We’ve all lied, stolen something (even if it’s small, like a pen), used God’s holy name as a cuss word (JC, OMG, etc), even committed adultery (Matt 5:28). All it takes is one.
The Bible says that “The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). In other words, God is paying us (not just LGBTQ) in death for our sins. It’s like a judge who looks at a man in court whose been convicted of brutally murdering 3 people, has been given the death sentence, and the judge says to him “This is what you’ve earned, it’s what is due to you”.
Sin is so serious to a holy God that he’s given us the death sentence. It’s not an LGBTQ death sentence, it’s ALL of us. Thats the bad news.
The good news is what God did for us, despite us being sinners, and made a way for us (including LGBTQ) to avoid Hell. You and I broke Gods law, Jesus paid our fine on the cross. That’s why He said “It is finished, paid in full” (the Greek word “Tetelesti”) just before He died.
If you are in court with speeding fines, the judge can let you go if someone pays your fines. Even though you are guilty, he can say to you “You’re free to go, your fines have been paid”. So now we can walk out of God’s courtroom, He can lift the death sentence off of us because Jesus paid our fine in full for us. Now all we (including LGBTQ) have to do to receive that gift is to repent of our sins (which means to turn from them) and trust in Jesus.
The problem is that what often what keeps people (including LGBTQ) from turning to God is that they don’t want to give up their sin that they find pleasurable. They don’t want to give up sleeping with their girlfriend/boyfriend, watching pornography, or whatever it may be for them. And they cannot come to God unless they are willing to repent.
So if 2 men or 2 women truly love one another, cherish each other, respect each other, forsake all others for each other, and if so blessed raise children to follow that sort of love, with charity, piety, kindness, concern for all God’s children, God will condemn them to burn in hell for all eternity?
My God wouldn’t do that. Perhaps your God would, and that’s ok, you’re free to worship your diety in your way, and I am free to worship my diety in my way. I start having trouble when you start telling me your God is better than my God. You stay in your lane and I will stay in mine. But there a sect of Christianity who just cannot do that, stay in their lane, they feel incumbent to force their God on everyone, “I’m right, you’re wrong,” and that is a problem, for everyone.
Anyways, that harsh, unbending, vengeful Christianity is dying out, and likely will be extinct in 100 years. The fastest growing segment of folks nowadays is atheism.
My God wouldn’t do that. Perhaps your God would, and that’s ok, you’re free to worship your diety in your way, and I am free to worship my diety in my way. I start having trouble when you start telling me your God is better than my God. You stay in your lane and I will stay in mine. But there a sect of Christianity who just cannot do that, stay in their lane, they feel incumbent to force their God on everyone, “I’m right, you’re wrong,” and that is a problem, for everyone.
Anyways, that harsh, unbending, vengeful Christianity is dying out, and likely will be extinct in 100 years. The fastest growing segment of folks nowadays is atheism.
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So the old saying “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” comes to mind.
And I’d seems a lack of humility to assume what Your God knows and thinks.
“Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother's wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his. So whenever he went in to his brother's wife he would waste the ***** on the ground, so as not to give offspring to his brother. And what he did was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also.”
How has your "god" told you what he would do and wouldn't do?
The One True God has spoken through His Word (the Bible), and that Word is also seen in His Creation, in true science (irreducible complexities), in archaeology, and in the historic record of fulfilled prophecy.
Romans 1:19-22
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Moon, when folks like you create your own god, it is not for us to respond in anyway in defense of the One True God. He doesn't need that from anyone, nor does He call on any of us to do anything more than give an appropriate answer and an explanation as to what He has done for us, and you.
If you think the God of the Bible is terrible, well in a way you are correct. He gave each of us the terrible gift of a "free will". At this point you, the LGBTQ folks, and a host of others are clenching your fists in the presence of His manifestation. That you bow before a god of lust and pride instead is very sad.
I believe that is the point of the OP.
I don’t. And I certainly don’t judge people on sexual orientation.
Putting something out to think about is different than saying what/how He thinks..
not looking for conflict here
None of that is true. There is no “True science” that points to an existence of a God. God must must be taken on faith, and that is beautiful, but faith is all there is. One would be best to keep that faith well, but to him or herself, because all faith is individual.
In contrast to the Old Testament God? Vengeful, easily angered, jealous, punishing, even hateful?
You are missing the point. We go to Hell for unrepentant sin. Those you mention above can absolutely go to Heaven, but it’s not because they are good enough or lived a good enough life. It doesn’t work that way. It’s because God is good and offers it to them as a free gift. But He will not force it on them, and they are free to either receive or reject it.
Who is your God, and how did you come to faith in him?
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Is that really a question you need answered? I do not believe so. Aimee posted her experience in her life, and it was ABSOLUTELY A POST THAT SHOULD HAVE STOOD ON ITS OWN, without comment, but of course thats impossible for folks here, the “One True God, I am right and you are wrong” types.
You want to sit down and jawbone it over a beer, ok, but not here. Too much poison in the air.
So you say. Here is an interesting starting point for you to discover the truth. Irreducible complexities indeed prove that there is a Designer to all things.
An irreducible complexity is an aspect of a living creature that could only exist from the beginning, otherwise said living being could not have survived. Irreducible complexities completely debunk evolution.
Here is just one example; the cardiovascular system of an infant in the womb runs in an oval, but upon birth and within 1-2 minutes changes to a figure eight by the natural permanent opening and closing of valves. Prior, while in the oval configuration, although the blood comes in contact with the mother's, it does not mingle as that would kill the infant and probably the mother as well.
Add this to the complexities of the reproductive system that led to the creation of that child, requiring it to be in place from the beginning of human life, and then...
...multiply that times two (male and female), and you have that which is indeed irreducible. You can do this for every single aspect of the human body. The eye, the wrist, the thumb, the digestive system, you name it.
For those of us who live in Northern Arizona, it is so easy to see the evidence of the global flood just by observing the Grand Canyon and the Grand Staircase. (Incidentally, just in the last couple of years, scientists have changed their view that the Canyon was carved out over millions of years, but now agree that it was a rapid event. Although the Rangers still spout that "long time" stuff).
The Bible contains at least 36 primary scientific principles that weren't "discovered" and identified until centuries later.
So Moon, no you are not correct regarding the evidence of the existence of a Designer and the Bible being a scientific book. As far as "your" comment that the God of the Old Testament is a vengeful, easily angered, jealous, punishing, and hateful is just you repeating what you have been told by the anti God crowd. You certainly haven't studied the Old Testament for yourself, as you certainly do not understand certain events. Nevertheless, what you call unbending is what we call the unchanging nature of a Holy God.
I am always uncomfortable with these discussions because when I interact with a person who has his jaw set, I shudder that when that person is on his face before that Just and Holy God, that his overt words of rejection will be placed before him .... when it is too late to retract them.
I’m not the one to make that judgement. God is and He makes it clear in His word. His way is the right way for all His people. He doesn’t provide multiple paths to heaven.
@SC200SC I'd love to know your background and specifically what you majored in at SC? I don't want to assume theology but in the words of Hova you seem to "...know a little bit"
@DaFireMedic reading your responses have been fascinating. You do not attack or show anger but come across as one coming from a position of love. I have to say quite impressive.
@DaFireMedic reading your responses have been fascinating. You do not attack or show anger but come across as one coming from a position of love. I have to say quite impressive.
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Actually, it is amazing that people have tolerated so much of this garbage so far. We know the wackos in govt want to force it on us and mainstream it, but people do have limits and this is all outside the Constitution and being forced on the unwilling
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Link?
Which is similar to how a bonobo and a chimp heart develop. We share 98.5% of our DNA with chimps and bonobos.
Trying to scientifically prove the existence of a deity is to me a dead end. Religion comes from faith, not science. Our reproductive system isn’t unique, it is quite common in mammalian biology. I want you to cherish your faith and hold it high, I will never tell you anything different. I will hold my faith in the manner in which I see as best in uplifting mankind. I wish you the same.
https://creationministries.org
Knock yourself out.
BTW, you absolutely missed the point. If you believe in no God, and you believe we have evolved through monkeys, then you have to believe we evolved all the way from before that. Nope, that's impossible due to (as I pointed out) irreducible complexity.
So, you do not see the design in creation, that is your dead end. It is the truest thing you have said thus far.
I believe that this thread has run its course, but I want to lay down the inarguable bottom line regarding transgenderism;
The declaration that a male actually is a female (in their minds), or can become a female is completely false on many accounts. However, there is no getting around the fact that NO heterosexual (normal) man would EVER desire or choose a trans as a partner or wife.
The only men that would ever be attracted to a trans would be homosexual. Period.
It is the most destructive, painful lie yet to come out of the homosexual community. It encourages chemical sterilization, mutilation, and this encouragement comes in a high pressure package.
Worse yet, as difficult as homosexuality can be on parents, transgenderism is devastating. These are facts, not opinions.
This is why I feel for Aimee. I know others personally in their position. They demand, even through tears that others not only accept this perversion, but that we Christians must set aside our beliefs in God and accept the heretical teachings of the "gay friendly" churches.
That is a line in the sand that we will not cross.
The declaration that a male actually is a female (in their minds), or can become a female is completely false on many accounts. However, there is no getting around the fact that NO heterosexual (normal) man would EVER desire or choose a trans as a partner or wife.
The only men that would ever be attracted to a trans would be homosexual. Period.
It is the most destructive, painful lie yet to come out of the homosexual community. It encourages chemical sterilization, mutilation, and this encouragement comes in a high pressure package.
Worse yet, as difficult as homosexuality can be on parents, transgenderism is devastating. These are facts, not opinions.
This is why I feel for Aimee. I know others personally in their position. They demand, even through tears that others not only accept this perversion, but that we Christians must set aside our beliefs in God and accept the heretical teachings of the "gay friendly" churches.
That is a line in the sand that we will not cross.
I like you Moon. We agree on a great many things and there is no reason this has to trend toward anger. You said (at least twice) that you had a God, and I was just asking who it was since it didn’t appear to be the God of the Bible. And I asked that because I am genuinely interested in what you believe. Regarding Aimee’s post, I put a like on it because I saw it as heartfelt, and responded with my own experiences, as there were things in Aimee’s post relevant to my own situation. And you did ask me a question about my beliefs.
A very wise approach. God bless you and your family.
Ok,fair enough.
I look around my world, and I look at where the evil comes from. As a Catholic, i know very well that some of the evil comes directly from Catholic “leadership” and I am unrelentingly harsh and unforgiving concerning the damage priests have done to innocents. Trust me.
But at the parish level I just see good. Food banks for the poor, visitations for shut ins (of which i participate), help for the elderly, guidance for young people, I mostly see good. At that level, that is where I see and feel God. I do not see a God with a human personality, with the weaknesses and flaws that come with personality. I look around and see the good common people for their fellow man, And that is the place where God lives for me.
Getting to specifics, I just don’t see gay snd lesbian people as anything more than God’s people. They have the same good and bad in them as all else. If they love one another with their hearts, that is all I can ask. I don’t understand their sexual attraction, I do not get it at all, but I don’t have to, as long as they love one another and their neighbor. Honestly, in this world, what more can we ask for?
Edit: The level of violence men show to other
men nowadays is horrific. Hour after hour, day after day, week after week men are choosing to KILL one another , other men, mostly with guns. At a time when food scarcity is gone, and survival are almost assured, relative to even 200 years ago, when life truly was harsh, never has man hated his neighbor as he does today. I cannot make sense of it. I do know that what couples do with one another in bed seems trivial.
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Thank you for starting one of the best threads I’ve seen in over 20 years on a wide variety of message boards. Very thought provoking. Well done.
My turning point was when I was 17. I should have died but I believe God graciously spared my life. I’m 69 now. I admit I’m not always humble but I try to be a positive influence on everyone I meet.
Despite some of the views I’ve expressed on political threads regarding LGBTQ policies, laws, celebrations, etc., I agree with you.
God loves them as much as He loves you and I, and I want to see them in heaven with me. Sin separates us from God, and my sin is no better or worse than their sin. But Jesus died as the final sacrifice for our sins and paid our debt in full, and we must trust in His atoning work and not in ANYTHING that we have done to receive His free gift of everlasting life in Heaven. God paid a heavy price to make a way, and said that there is no other way.
God does call us to love one another and our neighbors (even to love our enemies), do good, etc. He said that is evidence of our faith. But that cannot save us, nor can obedience to His laws. Personally, I’m thankful for His way, as there’s no way that I can ever be perfect in obedience. None of us can.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast”. Ephesians 2:8,9
Nor can I, other than we live in a fallen world. It never ceases to shock me the things people are capable of doing to one another.
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I hope you find this helpful….
8 Modern Errors Every Catholic Should Know and Avoid
Consider this eightfold list of modern errors that are common even in the Church.
www.ncregister.com
God Bless You.
I thought I was finished commenting here, but I have to compliment and thank you Troyinception, for a very thought provoking link that speaks to both Catholics and Evangelicals.I hope you find this helpful….
8 Modern Errors Every Catholic Should Know and Avoid
Consider this eightfold list of modern errors that are common even in the Church.
God Bless You.
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NOW you’re typing as if you are, (speaking as if you are) and pretending to be a…
CHRISTAIN????
ROTHGLMAO!!!!
SILLY rabbit… we know, ALL liberal democrats, are going to HELL.
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Yeah…
NEVER in your entire Family tree, is there EVEN one…
and…
in this current generation, she (white liberal democrat) has THREE.
Yeah, mentally ill ”brave.”
NEVER in your entire Family tree, is there EVEN one…
and…
in this current generation, she (white liberal democrat) has THREE.
Yeah, mentally ill ”brave.”
The topic of this thread was humility. This is not humility. It’s sinful pride, as if you know enough to judge. I, for one, do NOT know that all liberal democrats are going to hell. That is God’s judgement alone to make, and anyone who tries in His place is in danger themselves. Your post is in poor taste given the topic of the OP, and is part of why one poster called this sort of discussion poison in the air. Please help us to keep a touchy subject as religion at least civil. And if you are a Christian, comport yourself in such a way as to be a better witness to others of Christ’s humility and compassion. Thank you!
