Hypothetical finish

[Wunky]

I’m curious if there’s a consensus on what finish to the season will satisfy a majority of the fans. And I’m not talking within the context of injuries, or how the season started. I’m saying, given the expectations before the season, what finish would satisfy you?

For me it’s Elite 8. Anything less is a disappointment, with one caveat: if we win the SEC regular season or tournament, and finish Sweet 16 again, then I will consider it progress… but still hope and pray that Pope learned some lessons going into the offseason.

 

[anon1777473514]

I think it depends on what satisfy means to each person. For me, I’d consider a Sweet 16 to be good enough, given the injuries, to not be a “bad” year but certainly not a “good” year. I wouldn’t walk away from that with the view that Pope has confirmed his own status as “the guy” long term. It would just be average. An elite eight would be enough for me to feel safe in his hands for several years. I’ve always felt that Elite Eight is where I draw the line for a successful year because anything can and will happen from there — you’re usually playing the most elite of teams by that point. I need an Elite Eight this year or next to be certain Pope is the guy here long-term.

 

[jedwar]

As we stand now, S16 is pretty lofty and I'd be ok with that. I don't see us winning the SEC regular season with our schedule and winning the SECT is a very tall task for this group.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Nothing is going to satisfy me but sec regular season, sec tournament, final four or national title. Anything less just continues the apathy of UK basketball.

I'm not gonna be upset if we don't do any of the above as I have 0 expectations pope and the team can accomplish them. He will get another year to try to win something that matters n 2026-2027.

 

[Johnnie Africa]

I’d be very happy with s16 this year all things considered. Next year we need at least E8 and top 3 SEC finish

 

[TFCat11]

I’ve already resigned to the fact that this season is just going to be a one way bridge to next season, which should make the “Pope deserves a 3rd season” folks giddy AF, so i’ll take whatever Pope and the team can give us at this point. Throwing around some math equations, I figure Pope has about a 20% chance to make a S16 again…

However, next season, there’s no more of this doing enough just to get by! He needs a STRONG showing in the portal, stay in the top 12 all season long, grab a SEC Conference Championship, and or SECT Championship, and a minimum of a very strong outing in the E8!

If he has ANYTHING close to the beginning of this season, he needs to be shown the door, and let Brooks finish out the season as the interim HC.

Oh, and before I forget, he’s going to have to raise his recruiting game to the level of Duke, KU, UNC, and the rest… Period, no BS!

 

[anon1777473514]

Oh, and before I forget, he’s going to have to raise his recruiting game to the level of Duke, KU, UNC, and the rest… Period, no BS!

Pope is simply not as good of a recruiter as Bill Self or Jon Scheyer. I thought your post was mostly pretty reasonable but this part right here has you set up to be disappointed. I think expecting Pope to recruit as good or better than Hubert Davis is sensible — he has so far and will likely continue to. Those other names are among the pinnacle of the sport in that one aspect and there isn’t anyone we can add of that magnitude. Just being honest.

(Maybe you could argue Jai Lucas somewhere down the road. He could develop into that.)

 

[moses1uk]

with no PG if Pope can get to the sweet 16 it will be a unbelievable story

 

[UKCowboys]

Nothing is going to satisfy me but sec regular season, sec tournament, final four or national title. Anything less just continues the apathy of UK basketball.

I'm not gonna be upset if we don't do any of the above as I have 0 expectations pope and the team can accomplish them. He will get another year to try to win something that matters n 2026-2027.

Then build a program that can do that. Cal intentionally sabotaged the program. He left it late and took everything but the kitchen sink off the roster. We had NO PLAYERS on the team. I'm sorry man, you can't start from scratch and throw a checkbook at it and expect to achieve those goals or claim "apathy for UK basketball" a year and a half into the rebuild.
The SEC is tougher than it ever has been. Rick never faced this level of competition, neither did Cal and Joe B. Sure as Hell didn't. There also wasn't NIL, JMI, and across the board TV exposure at every school which has leveled the playing field. Considering what he started with and then the injuries he has overcome, our coach hasn't done a good job, he has done an amazing job. That's reality my man.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

Nothing is going to satisfy me but sec regular season, sec tournament, final four or national title. Anything less just continues the apathy of UK basketball.

I'm not gonna be upset if we don't do any of the above as I have 0 expectations pope and the team can accomplish them. He will get another year to try to win something that matters n 2026-2027.

I’m pretty much with you on that. I have no expectations for this team. So anything they do will just have to be satisfactory.

I’m certain Pope is getting another year. If not more.

So just live with it.

 

[Snarks]

At the beginning of the year it was a final four. Now it’s a strong finish and a sweet 16. Regardless, he’s got 1 more year to prove he can do something special. If he doesn’t win the SEC, the SEC tourney, or make a big tournament run he needs to go.

 

[NociHTTP]

Pope is simply not as good of a recruiter as Bill Self or Jon Scheyer. I thought your post was mostly pretty reasonable but this part right here has you set up to be disappointed. I think expecting Pope to recruit as good or better than Hubert Davis is sensible — he has so far and will likely continue to. Those other names are among the pinnacle of the sport in that one aspect and there isn’t anyone we can add of that magnitude. Just being honest.

(Maybe you could argue Jai Lucas somewhere down the road. He could develop into that.)

When it comes to recruiting, people tend to fall into the "how highly ranked are YOUR players?" trap. It is difficult to build continuity with a constantly revolving door. Pope is not chasing star ratings unlike the previous coach. He's looking for fit, and not just by position name.

 

[NociHTTP]

At the beginning of the year it was a final four. Now it’s a strong finish and a sweet 16. Regardless, he’s got 1 more year to prove he can do something special. If he doesn’t win the SEC, the SEC tourney, or make a big tournament run he needs to go.

 

[ukcats012]

I'm not a fan of judging the entire reason based on the results of a single elimination tournament. NC State made the Final Four two years ago, but they didn't have a good season, it didn't save their coach, and it didn't do anything to improve the trajectory of their program.

Since we haven't had to play "will he play, won't he play" with our team we're 7-1. That's pretty good even if the schedule was easier. I'm much more concerned with how we finish up the season as a whole than how far we get in the tournament. I think going something like 6-2 to close out the season and losing in the second round is an objectively better performance than going 3-5 and making the Elite 8. Yeah, the second is more fun when it happens, but it doesn't really prove Pope or the team was doing a better job, it just means they got a bit lucky with a tournament run.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

When it comes to recruiting, people tend to fall into the "how highly ranked are YOUR players?" trap. It is difficult to build continuity with a constantly revolving door. Pope is not chasing star ratings unlike the previous coach. He's looking for fit, and not just by position name.

THIS! Hilarious some fans want most of our current guys to go “somewhere else”. NO, you want to bring back every single piece you possibly can. Continuity matters, a lot! That’s gonna be the key to this whole NIL/transfer portal craziness. You have to recruit your current players to come back and build on the season prior.

 

[ukcats012]

THIS! Hilarious some fans want most of our current guys to go “somewhere else”. NO, you want to bring back every single piece you possibly can. Continuity matters, a lot! That’s gonna be the key to this whole NIL/transfer portal craziness. You have to recruit your current players to come back and build on the season prior.

I amount of people who seemed to want Garrison to leave at the end of last year and the beginning of this year was maddening to me. I get he can be frustratingly inconsistent, but when he puts it all together he can be a star, like we saw last game. I would love to have him back and see if he can blossom into that full time next year. Pope's offense requires a lot timing and precision and reading the floor from the 5, and that takes time to learn and get good at. Amari was able to be great at that very quickly, but if it takes Garrison a few years so be it.

Too many got too used to players being immediately impactful and if they weren't casting them off as a bust. And at the same time people complained about how we didn't have continuity for the last 15 years and how they missed seeing guys grow up within the system and blossom as upperclassmen. You can't really have it both ways because no one talented enough to have lottery pick type impact is sticking around long term at any program.

One of my favorite moments of the Cal era was seeing Liggins make the Final Four and get a big hug from Cal at the end of the UNC Elite 8 game. That was rewarding as a fan because he had been maligned for not meeting his potential and for his attitude at times. But he stuck through the crap BCG years, kept his head down, and was a key piece for a Final Four team. That was awesome. I kind of see the same in Garrison, and if he comes back and is successful at a high level next year it'll just be cool to see. I want to roll that dice rather than bring someone in who has been on four teams in four years.

 

[UKGrad24]

As we stand now, S16 is pretty lofty and I'd be ok with that. I don't see us winning the SEC regular season with our schedule and winning the SECT is a very tall task for this group.

Pretty much. I’d take a sweet 16. There isn’t a chance in hell this group is winning the SEC unless they turn into something different then they’ve shown thus far.

 

[davtay]

I amount of people who seemed to want Garrison to leave at the end of last year and the beginning of this year was maddening to me. I get he can be frustratingly inconsistent, but when he puts it all together he can be a star, like we saw last game. I would love to have him back and see if he can blossom into that full time next year. Pope's offense requires a lot timing and precision and reading the floor from the 5, and that takes time to learn and get good at. Amari was able to be great at that very quickly, but if it takes Garrison a few years so be it.

Too many got too used to players being immediately impactful and if they weren't casting them off as a bust. And at the same time people complained about how we didn't have continuity for the last 15 years and how they missed seeing guys grow up within the system and blossom as upperclassmen. You can't really have it both ways because no one talented enough to have lottery pick type impact is sticking around long term at any program.

One of my favorite moments of the Cal era was seeing Liggins make the Final Four and get a big hug from Cal at the end of the UNC Elite 8 game. That was rewarding as fan because he had been maligned for not meeting his potential and for his attitude at times. But he stuck through the crap BCG years, kept his head down, and was a key piece for a Final Four team. That was awesome. I kind of see the same in Garrison, and if he comes back and is successful at a high level next year it'll just be cool to see. I want to roll that dice rather than bring someone in who has been on four teams in four years.

This is an absolutely great post! I 100% agree!

 

[UKGrad24]

Nothing is going to satisfy me but sec regular season, sec tournament, final four or national title. Anything less just continues the apathy of UK basketball.

I'm not gonna be upset if we don't do any of the above as I have 0 expectations pope and the team can accomplish them. He will get another year to try to win something that matters n 2026-2027.

People laugh at this but it’s true. We are in serious droughts and Pope was brought in to win and fix the messes of Calipari immediately. He was brought in to win now. He wasn’t brought in to “be Hurley” and suck for 4 years then hit lightening in a bottle “maybe”.

We need to win now. He’s got next season to get us where we need to be or it’s time to discuss bringing in a real qualified Kentucky caliber guy.

 

[UKGrad24]

I’ve already resigned to the fact that this season is just going to be a one way bridge to next season, which should make the “Pope deserves a 3rd season” folks giddy AF, so i’ll take whatever Pope and the team can give us at this point. Throwing around some math equations, I figure Pope has about a 20% chance to make a S16 again…

However, next season, there’s no more of this doing enough just to get by! He needs a STRONG showing in the portal, stay in the top 12 all season long, grab a SEC Conference Championship, and or SECT Championship, and a minimum of a very strong outing in the E8!

If he has ANYTHING close to the beginning of this season, he needs to be shown the door, and let Brooks finish out the season as the interim HC.

Oh, and before I forget, he’s going to have to raise his recruiting game to the level of Duke, KU, UNC, and the rest… Period, no BS!

. There’s no way he can raise his recruiting to those levels. It’s not going to happen it’s not who he is.

 

[UKGrad24]

Pope is simply not as good of a recruiter as Bill Self or Jon Scheyer. I thought your post was mostly pretty reasonable but this part right here has you set up to be disappointed. I think expecting Pope to recruit as good or better than Hubert Davis is sensible — he has so far and will likely continue to. Those other names are among the pinnacle of the sport in that one aspect and there isn’t anyone we can add of that magnitude. Just being honest.

(Maybe you could argue Jai Lucas somewhere down the road. He could develop into that.)

If he can’t recruit to the level of a blue blood then he doesn’t need to be at a blue blood. Mark needs to adjust and figure out how to land players. You don’t star chase like Calipari and throw darts at a top 25 list, but you need a mix of talent and skills and recruiting top kids is part of that. If you can’t do it then you’re a dead man walking.

 

[davtay]

People laugh at this but it’s true. We are in serious droughts and Pope was brought in to win and fix the messes of Calipari immediately. He was brought in to win now. He wasn’t brought in to “be Hurley” and suck for 4 years then hit lightening in a bottle “maybe”.

We need to win now. He’s got next season to get us where we need to be or it’s time to discuss bringing in a real qualified Kentucky caliber guy.

To be honest, he was brought in to build a roster with 0 players and to win games. Not immediately. But guess what? The first year, he did exactly that, and barring numerous unfortunate injuries, may have went further than they did. But with that roster being mostly seniors, rebuild once again. This time, with players who hopefully return to build a core roster. Hasn't been quite the success hoped for, but season still isn't over. A season and a half, is not going to rebuild a program that using your terminology Morg, "Cal will burn to the ground when he leaves". It will take time and a little patience. I l know "NIL", but everyone has NIL, UK has to compete with others. The name only, can no longer just be the drawing card.

What hasn't happened, is he has "sucked." Maybe disappointing, but far from sucks. But, you are consistent in the drum that you bang.

 

[Rainmaker]

I’m curious if there’s a consensus on what finish to the season will satisfy a majority of the fans. And I’m not talking within the context of injuries, or how the season started. I’m saying, given the expectations before the season, what finish would satisfy you?

For me it’s Elite 8. Anything less is a disappointment, with one caveat: if we win the SEC regular season or tournament, and finish Sweet 16 again, then I will consider it progress… but still hope and pray that Pope learned some lessons going into the offseason.

If we make an elite 8 with this team, the way the season started, the injuries and all that would be an exceptional season IMO. There are several keys to this teams season moving forward:

Chandler continuing to play with confidence, and playing hard nose D.

Garrison being able to play 15-20 minutes a game and continue to show improvement. (I don’t expect him to put up a double double but just to not hurt us when in)

Aberdeen continuing to buy into the role of PG and facilitator. Not trying to be “the man” but play within his ability, shoot when open, drive to the lane but don’t force it and kick it out of need be.

JJ has to give us a quality 15 minutes a game. Not playing “hero” ball or AAU style but playing under control. He can beat his man to the spot more often than not but he tends to force up a low percentage shot instead of finding the open man. If he focuses on assist later first and scoring second that’d be huge for us.

MoD has to be the garbage man. Continue to play hard on D and on offense stop trying to force it on the post catch. If it’s not there it’s not there, he should score his 10 a game on put backs and dump offs from the guards. If he can stop trying to create his own 1 on 1 and buy into the garbage man role he is an excellent player.

Oweh, Moreno, Jelavic keep doing what they do. Oweh needs to be 100% focused at all times and anything we get positive from Noah is just a bonus. Buy into their roles and execute and we could be an elite 8 team. ALOT of “ifs” involved in that and if certain players try to force the issue and stray too far outside their role and we lose first weekend. This year above all it’s going to be about the draws we get in the tournament, definitely a few teams id like to avoid. We will win or lose based on our shooting come tournament time. I’m proud of the progress we’ve shown this season either way but I want to get back to being the cream of the crop.

 

[Runt#1969]

Getting another sweet sixteen after going thru this year, and it looking like a repeat season to last year - because of the injuries.... just getting to the sweet sixteen at this point, considering everything that has happened .... ???

I would be grateful to see that happen again this year.

it would be a small miracle. Coach Pope throws his heart and soul into this and is coaching his *** off, really, trying to hold it together. He is a long way from that point. I admire him for persevering.

(and I wouldn't be surprised to see them maybe do better, I would not be shocked, they are better than how they play, even with the roster we go out there with. They are capable, but they just all havent put it really together yet ).

Let's give the Vols our best shot tonight.

Wake some people up.

Go Big Blue !

 

[UKGrad24]

To be honest, he was brought in to build a roster with 0 players and to win games. Not immediately. But guess what? The first year, he did exactly that, and barring numerous unfortunate injuries, may have went further than they did. But with that roster being mostly seniors, rebuild once again. This time, with players who hopefully return to build a core roster. Hasn't been quite the success hoped for, but season still isn't over. A season and a half, is not going to rebuild a program that using your terminology Morg, "Cal will burn to the ground when he leaves". It will take time and a little patience. I l know "NIL", but everyone has NIL, UK has to compete with others. The name only, can no longer just be the drawing card.

What hasn't happened, is he has "sucked." Maybe disappointing, but far from sucks. But, you are consistent in the drum that you bang.

I can agree with some of this. But a lot of my response would just be the same things I’ve said.

End of the day if he wins the Kentucky way then he can stay. If he doesn’t he won’t. Nobody should lower the bar because they like him and just yesterday someone said they don’t care about the all time wins. Setting up excuses and diminishing the place to give him cover is something I’m not doing.

I don’t think he can do it, but if he does find a way to appease Barnhart and make final fours and win Championships, then I’d want him here 25 years. It’s important that Kentucky cement our modern goat because we really haven’t yet. Calipari and Pitino both left it laying on the table. I’m ready to find that guy. Now I don’t think it’s Mark, history says it’s not. Current trajectory with recruiting says it’s not. And his methods behind the scenes giving into what Mitch wants all the time says it won’t.

But if he does then do it and nothing would make me happier than a former player, a 90’s player, being the guy. I just think all of the evidence says it’s not going to happen.

 

[MichaelGray]

Then build a program that can do that. Cal intentionally sabotaged the program. He left it late and took everything but the kitchen sink off the roster. We had NO PLAYERS on the team. I'm sorry man, you can't start from scratch and throw a checkbook at it and expect to achieve those goals or claim "apathy for UK basketball" a year and a half into the rebuild.
The SEC is tougher than it ever has been. Rick never faced this level of competition, neither did Cal and Joe B. Sure as Hell didn't. There also wasn't NIL, JMI, and across the board TV exposure at every school which has leveled the playing field. Considering what he started with and then the injuries he has overcome, our coach hasn't done a good job, he has done an amazing job. That's reality my man.

You nailed it, spot on. Pope is at the toughest place to coach in all of college basketball, the league is tougher than ever with athletes being paid & everything is balanced now, so much parity, none of those coaches had it this tough. Pope is only gonna get better Imo & all it's gonna take in recruiting is that one big commitment & then everything will fall into place. I feel like we're gonna get some really good players in the portal also, skilled players that can shoot.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Never said my apathy started with Pope. The pope dynasty defenders are in such a rush to defend Pope at every turn they forget the last 4 seasons of Cal sucked. My apathy started probably even before 2021. Pope and company are just keeping it going. Hopefully he turns it around.

 

[Wunky]

Almost all of the responses thus far have ignored the rules of the OP.

Forget the injuries. One could reasonably argue that it was inexcusable of Pope to not have a backup PG on the roster, and they could also argue that JQ never should have been recruited due to his ACL. So leave the injuries out of this.

The question was, based on the expectations you had GOING INTO THE SEASON, what finish would you be happy with? Again, my answer is measurable progress.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

To be honest, he was brought in to build a roster with 0 players and to win games. Not immediately. But guess what? The first year, he did exactly that, and barring numerous unfortunate injuries, may have went further than they did. But with that roster being mostly seniors, rebuild once again. This time, with players who hopefully return to build a core roster. Hasn't been quite the success hoped for, but season still isn't over. A season and a half, is not going to rebuild a program that using your terminology Morg, "Cal will burn to the ground when he leaves". It will take time and a little patience. I l know "NIL", but everyone has NIL, UK has to compete with others. The name only, can no longer just be the drawing card.

What hasn't happened, is he has "sucked." Maybe disappointing, but far from sucks. But, you are consistent in the drum that you bang.

He is an idiot, regardless of what name he uses

 

[KyKevin]

I'm with Wunky Elite 8

 

[whack0001]

Nothing is going to satisfy me but sec regular season, sec tournament, final four or national title. Anything less just continues the apathy of UK basketball.

I'm not gonna be upset if we don't do any of the above as I have 0 expectations pope and the team can accomplish them. He will get another year to try to win something that matters n 2026-2027.

I agree with this 100%. We’re in a serious drought. At some point you have to shut up and win something.

 

[Ukwazoo3]

Sweet 16 is bare minimum, after last year. Final 4 was the hope before the season. Still should make the sweet 16, though. And improve next year.

 

[cornbreadnmilk]

When it comes to recruiting, people tend to fall into the "how highly ranked are YOUR players?" trap. It is difficult to build continuity with a constantly revolving door. Pope is not chasing star ratings unlike the previous coach. He's looking for fit, and not just by position name.

Pope actually is chasing the 5 stars but they aren't interested.

 

[NociHTTP]

Pope actually is chasing the 5 stars but they aren't interested.

Not nearly to the extent that you think, or wish. He's looking for fit.

 

[CrimsonCats_rivals]

When it comes to recruiting, people tend to fall into the "how highly ranked are YOUR players?" trap. It is difficult to build continuity with a constantly revolving door. Pope is not chasing star ratings unlike the previous coach. He's looking for fit, and not just by position name.

I wish I was a little more confident that this is actually what’s happening with recruiting. Prioritizing fit over rankings can definitely be a valid strategy in recruiting. So far though, it gives off the appearance that we’re pursuing all the highly ranked players and signing backup plans after striking out on all of them rather than than strategically prioritizing lower ranked players who fit a specific vision. We don’t even have a single commit for next year at this point. I’m not all in on wanting to fire Pope right now, but I think recruiting is a valid concern.

 

[NociHTTP]

I wish I was a little more confident that this is actually what’s happening with recruiting. Prioritizing fit over rankings can definitely be a valid strategy in recruiting. So far though, it gives off the appearance that we’re pursuing all the highly ranked players and signing backup plans after striking out on all of them rather than than strategically prioritizing lower ranked players who fit a specific vision. We don’t even have a single commit for next year at this point. I’m not all in on wanting to fire Pope right now, but I think recruiting is a valid concern.

We don't really know what Pope has in store. That's what we really know. How about we let Pope work his magic?

 

[RobBase]

Right now, Ill be happy to make tournament... still now sure we make it... hopefully, somehow, we can go .500 to end season..