hypothetical on football stadium expansion possibilities...

[windcrysmary]

what if we were to repeat or do better this season and mullen decides to stay and solidify things in Vegas, recruiting ends up strong and the fan base grows an extra inch of wool on an already shabby herd of sheep...

wouldn't adding an extra 7,000 be light for that scenario? from what I remember reading, there was some type of 10-12 year plan to get to 70k or so?

that just seems overly conservative to me if things continue in a positive direction... does waiting 10 years to catch up to KY circa 2010 seem to be a worthwile goal?

what say the Pack?

 

[windcrysmary]

what if we were to repeat or do better this season and mullen decides to stay and solidify things in Vegas, recruiting ends up strong and the fan base grows an extra inch of wool on an already shabby herd of sheep...

wouldn't adding an extra 7,000 be light for that scenario? from what I remember reading, there was some type of 10-12 year plan to get to 70k or so?

that just seems overly conservative to me if things continue in a positive direction... does waiting 10 years to catch up to KY circa 2010 seem to be a worthwile goal?

what say the Pack?

 

[thatsbaseball]

people will actually prefer end zone seats to our nose bleed upper decks.

 

[AssEndDawg]

...and mullen decides to stay and solidify things in Vegas....

Thanks to the fat contract and the football only facility Mullen isn't going anywhere after this year. We have at least two with him before we need to start worrying again. As for the expansion, they are planning it for more growth and treating this as a first phase. I agree with what you are saying, but we don't know what is going to happen and ending up with a mostly empty 70,000 seat stadium and a ton of debt would be kinda stupid.

 

[catvet]

who knew that they would not get season tickets, so they did not get on the waiting list. I know that money is the issue, but we should get to 70,000 as soon as possible due to the low cost of construction at this time. People will make the argument that if we go back to the lean years, we would have a half empty stadium, but that is not the point. We are going to need the capacity in the next ten years and the time is now.

 

[slowpoke3]

Before I was a student, I sat on the east side upper decks. I haven't seen any advantage to watching the game from theend zone... You can't hear the jumbotron and you can't tell what's going on in the game as well. I personally would prefer theskydeckany day of the week... the east side anyway.

 

[SectionG]

But I think expansion should be based on ticket sales. I know we had a waiting list for this season, I don't know the number but I doubt it was/is big enough to require a 7,000 expansion. Also, campus enrollment is a factor. If we get to 25k students on campus it would be a must at that point.

 

[Columbus Dawg]

We do need to bowl in the endzone as soon as we have the funds.But a packed house every gamewith 60 to 62 thousand fans is plenty big. There's nothing worse than empty seats. </p>

 

[Goat 4 Eva]

If people want luxury boxes, well I guess that's OK too. But we need to get this stadium looking like a big boy stadium soon. We don't need a 90,000 seat facility. But we need it to have that 'look'. Ole Miss's has the 'look' even though it only seats a tad more than ours does. They look like an SEC facility on TV. Ours looks like some high school ****.<div>
</div><div>Damn I still want to ring the neck of whoever decided to build up instead of around. Skyboxes are fine, but why the extreme upper decks?</div>

 

[thatsbaseball]

to sell just fine ....especially the first 25-30 rows. Just watch.

 

[buddawg]

the day after the egg bowl. We where 25 years behind the Bamas and Floridas of the SEC when Doc dropped the hammer. We are alot closer now. Who would have thought we would have come this far in this short of time. I know what The Ninja would do.

 

[SectionG]

WE HAVE A ****** STADIUM DESIGN. There we all know it now. But there is nothing we can do about it. Just to add seats to make our stadium appear as a "big boy stadium" on tv is asinine.

To shed my wool here for a second,but we as a team don't exactly play like a big boy team on tv that often either.

We need to worry about filling up the stadium we got for ALL games, not just the ones on ESPN. The Alcorn State game last season was pathetic, as will be the La Tech and Tennessee State games this year.

 

[SlickRick662.sixpack]

of when the endzone expansionmight begin, also for one season there would be no endzone seating?

 

[thatsbaseball]

well better have a "big boy stadium" and right now we don`t.

 

[drt7891]

seat parallel to the field over an endzone seat any day of the week. That's just me. <div>
</div><div>*Edit- And I agree with what someone else said... the "build it, they will come" mentality is what hurt the LT era with what we have now. We added too many seats and there is nothing worse than a stadium with thousands of empty seats. Think about it... that expansion was finished in 2003 and it didn't sell out until 2007... then it didn't sell out AGAIN until 2009. If I were a business investor, I'd want a little more consistent trend than that. I know we sold out this year (and most of last year), but it's only one year. There were more games between 2003 and 2008 that wouldn't fill up the stadium before the 03 expansion (the spring game this year was a good example of what that kind of game would look like..). Don't bust the bank for 10K seats... add an extra 5-7K (unless you have sufficient research that shows we need more). </div><div>
</div><div>If it were me, I'd invest more money into making the stadium look like an SEC stadium instead of just building more seats (building facades, making the entrances look nicer, work to make the east and west sidessymmetrical... etc.).</div><div>
</div>

 

[maroonmadman]

Here's the current seating below. I would imagine, that when we bowl in the north endzone a majority of those seats will go to students. I would remove the students from sections R, Q, 701 and 702 and place them in the endzone. I would concentrate all the students to maximize their hell raising abilities.Then the GOOD seats in sec. R & Q could go to BDC members. I would then consider placing some ofour opponents in the curve of the new endzone - new sections H & I -and split the rest of those mf-ers to the 4 corners of the upper levels, divide and conquer approachI call it. Then good chunks of seats between the 20 yd. lines or soin the upper levels open up forBDC and mini pack folks. I've been sitting in sec. 307 chairbacks for 8 yrs. now and they're good seat, especially with the new Dawgzillatron. I have no problem seeing anything on the field. Our pissers work fine and our cups don't stink,the only problem is after the walk up I need a good smoke.

 

[FlabLoser]

Look at our attendance numbers over the years and note where the expansions are. We've proven that "build it and they will come". We have shown that don't have to host N people to justify building N+1 seats.

 

[drt7891]

They have gone up and rightfully so. I just don't think building a ****-ton of seats in the endzone is just going to "fill itself up." I do think that the expansion is coming sooner rather than later, but let's face it... we aren't Bama. We don't have 100,000 on a waiting list waiting for their shot at a ticket. I'm not even saying we aren't due for an expansion of some sort, but you only have to look back at the last regime and expansion to see where the thought of "if you build it, they will come" just doesn't work. So long as Mullen and Scott are tag-teaming, our attendance will be up... but that doesnt' mean we should through up 10 or 12K seats in the endzone and expect they will just "fill themselves up."

 

[SectionG]

Nm

 

[FlabLoser]

you only have to look back at the last regime and expansion to see where the thought of "if you build it, they will come" just doesn't work.

Really? We didn't sell out the place formally known as Scott Field before the Davis Wade expansion came along. But as soon as it got there - BOOM, we sold a lot more seats than what would have fit in the old stadium. Even during the first few years of the craptastic Croom error, the worst in MSU football history.

There is nothing to indicate we are anywhere near saturated on football seating.

Build it.

 

[GloryDawg]

It is very simular to Miss States. I think it is a little longer but not that much different.

If they can go from that to this

That means our Stadium Design is not that ******. We will never be where Alabama is but we can get to the drawings I have seen of our expansion. As far as fan base grow, it will naturally grow as well. The school is growing every year that means more Alumni and with the average age of life growing, the fan base will naturally grow.</p>

 

[drt7891]

Ok, to show my point that "build it, they will come" doesn't work, Let's look at the numbers. For reference... Here is the old stadium capacity roughly 43,000 (including the temporary endzone bleachers). Now, it is 55,082.<div>
</div><div>2003 average attendance (because there are no ind. game statistics)- 47,667 between 6 home games. Nearly 7,500 empty seats on average (the new upper deck is 7,000)</div><div>2004 average attendance... let's remember this is the first year of a new coach- 43,792... less than 1,000 more than the old stadium seated. On average, more than 10,000 empty seats. 7 home games.</div><div>
</div><div>Between 2005 and 2008, 6 games... only 6 ever broke the 50,000 plateau in attendance and only 1 sold out (Bama in '07). Second closest was Ole Miss in 05 with roughly 53,000.</div><div>Between 2005 and 2008, 12 games would not have filled the old stadium (less than 43,000 in attendance). Hell, one game had only 38,137 there. NEARLY 17,000 EMPTY SEATS and less than this year's SPRING GAME!! That would have 4,863 empty seats without the '03 expansion.For reference, the west side upper deck seats 5,500.</div><div>
</div><div>Ok, so we sold more seats, but what is the point of adding a **** ton of seats for most of them to stay empty? </div><div>
</div><div>Ole Miss has gone through the same troubles with their attendance after bowling in their endzone. I would imagine only a few games have sold out completely since it was built. Of course, they have a flawed system for counting attendees, but that's neither here nor there.</div><div>
</div><div>Yes, simply "building it" will bring more attendees, but as a business, I want to know every seat possible will generate revenue and not just be "more seats for people to sit in," especially if I'm spending millions of dollars. I'm sure Stricklin will handle this expansion better and will have plenty of research to justify the numbers they add to it, but to show my point, simply "build it, and they will come" doesn't work. Yes, attendance is obviously up and yes, we have a waiting list, but how much of one? My guess, a couple of thousand. Why would you throw up 10,000 more seats for 5 or 6K to be empty most games? Especially on tv, that looks like ****. </div>

 

[elmsurfer1]

[No message]

 

[drt7891]

nm

 

[The Peeper]

air conditioning, tables, chairs, etc in concession area. You can really see the play unfold from that elevation and the dawgtron sounds great there. Rest rooms are much better than those downstairs and you get in and out in no time. The only negative I see is its hard to walk past the lines at concession stands (same as everywhere else) and the walk up. I wait till the last minute though and usually have no problem getting in and my seats are #1-4 so I don't have to crawl all over people and make them spill their football waters.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

They have gone up and rightfully so. I just don't think building a ****-ton of seats in the endzone is just going to "fill itself up." I do think that the expansion is coming sooner rather than later, but let's face it... we aren't Bama. We don't have 100,000 on a waiting list waiting for their shot at a ticket. I'm not even saying we aren't due for an expansion of some sort, but you only have to look back at the last regime and expansion to see where the thought of "if you build it, they will come" just doesn't work. So long as Mullen and Scott are tag-teaming, our attendance will be up... but that doesnt' mean we should through up 10 or 12K seats in the endzone and expect they will just "fill themselves up."

winning fills seats. seats help lure high end recruits. high end recruits perpetuate consistent winning. and the wheel goes round and round.<div>
</div><div>we need to bowl in the end zone. end of story. if we can easily fit 10-12K in the end zone, then so be it, let's build it. why? if we anticipate that in 10 years we'll need all those seats, it's cheaper to build it all now, than to build 7K now and then try to retrofit another 5K on the end zone in less than a decade. i don't think an expansion to 68K or so is unreasonable.</div><div>
</div><div>and yes, we need to spend money on updating the rest of the stadium too. it isn't an either/or situation.
</div>

 

[elmsurfer1]

Sit in the north side during a game starting at 11:30 and see if the sun isn't in your face all day long.

 

[drt7891]

winning fills seats. seats help lure high end recruits. high end recruits perpetuate consistent winning. and the wheel goes round and round.<div>
</div><div>we need to bowl in the end zone. end of story. if we can easily fit 10-12K in the end zone, then so be it, let's build it. why? if we anticipate that in 10 years we'll need all those seats, it's cheaper to build it all now, than to build 7K now and then try to retrofit another 5K on the end zone in less than a decade. i don't think an expansion to 68K or so is unreasonable.</div><div>
</div><div>and yes, we need to spend money on updating the rest of the stadium too. it isn't an either/or situation.
</div>

But a lot of your wool has grown so thick, facts have become irrelevant. We have had 2 winning seasons in 10 years. I'm not doubting Mullen isn't turning the corner, but do most of you really think we can add 10K seats and justify adding that many? Even though many of our games were sellouts this year, some weren't... and I don't care how many seats we add, they will NEVER fill when we play the UABs and Middle Tennessees of the world. Why just start throwing seats up just to build them? Why 10 years ago did we not just add 20,000 seats to "anticipate" being able to fill them in 15 years? That doesn't sound smart. Like I said before, I imagine we will be adding 5K to 7K and will be stretching to fill those some games. 60 to 62K is what I am anticipating. You may be right, and you may get to bump all this and make me eat my words, but come on... are there really 13,000 people right now demanding for tickets to games? I highly doubt it.

 

[drt7891]

I've sat in the endzone bleachers several times and it can be miserable... but that is true for most of the stadium.

 

[whereisomaha.sixpack]

is true, it has held true for OM. I don't know where you're coming from with the "one sell out" since expansion ********, but that's exactly what that is, ********. Last year was a bad combination of a ****** home schedule and ****** season so we only sold out the Auburn game, but let me assure you it was a "sell out". When metal chairs are being used for seats and they are selling standing room only tickets, that's a "sell out". In 09 there were metal chairs used in all four home SEC games. We might exaggerate our spring game attendance, but our home football games are pretty spot on. Odd that a remark like that came from a school that claims X number of games in a row selling out when you have 53k and 54k games sprinkled in there.

 

[dawgstudent]

but a sell out and packed house are two different things. And doesn't Ole Miss have folding chairs in those boxes right behind the benches? Or were there folding chairs somewhere else?

 

[whereisomaha.sixpack]

dawgstudent]but a sell out and packed house are two different things. And doesn't Ole Miss have folding chairs in those boxes right behind the benches? Or were there folding chairs somewhere else?

Somewhere else. We have an open area for people to walk around and kids play at the very bottom of the stadium below those boxes with the folding chairs. We get about four rows of folding chairs on the home and away side. Standing room is In SEZ at the top where the concessions are. We use chairs up there as well. All in all it adds 1k- 2k

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

the difference between this expansion and a the last expansion, was that before we only built the upper deck and the boxes on the east side. it would have been stupid to build a mini upper deck on the east side only to add on later. currently we are talking about bowling in the end zone. i think we should bowl in the endzone and the bowl should be level with the lowers decks on the ast and west sides to make the stadium look uniform. if that comes to 5K or 7K or 12K more seats, then so be it, but we should make the stadium look uniform with the bowl and the number of seats it fits, are the number of seats it fits. no need to build a shortened endzone bowl that doesn't align with the east and west side lower decks, only to wanna come back later and extend the endzoen to be uniform.

 

[00Dawg]

I heard him make remarks to the effect that they wished they had gone with a larger expansion back in 2001, particularly in luxury seating.
We're in a great time to build cost-wise, so a managed mix of aesthetics, capacity with some room beyond current demand, and comfort/convenience is the way to go.

 

[drt7891]

Luxury seating is where most of the revenue comes from, anyway. They probably didn't realize there was such a large demand for luxury seating, and now, there is evenmore of a demand. Several have mentioned on here to rip out the center sections on both the east and west sides and create more "premier" chairback seating (which I personally think would be an outstanding move). It sounds to me like he wishes they had added more luxury boxes and club seating to appeal to those who will pay big $$$ for them, not more seats for your average joe blow student who pays $25 or less a game for a ticket. </p>

 

[FlabLoser]

Ok, to show my point that "build it, they will come" doesn't work, Let's look at the numbers. For reference... Here is the old stadium capacity roughly 43,000 (including the temporary endzone bleachers). Now, it is 55,082.<div>
</div><div>2003 average attendance (because there are no ind. game statistics)- <span style="font-weight: bold;">47,667</span> between 6 home games. Nearly 7,500 empty seats on average (the new upper deck is 7,000)

</div>

See there? We didn't have to consistently sell out Scott Field to justify DWS. The instant we did the DWS expansion, we were bringing in more people than the old place would have held. This is the entire point and you just proved it.

<div>2004 average attendance... let's remember this is the first year of a new coach- 43,792... less than 1,000 more than the old stadium seated. On average, more than 10,000 empty seats. 7 home games.</div><div>
</div><div>Between 2005 and 2008, 6 games... only 6 ever broke the 50,000 plateau in attendance and only 1 sold out (Bama in '07). Second closest was Ole Miss in 05 with roughly 53,000.</div><div>Between 2005 and 2008, 12 games would not have filled the old stadium (less than 43,000 in attendance). Hell, one game had only 38,137 there. NEARLY 17,000 EMPTY SEATS and less than this year's SPRING GAME!! That would have 4,863 empty seats without the '03 expansion.For reference, the west side upper deck seats 5,500.</div><div>
</div><div>Ok, so we sold more seats, but what is the point of adding a **** ton of seats for most of them to stay empty? </div>

The expansions are getting funded with donations. As long as we seat more people than the old place could have, we're ahead.

Further - it is more than butts in the seats. It is
selling out club level and suites. This alone made it worth it. And will
make it worth it again in the endzone expansion. There is, and has been since day 1, a waiting list to get club seats and suites.

 

[drt7891]

with a **** ton of seats doesn't just "bring people." Yea, more than before... but on average, 7,500 empty seats? I never once said we shouldn't expand the stadium, I was showing that "building it, and they will come" doesn't work as justification for throwing up 10,000 or 12,000 seats when you are never gonna have butts in them. <div>
</div><div>Case in point: I imagine you went to at least several games during the Croom error. Does it not make you feel at least a littledisgusted to look up at a brand new multi-million dollar expansion and see 50 people up there? Have you ever been to an OOC basketball game in the winter or an SEC game against Auburn or LSU? Have you ever been to any regular season game at Dudy Noble and seen the grandstand half empty? The Hump built it... Dudy Noble built it... DWS built it... and they didn't come. </div><div>
</div><div>No where did I say we shouldn't expand the stadium... as a matter of fact, I'm all for it. What I'm not all for is throwing up 12,000 seats in an endzone expansion that won't fill up for another 4 or 5 years. </div>

 

[RougeDawg]

The past two seasons under Mullen we could have sold 60k plus seats to every home game except Alcorn, Houston, J State and UAB. Memphis was real close to capacity, being the first game and I think J State was close to full if my whiskey memory serves me correctly. Pretty much every other game we've played we could have easily sold 60k seats. And this was all without having a winning season since 2007.

I think one of the real issues with increasing the seating capacity is the lack of nearby hotel rooms and places for all those extra ticket holders to stay for the weekend without getting pillaged in the wallet. I'm thinking 65k should be the smallest they should expand to. With the student enrollment increasing to around 26-30k students by 2020, they can fill a large portion (or that was the projected enrollment when I was on the master plan committee). They seem to be increasing enrollment at the proposed rate each year, and will then be able to provide more student tickets as well. I would say we currently have one of the smaller student sections in the SEC and I don't see any difficulties with selling another 3-5k student tickets a year in the future.

 

[rye bread]

there has been alot of change the last couple of years. The atmosphere is totally different now than when I was in school (93-96). Malfunction Junction is now gone. We have the Mootube. We have Mullen and Stricklin. and MSU has created an EXPERIENCE that people have bought into. It isnt just about the game like it used to be. It's now about tailgaiting all day long, pregame clebs, music, cowbell ringing, and an up and coming Football Program. I would have to say that the Arkansas game was the best game I have ever been to from an Entertainment standpoint. Yeahwe lost, but it sure was fun.This yearI bought 4 more tickets and uped my BC donation by $400.Time is now build it.