Hypothetical: what would it take for football to surpass basketball at UK (based on fan interest)?

[gamecockcat]

The past few years of the basketball team have certainly soured many UK fans. While UK is still a top tier basketball school and the football team is 2nd tier (with aspirations of going higher), there's still a gap. But, the FB program's fortunes seem to be improving while the BB program's fortunes seem to be waning.

Would the FB team need to play/win the SECC game to make that next step? Go to a NY6 Bowl 2 out of 3 years? Finish top 12 for a couple years in a row? Make the expanded playoffs once every 5 years and be on the cusp several others? For long-time fans, the FB team may never surpass the BB team. For younger fans (and recruits), what would it take for their viewpoint to be more equal among the 2 or even see the FB program > BB program?

Hypothetically, let's say the BB team loses (again) in the 1st round this week and the FB goes 10-3 with another bowl win. Is that gap still the same or does it continue to decrease as each year the UK BB program starts to resemble Nebraska football (or, to a lesser extent, ND football), relying on past glory? Nothing lasts forever (IU basketball, for example) and UK's prominence as a 'BB school' may not, either.

While I don't have any big love for the BB program, I don't want to see it slip into oblivion, either. But, FB will continue to bring in the most revenue and could conceivably be more of the flagship program than BB if FB continues to improve. At least I think so.

 

[know1]

2-3 more years of Calipari should do it.

 

[will.ksr]

not to be flip, but probably five to nine national titles. i think the ebb and flow between the programs seems like a bigger deal in the micro than when zooming out in the macro sense.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

For me make the 12 team playoff. I dont see UK winning a SEC title or national title in my lifetime.

If calipari outlives me the same is true of basketball.

 

[gamecockcat]

not to be flip, but probably five to nine national titles. i think the ebb and flow between the programs seems like a bigger deal in the micro than when zooming out in the macro sense.

Not sure I agree. It's a microwave fanbase, right? The 2012 NCAA championship is probably remembered by the HS kids nowadays. But, before that? 1998? Weren't even born then. Same for '96. That's 3 championships in 27 years (with a few FFs thrown in, to be fair). Not overwhelming, imo. Anything before that, their PARENTS may not remember. Fans are no different.

You think the general consensus is that UCLA is still a BB power? Or ND/NE are FB powers? Things change and peoples' memory is very short. You may be right about UK (for now). But, fans who are <45 years old weren't born in 1978. So, for them, UK has won 3 NCAAs in the last 45 years. That's not exactly a juggernaut or 'a rich tradition'. To paraphrase an old saying about 'potential', relying on 'tradition' means you ain't done much lately (see: IU basketball, NE and ND football, Georgetown BB, et al).

 

[tdcat]

You mean it hasn't?

 

[John Henry]

Football has always been my favorite UK sport. The basketball interest is at an all time low IMO. It sure is in my family. It is going to take a long time to rebuild interest as it once was if Calipari doesn't leave soon.

We all know the damage he has done, some people just haven't opened their eyes yet.

 

[Dallas-Wild]

Love them both my entire life but my desire in Football has become increasingly more desired.

When UK basketball lost in NCAA it killed me for days, now that Im older cough cough 64 this Summer the anguish doesn't last as long.

 

[Big blue 35]

I believe it already has!

 

[why_not_kentucky]

I haven't watched a basketball game in 3 years. I will occasionally listen on the radio. Couldn't tell you who is who on the team.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

Football is bigger and more celebrated in scale. I think it’s more of the college basketball model dying a slow death.

There’s no erasure of titles and winning in UKBB history. That is locked in, but fan interest can change.

 

[vhcat70]

UK hoops has had a large UK non-attendee fan base whereas football hasn't. It's the follow the winner mentality. While that is still there, the UK attendee fanbase I believe is, and maybe has been for a long while, football oriented.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Football is bigger and more celebrated in scale. I think it’s more of the college basketball model dying a slow death.

There’s no erasure of titles and winning in UKBB history. That is locked in, but fan interest can change.

Football as a sport is definitely the better product. I care about keeping up with the big name teams and games. In basketball I'm watching UK and that's about it.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

I have never been a huge fan of college basketball, but at one time it was fairly close. But I think the one and dones have hurt its popularity. Hope I am wrong but I think the portal is going to hurt football. UGA lost several to the portal, but only 1 in the 2 deep. I guess it's a part of the game now.

On a side note the UF board is saying Goodwin will start, my thought was you better have some extra bodies at QB. Bad doesn't begin to describe his feet.

 

[kygrandpa]

Love UKFB, will watch to see if and when UKBB might win a game again... Love UKFB and hope to see it keep growing more and more... I think coach Stoops is the one to gt us there...


GBB

 

[backinky2018]

I think the gap has closed, as UK's fanbase realizes how fun it is to win in football.

To completely close the gap, I think making the playoff or winning the SEC title would do it (and yes, I realize that the former is easier than the latter)

 

[The-Hack]

On a side note the UF board is saying Goodwin will start,

Mmmmmmm.

I had heard they were short handed on the O-line, buuut, that takes the cake if it comes true.

Our edge/Jack will feast on his side.

 

[CapnBlubs]

I've always cared more about football, but I don't view it as a competition and I wish fewer of our fans did. I know that realistically there ARE some zero-sum aspects to it...the AD puts more effort and money into some sports than others...some fans can afford only to spend on traveling for one sport and not another...donors might have enough to earmark funds only for one and not another...

But I hope both teams, and all the others at UK, kick ***.

 

[will.ksr]

It's a microwave fanbase, right?

I think we agree to disagree on this very point.

I would bet the amount of internet traffic and attention that goes to UK basketball stories, recruiting, etc. dwarfs the most "mainstream" football stories. I don't think that changes for a long time...if it does change it's something like the blue hairs die off and aren't replaced because younger gens prefer football but I don't even know if that's true for the younger gens in KY (football > bball).

I would say "it's a casual fanbase" instead of a microwave. Most people aren't reading message boards and/or following day-to-day. They listen to some sports talk on the radio a bit, watch most of the games, and grew up caring a lot more about basketball than anything else. It's as much nostalgia and upbringing than anything.

My two worthless cents.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

I believe it already has!

It has. I started posting evidence for this the last two years. Everything from waning bbm interest to putrid home game attendance unless it's a great opponent. Compare that to the massive home game attendance in football for all but the fbs game and massive bowl following. It definitely already flipped.

Also it isn't limited to performance. Personality plays a huge role. Cal acts like he's in an ivory tower and so do the basketball players. Oscar's personality actually helped reverse that quite a lot but still. Whereas stoops and marrow are rich but act like everyday men still busting their butts and the players take on the same mentality.

 

[CatPatrick13]

Both. For me it’s not a competition for them.

 

[Tskware]

Mmmmmmm.

I had heard they were short handed on the O-line, buuut, that takes the cake if it comes true.

Our edge/Jack will feast on his side.

I agree, but to play Devils Advocate, if Goodwin starts and plays well, our coaching staff going to have some "splainin" to do, given our play at OT last season. Similarly, Penn State fans probably wondered why Levis never got much of a chance while there, although their starter was solid . . . but no where near a top half of the 1st round draft pick.

 

[SaltyCat22]

I get equally horny for both. Nothing like waking up on an SEC football fall Saturday morning. Nothing like UK basketball when they get cookin’ … we used to play beautiful basketball. Such a shame.

 

[Deeeefense]

Over the last several years college football has gained overall popularity while college basketball has declined. Most D1 schools prioritize football in their funding while only a handful seriously fund basketball. The number of bowl games and the extensive TV coverage of games that has also evolved factors into football's overall growth as well.

So to the question as to will the Kentucky fan base at some point become more supportive of football then basketball I would say follow the money. Right now Kentucky ranks 2nd nationally (behind Duke) in money invested in basketball, BUT it also ranks 14 nationally in money spent on football and surprisingly to me 4th in the SEC. I'm sure if you look at these numbers from decades ago you would likely not find us in the top 50 for football funding if that. So football is rapidly trending up but so far basketball is holding it's own. If the trend continues it's possible that football will at some point be the dominate sport at UK but it hasn't happened yet. It will take further success on the field but the best metric IMO is to follow the money.

 

[Rembrandt90]

Over the last several years college football has gained overall popularity while college basketball has declined. Most D1 schools prioritize football in their funding while only a handful seriously fund basketball. The number of bowl games and the extensive TV coverage of games that has also evolved factors into football's overall growth as well.

So to the question as to will the Kentucky fan base at some point become more supportive of football then basketball I would say follow the money. Right now Kentucky ranks 2nd nationally (behind Duke) in money invested in basketball, BUT it also ranks 14 nationally in money spent on football and surprisingly to me 4th in the SEC. I'm sure if you look at these numbers from decades ago you would likely not find us in the top 50 for football funding if that. So football is rapidly trending up but so far basketball is holding it's own. If the trend continues it's possible that football will at some point be the dominate sport at UK but it hasn't happened yet. It will take further success on the field but the best metric IMO is to follow the money.

In that context, the difference is that football is the principal revenue generating sport. Basketball also generates revenue at UK, but not as much revenue as football generates. So there is a built in incentive for the school to invest in football. And that is happening, thanks to Mitch Barnhart and Mark Stoops. As for fan interest in football, it is vast. UK fans travel to football games loyally and fastidiously. UK attendance at our last two Citrus Bowls in Orlando was overwhelming. I was there. These were like home games for us. The road games I have attended were made possible by UK Alumni Assn arranging our tickets, so my wife and I have always been seated right in the middle of the UK section. UK fans are ravenous and loud at these road games, and you can easily tell that our players know exactly where the UK fans are seated in the stadium. There is a close relationship between our football players and our fans. Even if interest in UK basketball is waning, it is still strong. But the interest in football is on the rapid upswing. Nobody knows exactly where the two lines will cross, but you really have to attend the football road games to witness the incredible strength and enthusiasm of UK football fans. Football is not playing second fiddle IMO, as a direct witness to both.

 

[Deeeefense]

UK fans travel to football games loyally and fastidiously. UK attendance at our last two Citrus Bowls in Orlando was overwhelming. I was there. These were like home games for us.

Yep, I remember the first Music City bowl the team went to after Brooks was hired when we still were not very good compared to now, we had 40,000 there it was like a home game. It's the ole "build it they will come" thing.

 

[Rembrandt90]

Yep, I remember the first Music City bowl the team went to after Brooks was hired when we still were not very good compared to now, we had 40,000 there it was like a home game. It's the ole "build it they will come" thing.

Agree. When I travel to UK football road games and bowl games, the energy from UK fans in the stands is electric. It is like an occupation of the stadium. Our football fans just take over the place.

There isn't much energy left from our basketball fans. They understand they are witnessing an implosion. Cal's palpable lack of interest in winning championships has sucked the life out of us.

 

[Shydog]

you guys haven't been to the same games I went to, the last two Citrus Bowls I would say the fans were pretty close to 50-50 both PSU game and Iowa game. At best 60-40 UK, at best! and the only road game I have seen us take over a stadium is at Vandy. have our followings been quite good, yeah I think so but for anyone who hasn't been to a Bowl or road game and they read these descriptions they would not get a true picture.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

you guys haven't been to the same games I went to, the last two Citrus Bowls I would say the fans were pretty close to 50-50 both PSU game and Iowa game. At best 60-40 UK, at best! and the only road game I have seen us take over a stadium is at Vandy. have our followings been quite good, yeah I think so but for anyone who hasn't been to a Bowl or road game and they read these descriptions they would not get a true picture.

Yes other teams had good turnouts too but they were traditional football schools and it's really all a red herring. UK took 40k+ to each which is the real point.

 

[BlueRaider22]

not to be flip, but probably five to nine national titles. i think the ebb and flow between the programs seems like a bigger deal in the micro than when zooming out in the macro sense.

Honestly, this is actually what my first thought was.......to have a "Bama" type run. If we won a single NC and returned back down to 8 wins a year, the fanbase would take off but basketball would still be the premier sport here. I think it would take something that has a "dynasty" feel to it.


In other words, very, very unlikely.

 

[JHB4UK]

Interesting discussion. How do you even measure "fan intetest". From my observation UK basketball fan trends older than UK football fan.

CBB is a dying sport that will never be what it was mid 80's to late 90's. To many 1 & dones or none & dones, roster completely turning over with transfers out & in. It has devolved into a sport only watched 3 weeks a season. Outside of Louisville, Lexington, Lawrence, Chappell Hill no one give a damn unless it is March.

CFB has never been more popular. Fox and NBC are investing heavily in national broadcasts of games along with ABC/ESPN. All national networks are betting big money even more eyes will be glued to CFB in the future,oh and 12 team playoff starts in '24.

 

[tdcat]

you guys haven't been to the same games I went to, the last two Citrus Bowls I would say the fans were pretty close to 50-50 both PSU game and Iowa game. At best 60-40 UK, at best! and the only road game I have seen us take over a stadium is at Vandy. have our followings been quite good, yeah I think so but for anyone who hasn't been to a Bowl or road game and they read these descriptions they would not get a true picture.

I can only speak for the Ole Miss game in Oxford last season. Very impressive turnout by UK fans in number and sound.

 

[cathouse_rivals216755]

One trip to Atlanta.

 

[billoliver40]

I like football better right now.

 

[Shydog]

I can only speak for the Ole Miss game in Oxford last season. Very impressive turnout by UK fans in number and sound.

I was there and yes it was a very good road crowd, but we didn't take over! Look I think we travel very well. the road games I have been to even if not large numbers the enthusiasm has been great. it's just when a few classified our crowds as taking over. I haven't seen that except for Vandy, I don't think it happens.

 

[optimus-blue]

I have never been a huge fan of college basketball, but at one time it was fairly close. But I think the one and dones have hurt its popularity. Hope I am wrong but I think the portal is going to hurt football. UGA lost several to the portal, but only 1 in the 2 deep. I guess it's a part of the game now.

On a side note the UF board is saying Goodwin will start, my thought was you better have some extra bodies at QB. Bad doesn't begin to describe his feet.

Nothing against the kid but if thats true they have a huge problem . No way that kid can play at that level now . From conditioning to eating habits to mental toughness he was just not ready . UF is a pressure cooker when they lose and he is not ready for that and if he is starting the gators are not gonna win .

 

[Tf2217]

Been there the last few years for me.

 

[Bratkartoffeln]

The past few years of the basketball team have certainly soured many UK fans. While UK is still a top tier basketball school and the football team is 2nd tier (with aspirations of going higher), there's still a gap. But, the FB program's fortunes seem to be improving while the BB program's fortunes seem to be waning.

Would the FB team need to play/win the SECC game to make that next step? Go to a NY6 Bowl 2 out of 3 years? Finish top 12 for a couple years in a row? Make the expanded playoffs once every 5 years and be on the cusp several others? For long-time fans, the FB team may never surpass the BB team. For younger fans (and recruits), what would it take for their viewpoint to be more equal among the 2 or even see the FB program > BB program?

Hypothetically, let's say the BB team loses (again) in the 1st round this week and the FB goes 10-3 with another bowl win. Is that gap still the same or does it continue to decrease as each year the UK BB program starts to resemble Nebraska football (or, to a lesser extent, ND football), relying on past glory? Nothing lasts forever (IU basketball, for example) and UK's prominence as a 'BB school' may not, either.

While I don't have any big love for the BB program, I don't want to see it slip into oblivion, either. But, FB will continue to bring in the most revenue and could conceivably be more of the flagship program than BB if FB continues to improve. At least I think so.

Several generations... so I'm thinking about 100 to 150 recruiting classes, or catastrophic nuclear war that ends civilization as we know it.

 

[JHB4UK]

Good God....Florida starts the season at Utah, primetime, Thurs night. Goodwin's slow feet + high attitude air + aggressive Utes defense.....probably the only game all yr Mertz will be healthy.

 

[Rembrandt90]

I was there and yes it was a very good road crowd, but we didn't take over! Look I think we travel very well. the road games I have been to even if not large numbers the enthusiasm has been great. it's just when a few classified our crowds as taking over. I haven't seen that except for Vandy, I don't think it happens.

It does happen, but we can't take over a stadium when visiting a legitimate SEC contender just due to arithmetic. Did you attend the Citrus Bowl?