I still don't understand how ole miss signs 37 (or is it 38?) players in one signing class. I hear the talk about greyshirt this, juco that and I still don't quite get it. After scrolling through Rival's top 150 classes, I see only one other program that even comes close to ole miss and that is Troy with 40 (!) signees. Don't understand that one either. What about ole miss makes them different than practically every other D1 program in the nation?
I admit ignorance about recruiting; still I don't understand
- Thread starter MadDawg.sixpack
- Start date
I still don't understand how ole miss signs 37 (or is it 38?) players in one signing class. I hear the talk about greyshirt this, juco that and I still don't quite get it. After scrolling through Rival's top 150 classes, I see only one other program that even comes close to ole miss and that is Troy with 40 (!) signees. Don't understand that one either. What about ole miss makes them different than practically every other D1 program in the nation?
I still don't understand how ole miss signs 37 (or is it 38?) players in one signing class. I hear the talk about greyshirt this, juco that and I still don't quite get it. After scrolling through Rival's top 150 classes, I see only one other program that even comes close to ole miss and that is Troy with 40 (!) signees. Don't understand that one either. What about ole miss makes them different than practically every other D1 program in the nation?
Most are just around 31-33. Out of our 38 we have at least 2 walk ons, 4-5 greyshirts, one that counts to last year (Clair) and a couple that definitely wont qualify and will be placed in juco or Hargrave. That brings us down to probably 28 or 29 with nonqualifiers and all. There is a couple like Merry that may be asked to not take a football scholarship because he can get an academic sholarship instead (he had a scholarship to Duke and picked us). But honestly we wont know a lot about what is going on till a few months down the road as people finish high school and the coaches work their magic. Im sure there is a plan in place and there are probably only a couple of guys the coaches are even concerned about. This is all assumption and deduction, so dont take it as fact, but this is how I believe it will pan out.
especially when these guys aren't that highly recruited (or at least that's what gathered from RebelSpinner's post yesterday)?
I honestly would rather not have so many greyshirts, but I have to trust the coaches here. They did awfully well at Ark and this last year here at Ole Miss on the field and their recruiting seems pretty decent for the most part. I do know that 2 of the grey shirts are the C prospect form georgia (Swindall) and one of the RB's, I think Hunter, and it had to do with him having a pretty serious injury his senior year. I dont mind the C at all, but I really am not sure why we would worry with the RB. I really think we werent able to pull a lot of the guys we got at the end till we started winning at the end of the season and the big Cotton bowl win. We already had some guys committed and the staff didnt want to tell them to take a hike, so they offered them a grey shirt. I still wouldnt be completely suprised to see a guy or 2 end up somewhere else in the end.
..but one question still remains. What about ole miss makes them different than practically every other D1 program in the country? I say practically because I did point out Troy that actually signed more. But still, your reasons don't sound that different than what would be going on at any institution (grades, walkons, etc.) But yet, nobody else signed anywhere close (again except Troy) to the number ole miss did. I can actually understand a 30 or maybe 31. You're going to have people not qualify and such. But to oversign by OVER 50%?? Seriously?
with Phillips.. He was recruited by schools, including Ole Miss, so even if he is willing to come to Ole Miss without a scholly and pay himself the second he sets foot on the field he immediately counts as one of your 85. If he was some no-name kid and you could prove he wasn't recruited then you could get away with it. OR if he could prove that ALL of his offers were taken away and walking on was his only option then that would be a possibility but Rebels here in Oxford say that he spurned a full ride to State, Alabama and others to walk on so that couldn't be right..
This is the Bear Bryant rule when he was getting around the scholarship limits because every kid in the South wanted to play for Alabama and so they wouldn't sign "football" scholarships but other types or walk on. Just like the kid you say has a full ride to Duke.. once he is a part of your football team he counts even if he's not technically getting paid... I'm pretty sure this is how all of this has been explained in the past.
This is the Bear Bryant rule when he was getting around the scholarship limits because every kid in the South wanted to play for Alabama and so they wouldn't sign "football" scholarships but other types or walk on. Just like the kid you say has a full ride to Duke.. once he is a part of your football team he counts even if he's not technically getting paid... I'm pretty sure this is how all of this has been explained in the past.
...they signed 38 because they expect to have a bunch of non-qualifiers & have to go way over the limit to get to the allowed 25.
It's not rocket science.
The part I like is: "Don't worry about 38; our top (best) 25 recruits will qualify."
********. If your top 25 recruits are expected to qualify, you don't go 13 over the limit.
It's not rocket science.
The part I like is: "Don't worry about 38; our top (best) 25 recruits will qualify."
********. If your top 25 recruits are expected to qualify, you don't go 13 over the limit.
Its not like we do this every year. There have been many programs to sign 33-35 and find room for them all, Im sure we can find a spot for 2-3 more. Hell Bama signed 33 and then 31-32 two years in a row. MSU signed 33 and then 30, so it happens. We are under the scholly limit by a good bit and we have room, so why not use it.
8Dog said:
I'm sure that the reasons vary from school to school and player, but since teams can't announce walk-ons (which I think is ridiculous by the way), maybe it's a way that they can announce legacies and give guys who were injured in high school another year to heal without penalty and at the same time get someone a guy in who can fill a need. Since scholarships are a one year deal, if a guy isn't developing or healing, a school could ask the player to walk-on or whatever.
there are 6-8 placements (remember we placed Sterling at Hargrave last year even though he qualified) and there are at least 2 on that list that are walk-ons.
TR said:
Real simple. They didn't plan on so many guys picking Ole Miss in the last week. We had 20 guys on our board with just over a week to go, and 16 chose Ole Miss. You never get those kind of numbers, so we're going to have to grayshirt more than expected. You have to play percentages, and you hope that your top remaining prospects choose you, but you never plan on signing 80% of them, because that just doesn't happen. To put it simply, too many people wanted to play for us, so we'll have to hold some guys back as grayshirts and count them toward next year. It's a good problem to have. And yes, all the grayshirt candidates knew when they were signing that they were either definitely signing as a grayshirt, or they were potentially going to take a grayshirt if we landed enough players.
I don't pretend to know how in hell Nutt is going to sort out all the numbers. I do know that kids turn down scholly's to certain schools to be an "invited" walk on to another school. It's quite common actually. I have not idea of Phillips is actually going to do that and I seriously doubt it.
You're right about the basketball/football deal though. If a kid is on the football team AND on athletic financial aid/scholarship he must count toward the football 85 limit. Doesn't matter if he also plays basketball, baseball or whatever, he counts against the football team limit.
You're right about the basketball/football deal though. If a kid is on the football team AND on athletic financial aid/scholarship he must count toward the football 85 limit. Doesn't matter if he also plays basketball, baseball or whatever, he counts against the football team limit.
"I still don't understand how ole miss signs 37 (or is it 38?) players in one signing class. I hear the talk about greyshirt this, juco that and I still don't quite get it."
This is how Nutt has used grey-shirts in the past, which may help explain. Grayshirt player-X comes to school and enrolls part time (usually takes 6 hours). He can't take more 12, or the clock starts to run on his eligibility (He's a full time student at that point). Usually the best candidates for this can get some sort of acedemic scholarship or financial aid. After the fall semester, the player is put on football scholarship and begins taking 12 hours, and thus, count on the following year's signing class. The player at that point is just like every other signee (have 5 to play 4), but the great thing is they get an additional spring in with the team.
Most of the greyshirt players are people like 1) Hunter- a guy who suffered a serious injury and will need at least a year before he can produce or 2) Hawkins (last year OL) who just isn't physically ready. He will likely readshirt this year, and next year will be a True Freshmen with two full years in the weight room at OM. Hopefully he is ready by then.
To your point about what makes OM different, its a philosophy issue. Nutt believes in it, and thinks it benefits the program years down the road. Most coaches are more concerned with filling immediate needs, and asking someone to greyshirt obviously doesn't encapsulate that. Whether he's right or not, I have no idea, but that's what he believes.
This is how Nutt has used grey-shirts in the past, which may help explain. Grayshirt player-X comes to school and enrolls part time (usually takes 6 hours). He can't take more 12, or the clock starts to run on his eligibility (He's a full time student at that point). Usually the best candidates for this can get some sort of acedemic scholarship or financial aid. After the fall semester, the player is put on football scholarship and begins taking 12 hours, and thus, count on the following year's signing class. The player at that point is just like every other signee (have 5 to play 4), but the great thing is they get an additional spring in with the team.
Most of the greyshirt players are people like 1) Hunter- a guy who suffered a serious injury and will need at least a year before he can produce or 2) Hawkins (last year OL) who just isn't physically ready. He will likely readshirt this year, and next year will be a True Freshmen with two full years in the weight room at OM. Hopefully he is ready by then.
To your point about what makes OM different, its a philosophy issue. Nutt believes in it, and thinks it benefits the program years down the road. Most coaches are more concerned with filling immediate needs, and asking someone to greyshirt obviously doesn't encapsulate that. Whether he's right or not, I have no idea, but that's what he believes.
"The part I like is: "Don't worry about 38; our top (best) 25 recruits will qualify."
********. If your top 25 recruits are expected to qualify, you don't go 13 over the limit."
Yeah, why would we ever want to oversign and have to place kids in Hargrave. Oh wait, we've gotten two 5 stars and a 4-star from Hargrave, partially because of our relationship with the Hargrave coach. I guess it kind of does make a little sense.
********. If your top 25 recruits are expected to qualify, you don't go 13 over the limit."
Yeah, why would we ever want to oversign and have to place kids in Hargrave. Oh wait, we've gotten two 5 stars and a 4-star from Hargrave, partially because of our relationship with the Hargrave coach. I guess it kind of does make a little sense.
The linked site provides some info on recruited and non-recruited walk-ons as well placing players on academic/leadership/other scholarships.
It's from a Bama site:
</a><a href="http://www.bamasportsreport.com/2008/07/01/the-bryant-scholarship-the-numbers-crunch/">http://www.bamasportsrepo...rship-the-numbers-crunch/
It's from a Bama site:
</a><a href="http://www.bamasportsreport.com/2008/07/01/the-bryant-scholarship-the-numbers-crunch/">http://www.bamasportsrepo...rship-the-numbers-crunch/
8Dog said:
I agree with you about greyshirting.
Have any of MSU's greyshirts had success?
I know Trevard Lindley at UK is a greyshirt who has developed into an all conference player. I wonder if he is the exception rather than the rule.
as to what your angle/obession is to this number thing. are you hoping some quality players won't be on the field next year? or are you hoping that some high stars don't make it so state can pass UM in the almighty crootin' rankings?
i seem to remember croom signing 34 a couple years back. so UM had a lot of guys on the fence and they all pulled the trigger and BAM there you have it......37 players. i mean what was Nutt supposed to do on signing day "umm sorry, you faxed in your LOI to late can't come". again whats your angle here?
Nutt's classes each year...
'02 - 26
'03 - 24
'04 - 32
'05 - 24
'06 - 26
'07 - 27
'08 - 30 (Nutt's first OM class)
'09 - 37
I would say Nutt hasn't always pushed the envelope with non qualifiers and gray shirts, but he's dabbled in it before. But nothing like he's done while at OM.
My question is this... What about last year's gray shirts? Don't they count toward this year's 25? And if so, sooner or later won't the numbers catch up with you and you have to tell a few kids no that were expecting scholarships?
'02 - 26
'03 - 24
'04 - 32
'05 - 24
'06 - 26
'07 - 27
'08 - 30 (Nutt's first OM class)
'09 - 37
I would say Nutt hasn't always pushed the envelope with non qualifiers and gray shirts, but he's dabbled in it before. But nothing like he's done while at OM.
My question is this... What about last year's gray shirts? Don't they count toward this year's 25? And if so, sooner or later won't the numbers catch up with you and you have to tell a few kids no that were expecting scholarships?