I compare Cohen to Rich Rodriguez....

[Coach34]

He is coming into a situation that is a shell of its former self, and is having trouble installing his philosophy and beliefs into a school that had been operating in a totally different manner.

RichRod and his system has been very successful as an assistant Tulane and Clemson, and then as a head coach at West Virginia
Cohen system has been very successful at Northwestern State, as an assistant at Fla, and then at Kentucky

They are both really good coaches and you can't say that they aren't, but for some reason, they are having early struggles turning these programs around.

I feel its more of an indictment of Miss State than it is of Cohen that we are struggling. It's worked everywhere else- why not us?

Just my take on things

 

[Coach34]

He is coming into a situation that is a shell of its former self, and is having trouble installing his philosophy and beliefs into a school that had been operating in a totally different manner.

RichRod and his system has been very successful as an assistant Tulane and Clemson, and then as a head coach at West Virginia
Cohen system has been very successful at Northwestern State, as an assistant at Fla, and then at Kentucky

They are both really good coaches and you can't say that they aren't, but for some reason, they are having early struggles turning these programs around.

I feel its more of an indictment of Miss State than it is of Cohen that we are struggling. It's worked everywhere else- why not us?

Just my take on things

 

[Hanmudog]

He is coming into a situation that is a shell of its former self, and is having trouble installing his philosophy and beliefs into a school that had been operating in a totally different manner.

RichRod and his system has been very successful as an assistant Tulane and Clemson, and then as a head coach at West Virginia
Cohen system has been very successful at Northwestern State, as an assistant at Fla, and then at Kentucky

They are both really good coaches and you can't say that they aren't, but for some reason, they are having early struggles turning these programs around.

<font color="#ff0000">I feel its more of an indictment of Miss State than it is of Cohen</font> that we are struggling. It's worked everywhere else- why not us?

Just my take on things

How so?

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

because Cohen is your boy, and you want to be right far, far more than you want MSU to be any good at anything. That's been proven over and over and over again.

 

[Hanmudog]

Stansbury gets no credit for winning at a school that has not traditionally won in basketball.

Cohen gets no blame for losing at a school that has traditionally won in baseball.

Makes sense.

 

[whatever.sixpack]

I think it's about as fair a comparison as could be made from football to baseball.

Rodriguez is a little more proven to me though, just b/c he has more than 1 or 2 proven years as a head coach (Cohen's rep is based on 1.5 good years at UK), not to mention WVU was good after he left (UK not so much after Cohen left)

The bigger difference is that Rodriguez is completely changing systems and does need completely different players, and that it might take football players longer to mature. In baseball, IMO, bringing in "players to fit your system" is not nearly on the same level as it is football. "Schemes to fit players" aren't dramatically different in baseball, they all do virtually the same thing

 

[beachbumdawg]

(Cohen's rep is based on 1.5 good years at UK),

if you are going to rip on a coach at least have your facts straight.....

2005: 29-27
2006: 44-17 (SEC Champs)
2007: 39-19-1
2008:44-19

I would say he was successfull at UK at least for 3 of the 5 years he was there with a winning record 4 of 5 years at UK....i think that is pretty impressive considering

 

[War Machine Dawg]

I think it's about as fair a comparison as could be made from football to baseball.

Rodriguez is a little more proven to me though, just b/c he has more than 1 or 2 proven years as a head coach (Cohen's rep is based on <span style="font-weight: bold;">1.5 good years</span> at UK), not to mention WVU was good after he left (UK not so much after Cohen left)

The bigger difference is that Rodriguez is completely changing systems and does need completely different players, and that it might take football players longer to mature. In baseball, IMO, bringing in "players to fit your system" is not nearly on the same level as it is football. "Schemes to fit players" aren't dramatically different in baseball, they all do virtually the same thing

C34 listed in a thread below, Cohen had 2 seasons of 40+ wins at UK and a third season where he won 39.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

[No message]

 

[BriantheDawg]

Guess I'm finally starting to get it too.

 

[beachbumdawg]

i mean those were like the first regionals in UK's history.....apples and oranges

 

[Coach34]

starts to slide and makes only 1 Super in the next 4 years, would you still want him as head coach?

 

[Hanmudog]

If a new basketball coach took over at MSU and went 5-21 would you want to give him 4 more years?

 

[futaba.79]

in Carr's lastbowl game? Didn't they go to the Rose Bowl the year before?

Rodriguez got there and ran off Ryanfreakin Mallet. So you're saying Cohen 17ed upas bad as Rodriguez?

If not that's an odd analogy at best.

 

[Coach34]

1. It's impossible to go 5-21 in basketball...football and baseball and light years ahead of basketball in conference strength

2. Let's remember that our new basketball coach would be taking over basketball team with a losing record the year before, the worst team in the conference defensively, and had 2 awful recruiting classes when he got the job.

3. I said Cohen should get 4 years total- not 4 more

 

[whatever.sixpack]

Getting 40 wins in baseball with the out of conference schedule UK played is ALMOST EXACTLY like winning 20-22 games in basketball, which you guys say doesn't mean anything.

Here's why I said he had 1.5 good years at UK:
2006 -SEC Champs = good year, but didn't make it out of a regional, Stans would be heavily ridiculed for that, that's just like losing in the 1st rd of the NCAA's

2007 -followed it up w 34 overall wins(NOT 39, so why don't you guys check before you see who has their facts straight)
Went 13-16 in conference play though and missed a regional (not a good year)

2008 -16-14 record in SEC play, 1-2 in the tourney, making them the 5th or 6th best team in the league (ok season, but didn't get out of a regional)

The double standard is obvious, these are seasons that you guys villify Stansbury for, especially when he does nothing in postseason play.

 

[Harry Truax.nafoom]

ggg

 

[JimC1097]

[No message]

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

[No message]

 

[RebelBruiser]

starts to slide and makes only 1 Super in the next 4 years, would you still want him as head coach?

If Bianco doesn't make it to Omaha sometime in the next 3 years (including this one), I don't want him to be our coach anymore. A slide with only 1 Super in the next 4 years would be a no brainer to me.

No excuse for him to not be taking us to Omaha at least once every 4-5 years. That would be 12 years with no Omaha (9 of which would be with Top 10 level support).

 

[Coach34]

its the exact same thing- except in baseball Bianco has to compete in what would be the Big East in basketball- a much tougher conference

 

[Harry Truax.nafoom]

nn

 

[whatever.sixpack]

I guess that's where we differ then, b/c I don't think Bianco should be anywhere NEAR the hot seat. He basically built that baseball program, and he's basically a top 7-15 team EVERY year.

Let's say he made supers 3 out of the next 6 years, wins 1 SEC title, 2 West titles, and 1 SECtourney title. To me, even if he didn't make Omaha the next 6 years I don't think it would be in your best interests to fire him. You can't justify taking a chance on losing a perennial top 7-15 program that has never been in that position before for the chance that you <span style="font-style: italic;">might </span>could upgrade. Chances are a lot better you downgrade.

 

[beachbumdawg]

so i did my due diligence.....i cant help it if the admin cant get that right

 

[o_CPAdawg]

Coach34, you are spot on with this whole debate. I love MSU more than I love Cohen but I also understand where we were in baseball. The baseball situation was much more comparable to the football situation of 2003 when Cohen took over. He has one group of his players playing right now and they are freshman (and they are a good core group). Forget JSU or the record at the moment. I'll start judging after about 4-5 SEC series next year. From there on, I'll have a better idea how Cohen will do.

 

[Ol Blue.sixpack]

RichRod is NOT widely regarded by<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">"football people" as the best coach in the college game,</span>

 

[Bukowski.sixpack]

We have one of the best stadiums in the nation, are top three in attendance and are paying Bianco nicely. Why would we not be able to hire a coach to replace Mike?

 

[Coach34]

it's really hard for him and others to accept that Mississippi has not only passed us by, but elevated itself into a top 25 program. All this while we continue to languish and struggle to rebuild what Polk let deteriorate the last 7 years of his career. We have gone from a mid-level SEC program to a bottom 3 SEC program and people are really having trouble accepting it. They are like a helpless 16 year old whining for her daddy to "fix it"


Cohen may or may not be right for the job. He has been successful everywhere he has been until now. He needs support and should be judged at where the program is at the end of his 4th year- and if that is not in a regional somewhere- then he needs to go.

 

[KurtRambis4]

many on here are willing to accept that we have become one of the worst programs in the SEC, and that can't be changed with one class. This program is in shambles. The only thing that will change that is bringing in highly rated recruiting classes. So far we are 1-1 on that and working on 2-2.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

[No message]

 

[olemissbydamn]

I guess that's where we differ then, b/c I don't think Bianco should be anywhere NEAR the hot seat. He basically built that baseball program, and he's basically a top 7-15 team EVERY year.

Let's say he made supers 3 out of the next 6 years, wins 1 SEC title, 2 West titles, and 1 SECtourney title. To me, even if he didn't make Omaha the next 6 years I don't think it would be in your best interests to fire him. You can't justify taking a chance on losing a perennial top 7-15 program that has never been in that position before for the chance that you <span style="FONT-STYLE: italic">might </span>could upgrade. Chances are a lot better you downgrade.

Nevermind that stupid *** answer from Bruiser. He is so busy trying to keep his internet credintact that he sometimes says dumb ****. His statement earlier is much like him saying he doesn't follow recruiting...oh...he means rankings.

In your scenario above, Bianco ain't going anywhere.

 

[jacksonreb1]

5 in baseball headcoach's slary.....yeah heck nobody will want that job. LOL

 

[dawgstudent]

but there is undeniable proof it can happen.

 

[RebelBruiser]

I'd buy that 5 years ago. There was a time when he was bigger than the program. That time is past.

He is no longer bigger than the program. I like him and think he can get the job done, but if he can't, we can and should go after someone who can. The support won't disappear overnight. The only way it would disappear is if we did something stupid like your program did when you hired Polk the 2nd time around and then let him hang on way too long. Meanwhile, in that span, Ole Miss, LSU, Arkansas, South Carolina, and Auburn all either built brand new great facilities or upgraded existing facilities significantly.

If Bianco said he was retiring after this year, our program wouldn't disappear unless we made a bad hire and then let that hire hang on for 6 or 7 years before letting him go. See LSU baseball. Their program didn't disappear after Berkman. The support stayed, and when Smoke fell below their expectation level, they showed him the door quickly.

The only reason it happened to MSU is because your bad hire just so happened to have his name on the stadium, making it impossible for you to let him go. Had you been able to get rid of him in 2005 or 2006, you'd have been able to go out and hire Mianeri, McDonnell, or someone like that, and your program would be back among the SEC's elite, and people would still be going to games.

Like it or not, despite the fact that we weren't great in the 80s or 90s, the support for our baseball program is there, and it won't disappear unless we screw it up and don't do anything about it, like you did.

 

[inforeb]

...just a decadeago. A winning program in the late 1950's throughthe early 80's (with 6 SEC titles and 4 trips to Omaha and usually 2nd-4thin SEC attendance) was allowed to wither and die on the vine due to: a) a Rebel legend in Head Coach Jake Gibbs, who was allowed to stay way too long, and (b) a deteriorating facilitywhich was allowed to becomethe worst in the leaguebecausethe AD was not a baseball guy. Then, a bad choice was made to replace Gibbs with Kessinger (my group wanted McMahon) in 1990 and an abysmal choice to hire Harrison in 1996. We didn't get it right until 2000 when we hired Bianco.

Either Cohen or the next guy will return you to prominence, but it can be VERY difficult to get it back, believe me.