I Don't Get Why It's So Hard For A DC

El Gato Calvo

All-Conference
Aug 17, 2008
1,756
1,281
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Over the course of spring and fall camps to teach how to defend the read option better.

It's assignment football.

Some guys watch the QB and some watch the RB.

It's not brain surgery.
 

seccats04

Heisman
Dec 6, 2004
14,013
21,802
113
It reminds me of the MSU game several years ago when Steve Brown was our DC and Anthony Dixon ran for 250 yards and we ran a 4-2-5 trying to stop him. Brown said something like he was surprised at how good Dixon was and I was flabbergasted. It's almost like these coaches go brain dead when they come here.
 

CoachR35

Senior
Apr 1, 2007
4,046
431
0
I don't understand how we can continue to have problems with running QBs. One would think that adjustments could be made to take away a team's strength. I understand that he may get loose a time or two for big gains, but for almost 200 yards? That I don't understand.
 

seccats04

Heisman
Dec 6, 2004
14,013
21,802
113
I don't understand how we can continue to have problems with running QBs. One would think that adjustments could be made to take away a team's strength. I understand that he may get loose a time or two for big gains, but for almost 200 yards? That I don't understand.

Especially when teams like Wake, Boston College and Virginia shut him down. In other words, teams with similar talent had much better coaching.
 

Blue Wildcat

Heisman
Oct 10, 2008
5,728
10,144
0
Especially when teams like Wake, Boston College and Virginia shut him down. In other words, teams with similar talent had much better coaching.

You have to have discipline to defend it properly. The LB's have to read the play correctly and react accordingly. Crash the offensive line and you're toast around the corner, lay back and have the RB pound you for 5 years per carry. You have to shove the offensive line into the backfield and create some disruption and have the athletes on your side to contain their best athlete.
 

Mr Schwump

Heisman
Nov 4, 2006
29,563
23,097
18
Pretty clear everybody had him figured out......except UK. You might be smarter than a 5th grader if..........
 

WildCard

All-American
May 29, 2001
65,040
7,390
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Over the course of spring and fall camps to teach how to defend the read option better.

It's assignment football.

Some guys watch the QB and some watch the RB.

It's not brain surgery.
But it is not quite that simple. Option football is designed to attack a single defender, making him "wrong" regardless of what he does. Because of the spread formations it is pretty hard to play assignment football (i.e., dive/keep/pitch) as teams did against the Wishbone/Veer teams that set up with a single WR. Unlike the basic speed option and triple option where the flow all goes in one direction, in the spread option game the RB goes 1 way and the QB the other. Coupled with a spread formation this makes it more difficult for other defenders to rally to the ball. If you "stack" your defense to stop that one play to both side side you are likely leaving a HUGE opening somewhere else.

With a speedy RB and a speedy QB it is a very difficult play to stop. Teams that consistent stop it are usually teams that enjoy a decided talent advantage. AU and tOSU each rushed for close to 300 yards against mighty AL in 2013 and 2014 respectively.

Peace
 
Apr 13, 2002
44,001
97,149
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Its very tough to defend the read option. If it were easy, everyone would shut it down and noone would run it.

That said, its about penetration and playing responsibilities. There needs to be a specific game plan for each team because certain teams have ball carriers youd much rather turn loose than others, and you know some QB's want to keep more than others (like Jackson).
 

Ineverplayedthegame

All-Conference
Aug 12, 2005
5,139
4,960
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The reason teams had an easier time with Jackson during the middle of the season was he had sprained ankle. He would go out and get it taped multiple times. Take away his speed and he is less dynamic. He got healthy and against us he would run OB to avoid hits.
 
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HalHR2500

All-Conference
Jan 28, 2002
2,537
3,591
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Watch how NFL teams defend it, only one team, Seattle (With Russell Wilson) still runs it sparingly, and why is that? Penetration blows it up.

NFL defenses crash from the OLB or DE position and kill the QB on every snap, regardless of handoff or keeper, that stops the read option right then and there.....
 

DACats86

All-Conference
Jan 7, 2003
22,776
4,134
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Makes you wonder if our coaches watched any film of those games.
Based on Forrest's comments, it sounds like the UK defense pulled the gameplan from this summer off the shelf and didn't bother to update it to reflect what UofL has been doing during the season.
 
Feb 21, 2006
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the inability to prepare and adjust in game for mobile QBs has cost us 2 games last year and 3 games this year...

Dobbs and Dak went off both last year and this year...and Jackson for UL...

contain all 3 of those guys and stoops has 5 more wins...maybe even a a bowl win...
 

shutzhund

All-Conference
Nov 19, 2005
29,202
2,619
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Over the course of spring and fall camps to teach how to defend the read option better.

It's assignment football.

Some guys watch the QB and some watch the RB.

It's not brain surgery.


You're right it's not brain surgery. Neither is understanding that you must have athletes that are comparable to the opposition's. If not then all Xs and Os won't create faster, quicker or stronger players to execute those plans.

Ever wonder why the majority of our roster is here rather than Alabama? They weren't fast enough, quick enough or strong enough for Alabama to recruit them.

Stoops is trying to change that weakness. Observant fans, the majority, realize this. Internet fans, not so much.
 

Krisys

Sophomore
Nov 16, 2015
168
123
0
the inability to prepare and adjust in game for mobile QBs has cost us 2 games last year and 3 games this year...

Dobbs and Dak went off both last year and this year...and Jackson for UL...

contain all 3 of those guys and stoops has 5 more wins...maybe even a a bowl win...

It's not a matter of personnel. We don't get any penetration from our defensive line. You can't stop the read option without it.
 
Apr 25, 2015
188
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Honestly it looked like we went all in on defending a pocket passer. The second half bothered me bc we made no changes to adjust.
I'm not saying the team gave up but it looked like we went into low gear and never got going.
 

rmattox

All-Conference
Nov 26, 2014
6,786
4,006
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DE or a corner has to be assigned to hit the qb EVERY play. 1. He will get weary of being hit. 2. Affects his read by alternating DE and Corner.
 

shutzhund

All-Conference
Nov 19, 2005
29,202
2,619
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It's not a matter of personnel. We don't get any penetration from our defensive line. You can't stop the read option without it.


Wouldn't that lead you to believe that's mostly a personnel problem?
 

KY1WING

Senior
Sep 15, 2005
1,363
623
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I like the part about hitting the QB every play whether he gives or keeps. He kept almost the entire second half and we couldn't catch him to hit him.

I may be giving CBP too much credit but after seeing how poorly we adjusted to a QB change last year I believe naming Bolin as starter was basically a decoy. He knew we couldn't defend against a running QB so why tell us up front what he was going to do.
 
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mrhotdice

All-American
Nov 1, 2002
21,923
5,450
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Over the course of spring and fall camps to teach how to defend the read option better.

It's assignment football.

Some guys watch the QB and some watch the RB.

It's not brain surgery.
It's amazing how you look at football. No coach can make a player stronger, quicker, or smarter which is what defense is all about. UK does not have those type players yet. The SEC is big boy football and UK is not yet able to put players on the field no matter what their assignment is to rush the passer, stop the run, and get in position to make plays.
 

HalHR2500

All-Conference
Jan 28, 2002
2,537
3,591
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When you don't have the athletes, you have to out scheme them, we have neither component, that's the problem. Smacking the dog crap out of the QB every play puts an end to read option. Corner run blitzes and double A gap blitzes would have forced Petrino's hand to force Jackson to pass it.
 
Apr 13, 2002
44,001
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DE or a corner has to be assigned to hit the qb EVERY play. 1. He will get weary of being hit. 2. Affects his read by alternating DE and Corner.

Right. When the QB is a dynamic runner, like Jackson, you want to make him get rid of the ball. UK didnt even come close. The contain/read defender crashed the give every single time. Jackson pulled and gained easy, easy yards every time.
 
Apr 25, 2015
188
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This year with the exception of Charlotte was a toss up. Stoops needs to look at how he's going to move forward with the staff and his current roster. Plan and simple things have to change.
The extra practices for bowl games would have helped last year and this year but not sure how much.
 

Soupbean

All-American
Jan 19, 2007
5,945
8,109
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But it is not quite that simple. Option football is designed to attack a single defender, making him "wrong" regardless of what he does. Because of the spread formations it is pretty hard to play assignment football (i.e., dive/keep/pitch) as teams did against the Wishbone/Veer teams that set up with a single WR. Unlike the basic speed option and triple option where the flow all goes in one direction, in the spread option game the RB goes 1 way and the QB the other. Coupled with a spread formation this makes it more difficult for other defenders to rally to the ball. If you "stack" your defense to stop that one play to both side side you are likely leaving a HUGE opening somewhere else.

With a speedy RB and a speedy QB it is a very difficult play to stop. Teams that consistent stop it are usually teams that enjoy a decided talent advantage. AU and tOSU each rushed for close to 300 yards against mighty AL in 2013 and 2014 respectively.

Peace
Understand it's not simple as some are making it but on the other side the the OPs right it's not brain surgery and you are way overthinking it as we'll. almost all of the yards Jackson got Saturday were on very simple situations where the DE or outside defender setting the edge dove inside on the fake for the RB and he ran unopposed around the corner. Nothing more, nothing less, that simple period. There is no explanation fathomable for how a coaching staff can let that happen. It blows the mind how basic that is yet how we continued (not only in this game but against Miss ST and UT) to fall for the fake time and again knowing we left the edge every time. Like watching a dog when you act like you throw his bone.
 

yoshukai

Heisman
Dec 21, 2002
26,749
36,161
102
So someone that knows more about football tell me , is it easier to defend the read option with a 3 man front or a 4 man front ?
 

mtn cat1

All-Conference
Feb 5, 2003
4,258
1,523
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I don't understand how we can continue to have problems with running QBs. One would think that adjustments could be made to take away a team's strength. I understand that he may get loose a time or two for big gains, but for almost 200 yards? That I don't understand.

When your HC & one of your leading defenders says, "we didn't prepare for Jackson," there in lies the elephant in the room!!!!!
 

Johnfarrel

All-American
Oct 9, 2001
5,242
5,235
113
Jackson was going to carry the ball almost all the time against Kentucky when he ran the read option. key on him and take your lumps if the running back gets the ball.
 

fuzz77

All-Conference
Sep 19, 2012
12,163
1,423
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It reminds me of the MSU game several years ago when Steve Brown was our DC and Anthony Dixon ran for 250 yards and we ran a 4-2-5 trying to stop him. Brown said something like he was surprised at how good Dixon was and I was flabbergasted. It's almost like these coaches go brain dead when they come here.
Folks that complain about that MSU game need to go back and watch the film. MSU lined up with Dixon alone in the backfield and had 4 receivers split wide. That took 4 defenders out of the picture. If you packed the box then you would have left receivers uncovered. MSU's front 5 blocked our DL and LBs at the point of attack which was good enough for Dixon to get 5 yds up field before being touched.
 

Birdseat

Redshirt
May 4, 2007
92
23
0
Over the course of spring and fall camps to teach how to defend the read option better.

It's assignment football.

Some guys watch the QB and some watch the RB.

It's not brain surgery.
How often does uk play against an option QB? You tend to play to your tendencies.
 

WildCard

All-American
May 29, 2001
65,040
7,390
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Understand it's not simple as some are making it but on the other side the the OPs right it's not brain surgery and you are way overthinking it as we'll. almost all of the yards Jackson got Saturday were on very simple situations where the DE or outside defender setting the edge dove inside on the fake for the RB and he ran unopposed around the corner. Nothing more, nothing less, that simple period. There is no explanation fathomable for how a coaching staff can let that happen. It blows the mind how basic that is yet how we continued (not only in this game but against Miss ST and UT) to fall for the fake time and again knowing we left the edge every time. Like watching a dog when you act like you throw his bone.
Yeah, probably so. The real issue in defending the spread option is the spread formation itself makes it almost impossible to "help" the contain defender on the end. He must respect the QB run to the outside and, as minimum, must keep the QB moving laterally until help can get there. If the QB gets around him quickly it is almost always a nice gain. And guys with Jackson's speed have a huge advantage on a DE.

So that means the contain defender (DE or walked up LB) must not even think about helping to his inside until the ball is clearly given inside. But this essentially takes one of you DLs out of defending the inside run and leaves you vulnerable to plays attacking a now very wide B gap (e.g., inside zone run by QB, maybe with backside pull or lead block on the contain guy). Teams that defend the spread option the best seem to be teams that have very athletic contain guys who are also disciplined in their play. When you are unblocked and you "see the ball" it often very difficult to simply hold your gap. With the right personnel it is just a really tricky play to defend.

Peace
 
Sep 13, 2003
23,905
33,655
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The fact that he was stopped by a Wake Forest Defense, defies the "not talented enough" argument. Our DE's and OLB's were NEVER capable of reading an offense the entire season. EKU used it to run and throw at will against our defense. That's coaching.
 

barnacle77

All-Conference
Mar 27, 2008
999
1,828
93
Yeah, you'd think as many times as we be burned by running QBs over the last few years that Stoops would have made it a point of emphasis in Spring & Summer camps. Especially since going into the season he knew he'd be facing 4 or 5 good running QBs.
 

MacCard

Junior
May 29, 2001
2,788
277
0
The fact that he was stopped by a Wake Forest Defense, defies the "not talented enough" argument. Our DE's and OLB's were NEVER capable of reading an offense the entire season. EKU used it to run and throw at will against our defense. That's coaching.

Jackson sprained his ankle against Wake and was pretty hobbled most of the game. There were a number of times that he appeared to have space and he just struggled to move well enough to do anything with it.
 
A

anon_013cn8yrfncx2

Guest
Hate to beat a dead horse but bend don't break is a flawed approach against any kind of offense
 

Soupbean

All-American
Jan 19, 2007
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Yeah, probably so. The real issue in defending the spread option is the spread formation itself makes it almost impossible to "help" the contain defender on the end. He must respect the QB run to the outside and, as minimum, must keep the QB moving laterally until help can get there. If the QB gets around him quickly it is almost always a nice gain. And guys with Jackson's speed have a huge advantage on a DE.

So that means the contain defender (DE or walked up LB) must not even think about helping to his inside until the ball is clearly given inside. But this essentially takes one of you DLs out of defending the inside run and leaves you vulnerable to plays attacking a now very wide B gap (e.g., inside zone run by QB, maybe with backside pull or lead block on the contain guy). Teams that defend the spread option the best seem to be teams that have very athletic contain guys who are also disciplined in their play. When you are unblocked and you "see the ball" it often very difficult to simply hold your gap. With the right personnel it is just a really tricky play to defend.

Peace
All true Wild but my point is the DE is rarely involved in the inside run anyway unless tackling from behind late or behind the line of scrimmage which is rare. Most of the time he is there to herd them back to the middle for the line and linebackers to make the play. And if I'm taking my druthers I'd much more rather give up a rare opportunity for the DE to make a tackle on a RB one or two yards sooner than he would have been tackled anyway by someone else than to lose contain and have the QB go for 20 or more. I know the DE's will not always make that play either but in our case it wasn't even a possibility. Jackson, Hobbs and Prescott rarely had to make anybody miss as we mindlessly left them open field to run as we bit time after time at the fake. Almost impossible to believe what you were watching.