I just hate to tell you fellows but...

scotchie

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Aug 28, 2008
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after 50 years of cheering for the Dogs, it has finally dawned on me that this is just the way it is. I have either listen to Jack or attended most every game the Dogs have played since 1958, with the exception of my tour in the U.S. Army and South Vietnam in the early 60's, and I am sad to be the one to have to tell you..."this is the way it is always going to be."
There will be periods of joy and light (Bellard, Tyler, Sherrill, etc.,), but for the most part, this is our lot in life.
So get happy or get fuc--d.
 

scotchie

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Aug 28, 2008
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after 50 years of cheering for the Dogs, it has finally dawned on me that this is just the way it is. I have either listen to Jack or attended most every game the Dogs have played since 1958, with the exception of my tour in the U.S. Army and South Vietnam in the early 60's, and I am sad to be the one to have to tell you..."this is the way it is always going to be."
There will be periods of joy and light (Bellard, Tyler, Sherrill, etc.,), but for the most part, this is our lot in life.
So get happy or get fuc--d.
 

ShrubDog

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Apr 13, 2008
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Thanks for your service man and being a Bulldog. I am just scared that this football team is going to kill Jack before the next era.

For some reason we always gotta run up the middle...........
 

MaxwellSmart

Senior
May 28, 2007
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I really think with the 12 game schedules and Byrne running the show we can hire a coach who will have us in bowls regularly with the occasional great years mixed in.
 

was21

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May 29, 2007
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of time, you've been beaten down by decisions made on the selection of head coaches? Some people have tried to justify keeping Croom because they say that changing coaches as often as we have has added to the instability of the program. There's nothing wrong with changing coaches as long as the right choice is made...we simply have made a habit over a long period of time of not making the right choices. In the present case, he wasn't hired to win....he was hired for PR purposes. He is or should now be expendable, particularly since his ineptness if more than obvious. With the new money from ESPN, we should be able to hire a top notch "real "coach. I really believe that Greg Byrne is capable of doing that.
 

VinceVega70

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Sep 24, 2007
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we'd be winning right now. Maybe he'd jump for a better job at some point, maybe not. But we'd at least not be back at square one.
When Croom leaves, I firmly believe Greg Byrne will make an excellent hire as he did with baseball. Not an unproven, underqualified, political hire like what LT did. My reason for optimism is that we finally have competence in the AD and really this is going to be more housecleaning that will ultimately be healthy for the program.
 

AROB44

Junior
Mar 20, 2008
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Sorry -- but you forget we are a graveyard for coaches, not a stepping stone. This fantasy everyone seems to have about a new coach or new OC is just that --- a fantasy. We could have hired Jimbo Fisher, Urban Meyer, Steve Spurrier, or (insert the name of your choice) and nothing would be different. Look at our history. JWS was just lightning in a bottle and the bottle finally broke and we returned to normal. JWS did not destroy our program as some say --- he left it in the shape it has historically been. Look at the top of this page --- it says it all.

Abandon all hope ye who cheer for the maroon and white
 

Rufus Crispo

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Mar 3, 2008
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While I'd agree that there is a glass ceiling to MSU football, there's no reason to field a team that struggles with the Maines and LA Techs of the world. Everyone likes to point to the non-BCS schools having success because of the 85 scholarship limit, but that should really help a school like State too.

Not to get to heavy about this, but if you've ever read the book <span style="font-style: italic;">Guns, Germs, and Steel</span>, its main point is that built-in geographic advantages go a long way toward a society's ability to build and sustain its development. A similiar, if more lighthearted, lesson could be drawn about college football: MSU just doesn't have the built-in, across-the-board advantages of a Florida or an LSU or an Alabama or a Georgia, but it does have <span style="font-style: italic;">some degree</span> of those advantages.

As a point of comparison, look at all the screw-ups that LSU survived last season--with that talent base, their margin of error's pretty damn big. MSU's margin for error is much, much smaller--almost zero, if we're talking about winning any kind of championship--but damn, Ga Tech scored in the teens against BC and Va Tech and doubled that yesterday. They only score a field goal more against a D1-AA school in their season opener. Give me a break.
 

SixtonPackerish

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Sep 12, 2008
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was21 said:
of time, you've been beaten down by decisions made on the selection of head coaches? Some people have tried to justify keeping Croom because they say that changing coaches as often as we have has added to the instability of the program. There's nothing wrong with changing coaches as long as the right choice is made...we simply have made a habit over a long period of time of not making the right choices. In the present case, he wasn't hired to win....he was hired for PR purposes. He is or should now be expendable, particularly since his ineptness if more than obvious. With the new money from ESPN, we should be able to hire a top notch "real "coach. I really believe that Greg Byrne is capable of doing that.
That seems to be the perception of many middle-aged and older Bulldog fans, not all but many. And I believe you are right saying they've been beaten down by decisions made in the past. But I don't buy that **** that we'll always be this way, things won't change, MSU will always be the whipping post. Not for one damn minute. With the right people in place, things can change and I firmly believe they will. No longer do we have an AD who's kowtowing to every swinging d1ck with his hand out, thinking of himself instead of who's doling out his paycheck. We picked the right AD, now we have to make sure we get the right president. MSU can be swept clean of the old school line of thinking and I think that started with Byrne. I don't for one minute think I'm going to my grave having seen MSU no better than it is now. Not one damn minute. Croom wasn't hired because he was a good or up and coming head coach. He had no head coaching background. He was hired to appease the SEC office, to lessen the hit from probation and to make that inevitable media splash about his race. His resume did not qualify him for the position of a head coach in the SEC and his fifth season is year five of proving that.
 

jwbigcreek

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Feb 26, 2008
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maybe not like LSU, UGA, or UF but I think the right coach could build a consistent winner. I think the right coach would have won at least 6 this year (& quite possibly one or two more of the years Croom has been here).
 

Croomp

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Jun 25, 2008
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watching piss poor football. Not with a guy setting standards like Greg Byrne. The expectations are higher these days its not trying to get by(Larry Templeton) its getting to the next level.
 

SwampDawg

Sophomore
Feb 24, 2008
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I have listened to him call so many terrible, absolutely piss poor games that I am like Pavlov's dog, except it is my stomach secreting acid. I literaly cannot listen to him.
 

VinceVega70

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Sep 24, 2007
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I'd give this up and find another hobby. I understand your gloom, but we've made so many missteps in the AD over the years, it's hard to say that a good hire would not work. We are now reaping the results of a political hiring of an unqualified coach.
Croom clearly was a bad hire. No experience as a college head coach. No college experience in 20 years (and the game changed so much in that time). Stubborn arrogant approach that meant he'd learn slowly if at all. I'm sure Bama had reason for not hiring him other than racism. That said, they did go on to another bad hire in Shula, but they corrected that mistake and went out and hired a guy with a track record in college, Saban.
It's time for us to correct another mistake of LT. And I think Byrne will do it.
 

ArrowDawg

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Oct 10, 2006
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....your service to this country. Secondly, I understand why you feel the way you do about MSU football. It's hard to avoid giving up on the program ever being successful. HOWEVER, I have to respectfully disagree with you. MSU football can be much better than this. I'm not talking about championships. Like someone else pointed out, we have 12 game schedules these days. If we can't at least win 6 games(bowl eligibility) most years then we should be ashamed. And, we are, or at least I am.

I will never tolerate or accept this. The more of us that do, the harder it'll be for MSU football to ever reach a higher level. I know that some people scoff at such a notion, but believe it or not the fans have a great deal of influence over the success of a football program. If they don't expect better, then most administrations would probably be more inclined to let the losing go on and only concern themselves with being "in the black." Does that sound familiar?
 

Woof Man Jack

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Apr 20, 2006
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No doubt, it <span style="font-weight: bold;">could</span> be better at MSU....it just <span style="font-weight: bold;">won't</span> be.

Yeah, Byrne gives us all hope that the best is yet to come, but for one reason or another...this **** will not drastically change. The only improvement I expect,is that we beat every directional school every damn time we play them. Otherwise, settle in and accept reality. I did, and my blood pressure is much better as a result.
 

Sutterkane

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Jan 23, 2007
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If Kansas, Boise State, South Florida, and Utah can build decent, consistent, winning programs and make it to BCS bowls then so can State. Three out of those 4 schools I named aren't even in talent-laden areas or places that are any better than Starkville. If you welcome and accept mediocrity, what is really the point in competing at all? I am not saying we should be expecting national championships, but 1 winning season in 8 years is rolling over and dying.

This is where I am going to go off on a political soap-box like rant like I'm singing "Heal the World":

and honestly, this type of thinking is what is keeping Mississippi from being a better state. If you think it is always going to be ok to be dead last in education, and that Jackson is always going to be a crime-ridden area, and incomes are never going to be at the median of the rest of the country, then you're part of the problem. By not expecting better or more, you're instilling in the next generation that it's ok to not exceed at everything you do and to not try and be better.

Bring the hate.
 

CdawgNHouston

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Sep 17, 2003
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how's his offensive production numbers when he's playing teams that matter? Current rate, you think he'll be still on that inside track?
 

ArrowDawg

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Oct 10, 2006
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....numerous times that we don't just need a coaching change. We also need a CULTURE change.

We have losing so ingrained in our thinking from the top of the administration to the bottom of the fan base that we always seem to make the wrong decisions. We also have a mentality about things such as how our offense is supposed to be at MSU. Some people say things like "our offense has always been conservative, smash-mouth football," so that's what they believe we're supposed to always have at MSU. Or they make comments such as "we played the #9 team in the country to a 3-2 loss," so somehow that's supposed to be satisfactory because we're little 'ol MSU. It's things like this that I believe are part of a culture of losing, and the only way to combat it is for a majority of us(most importantly the administration) to get on the same page where we believe it's time to take a new approach, an approach where we believe we can win and won't accept anything less. That's why I think a lot of us are so enamored with Greg Byrne right now, because he represents one last bastion of hope for a lot of us. If he doesn't take that big step, then a lot of us will probably jump on board with you guys in the belief that MSU football will never get much better.</p>
 

RocketCityDawg

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Nov 11, 2007
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Although I did read your "resignation" from another board.

I went to my first MSU game 49 years ago, and it's been a "Rockey" road since then.

On the drive back from ATL today, I did have time to reflect on those usually painful decades of being a Dawg fan.

When I got home, I didn't build a bonfire and burn my degrees from MSU.
For practically all of us, the prowess of MSU atletics wasn't what led us there.
We went for an education.
And, as I often point out to those of other persuasions,
if you see someone wearing our Maroon, they likely went to school there. We don't have "subway alums" like Bama, LSU, Auburn, and many others who have fans who may not have even finished HS. Not outside MS, anyway.

I like the attitude of our younger generations that are fed up with history, and just want to win, dammit.
And to them, I can only say...that's what all of us have always wanted.

We older gens have just been resigned to accepting what happened, because that's what we always got.
Beaten down, we are.

So, lead the revolution. To the barricades! Change with a purpose.

Good luck with that, BTW.

RCD
 

Croomp

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Jun 25, 2008
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RocketCityDawg said:
Although I did read your "resignation" from another board.

I went to my first MSU game 49 years ago, and it's been a "Rockey" road since then.

On the drive back from ATL today, I did have time to reflect on those usually painful decades of being a Dawg fan.

When I got home, I didn't build a bonfire and burn my degrees from MSU.
For practically all of us, the prowess of MSU atletics wasn't what led us there.
We went for an education.
And, as I often point out to those of other persuasions,
if you see someone wearing our Maroon, they likely went to school there. We don't have "subway alums" like Bama, LSU, Auburn, and many others who have fans who may not have even finished HS. Not outside MS, anyway.

I like the attitude of our younger generations that are fed up with history, and just want to win, dammit.
And to them, I can only say...that's what all of us have always wanted.

We older gens have just been resigned to accepting what happened, because that's what we always got.
Beaten down, we are.

So, lead the revolution. To the barricades! Change with a purpose.

Good luck with that, BTW.

RCD

well spoken and one of the best things ive seen come out of the weekend.
 

jwbigcreek

Redshirt
Feb 26, 2008
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should have gotten up with you during the game. I went over with one of my GT buds & sat in section 228 (?). Although we got the shat beat out of us, at least I got some good down-home Georgia cookin' from his mother-in-law Sat nite & Sun morn. Got the business from this father-in-law about our game & the UF-UT game (not that I really pull for the Vols anymore).
 

RocketCityDawg

Redshirt
Nov 11, 2007
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I was there with Backer and some others from our usual tailgate crew.

Oh well, on to the Vandy game. The crowd may be sparse...

I encountered our Huntsville bro CF4MSU outside the stadium before the game.

Later,
RCD
 

sixpackmafia

Redshirt
Feb 24, 2008
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here is a toast to ya brotha...... sixpackmafia.......stuck in NE Jackson..... artist formerly known as Igotbannedongenespage
 

scotchie

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Aug 28, 2008
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I totally agree with you about the high quality of education that we all received at MSU.
During my 45 years as a Structural Engineer I was always the go-to guy.
I have designed bridges for the Alaskan Pipeline haul road, for the Interstate Highway system in Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Tenneesee, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Missouri. I have designed Docks, bulkheads, parking garages, etc., etc. all over this country, so I have been exposed to all kinds of engineers from many different Universities, and I would place my education on a par with any of these.
The fact still remains that I have never experienced a run of over 3 or 4 years of competitive football. I still love the Dogs and I still listen to or watch them when I can, and I still suffer when they lose.
But that is "just the way it is."
 

NutherT

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Oct 14, 2007
429
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...and I agree that MSU has inherant disadvantages. I will say however, that one thing about Croom...the one thing that should give him a longer leash than he deserves...is that he is special. Based on factors outside of our control, MSU is down in a hole that is almost impossible to climb out of. Every once in awhile, we can get a good running start and peak over the top, but we'll eventually have to face the reality that we will always fall right back in the hole.

HOWEVER, Croom gave/gives us something that gives us an unmatchable advantage over our peers. He will always, always, always be the only man who broke the color barrier in SEC football. No one can take that away from him or from MSU. IF Croom could be successful, he could propel us to the top. With some success, he would become a nationally known figurehead. 90% of the college football players in our region are black, and they (and their mommas) inherently identify and trust Croom more than his peers. He had/has the potential, with some success, to go head to head against LSU or Florida for players. He has/had the potential, with some success, to go head to head against LSU or Florida for media coverage. I don't see any other plausible scenario where that could happen at MSU.

All that said, our program is in a state of disarray. We are at a crossroads. I personally think we should consider holding onto Croom for as long as we can bear it. We will never have another opportunity like he presents. We took the same type of gamble that McCain took by choosing Palin, one that had to be taken to overcome seemingly insurmountable odds. Palin could turn out to be a giant mistake for McCain, but it sure doesn't look that way. Without her though, McCain had no chance. He threw the long ball, and right now the ball is on its way down and it looks like his receiver has the defense beat. But there's always a chance the defender could recover or his receiver could drop it.

We were in the same place when we hired Croom. We could have made the best 'traditional' hire possible and gone to two or three mediocre bowl games with more on the way. But we'd never get over that hump. He would have been Tim Pawlenty, a white, male Governor. We'd never climb out of that hole. He would just be a good coach competing against other good coaches with better fanbases, better facilities, more tradition, and more money. As soon as he had some success, he would leave to join their ranks.

Anyway, enough with that analogy. I think everyone agrees that Croom being successful would be the absolute best thing for MSU, but I don't mean that in the same way Ole Miss fans may have meant it toward the end of Orgeron's tenure. I mean it such that this remains a once-in-a-generation type of opportunity for MSU football and that we should do everything we can possibly do to make it a success. Part of that will be at the end of this season. Byrne will have to convince Croom that he needs to continue to be CEO, but let other, new faces come in and innovate. While doing this, Byrne will be faced with the perhaps insurmountable task of managing Croom's pride.
 

Brutius

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Aug 5, 2004
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How many of those teams would be doing even remotely as well as they have if they played in the SEC? I guess you can say KSU would since they play in the big 12, but as we've seen in recent years their success was not sustained.

And I'm gonna have to call ******** on your "3 of the 4 aren't in a place better than Starkville"

Boise has a population of 200k and a metropolitan population of 635k. USF is in Tampa for God's sake. Utah is in Salt Lake City. As someone who has traveled to all 48 lower states and most major cities for work over the years, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that SLC is one of the most beautiful cities in the US. KSU is the only school you listed in a place comparable to Starkville. Noone born outside of Mississippi would choose Starkville over any of them if given a choice.