I know nothing about gymnastics...
- Thread starter dawgatUSM
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If it takes someone else to decide who did the best, then it's not a sport.
Call it a competition if you like, but it's not a sport. Figure skating, cheerleading, etc. are not sports.
Swimming, golf, even NASCAR all qualify as sports ahead of things like gymnastics.
Call it a competition if you like, but it's not a sport. Figure skating, cheerleading, etc. are not sports.
Swimming, golf, even NASCAR all qualify as sports ahead of things like gymnastics.
we have this discussion every year but is boxing a sport? Or is it kind of a sport since you can win by KO but a lot of the times, judges are involved.
I definitely think boxing in the form of fight until someone is knocked out is definitely a sport. When the judges have to step in, it loses some of the nature that in my opinion makes up sport. I'm pretty sure in its original form, boxing was all about fighting until the last man was standing. That's definitely a sport. The more humane version we have today where they try not to end up with a bunch of dead boxers allows for judges to have too much say.
Sport is about outwitting or being faster or stronger than your opponent. It's not about impressing judges.
If you can have one set of judges determine that one person wins and then another set of judges see the same routines and determine another person is a winner, it doesn't qualify as a sport.
It's an athletic event or a competition, but it's not a sport anymore than ball room dancing is when you bring judges into the equation.
I've got all the respect in the world for what gynmasts do. They are amazing athletes, but they aren't competing in a sport. Sport to me is defined by your ability to determine the outcome.
If they didn't keep score in football, and if they had judges watch the game and then offer an opinion on who won by what score, then it wouldn't be a sport in my eyes. It would be an athletic event or a competition.
Sport is about outwitting or being faster or stronger than your opponent. It's not about impressing judges.
If you can have one set of judges determine that one person wins and then another set of judges see the same routines and determine another person is a winner, it doesn't qualify as a sport.
It's an athletic event or a competition, but it's not a sport anymore than ball room dancing is when you bring judges into the equation.
I've got all the respect in the world for what gynmasts do. They are amazing athletes, but they aren't competing in a sport. Sport to me is defined by your ability to determine the outcome.
If they didn't keep score in football, and if they had judges watch the game and then offer an opinion on who won by what score, then it wouldn't be a sport in my eyes. It would be an athletic event or a competition.
Hell, don't tell me "judges" or refs don't affect basketball, soccer, football, etc. Remember when Russia beat the US in basketball? Apparently judges do matter in that sport too.
Big difference, refs and officials are in place to enforce the rules. Yes, they sometimes make mistakes that can have an effect on the outcome, but they aren't in a position where there job is solely to determine the outcome. Judges have the job of watching the action and then determining 100% of the outcome based on what they saw.
Like I said for football, if the referees were there to watch an entire basketball game and score the game based on how efficient or how pretty the shots were for one team as compared to another, then basketball would not be a sport. However, that's not the case. The basketball teams determine the outcome themselves by scoring points and operating within the framework of the rules.
Like I said for football, if the referees were there to watch an entire basketball game and score the game based on how efficient or how pretty the shots were for one team as compared to another, then basketball would not be a sport. However, that's not the case. The basketball teams determine the outcome themselves by scoring points and operating within the framework of the rules.
but the boxing we know today hardly qualifies...gone are the days of true beat downs (wiki Jack Dempsey and read the account of the Willard fight).
This is why UFC and the like are eating boxing's lunch. It is a return of man to man combat. And coincidentally, probably less injurious to the fighters long term. Sure you get cauliflower ear and your knees and elbows bend in all strange directions (see olympic weightlifter video for demonstration purposes) but at least it isn't 12 rounds of constant head trauma.
This is why UFC and the like are eating boxing's lunch. It is a return of man to man combat. And coincidentally, probably less injurious to the fighters long term. Sure you get cauliflower ear and your knees and elbows bend in all strange directions (see olympic weightlifter video for demonstration purposes) but at least it isn't 12 rounds of constant head trauma.
I'm not saying gymnasts aren't great athletes, and I'm not saying they don't put in a ton of work. In fact, Olympic gymnasts probably put in more hours doing gymnastics than any other athletes in the world. All I'm saying is you can't put it in the same category as football, basketball, baseball, soccer, golf, etc.
I'm not saying it's a lesser event or anything. I just don't call it a sport, because, like figure skating, cheerleading, etc. it doesn't fit in the same mold based on the fact that the outcome is decided solely by a panel of judges.
I classify it as a competition, because they're competing to impress judges. Sports to me are events where you are competing directly against an opponent or opponents, and the outcome is decided by who is smarter, stronger, faster, etc., not decided by who impresses the judges the most.
Another factor that separates those athletic events into a different category is the fact that the competitors don't do the same activities. They all have different routines with different levels of difficulty, and they are rated objectively on those things. There is little room for objectivity in most sports. In golf, you either hit it in the hole or you don't. In football, you either get in the endzone or you don't. In basketball, the ball either goes through the net or it doesn't.
I'm not saying it's a lesser event or anything. I just don't call it a sport, because, like figure skating, cheerleading, etc. it doesn't fit in the same mold based on the fact that the outcome is decided solely by a panel of judges.
I classify it as a competition, because they're competing to impress judges. Sports to me are events where you are competing directly against an opponent or opponents, and the outcome is decided by who is smarter, stronger, faster, etc., not decided by who impresses the judges the most.
Another factor that separates those athletic events into a different category is the fact that the competitors don't do the same activities. They all have different routines with different levels of difficulty, and they are rated objectively on those things. There is little room for objectivity in most sports. In golf, you either hit it in the hole or you don't. In football, you either get in the endzone or you don't. In basketball, the ball either goes through the net or it doesn't.
between officials "affecting" the outcome of a sport and judges solely determining the outcome of an event. I agree with Bruiser, anything that requires judges to decide what the score is isn't a sport. It may be physicaly demanding as hell (I'd break every bone in my body if I tried some of that **** gymnists do and I have every respect for their athletic ability), but it's not a sport.Optimus Prime 4 said:
[b said:
So I've learned that gymnastics is not a sport, because a judge decides the outcome, not the gymnast.... gymnast are great athletes but don't participate in a sport, because gymnastics is not a sport, but bowling, nascar, fishing, and the spelling bee are because "judges" don't decide the outcome.... You sure do post some stupid **** sometimes... If bowling is a 17ing sport, then gymnastics is most definitely a sport, judge or no judge. I guess that "judge" didn't play a part in the outcome of the Ole Miss/Alabama game last year? There sure was alot of billboard talk going on after that game... Of course, I know you will retort with, "Ole Miss shouldn't have let that play determine the outcome" but regardless if they had the whole game to beat bama and shouldn't have let that play determine the outcome, the ref most certainly played a part in the outcome of the game, which is your argument of why gymnastics isn't a sport.
Was it the Sooners and Oregon game when the ref blew the onsides kick call that allowed Oregon to get the ball and win the game, when it should have been Oklahoma's ball and the Sooners should have won? So I guess football isn't a sport anymore....</p>
Optimus Prime 4 said:
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The Olympics has a ton of events that would be classified as competitions in my book. It doesn't mean they can't be Olympic events. It just means they don't classify in the same category as other events like football, basketball, etc.
Sport: <span class="pg">-noun</span> <table class="luna-Ent"> <tbody> <tr> <td class="dn" valign="top">1.</td> <td valign="top">an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
Obviously we differ on how we classify athletic events. You classify them based on the amount of athletic ability required. I classify them based on how the outcome is decided.
And like I said, referees make mistakes, but their job is to enforce the rules only. Their job is not to decide the outcome. Judges have the job of deciding the outcome.
If umpires had scorebooks, and they watched a guy hit a line drive to third base and awarded a certain number of points based on how hard the ball was hit instead of just determining whether a the ball was caught or not, then baseball would be in the same category as gymnastics and figure skating.
Referees are in place to make decisions on plays that are borderline (diving catches, strikes and balls, fouls) and to enforce the rules. They aren't there to determine who did the best job. After a game is over, you don't have to wait for the official to give his judgement on who won the game and who lost the game. You just have to look at the scoreboard. When a competition like figure skating or gymnastics is complete, you have to wait on the judges to tell you who won or lost. That puts those events in a different category.
Edited to add: Again, I'm not trying to say that gymnastics, etc. are lesser events. I'm just saying that I can't place them in the same category as other sports, because the athletes themselves don't score the points to win the game.
And like I said, referees make mistakes, but their job is to enforce the rules only. Their job is not to decide the outcome. Judges have the job of deciding the outcome.
If umpires had scorebooks, and they watched a guy hit a line drive to third base and awarded a certain number of points based on how hard the ball was hit instead of just determining whether a the ball was caught or not, then baseball would be in the same category as gymnastics and figure skating.
Referees are in place to make decisions on plays that are borderline (diving catches, strikes and balls, fouls) and to enforce the rules. They aren't there to determine who did the best job. After a game is over, you don't have to wait for the official to give his judgement on who won the game and who lost the game. You just have to look at the scoreboard. When a competition like figure skating or gymnastics is complete, you have to wait on the judges to tell you who won or lost. That puts those events in a different category.
Edited to add: Again, I'm not trying to say that gymnastics, etc. are lesser events. I'm just saying that I can't place them in the same category as other sports, because the athletes themselves don't score the points to win the game.
I forgot to include that sports must require some use of athletic ability. Chess, checkers, poker, etc. would classify as games to me, because they don't require eye hand coordination of any form. They only involve mentally outsmarting your opponent.
NASCAR, bowling, golf, tennis, football, etc. require you to use wits and strength to win the event, and you get to decide the outcome.
Again, it's just a classification system to me. I see only certain things fitting the category of sport. Certain things fit in the category of athletic competition. And other non-athletic competitions are games.
NASCAR, bowling, golf, tennis, football, etc. require you to use wits and strength to win the event, and you get to decide the outcome.
Again, it's just a classification system to me. I see only certain things fitting the category of sport. Certain things fit in the category of athletic competition. And other non-athletic competitions are games.
RebelBruiser said:
You act as if the gymnast have no say in the outcome of a gymnastics event based on having a Judge. I say that's ********. This isn't a beauty pagent. The judges don't say, "oooohh she's pretty, 10" They have guidelines to go by. If a gymnast screws up, then there is a certain % they take off her score for that particular screw up.
I understand all of this coming from Kellum last nite announcing, but I don't see how anyone could go by what the hell he was saying. If there was a bigger word than homer, it would be him. I sat there and watched one of the U.S girls make the same mistake as one of the chinese and he blew off the U.S girls mistake and and cummed in his shorts when the chinese girl made the same mistake. You can't base that the U.S was getting screwed off his opinion.</p>
RebelBruiser said:
</p>DI Football is not a sport. The BCS judges decide who the champion is....
AdamDawgDude said:
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The football games individiually are still very much a sport, but the idea of a national champion is still bogus in my mind for that reason. We've never had a national champion in college football that wasn't decided primarily by opinion polls. The BCS is a step in the right direction, but I still don't think it's enough. That's just my opinion. Sure, the NCAA fields in baseball and basketball are determined by opinion, but the human mistakes involved in those decisions are minimualized significantly by the amount of teams allowed to participate. If football would have a minimum 8 team playoff, then I'd believe in the idea of a national champion in football, because the arguments in favor of the No. 9 team have less merit than the arguments of the No. 3 team.
RebelBruiser said:
</p>I like how you classify chess and checkers as games for lack of athletic ability but put Nascar and bowling in the same category as golf, tennis and football. What Athletic ability do you have to have in Nascar and Bowling? Fat and drunk? Also what wits do you use in Bowling? I mean isn't the point just to knock down all the pins? Doesn't seem very witty to me.
I know bowling and NASCAR don't require the same type of athletic ability as say football, but they do require eye hand coordination. Not just anyone can bowl a 300 game. It takes a certain amount of physical skill to master the ability to consistently bowl well. As for NASCAR, I'm not a big fan of it, but it definitely involves eye hand coordination, reaction time, and many of the other physical skills to be the best. If it was all about the cars, then the driver wouldn't matter. However, it does take reaction time and a physical ability to be able to drive a car as precisely as they do.
And yes, both NASCAR and bowling also require a certain level of mental focus, and your opponent does have the ability to throw you off your game. NASCAR specifically deals with some amount of strategy.
And yes, both NASCAR and bowling also require a certain level of mental focus, and your opponent does have the ability to throw you off your game. NASCAR specifically deals with some amount of strategy.
RebelBruiser said:
</p>Well so does Chess and Checkers. I mean hell you have to look at the board and pick up the right piece and move it to the right spot (eye hand coordination). I mean you can't play chess if you want to move your queen but pick up your king. You have to have the eye hand coordination down to make sure you pick up the right piece. Also, Chess involves strategy and while I know the athletic ability in chess is not as say football athletic ability, but by your standards is a sport. Also in chess, your opponent has the ability to throw you off your game by slapping the buzzer clock really fast to make your time run out quicker, so chess must definitely be a sport, by your standards of course. So nerds, don't let football players pick on you anymore, because you're athletes as well.
muddawgs33 said:
</p>That's awesome. I knew that my Call of Duty 4 skills would qualify my for 'Sportsman of the Year'.
First, I view true sport(s) as a category of competition where a participant's score is NOT based upon the evaluation of a panel of judges.
I then divide "sport(s)" into 2 sub-categories:
1) Those sports where one competitor can, through some action, physically affect the competition's ablity to score... such as baseball, football, basketball, hockey, water polo, etc.
2) those sports which are left over... such as golf, bowling, discus, high jump etc.
Now, understand... athletic ability is a separate issue.
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My opinion is my own. Thus, the word, "my".
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I then divide "sport(s)" into 2 sub-categories:
1) Those sports where one competitor can, through some action, physically affect the competition's ablity to score... such as baseball, football, basketball, hockey, water polo, etc.
2) those sports which are left over... such as golf, bowling, discus, high jump etc.
Now, understand... athletic ability is a separate issue.
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My opinion is my own. Thus, the word, "my".
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and have apparently spent all day trying to back it up. Gymnastics is a sport any way you look at it.
these girls have more athletic ability in their pinkie than any of us will ever have. i think gymnasts and figure skaters do some of the most difficult things in all of sports to do. not like the scoring system is one thing but to diminish the incredible things they do by refusing to call it a sport is asinine.