I thought Cohen did an awesome job

[saltslugs]

of teaching his players that you should always blame everything on the umpires. I mean, did he really need to go out and argue every time a marginally questionable call was made (I believe he argued 5 times in 2 innings and two of those calls seemed obviously correct)? I think that his behavior enforces a woe-is-us mindset and encourages the players to argue as well--leading to an ejection like Parks'.<div>
</div><div>Maybe I'm alone in this thinking...?</div>

 

[saltslugs]

of teaching his players that you should always blame everything on the umpires. I mean, did he really need to go out and argue every time a marginally questionable call was made (I believe he argued 5 times in 2 innings and two of those calls seemed obviously correct)? I think that his behavior enforces a woe-is-us mindset and encourages the players to argue as well--leading to an ejection like Parks'.<div>
</div><div>Maybe I'm alone in this thinking...?</div>

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

..you are alone in that thinking.

 

[drt7891]

Cohen's trips to first and third base every other play were completely justified. Maybe Parks getting out was bang bang, although he looked pretty safe to me, that was kinda close. But on the very next play (Top of the 8th), there is NO WAY Jones beat out that throw, and even if he did, 1) it was much closer than Parks the play before and 2)he was STANDING inside the white line (inside the base path) about 10 feet behind the base while Collins is tagging him, and that ump is still calling him safe. then the 3rd base ump called Johnson out after Mahtook flat out DROPPED the ball in center field. If Cohen did that all the time, that is one thing, but his trips today were completely justified. You are alone.

 

[K9 Avenger]

nt

 

[Todd4State]

What do you want him to do? Just let the umpires *** rape us?

If an umpire makes a bad call- and let's refer to the the three incorrect ones here- yeah, he better be arguing with the umpire. Because if you are a player and your coach doesn't have your back, that sends a much, much, much worse message to your players than your "woe is me" ******** that you just spewed. I mean, seriously.

You know who else used to argue with umpires and had his players backs? Ron Polk. Let's see who else- Bobby Cox. Or was that "woe is me" too?

If you are a coach- you are going to have to argue with umpires. It's a fact of baseball coaching life. You have to protect your players.

The dumbass umpire was the one with the problem- this was a game with a championship on the line. Players are going to be more emotional, as they should be considering all the hard work that they put in. And that's in ANY league above rec and church league. Umpires should know that and usually, they tend to let a little more slide because most of the professional ones- not Tony Walsh- understand that they are not there to decide the outcome. But, when you have an umpire that gets into an arguement and then blows three more calls to show what a big boy he is, that's a problem.

And hell, I'll even touch on the ones that the umpire got right- a lot of times coaches go out there not to argue, but they just want a clarification on a call. Not saying that is or isn't what Cohen was doing, but my point is that coaches have to discuss things with umpires from time to time. It doesn't mean "woe is me".

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

I grew up watching State baseball during the Ricky Joe Redd days. As much as I hate it that Parks threw his helmet, I still liked the intensity. Shows they care and are fighting out there. We haven't seen that in years. As far as Cohen goes, every single visit to the ump was well justified. If you think differently, you didn't see the game.

 

[AROB44]

I know you miss Polkie..</p>

 

[saltslugs]

I've never seen a call overturned and it seems to just encourage poor calls in the future. I understand that fans will get pissed, but it seems the coach should put his anger aside and just try to maximize the odds of winning. Maybe their's something I'm missing.<div>
</div><div>As for the calls, I thought Parks was clearly out and first and deserved to be tossed. The 8th inning call was bad and this is the only call that warranted a Cohen visit since it had a chance of being overturned by another ump. The other call at first wasn't even close--he did not come off the bag. The catch in center was questionable.</div>

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

...waking up a worthless, ******** umpire & making him mad enough to get his mind back in the game.


Plus as has been mentioned, it's a strategy of protecting your players.


You don't know a whole lot about baseball, do you?

 

[drt7891]

Those weren't bang bang calls missed, those were BLATANTLY missed calls by the 1st base ump, and if I were a player, I would be PISSED if my coach just let those calls slide as if nothing happened. The outcome of a game should NEVER come down to a blown call(s). You don't get technicals or flags in baseball, you better believe I'd be out there arguing for my players if an ump was blowing calls like that.

 

[saltslugs]

<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">"But, when you have an umpire that gets into an arguement and then blows three more calls to show what a big boy he is, that's a problem.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">"</span><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">Yeah that's a big 17ing problem because you (Cohen) encouraged him to "show what a big boy he is" by arguing with a call that was correct. This is exactly why he shouldn't argue 5 times in 2 innings. </span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">
</span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">Yes, you have to stand up for your players, but I thought it was excessive. Obviously I'm alone in this thinking and I accept that.</span></font></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">
</span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">
</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">
</span></font></div>

 

[saltslugs]

Those were not blatantly missed calls, except for the rounding first botch. I would love to see a decent replay if anyone has one.<div>
</div>

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

Your argument is worse that our coach arguing.

 

[drt7891]

I guess my definition of blatant must be flawed, then...

 

[SnakePlissken]

<div><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; border-collapse: collapse; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;" class="Apple-style-span">by arguing with a call that was correct.</span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px; border-collapse: collapse; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px; border-collapse: collapse; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;" class="Apple-style-span">

</span></font></div>

There was no correct call....close maybe but incorrect none the less

 

[saltslugs]

then I am indeed, dead wrong. Perhaps that is really the heart of the "argument." If I thought they were all bad calls I would endorse Cohen's meetings.

 

[Todd4State]

You go into a game with the understanding that the umpires will act professional. If an umpire behaves the way Tony Walsh did today, he should not umpire, and the SEC should not allow him to do games. He should be fined, and if this was MLB, he would be fined and possibly even be sent back to AAA. And if I was Cohen you better damn well believe that the SEC would be hearing from me and getting a video sent.

Umpires are supposed to understand when they get into umpiring that there are going to be disagreements. It's part of the territory. It would be like me going to boot camp and being surprised that my drill instructor yelled at me from time to time. They should know what they are getting themselves into from the start.

And every single good umpire prides themselves on being right- or as close to right as possible. A lot of them hurt when they blow a call. That's how seriously they take it. Remember Jim Joyce from the Armando Gallaraga one hitter last year? But apparently not Tony Walsh. Just absolutely disgusting what he did out there.

 

[saltslugs]

nm

 

[Todd4State]

the outfielder/fielder has to be able to catch the ball and transfer it to his throwing hand. Mahtook did not do that.

 

[saltslugs]

That's the disagreement here--I thought two were probably correct.<div>
</div><div>Maybe Cohen should have been ejected or the home umpire should have stopped it earlier. The last two innings barely felt like baseball.</div>

 

[drt7891]

He did not do that. The ball dropped out of his glove which means he did not control it. That is blatant.

 

[drt7891]

Jones' call was MUCH closer than Parks and he called Jones safe and Parks out. Then all the mess afterwards with Collins and Jones and Walsh was just showing how much of a jackass he is.

 

[Todd4State]

the arguement is whether Cohen should argue with umpires and if that causes a "woe is me attitude". And everyone disagrees with you.

As far as the calls- it doesn't matter. Two were close, but I think the umpire was wrong. If I'm wrong, so be it. Anyone that ever goes with me to a baseball game knows that I'm very impartial and I actually side with the umpire more times than now. I know two were blatantly wrong and done out of what appears to be spite. Parks got ejected- and when a player is even close to be ejected, the coach HAS to go out to protect the player whether the call was right or not. As a coach you can't let a player get ejected and just sit there. If Cohen didn't go out there, Parks might have punched the umpire out and probably would have gotten suspended for the entire postseason. Believe me, there is a method to this. And coaches, players, and umpires all know what's going on.

If Cohen thinks that a call didn't go our way and wants to question it- whether the call was right or wrong- that's his right. Like I said, if he didn't argue, it would send a much worse message.

 

[rynodawg]

I was fortunate enough to be able to watch this game on justin.tv. I'm not an expert at all,what Ido know is fromprofessional umping school years ago. My military obligations make it impossible to work games nowadays.

All the disputed calls were close and judgement calls.

- Parks play at first: He looked safe on replay, but its difficult to judge when the runner slides head first like that. The ump is watching the bag and is looking/listening for the foot to hit the bag and listening for the ball to hit the glove. Sliding makes it difficult to judge, and more often than not will get the runner called out on all levels. As Steve Stone used to say on Cubs broadcasts, 'if sliding got you there any quicker, you would see olympic sprinters diving at the finish line." If Parks just runs it out he's likely safe.

- Jacoby Jones overrun: I would have argued it too as a fan, but the 1B ump was actually right on this one. <font size="2" face="TimesNewRomanPSMT"><font size="2" face="TimesNewRomanPSMT">"The runner is out when: b. After reaching first base safely, the runner leaves the baseline in an obvious move to continue an attempt to advance to the next base and is tagged;" The runner doesn't have to curl off to foul territory, he can curl into fair territoryeverytime as long as he doesn't attempt to run towards second.Jones ended up in fair territory because he was trying to avoid the tag and followed that up with an unnecessary 360 degree spin which put him off the typical baserunner route. On the way back to first, he stopped momentarily and crouched into a ready position becausehe thought the throw was overthrown. But did he take a single step towards second at that point? Nope.

- Dropped pop-up : Very close, I don't think he had control. The ump wentwith the 'easy call'. </font></font>

 

[AssEndDawg]

You didn't actually attend the game did you? You were watching it on TV?

If you had been in the stands with the rest of us you would have noticed a lot of little things that were building up. The refs sucked the whole weekend. The guy behind the plate today had the most inconsistent strike zone I have seen in a while. The first base ump just wasn't paying attention. It's not just "was the call good or bad" it was a lot that the damn ump obviously had no clue what the call was and they were all going in favor of LSU.

Cohen was defending his guys, trying to wake the damn umps up, and trying to keep all the fans into the game. He was doing his job. Your argument makes it seem like you don't understand baseball very well.

 

[KurtRambis4]

we have some morons on here. From people saying we don't deserved to be in the SEC tourney, to this. Holy ****. Why don't you people become fans of Jackson State or something?

 

[SnakePlissken]

If you had been in the stands with the rest of us you would have noticed a lot of little things that were building up. The refs sucked the whole weekend. fans into the game.

This crew were like the damn keystone cops and truly show how bad SEC baseball officiating has gotten over the last few years

 

[War Machine Dawg]

[No message]

 

[saltslugs]

Prepared to be a called an idiot.<div>
</div><div>Either you completely agree or are called an idiot. You had a good run.</div><div>
</div><div>(And by the way, there was one more disputed call that should not have been disputed at all)</div>

 

[saltslugs]

He did appear to drop it before the transfer, but it was in the motion of transferring. But, taking the rule literally, you must transfer the ball for an out in any situation, which we know does not occur. Nonetheless, I think the "safe" call was probably the right call to make in that situation. Give us a break.<div>
</div><div>But, you have to admit that I made a pretty good argument for not challenging the call. You (paraphrasing) said that the ump made bad calls to prove that he was in control after we challenged a call. Just don't challenge the call and this won't happen!</div><div>
</div><div>Either the ump didn't care about the challenge (making the challenge worthless or at best a positive sign to his players) or the arguing caused more bad calls. There is no positive.</div>

 

[drt7891]

How many times have you seen Mullen run down the officials to question a call? I've seen him go livid several times. As players, and as fans, you expect the coach to have the teams back no matter what, and who knows, maybe Cohen was completely being nice to the ump and saying he was right while giving the appearance of arguing a call (although in this instance, it probably wasn't the case). Believe it or not, that kind of thing does happen. Cohen has been ejected only once or twice this year for arguing calls, hell, Cohen hasn't even begun to touch Polk in the number of times he has been tossed. But for a player to be playing as hard as he can be and an umpire, maybe not blatantly missing calls, but certainly being inconsistent close calls, as a player and as a fan, I expect the coach to go out and at least APPEAR (although, again, this probably wasn't the case) to stand up for his players. Just like Todd said, just letting calls slide and being nice and saying "well, the umpire doesn't make mistakes. He is right. I better not argue so I don't show a 'woe-is-me' attitude" would come across more as a woe is me attitude than going out there and arguing or asking clarity for a call because it shows the coach doesn't want to stand up and hold an official accountable for laziness or inconsistencies. Ground rules makeamends for questioning balls and strikes, and coaches will get tossed for questioning those, no questions asked. But usually, umpires will listen, so long as the coach is respectful, to questions about judgement calls, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. <div>
</div><div>*EDIT* To give a little bit of validity to your argument, Cohen was not out there just to be out there arguing a call. Sometimes, it is necessary for a coach to stay in the dugout. But any umpire that wasn't that first base umpire yesterday knows that, especially in a game where a lot is on the line for both teams, they should not be the ones that decide the outcome of the game. I usually don't question umpires judgement calls because they have the best perspective, and honestly, Cohen doesn't run out there on every close call. But Walsh was all over the place making calls. Had he called every close call at first base out, so be it, at least he is consistent. Same thing if he called them all safe. Cohen probably wouldn't have been out there if that was the case. But Cohen's argument was legitimate because Walsh was all over the place and it usually favored LSU and had he have just let those calls slide by the wayside and say to himself "well, it wont be overturned, i might as well just stay here." THAT is a "woe-is-me" attitude. </div><div>
</div><div>Rant over.</div>

 

[saltslugs]

and understand baseball.

 

[missouridawg]

You should think about that quote long and hard.

 

[saltslugs]

I can just as easily tell you the same thing.<div>
</div><div>I totally understand that my opinion on this subject is not popular. There is a problem with this board in that that whenever you go against the grain you get bashed so the vast majority of disagreements are started by idiots who are too stupid to care that they are going to be crushed. But, I'm not one of these idiots. </div><div>
</div><div>I'm shocked that questioning the number of umpire meetings is met with such hostility. </div>

 

[KurtRambis4]

saltslugs[/b]]<div>I'm shocked that questioning the number of umpire meetings is met with such hostility. </div>

because you are essentially saying Cohen is and dubmass for taking up for his team, which is stupid.

 

[hatfieldms]

....as the genius saltslug has and just completely quit arguing calls. You are definitely ahead of the curve