If a UK player was to take a knee during the National Anthem...
- Thread starter BigSexyCat
- Start date
I think I get the jest of the state of things in America---Down with Whitey and the institutional symbols of Whiteness in America! Y'all should be ashamed to be White. If you're not ashamed, you don't understand and have no basis for an opinion on the matter.
Got it!
Got it!
Being former military, I understand the significance of pride the anthem purports on us. Having said that, we defend not only the United States, but also the ideas of the US. The freedoms of ALL people are sacred. No one person's rights are more important than another.
The right to protest is fundamental. I like to keep in mind that this great country was founded by protest.
We may not agree with the purpose of the protest, but it is our right.
Oppressed is probably not the right adjective... that said, the poor white living in Appalachia can leave Appalachia and be treated like every other person that looks and acts like they do. Blacks are black regardless of where they live or the education they obtain. You can escape Appalachia, you can't escape your race.
No, I think that what you want to believe.
The protest isn't against white America. It's against what is viewed as unjustified uses of deadly force by police who then whitewash and/or falsify police reports to give justification for that use of deadly force that largely go unpunished. Those police officers aren't all white.
If white America sees a video of a black man who is stopped by police for a traffic violation...and that man then runs from police and the police shoot him in the back...and you don't see anything wrong with that situation...
Blacks have been saying that this has occurred in their neighborhoods for decades and nobody believed it because most of us see the police for the good and had never witnessed anything of the sort so we dismissed the claims. Now we have video cameras everywhere that capture these events.
You don't have to agree with the way someone protests but if you have half a brain you have to admit that there is an issue. It's a very complicated issue, but it is an issue none the less. Bringing light to those issues and furthering the discussion is the purpose of the protests.
I suppose it was only a matter of time before this popped up...i typically like to leave this sort of thing out of cooler talk...but oh well, here it goes...
I've never been a big fan of protest only.
If you got a beef, sure speak up, but you better have real solutions in mind and act on them.
The singular act of kneeling, or raising a fist, or stomping your feet in the street and holding up traffic really does nothing but further divide the country.
If you want to kneel and then go do something proactive as opposed to settling for a popular reactive behavior, then I can appreciate that.
Don't talk about the system and then do nothing. Don't point a finger at one set of imperfections in one area and not be open to the fact that there are things that can be fixed on your side as well.
Sure, many measures can be taken by the government. Such as a revamping of the police training, and the qualifications it requires to actually become a cop.
I would like to say that blacks are not the only people who have to deal with over zealous and improperly trained cops. I think that is very important in this whole issue. I've witnessed with my own eyes on multiple occasions cops using unnecessary force for situations that do not call for it. All involving white people. But I digress...back to the discussion...
Things can be done on the other side of the coin. Just like you can demand change from police, the government, white people in general, you can demand change from the things that need fixing in the black community.
Drugs, illiteracy, school attendance, violent/gang culture, fatherless homes, the "don't snitch" philosophy that encourages not cooperating with police, the reverence for and close association with the hip hop/rap culture that promotes all the reckless behaviors that perpetuate the cycle.
As well, there needs to be a stronger focus on sexual health education in schools in urban areas to help with irresponsible sexual encounters that lead to babies being born into unstable homes.
All these things need to be addressed by the black community. Improvements made in those areas will lead in an overall better quality of life for all.
Cops can be trained better. Policies can be set to promote more inclusion and punish discrimination. Those things will help, but they will do nothing for the kid who skips class, gets involved in reckless behavior, starts smoking dope at an early age. They will do nothing for the young lady who dropped out, doesn't have a stable job, has 4 kids with 3 fathers before she turns 30, nor the young men who have to support those kids.
Start bulldozing some ball fields and concrete courts and instead build some libraries, activity and enrichment centers, vocational schools, junior colleges.
Long story short, promote much needed change on all sides.
I've never been a big fan of protest only.
If you got a beef, sure speak up, but you better have real solutions in mind and act on them.
The singular act of kneeling, or raising a fist, or stomping your feet in the street and holding up traffic really does nothing but further divide the country.
If you want to kneel and then go do something proactive as opposed to settling for a popular reactive behavior, then I can appreciate that.
Don't talk about the system and then do nothing. Don't point a finger at one set of imperfections in one area and not be open to the fact that there are things that can be fixed on your side as well.
Sure, many measures can be taken by the government. Such as a revamping of the police training, and the qualifications it requires to actually become a cop.
I would like to say that blacks are not the only people who have to deal with over zealous and improperly trained cops. I think that is very important in this whole issue. I've witnessed with my own eyes on multiple occasions cops using unnecessary force for situations that do not call for it. All involving white people. But I digress...back to the discussion...
Things can be done on the other side of the coin. Just like you can demand change from police, the government, white people in general, you can demand change from the things that need fixing in the black community.
Drugs, illiteracy, school attendance, violent/gang culture, fatherless homes, the "don't snitch" philosophy that encourages not cooperating with police, the reverence for and close association with the hip hop/rap culture that promotes all the reckless behaviors that perpetuate the cycle.
As well, there needs to be a stronger focus on sexual health education in schools in urban areas to help with irresponsible sexual encounters that lead to babies being born into unstable homes.
All these things need to be addressed by the black community. Improvements made in those areas will lead in an overall better quality of life for all.
Cops can be trained better. Policies can be set to promote more inclusion and punish discrimination. Those things will help, but they will do nothing for the kid who skips class, gets involved in reckless behavior, starts smoking dope at an early age. They will do nothing for the young lady who dropped out, doesn't have a stable job, has 4 kids with 3 fathers before she turns 30, nor the young men who have to support those kids.
Start bulldozing some ball fields and concrete courts and instead build some libraries, activity and enrichment centers, vocational schools, junior colleges.
Long story short, promote much needed change on all sides.
The networks can't even be bothered to broadcast the anthem unless it's a special game. Why do they get a pass? Do TV networks not support the troops or what the anthem represents?
You honestly think that a person from Appalachia with their dialect and grammar (mostly) can go to anywhere and not be treated differently in job interviews and daily interactions? Blacks can leave their situation as easily as whites in Appalachia. You have two groups in both situations (blacks and Appalachia): one group who does leave and try to better their life and another group that stays in the same situation and continues to suck the teat of the government and expect handouts creating a system of livelihood for themselves and their future generation.
I wonder how many fans in the stands have joined in and are now sitting or kneeling during the anthem. I am more interested in them going back and panning the crowd prior to to protest to see how many are sitting, texting, tweeting, eating, talking...etc.
What do you guys think about the high schools changing the lyrics? Our high schools here change the last word from "brave" to their mascot. Home of the *WILDCATS...
What do you guys think about the high schools changing the lyrics? Our high schools here change the last word from "brave" to their mascot. Home of the *WILDCATS...
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No one says he doesn't have the right to do it though.
Its widely acknowledged that he has the right to do it. We also have the right to call him a dumbass for doing it. Thats the great thing about America. People can protest, and people can criticize it.
Kaepernick has donated $1million of his salary plus the revenue from his jersey sales to help communities in need. So he is doing more than just protesting.
There are problems that come with poverty and those problems are pretty universal across racial profiles.
One man is going to be limited as to what he can do, it requires societal changes. Protests bring attention to issues and shines light on problems. More eyeballs on those problems present more ideas and more people who are willing and able to do the things you mention that make a real difference in the lives of the people affected.
I would say that instead of protesting, which causes even more divisiveness, I'd encourage them to take their millions of dollars (the NFL players) and create some community events that include blacks, hispanics, whites, police officers, etc. and create a culture of unity. Protesting it won't do a darn thingpositive, but if you take positive action in trying to help what you think is the problem, that would be better IMO.
As a combat vet. from many yrs ago, they have the right to do that , but these NFL guys are paid millions and they are talking about oppression they do not know what that means, I will not support the NFL in watching games or for sure going to a game..
Few will hear what I'm about to say and even less will agree.The hypocrisy is in full effect.
I have but a few points to make . First , when you're at home or at your favorite bar and the game comes on. When they play the National Anthem how many of you stand ?
Depending on where you get your numbers from but it is said that around 300,000 and up died during the Civil War. Americans killing Americans .So the Confederate flag is a treasonous symbol and icon which people wear and has flown over a state capital.
A man that says he loves this country and kneels now instead of sittting. Said that he would kneel to in order to not disrespect the servicemen. It's about injustice and fairness ...it just so happens that the killing of unarmed citizens tend to be of a certain race.
I have but a few points to make . First , when you're at home or at your favorite bar and the game comes on. When they play the National Anthem how many of you stand ?
Depending on where you get your numbers from but it is said that around 300,000 and up died during the Civil War. Americans killing Americans .So the Confederate flag is a treasonous symbol and icon which people wear and has flown over a state capital.
A man that says he loves this country and kneels now instead of sittting. Said that he would kneel to in order to not disrespect the servicemen. It's about injustice and fairness ...it just so happens that the killing of unarmed citizens tend to be of a certain race.
Personally I think he is an assclown. Per this Washington post article(https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ce-shootings-and-race/?utm_term=.f95a95191bfb) it seems that more whites and Hispanics are shot by police than blacks and blacks kill more cops than others. I guess the number of black on black homicides is not a politically charged enough to topic to draw interest. But whatever these protesting clowns choose
What about all the TV networks that can't even be bothered to broadcast the anthem? Will you continue to watch their content?
I my question is what makes him dumb for doing it.
Protesting always works if the result is to bring attention to a subject. Those of that remember the Tiananmen Square protest with 1 person against a line of tanks. And yes the protestors should have an end game concept.
What do the protestors want, what is the end result in their mind, how can it be achieved. Without this a protest is merely a look at me opportunity.
They have a right to protest. Period. They are not hurting anyone or causing a disturbance. The only un-American people in this piece are those who think it is their place to tell other people they cannot express their political views in a manner that is not harming anyone, or even inconveniencing anyone. All that is being said really is, "I don't like your message, and therefore, I don't think you should be allowed to express it." Too bad. We are all entitled to our agendas, even the Glenn Becks of the world... unfortunately.
Kind of like what Cousins is doing. If you want to change things for the better there are ways to do it. Kaepernick is doing so in a way that insults people. This will do nothing but drive wedges, it's not bringing attention to issues.
Speaking of the above, WTF is up with the NFL and it's misguided priorities. The NFL bans players honoring 911 victims but allows Kaepernick to wear socks calling cops pigs?
You don't think the protests of the Civil Rights era had a positive result? That the anti-war protest during Vietnam helped end that war?
Protest movements usually go one way or the other. They have merit so they grow, gain support and create change...or they fizzle out. Those that have merit eventually people quit talking about the protest and the protesters and start to address the issue. There are many NFL, NBA, MLB players who use their celebrity and money to make positive change. They have the means, position and clout to do so. But what percentage of the people does that describe?
And you don't think that they and others have been doing those things for decades? (they have)
I would say the fact that you are talking about it is a positive outcome. It opens dialogue and that discussion hopefully leads to better understanding.
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The NFL has a dress code that was collectively bargained with the player's union. That code addresses hats worn on the sidelines, shoes, jerseys, face paint, pretty much everything...it doesn't address socks. Perhaps the next agreement will do so. The NBA requires that all players stand and face the flag during the national anthem. Maybe the NFL will seek that too.
The NFL certainly doesn't ban players from honoring 9/11 victims. Every NFL team did so on 9/11. It might fine them if their avenue for honoring them violates the league dress code.
Kudos to Kaepernick for finding a way to get his message across that didn't cost him any money.
BTW, the NFL did not fine AW for the shoes. (the article says "not expected"...the NFL won't announce that they are not doing something...they just won't do it.)
If this message board is this divided over the issue, then you have to wonder what the locker rooms of these teams are like.
...I would say it would be too effing early in the game for the victory formation. Some may disagree with me
It's also a coach's right to run his arse ragged during practice.
Here's an idea, Instead of protesting by acting in such a juvenile manner, why not do something constructive to make changes. When I see a player acting in the manner some nfl prima donnas are acting, it does absolutely NOTHING to endear me to their position. In fact, such actions make me feel ANTAGONISTIC toward them and their cause.
So why disrespect the flag? 99% of people who are shot by the police are shot by city police officers. What in the hell does that have to do with the federal government?
Please tell me the specifics about police shooting people in the back while they are running from them.
Oh not to burst your bubble, but shooting someone in the back can certainly be totally justified.
HYPO: Bad guy Bart walks into a bank and shoots 3 people during the robbery with his Glock 9mm. Bart exits the Bank with his gun down by his side. Policeman Pete sees Bart and says stop Bart. Policeman Paul says, "comply and don't die." Bart takes off running the opposite direction.
Guest what happens? Policeman Pete and Policeman Paul put multiple rounds in Bart's back. Bart's dead and your elderly aunt Angeline walking around the corner isn't run over by dumb *** Bart and doesn't break her hip.
Remember this?
Your "HYPO" involves a case where an armed man who has already shot 3 people is running. The video above involves a man who was stopped for a broken tail light. See the difference? Other videos exist of men who were stopped on traffic offences and shot when they drove or attempted to drive away. Stopped for a missing front license plate. The office claiming that they attempted to "run them over". Unless the car can move 90 degrees to the left or right...that would be a good trick.
Do you believe in free speech or not?
Nobody has to explain to you or me their form of protest as long as that protest is legal.
The flag is a symbol and it stands for many things to many different people. One of those things is the right to protest against the things you think need to be changed.
Colin Kaperdick and all of the others like him can kiss my white behind. How dare these over paid athletes, over pampered, over hyped disrespect the country and the flag that I served honorably and proudly for over 20 years. There is not a MAN in the whole bunch. How many of these athletes have worn a military uniform? Not a damn one of them. These players are not HERO's, they are bunch of wannabes and used to be's. Some of them are nothing more than a bunch of cowards and a group of never was. Raising your black fist on 9/11. If there clowns don't want to be in this country, I can name 120 others they can move to. I agree with what Tony LaRussa said, it would not happen on my team. Now back to the question, I would disown the University if I ever saw or heard a UK player being so disrespectful to our country.
This past 9/11 I saw 7 and 8 year old kids doing it at a pee wee football game. These kids have no clue why they are doing it. Their parents or their favorite player is doing it, or it's all over the news. These protestors can have their stage, but maybe they should also look who is watching them.
When I stand for the national anthem I think of Sgt. Dennis Vance, a high school friend who died in Vietnam. Lt. Benjamin Hall, a friend of my oldest son,who was killed in southeastern Afghanistan. My thoughts are of my uncles who fought in WWII....Gilbert in the Marines. Cecil, seriously wounded in Italy. Frank in the Army Air Force in England, Prentiss in the navy in the Pacific, and Palmer in the Army in Europe. Countless young men and women serving at overseas posts, away from the safety and security we take for granted. Millions of men and women have made sacrifices that enable all on this message board to engage in a debate without fear of reprisal.
That's why I stand for the national anthem.
That's why I stand for the national anthem.
He has millions of dollars and hes protesting an anthem that has nothing to do with race.
Do you believe black on black shooting deaths is an issue or not? My guess is that you don't and if you were pressed, you'd say it's white people's fault it exists in the first place.
"oppression" and "strife" hits ALL OF US YOU BAITING SOBS. Not just some of us.
This is a bogus question......Because the teams are not on the field at Commonwealth when the National Anthem is played!!!!
He is not protesting the National Anthem. He is protesting the racial inequality in the United States.
He is protesting during the National Anthem because that is when the media will discuss it.