If Brandon Maye transfers to us, can he play this year?
- Thread starter bonedaddy401
- Start date
It's the Masoli clause. If he enrolls in a postgrad program here that wasn't available at Clemson, he is eligible right away.
he would be a huge addition. Guy has 33 starts under his belt.<div>
</div><div>I have to ask: Assuming he comes to State, who would have the bigger impact for Mississippi State this year; C.J. Johnson or Brandon Maye?</div><div>
</div><div>A guy who is a top prospect with big time upside from our backyard or a proven guy who has played multiple years of big time D-1 football who may have reached hisceilingor is close to it?</div>
</div><div>I have to ask: Assuming he comes to State, who would have the bigger impact for Mississippi State this year; C.J. Johnson or Brandon Maye?</div><div>
</div><div>A guy who is a top prospect with big time upside from our backyard or a proven guy who has played multiple years of big time D-1 football who may have reached hisceilingor is close to it?</div>
Very rarely do you see a freshman make a big impact at linebacker. Even when you do, there are still plenty of Freshman mistakes. It still would have been nice to have them both. Next year's LB class doesn't look too promising.</p>
...but there are possibilities:
http://www.grad.msstate.edu/prospective/programs/
http://www.grad.clemson.edu/programs/contacts.php
My guess is one of the education programs if he does transfer here...
http://www.grad.msstate.edu/prospective/programs/
http://www.grad.clemson.edu/programs/contacts.php
My guess is one of the education programs if he does transfer here...
Patrick Willis didn't even play a whole lot as a true freshman. I don't think Culberson was even a LB as a true frosh.
DT Shackelford was a pretty good true freshman for us. He played as a back up though. I don't think KJ Wright played much at all as a true freshman. He may have even redshirted. Can't remember.
So yea, 5th year senior is usually better than true freshman. If you're having to rely on true freshmen at a position, most of the time you're going to struggle at that spot.
DT Shackelford was a pretty good true freshman for us. He played as a back up though. I don't think KJ Wright played much at all as a true freshman. He may have even redshirted. Can't remember.
So yea, 5th year senior is usually better than true freshman. If you're having to rely on true freshmen at a position, most of the time you're going to struggle at that spot.
Just pointing that out, even though apparently that was morally wrong to so many people on here about 9 or 10 months ago.
It doesn't matter the circumstances. The loophole is used the majority of the time strictly for a player to be able to transfer and PLAY immediately, not because he wants some graduate degree program.
As I said last year with the Masoli case, if you want to make it legitimate, tell the player that they have the right to transfer and sit out for their 5th year, make them sit out that year as a transfer student, and grant them a 6th year to be able to use their final year of eligibility. Most graduate programs are 2 year programs anyway, so having a guy sit the first year wouldn't hurt.
I seem to remember a lot of protest from this board about Masoli's intention not truly being for academic pursuit. I say if the loophole is there, use it no matter where you're transferring to. In other words, I have no problem with the guy using this rule and spending a year at MSU "pretending" to study education or whatever grad program he has to use to exploit the rule. Being a homer is changing your stance on something like that based on where a particular player is going to school.
It doesn't matter the circumstances. The loophole is used the majority of the time strictly for a player to be able to transfer and PLAY immediately, not because he wants some graduate degree program.
As I said last year with the Masoli case, if you want to make it legitimate, tell the player that they have the right to transfer and sit out for their 5th year, make them sit out that year as a transfer student, and grant them a 6th year to be able to use their final year of eligibility. Most graduate programs are 2 year programs anyway, so having a guy sit the first year wouldn't hurt.
I seem to remember a lot of protest from this board about Masoli's intention not truly being for academic pursuit. I say if the loophole is there, use it no matter where you're transferring to. In other words, I have no problem with the guy using this rule and spending a year at MSU "pretending" to study education or whatever grad program he has to use to exploit the rule. Being a homer is changing your stance on something like that based on where a particular player is going to school.
Maye announced his plans to transfer at the beginning of the spring semester and never enrolled in a graduate program at Clemson. Masoli was already enrolled in the graduate program at Oregon and didn't decide to transfer until May when he was kicked off the team. </p>
and yall fought to have him on your team. Him majoring in something asridiculouslylaughableas Parks & Rec just made it that much moreshameless.<div>
</div><div>How do you know he hasn't narrowed it down to Kentucky and us because we DO offer him a major he couldn't pursue at Clemson? You don't don't. His main motivationprobablyis football. Heprobablyis takingadvantageof the loophole to do so but you don't know anydifferent. That stilldoesn'tstop you from blindly lumping Brandon Maye, a two time First Team All - ACC Academic, with arepeatoffender like Masoli.</div><div>
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</div><div>How do you know he hasn't narrowed it down to Kentucky and us because we DO offer him a major he couldn't pursue at Clemson? You don't don't. His main motivationprobablyis football. Heprobablyis takingadvantageof the loophole to do so but you don't know anydifferent. That stilldoesn'tstop you from blindly lumping Brandon Maye, a two time First Team All - ACC Academic, with arepeatoffender like Masoli.</div><div>
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but as I said, I still remember a lot of gnashing of teeth about the lack of a player's desire to really pursue a specific degree.
Point is, the majority of players using the rule look for the school first, the major second. I doubt this case is any different, but you'll have fans be homers about it and pretend he's seeking a specific degree.
That's fine. I realize Masoli's case was an extreme one, but I doubt his motivation for transferring (football not school) was a whole lot different. I think we can agree on that.
And as I said in a previous post, make the rule where the player has to sit out a year, but grant him the 2nd redshirt year to be able to use his 4th year of eligibility after sitting out. That would weed out the people transferring strictly for football and narrow it down to players specifically needing to transfer for degree purposes, which I assume would be a very small number.
Point is, the majority of players using the rule look for the school first, the major second. I doubt this case is any different, but you'll have fans be homers about it and pretend he's seeking a specific degree.
That's fine. I realize Masoli's case was an extreme one, but I doubt his motivation for transferring (football not school) was a whole lot different. I think we can agree on that.
And as I said in a previous post, make the rule where the player has to sit out a year, but grant him the 2nd redshirt year to be able to use his 4th year of eligibility after sitting out. That would weed out the people transferring strictly for football and narrow it down to players specifically needing to transfer for degree purposes, which I assume would be a very small number.
The other stuff just gave you reasons to disguise your true protests.
Your fans didn't seem to mind Renardo Sidney and his baggage coming to MSU, despite the fact that many of you openly admitted he was likely hoping to be a one and done (in other words, not at all concerned with school). The education, his family, his past, none of that mattered if he could come in and hopefully combine with Varnado to get you to a Final Four.
I just wish the majority of fans would drop the moral high ground card and admit that they're slaves to wins. I've done it. It's not that hard.
Your fans didn't seem to mind Renardo Sidney and his baggage coming to MSU, despite the fact that many of you openly admitted he was likely hoping to be a one and done (in other words, not at all concerned with school). The education, his family, his past, none of that mattered if he could come in and hopefully combine with Varnado to get you to a Final Four.
I just wish the majority of fans would drop the moral high ground card and admit that they're slaves to wins. I've done it. It's not that hard.
Masoli HAD totransferbecause he was kicked off the team. Maye has CHOSEN to transfer. The defense he was playing in for 3 years is going to change his senior year.<div>
</div><div>You are the homer fan if you don't see thedifference.</div>
</div><div>You are the homer fan if you don't see thedifference.</div>
bonedaddy401 said:
I admitted the difference, and you just admitted that Maye's reasons for transferring are for football, not academics, which was my original point.
That's fine. It's within the rules to do that, but regardless of his reasons, he's not using the rule for the reason that it was intended, which was apparently a lot of the protest with Masoli. Masoli's case was just a lot more blatant, because he didn't have a choice.
I told you in my other post that the real reason for the protests from MSU fans on this board were because Masoli was a good football player that had a chance to make us better. Had he been a back up defensive back, there wouldn't have been much chatter about it. Just admit that all you care about is winning, and quit faking the moral high ground stuff. It's not about education.
You're delusional if you think that our disgust was anything more than you bending the rules of the system to get a 3-time convict that was kicked off of his previous team for multiple criminal infractions. What crime did Renardo commit?
patdog said:
Point is, your fans didn't care what his past was or how he landed at MSU. All you cared about was that you thought he could be a key part in taking you from a team that could just barely make the NCAA to a team that could win the SEC and make a deep NCAA run.
You didn't care whether he was going to be a student athlete or not. You didn't care that Tim freaking Floyd had to back off recruiting him. You didn't care what kind of benefits he'd received in his past or who his handlers were. You just wanted wins.
But yet, some fans still have to pretend to have some sort of moral superiority. You've signed players who have had criminal records and will sign plenty in the future, but I'm sure to the homers, it'll be different in some fashion.
and basketball players are one and done all the time. It's rare that felons transfer from one school after being suspended to another to "work towards" a sham degree.
What don't you get about that?<div>
</div><div>Were there some people upset that Ole Miss was abusing the loophole? Sure. The vast majority of the head shaking and mockery came yalls way because he was aconvictedcriminal. Maye isn't. There is adifferencein the two. Thats my point.</div>
</div><div>Were there some people upset that Ole Miss was abusing the loophole? Sure. The vast majority of the head shaking and mockery came yalls way because he was aconvictedcriminal. Maye isn't. There is adifferencein the two. Thats my point.</div>
Exactly. His motivation to transferstems from football.Which is all Bruiser was saying.Of courseMasoli's and Maye's situations are different.Butstill, both of them changed/are changing schools for football related reasons.The loophole is there. It is what it is.bonedaddy401 said:
As far as the convicted criminal and character ********.....I could care less. I let the Spirit Boarders and Gene's Pagers argue over which team has the most upstanding choir boys. SEC footballrosters are just chocked full of fineupstanding young men.
I said there were differences.
If you don't like the exploitation of the grad school transfer rule (which this is as you admitted), you don't like it when your school has a player do it. If you don't like schools recruiting shady characters, you don't like it when your school does it. If you don't like schools signing players with criminal histories, you don't like it when your school does it. Take a stance one way or the other and look at every situation the same. I did.
If you're a homer, the bending or breaking of rules or the living in the gray areas on certain rules only bother you when someone else does it. When your school does it or when one of your players does it, it's justified.
ETA: I'll clarify my stances for you, if you are in question.
1. I don't mind players exploiting the transfer rules. If the loophole is there and they can use it, it's up to the NCAA to close the loophole if they don't like it. I take that stance really with every NCAA loophole whether I think it's morally, a gray area, or whatever else. The best coaches are the ones that live in the gray and find ways to exploit the rules.
2. I also don't mind my team taking on criminals, miscreants, characters with shady pasts, etc. as long as it is done with some concern for the rules, and as long as it is done sparingly enough that team chemistry and other issues don't arise because of it.
3. I don't mind and actually hope that my school lives in the gray area when it comes to recruiting. If it's cheating done at a level that is deemed the norm, then I am all for it, because I realize that it's a necessity with the way the game is played.
4. I don't care about what a player chooses to do with his education. If a player chooses to use his scholarship to pursue a degree to benefit him when he gets out of college, good for him. If a player chooses to take the BS courses and pass just enough to stay eligible but not get a degree fine. The only thing I care is that they stay eligible and don't hurt the APR.
5. Ultimately I care about winning and doing so in the gray areas as necessary.
I hope that clarifies my general stance. I think most fans align with my thoughts, but only a handful are actually willing to admit it even to themselves. That's why you get justifications in those areas from fans when it's THEIR player, but chastising of the practices when it's a rival's player. You won't hear that from me.
If you don't like the exploitation of the grad school transfer rule (which this is as you admitted), you don't like it when your school has a player do it. If you don't like schools recruiting shady characters, you don't like it when your school does it. If you don't like schools signing players with criminal histories, you don't like it when your school does it. Take a stance one way or the other and look at every situation the same. I did.
If you're a homer, the bending or breaking of rules or the living in the gray areas on certain rules only bother you when someone else does it. When your school does it or when one of your players does it, it's justified.
ETA: I'll clarify my stances for you, if you are in question.
1. I don't mind players exploiting the transfer rules. If the loophole is there and they can use it, it's up to the NCAA to close the loophole if they don't like it. I take that stance really with every NCAA loophole whether I think it's morally, a gray area, or whatever else. The best coaches are the ones that live in the gray and find ways to exploit the rules.
2. I also don't mind my team taking on criminals, miscreants, characters with shady pasts, etc. as long as it is done with some concern for the rules, and as long as it is done sparingly enough that team chemistry and other issues don't arise because of it.
3. I don't mind and actually hope that my school lives in the gray area when it comes to recruiting. If it's cheating done at a level that is deemed the norm, then I am all for it, because I realize that it's a necessity with the way the game is played.
4. I don't care about what a player chooses to do with his education. If a player chooses to use his scholarship to pursue a degree to benefit him when he gets out of college, good for him. If a player chooses to take the BS courses and pass just enough to stay eligible but not get a degree fine. The only thing I care is that they stay eligible and don't hurt the APR.
5. Ultimately I care about winning and doing so in the gray areas as necessary.
I hope that clarifies my general stance. I think most fans align with my thoughts, but only a handful are actually willing to admit it even to themselves. That's why you get justifications in those areas from fans when it's THEIR player, but chastising of the practices when it's a rival's player. You won't hear that from me.
None. However I would have a problem with accepting a transfer with a lot of fresh criminal baggage who had been kicked off another team. We've had some shady guys with run ins with the law in their past but I can't remember any player transfer in with a history like Jamar Hornsby or Masoli. Nutt is just a peepa' heppa.
too hard. We ragged tsun and masoli because he was a criminal and was skirting the system. However, this guy wants to transfer because the defense he is interested in playing is apparently going to change. They're not even close, other than the fact both players are transfers.
The thing you are totally missing is that MSU fans were not the only ones upset over what happened with Masoli. I don't really think the loop hole is that big of a deal because it is rare that a player that has already graduated will transfer out. The problem with Masoli is that anyone can see that something is wrong with a guy committing serious crimes and getting completely kicked out of a university and then being eligible to play the very next year at a different institution. Comparing that to a guy who has done all the right things by all accounts wanting to play a different position is absurd.
trumaroon said:
Again, the comparison...and I'll make this slow and easy...is that neither one of them is/was transferring for academic reasons (which is the reason the rule was instituted).
There were other reasons people had problems with the Masoli deal. That's not what I'm talking about. Plenty of people on here complained that his motivation wasn't to actually pursue a grad school degree. My point was that if you were one of those that complained about that particular part of it, you should be annoyed by a player doing the same thing at MSU.
If you didn't have a problem with the academic farce part of it (like me), then you shouldn't have a problem with someone exploiting the loophole at MSU.
It's not that hard.
If your only complaint about the Masoli deal was that he had a criminal past, that's a different deal, and you're talking about a personal moral code, which is something completely different. Of course, it's not like MSU hasn't ever taken in a player with a criminal past, but I'm sure that all MSU fans were against that too when it has happened.
G
Goat Holder II
Guest
Ha, faking the moral high ground stuff huh. Uhh, @$*+ you, we ARE morally superior to Ole Miss right now. Just fact, and you don't like it. You're desperate, we aren't.
Go spend some time with your family or something, you're taking this waaay too seriously.
Go spend some time with your family or something, you're taking this waaay too seriously.
trying too hard. Everyone was tagging the fact that he was kicked off his team and played the "pursuing a degree" angle. Whereas this guy has pretty much made it known he's transferring because of changes in the defense (using the degree excuse). If you can't see the difference, I got nothing else.