If Stoops is a failure

[DACats86]

Truths I hold to be self-evident:
- The end of the 2007 season was the perfect launch pad to make significant investments into the football program - Barnhart sealed the pipes in Commonwealth Stadium...
- Barnhart would have never gotten the funding for investments if Jones had not had Williams on his show who explained that the athletic budget submitted to the legislature was nothing more than asking for a blank check with no accountability for how it would be invested nor how it would be serviced....
- Capilouto has been a driving force for creative investment both academic and athletic at UK...
- Britt Brockman lit a fire under Barnhart's ***, who then tried to sneak away to Kansas...
- A massive failure by football/Stoops will hurt all UK sports financially as UK athletics is on the hook to service ~ $175 million in bonds, with ~ $65 million of that being "gifted" to academics...

 

[sluggercatfan]

That will require firing Barnhart first.

So be it...Dwayne Peevey new ad and Mike Leach hc

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

While it is good to have a well rounded athletic program, football and basketball should be top priority followed by baseball as to garner revenue. Barnhart would of never fired joker if people would of come to the games still. Luckily the fans boycotted. If stoops doesn't win by next year, he'll be gone.

Another straw man argument. There is no way to get inside Barnhart's head and know what would have happened without the poor attendance. You have to judge people on facts, not some speculation on what might have happened.

 

[NCukcat62]

Another straw man argument. There is no way to get inside Barnhart's head and know what would have happened without the poor attendance. You have to judge people on facts, not some speculation on what might have happened.

Joker is gone. Stoops better start wining. [devil]

 

[un4getables]

What are you talking about?
1. Joker was 2 wins in his last season at UK
2. We're all glad to at least be to 5 wins but...
- Winning all 3 OOC scrubs (vs just 2) isn't a miracle worker.
- Getting past USC, Mizzou and Vandy in different years is another solid accomplishment...but Vandy is in the cellar again w/o Franklin, USC fell apart as well and Mizzou fell down a bit last year.
3. What 3 plays are you referencing that has kept us from 8 wins. That is laughable at best. We have scraped by USC the past 2 years for W's. Outside of the UL dropped Int in 2014 and UF delay of game miss in 2014...where are all of these W's we've missed.

And yet your boy joke couldn't do that. So yes we are moving in the right direction. And we will take a 1 or two win increase over last years record

 

[Deeeefense]

I don't know why this is even a question at this time. He is succeeding. The roster is miles improved. I think most believe the staff is also. One less win in 2014 & one more in 2016 - read the V and AU clusters - & thus same net overall record he'd be getting everyone's praises & not nervous nellie threads like this one.

Can people give this rest till after the season starts or can't some control themselves? Answer: Probably not. Some lack control.

This is the correct answer. Who do people think we would get that could come anywhere near the recruiting levels Stoops has achieved? None of the previous 8 have, and without the talent Vince Lombardi couldn't put any more Ws on the board.

Get it a rest folks, the wins will come.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

If Stoops is a failure, then I'm not sure we will ever see any football success at UK. Personally, I think I'll fold my cards and go home at that point - I'm too old and tired.
If that does happen, Barnhart "should" go offer Tom Herman whatever it takes. But, what Barnhart will do is hire Eddie Gran as HC.

USC went after him last year and Houston stepped up and paid him, but even if he had went to Carolina, his name would have been the first on the list at Texas and/or A&M. He wants one of those jobs and if either has what they see as a sub par year he will very likely be the next head coach. If both do sit back and watch the bidding war, it very well could determine what it cost to hire and keep a successful head football coach. It will approach what Saban is making and could surpass him. Both have huge money boosters who want to outdo the other. But you are correct, he is the hottest young rising coach out there right now. But he is holding out for one of those jobs.

 

[RV]

If a person were hit by a bus, what are your thoughts on where you go from there? Would the busdriver need to go?

I can only hope that Petrovski isn't highly successful at Greyhound again. That would just open another can of worms, IMO.

Anyway, have a lovely day.


It's not something I would normally do but this is one of the times I wish this site had a down vote option.

 

[theoledog]

I think Barney needs to stay if Stoops don't produce. Who would be prepared to transition 60K fans to being, softball, vollyball and track fans than
Mitch (he's our man) Barnhart! Why he's already transitioned 7K out of CWS through shrinkage and provided us with a patio... I prefer to think of the patio as a monument to the missing. Please note that it seems I'm not a big MB fan it's because I'm not.

But this is my, for real, thought on the subject.... If Stoops don't make it happen (say another three years) then I'd certainly be fine with keeping him and getting rid of Barnhart... Why? Because we've been getting rid of HC's for 50 years and it ain't done squat to improve the program.... Try something different. Get rid of the AD keep the coach.

 

[tmuck]

What year did we only win 1 game?


Also, 5 wins is an improvement, but we didn't win 8 games. I don't care how many plays we were away.

You fell right into the UL troll's trap.

 

[Shavers48]

Barnhart would def not need to go. Dude has made great hires with volleyball, softball, track and field, and fixed his BCG blunder by hiring Cal. The non-revenue sports have never been stronger.

If Stoops fails, that means UK is in a position somewhere between Joker and Brooks, or a 5-win plateau in other words. That probably translates to an up-and-coming coordinator. UK being in the SEC will draw a lot of names. Should have a good pool of candidates.

If Stoops fails and Barney is allowed to stay it is a death sentence for UK Football. Period.

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

As soon as Strong left UL, Petrino would have left UK for UL.

Plus, I truly believe that Stoops had some negotiating power at the time he was hired and is the main reason we have our facility upgrades.

If we hired Petrino, who didn't have that same negotiating power at the time, we probably wouldn't have the upgrades. May have a better team - but that is yet to be determined.

Petrino would not have left UK for UL. His dream is and always has been to coach in the SEC. His dad was quoted in the newspaper saying as much when he was lobbying for the UK job when we hired Stoops

 

[DACats86]

So be it...Dwayne Peevey new ad and Mike Leach hc

If DP becomes AD, that will be the finale for UK football.

 

[anon_7tbtqcx308nxh]

If Stoops fails and Barney is allowed to stay it is a death sentence for UK Football. Period.

I enjoy how you express opinions as if they are facts #Period

 

[DACats86]

USC went after him last year and Houston stepped up and paid him, but even if he had went to Carolina, his name would have been the first on the list at Texas and/or A&M. He wants one of those jobs and if either has what they see as a sub par year he will very likely be the next head coach. If both do sit back and watch the bidding war, it very well could determine what it cost to hire and keep a successful head football coach. It will approach what Saban is making and could surpass him. Both have huge money boosters who want to outdo the other. But you are correct, he is the hottest young rising coach out there right now. But he is holding out for one of those jobs.

Thus why UK will hire Eddie Gran. For UK to get a high level HC from another program, they will have to overpay at an extreme level. Something Barnhart would gag on.

 

[pikespeak1]

Barney was too much of a wuss to hire Petrino. Even though he is thought to be scum, I say so what, we would be winning games.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

[Longtrip]

Barney is a loser and I will celebrate when he departs. I give him no credit for hiring Coach Cal. That said, I remain hopeful CMS can have some success at Kentucky (6+ wins per season). He needs to leave the offense in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing (he doesn't know offense). He needs to do what it takes to improve special teams. When I look at the 2016-17 schedule I see only 5 wins - so no bowl. But CMS should get, and will get two more seasons (barring a complete melt-down). If he does not get us into a bowl after the 2017-18 season then IMHO both Barney and CMS will need to go.

 

[tntuk]

Petrino would not have left UK for UL. His dream is and always has been to coach in the SEC. His dad was quoted in the newspaper saying as much when he was lobbying for the UK job when we hired Stoops

Lol.

 

[Mike-D]

opcorn:

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

Lol.

"I just know this, that he's interested in Kentucky," the father said. "He wants to stay in the SEC. That was his life's goal was to go to the SEC."

ROTFLMAO

 

[Shavers48]

I enjoy how you express opinions as if they are facts #Period

 

[Shavers48]

Is that your opinion?

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Thus why UK will hire Eddie Gran. For UK to get a high level HC from another program, they will have to overpay at an extreme level. Something Barnhart would gag on.

We had fans who swore UGA would go after a proven head coach when Richt left, but not how we do things either. In the last 50+ years we have hired one head coach and he was from a DII school at the time, Jim Donnan from Marshall. All of them haven't even been coordinators, Dooley was qb coach at AU, Goff was RB coach at UGA, then Donnan was head coach at Marshall, Richt OC at FSU and Smart DC at Bama. I think we could lure someone away from an other 5 conference, but not sure we could have gotten someone from a P5 we would have wanted. Quite a few of our fans are worried Gus is going to get fired at AU and they hire Mike Bobo. I am not in that group, I think his play calling cost us at least 1 game a year and 2 some years. He is a very good qb coach though.

But every ultra successful head coach, including Meyers, Saban and Herman had their first head coaching job at one time.

 

[ZakkW]

IF Stoops 'fails', the University would actually let Mitch B make ANOTHER football hire?? That seems stupid to me. IMO.

 

[tntuk]

"I just know this, that he's interested in Kentucky," the father said. "He wants to stay in the SEC. That was his life's goal was to go to the SEC."

ROTFLMAO

LOL! You are so convinced aren't you. Poor fella.

I know what his dad said by the way - he was clearly lobbying for his son at the time. I take that comment with a grain of salt - so should you. This statement was ALSO made 1 YEAR PRIOR to Strong leaving UL btw.

This back and forth on this is also missing the bigger point I was trying to make. That Stoops had negotiating power and Bobby P did not - at the time.

Stoops parlayed that into, "YES, I will be UKs coach if X, Y, and Z are done (as it relates to facilities upgrades)."

 

[vhcat70]

I'm sorry some people don't like to talk about possibilities unless everything is hunky dory. It's simple discussion.

Repeated ad nauseam with no new data. What's the point?

 

[vhcat70]

Stoops has not been successful here. He has succeeded in one aspect and that's recruiting. He has not proven he can game plan, adjust, or even hire coaches. Sure, you talk about how great the Gran and Hinshaw hires are and I think they were, but Brown was hired before Stoops was and Dawson was clearly not a great fit for him. DJ Eliot has yet to prove he can be a successful coordinator. Till the chickens start beepin I'm not ready just yet to say Stoops has improved in his hiring decision. He also has to prove he can not micromanage them to death either.

Stoops can bring them in but there is still doubt he can develop them at this point. Shake you head all you want but this upcoming season is probably make or break for Stoops. It is a pivotal season and we're starring down the barrel at 4 road games and 2 home games we're not going to win. He has yet to beat the in state rival. Actually took a step back last year and that's not going to change this year likely. This is a conversation because if UK takes another step back going 4-8 or keeps spinning their tires at 5-7 you don't want this to drag on because recruits will eventually go elsewhere and we're back to square one.

You're either succeeding or failing & he's not failing by any measure. What hasn't he improved? If giving a grade, I give a B, maybe a C, & certainly not an F. That he hasn't accomplished everything doesn't equal failure.

 

[why_not_kentucky]

If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck....you can guess the rest of it.

 

[vhcat70]

What year did we only win 1 game?


Also, 5 wins is an improvement, but we didn't win 8 games. I don't care how many plays we were away.

Got it, winning 8 games by his 3rd year is your measure of success. LMAO.

 

[vhcat70]

Because we were one great play from losing to EKU. And we went from 2 wins to 5 and then stayed at 5 again.

Yep, straight line up or outta here. No room for ups & downs.

 

[DACats86]

- Petrino would have run back to UofL (if UK had hired him) with a smirk on his face. Look at how much UofL was willing to pay him when he was hired from WKU, and no one else even wanted him at that time...
- If Stoops fails, Barnhart SHOULD NOT be allowed to make another hire, but of course he will because Cal...
- UK hiring an unproven coordinator as HC and UGA hiring an unproven coordinator as HC is like comparing rotten bananas to oranges...

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

LOL! You are so convinced aren't you. Poor fella.

I know what his dad said by the way - he was clearly lobbying for his son at the time. I take that comment with a grain of salt - so should you. This statement was ALSO made 1 YEAR PRIOR to Strong leaving UL btw.

This back and forth on this is also missing the bigger point I was trying to make. That Stoops had negotiating power and Bobby P did not - at the time.

Stoops parlayed that into, "YES, I will be UKs coach if X, Y, and Z are done (as it relates to facilities upgrades)."

The facility upgrades still would not have happened if Stoops hadn't rallied the alumni and the boosters to earmark donations for football instead of basketball like so many had for so long before Stoops. I do agree that Stoops probably had conditions before was going to accept the job but it doesn't happen like it has without Stoops' fundraising.

I agree that Petrino's dad was probably pushing UK to get Bobby back into P5 football but no one can argue that Petrino has always wanted to be in the SEC above all else. He has always wanted the Auburn job and if he hadn't gone to the Falcons first I'm confident that he would've left UL for Arkansas or any other SEC job that he was offered. Leaving UK for UL would be a lateral move I don't care about their recent success. Leaving any SEC school for a middle of the road ACC job is a lateral move at best

 

[shutzhund]

It Stoops is a "failure" that would mean that UK would have made two straight bad hires who came from the coordinator ranks (Joker, Stoops). Hiring someone who has already proven he can be a head coach would be important.

Better make sure that guy can recruit, at least, as well as Stoops. If he can then why would he come to UK? Why would he be available?

Better to hope Stoops can succeed and quit wondering "what if". We are in a familiar UK football situation. Backs to the wall.

 

[Mike-D]

Got it, winning 8 games by his 3rd year is your measure of success. LMAO.

What are you even talking about? Reading comprehension would work wonders.

 

[GoCatsForever2k15]

I would've preferred petrino at the time and I'm not ready to say without a shadow of a doubt that we made the right call. That being said, I love stoops. He deserves the loooong leash he's gotten and continues to get based on his historically great (for this program) recruiting.

Not the biggest fan of Barney.

 

[vhcat70]

What are you even talking about? Reading comprehension would work wonders.

This: "but we didn't win 8 games."

 

[KumarCat]

If Stoops fails (which I don't think he will) then someone else has to get the chance to fix football. As someone here said 4 tries is 15 years is enough.

 

[Greasy Creak Mafia]

Tommy Tubberville if Stoops leaves town. He can keep his contacts in Ohio for recruiting the state,Gran and Hinshaw can keep,their positions and our Offense would not have another install. The man has ran some big time programs and more than held his own. A seasoned coach who can win games like last years Vandy game, Fla game and Auburn game along with the game we had a 21 point lead in.

I want Stoops to right the ship and cement himself here as a top tier coach. But if the job is too much for him then hard decisions have to be made. A swift transition into a coach with a solid recruiting base and past experience in game planning , adjusting and organization.

 

[tntuk]

The facility upgrades still would not have happened if Stoops hadn't rallied the alumni and the boosters to earmark donations for football instead of basketball like so many had for so long before Stoops. I do agree that Stoops probably had conditions before was going to accept the job but it doesn't happen like it has without Stoops' fundraising.

I agree that Petrino's dad was probably pushing UK to get Bobby back into P5 football but no one can argue that Petrino has always wanted to be in the SEC above all else. He has always wanted the Auburn job and if he hadn't gone to the Falcons first I'm confident that he would've left UL for Arkansas or any other SEC job that he was offered. Leaving UK for UL would be a lateral move I don't care about their recent success. Leaving any SEC school for a middle of the road ACC job is a lateral move at best

Fair enough and good post. Don't get me wrong - I think Petrino is one heckuva coach and I'd love it if he were our coach b/c we probably would have gone bowling the last two seasons and he'd have us rocking this fall. But there was always a risk he'd bolt (whether that be for UL or an upper echelon SEC school). And then we'd be back to square one.

I do feel like Stoops was the right hire for UK at the time and has us still trending upward, even if the on field performance has stalled at 5-7 the last two years. Recruiting is better under Stoops than it would have been with BP; and we have some awesome facilities now.

Stoops crown jewel 2014 class will be juniors this fall. These guys should be ready to win some games this fall, with sights on doing something big in 2017.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

Not at all what I'm arguing, but I do enjoy a tasty straw man for breakfast. Non-revenue sports build prestige. I personally like having a comprehensive athletic program, and not being a one or two-trick pony.

But in any case, Barnhart is also fine because his instincts were correct in hiring Stoops. That was a universally praised hire by every corner of the CFB community (players, coaches, agents, media, administrators, and fans). He turned around Arizona's defense and parlayed that into a bigger DC job at major power FSU. He then turned around that defense that began their current run. That was a very smart hire with a proven track record that everyone thought would be a success.

Get out more often.

A number of OP need to get out more often.