If we ever want to be good in football...

[jnewc2_rivals30628]

If we run him out after this year, no chance. Might actually have it next year or the year after if we are patient.

Have to love people preaching to UK football fans about patience. My goodness, our true football fans are the most loyal fans in the history of sports. They continue to come back time after time after time like no other fans in college football.

I'm pretty sure that "patience" isn't the reason UK football is where it's at historically. It's the exact opposite. Go tell an Alabama or LSU or Georgia or Florida fan that UK isn't patient enough with our coaches and see how they feel about it.

Open up the dictionary and beside the word patient you'll see a picture of a UK football fan . Patience isn't our problem. It's low expectations.

 

[GoCatsForever2k15]

It's too early to give up on stoops. He truly walked into a cluster****. But 7 years is obscene. It's this year or next or he should be cut loose.

 

[LeonThe Camel]

If we run him out after this year, no chance. Might actually have it next year or the year after if we are patient.

I am all for giving him more years. I said it early on. Need to give 10 years, stability, patience.
At the same time, I can poke fun at what our reality is.

 

[LeonThe Camel]

Jesus, obviously I'm not talking about drugs and rapists. I'm talking about how long you give a coach to determine whether it's time to go in a different direction. They gave kragthorpe 3 years, saw it wasn't jiving, and moved to Strong. How'd that work out for them? "Would we like that kind of success?"

When the job came open 3 years ago, Stoops reached out to Barnhart- not the other way around. Not to mention, Petrino was absolutely interested in the job as well. So I completely disagree with the idea that, coming off a massive facilities upgrade with decent talent still on the roster, we couldn't attract a top coordinator from a strong program.

I don't disagree that stoops walked into a dumpster fire. He deserved a long leash. But 5 years is PLENTY long enough. If we beat every team this season that had a losing record last year plus southern miss, we'd be bowling- No ones asking for miracles here. We don't need 7 years.

The realistic view of our football has to be taken. How to change it is the next step.

The state of Kentucky has very little to offer in the way of high school talent. And we do not have a brand recognition that the very good players from Texas, Florida, Alabama Georgia, Ohio, talent rich states want to come and be a part of.

Facts is facts they say.

So what needs to happen? The easier said than done is find a name coach that wants to be here. He may have warts, he may be a saint, but if you want players, you need to make the destination attractive.

 

[Crootin]

...I'm giving Stoops 5 years to make a bowl game.

If someone said that out loud in some place football was taken seriously, they would get laughed out of the conversation.

Five years. To finally be one of the top eighty teams in the country. Eighty.

Jnew's post above is exactly right.

 

[allabouttheUK]

The realistic view of our football has to be taken. How to change it is the next step.

The state of Kentucky has very little to offer in the way of high school talent. And we do not have a brand recognition that the very good players from Texas, Florida, Alabama Georgia, Ohio, talent rich states want to come and be a part of.

Facts is facts they say.

So what needs to happen? The easier said than done is find a name coach that wants to be here. He may have warts, he may be a saint, but if you want players, you need to make the destination attractive.

We tried getting a name coach and they all said no. We got lucky with a retired football coach that was begged to take the job.

Curry was a name coach as well.

 

[LeonThe Camel]

It didn't take James Franklin 7 years to win at Candy. It didn't take Lou Holtz seven years to win at South Carolina. It didn't take Spurrier seven years to win bigger than holtz did. It took Urban Meyer two years to win a national championship at Florida. It took A-hole Bobby Petrino to land in the sugar bowl at Arkansas in year 3. It took Malzahn two years to get to the national championship game. Should I go on?

Point made. BUTTTTTT......
Hotlz was a former ND coach. He came in with name recognition and South Carolina has a talent base of high school players.
Spurrier was THE football coach at Florida, and came from the NFL. Again p-layers wanted to play for the Old Ball Coach.
Meyer was at least proven in Utah. Ran an exciting offense and again had a talent base.
Petrino had success at Louisville, and like Spurrier, came from the NFL. Kids wanted to be in his system.
Malzhan was the least heralded of the group. Only had coached at Arky State. But had previous knowledge of Auburn and was entrenched in the Alabama recruiting scene.

Compare any of those to Stoops. From Ohio, Was out west. Spent 3 years in Florida. First head coaching gig.

The differences are Grand Canyon wide.

 

[GoCatsForever2k15]

The realistic view of our football has to be taken. How to change it is the next step.

The state of Kentucky has very little to offer in the way of high school talent. And we do not have a brand recognition that the very good players from Texas, Florida, Alabama Georgia, Ohio, talent rich states want to come and be a part of.

Facts is facts they say.

So what needs to happen? The easier said than done is find a name coach that wants to be here. He may have warts, he may be a saint, but if you want players, you need to make the destination attractive.

Sure it does. That still doesn't mean give a guy 7 years, let alone 10.

 

[LeonThe Camel]

Probably agree on all fronts. My disappointment has been in his coaching acumen. Some gameday blunders (calling a TO before a punt against Auburn???) are forgivable b/c he's a first-time head coach, but I've been really disappointed that our Defense has been so mediocre given that he was supposed to be a top-notch D-coordinator.

We tried getting a name coach and they all said no. We got lucky with a retired football coach that was begged to take the job.

Curry was a name coach as well.

I know. But short of stating the obvious what do we do? We cannot make the prospects better in Kentucky high schools.

 

[allabouttheUK]

Sure it does. That still doesn't mean give a guy 7 years, let alone 10.

I agree, 10 years is too much. Year 6 is when he should start feeling the heat. 4 years to build the base and 2 years to see what he can do with it. Given what UK football has always been with the exception of 4 or 5 years out of 50, I think that's a reasonable amount of time. Had his recruiting been atrocious, I would say kick him to the curb, but he has been consistent in that area and provided a glimmer of hope.

 

[allabouttheUK]

I know. But short of stating the obvious what do we do? We cannot make the prospects better in Kentucky high schools.

EXACTLY!

That is why there is no quick fix for UK. It's a building process and things have to be done in a certain order.

 

[LowCountryCat]

I agree, 10 years is too much. Year 6 is when he should start feeling the heat. 4 years to build the base and 2 years to see what he can do with it. Given what UK football has always been with the exception of 4 or 5 years out of 50, I think that's a reasonable amount of time. Had his recruiting been atrocious, I would say kick him to the curb, but he has been consistent in that area and provided a glimmer of hope.

How so? He's still below the rest of the SEC in recruiting, which means going 4-4 in conference play is likely a pipe dream. You're CELEBRATING a future where 8-5 is our CEILING.

We're paying CMS MILLIONS for a "glimmer of hope" as you put it. That's way too expensive.

 

[LowCountryCat]

Point made. BUTTTTTT......
Hotlz was a former ND coach. He came in with name recognition and South Carolina has a talent base of high school players.
Spurrier was THE football coach at Florida, and came from the NFL. Again p-layers wanted to play for the Old Ball Coach.
Meyer was at least proven in Utah. Ran an exciting offense and again had a talent base.
Petrino had success at Louisville, and like Spurrier, came from the NFL. Kids wanted to be in his system.
Malzhan was the least heralded of the group. Only had coached at Arky State. But had previous knowledge of Auburn and was entrenched in the Alabama recruiting scene.

Compare any of those to Stoops. From Ohio, Was out west. Spent 3 years in Florida. First head coaching gig.

The differences are Grand Canyon wide.

And who should be held responsible for that hire? And for extending his contract until the year 3000?

 

[GoCatsForever2k15]

I agree, 10 years is too much. Year 6 is when he should start feeling the heat. 4 years to build the base and 2 years to see what he can do with it. Given what UK football has always been with the exception of 4 or 5 years out of 50, I think that's a reasonable amount of time. Had his recruiting been atrocious, I would say kick him to the curb, but he has been consistent in that area and provided a glimmer of hope.

It takes 6 years for a coach to beat the cupcakes on our schedule and all the teams with losing records? That's all that's being asked of him.

 

[allabouttheUK]

It takes 6 years for a coach to beat the cupcakes on our schedule and all the teams with losing records? That's all that's being asked of him.

Is any team in a P5 conference going to win without a solid 2 deep roster? NO

So 4 years to build a solid foundation (2 deep across the board), and 2 years to show what you can do with it.

Keep in mind what shape the program was in when he arrived. We may as well have been on probation, the joke left it that bad.

 

[GoCatsForever2k15]

Is any team in a P5 conference going to win without a solid 2 deep roster? NO

So 4 years to build a solid foundation (2 deep across the board), and 2 years to show what you can do with it.

Keep in mind what shape the program was in when he arrived. We may as well have been on probation, the joke left it that bad.

we just went 5-7. You're telling me there's no way he could have gone 6-6 (that would quell a huge portion of the fanbase)? Because he didn't have a solid 2 deep? That's hilarious.

I know the state the roster was in when stoops took over. That's why I'm saying Id be happy with a SINGLE .500 SEASON in 5 years (!!!)

 

[Mike-D]

If someone said that out loud in some place football was taken seriously, they would get laughed out of the conversation.

Five years. To finally be one of the top eighty teams in the country. Eighty.

Jnew's post above is exactly right.

Yeap. 5 years to rebuild the train wreck that was left by the previous coaching regime. I can say that out loud because I'm not ignoring the roster we had when Stoops got here. 5 years in, the entire roster will be Mark Stoops players with multiple redshirt players now playing. Obviously, if we don't go bowling this year, I'll probably have lost faith anyway, but he'll get 5 years regardless.

 

[allabouttheUK]

we just went 5-7. You're telling me there's no way he could have gone 6-6 (that would quell a huge portion of the fanbase)? Because he didn't have a solid 2 deep? That's hilarious.

I know the state the roster was in when stoops took over. That's why I'm saying Id be happy with a SINGLE .500 SEASON in 5 years (!!!)

Sure, they were a couple of plays away from being 8-4. The staff was a mess last year as well. I COMPLETELY get the anger and frustation with back to back 5-7 years, but I look at the changes that have been made to the staff, the current roster...I see a better year(s) ahead.

So a solid 2 deep doesn't matter to win SEC football games? Is that why you are laughing? Depth matters in college football, when it's next man up do you want a huge drop off or do you want talent that is equal or close to what you had starting?

 

[GoCatsForever2k15]

Sure, they were a couple of plays away from being 8-4. The staff was a mess last year as well. I COMPLETELY get the anger and frustation with back to back 5-7 years, but I look at the changes that have been made to the staff, the current roster...I see a better year(s) ahead.

So a solid 2 deep doesn't matter to win SEC football games? Is that why you are laughing? Depth matters in college football, when it's next man up do you want a huge drop off or do you want talent that is equal or close to what you had starting?

No, you very clearly don't need a "solid" two deep at every unit to beat cupcakes + the crappy SEC teams, which is all anyone's asking. We nearly pulled it off last year when "the staff was a mess", surely to god we can do it this year or next

 

[allabouttheUK]

No, you very clearly don't need a "solid" two deep at every unit to beat cupcakes + the crappy SEC teams

So you just want to stay on the bottom and beat Vandy every year and win 3 out of four OOC games?

I want more than that. I want 4-4 or better in conference, and a sweep of OOC. To get there you have to build a program...in our case from the ground up, literally!

 

[GoCatsForever2k15]

So you just want to stay on the bottom and beat Vandy every year and win 3 out of four OOC games?

I want more than that. I want 4-4 or better in conference, and a sweep of OOC. To get there you have to build a program...in our case from the ground up, literally!

Who seems more likely to be content with mediocrity: the guy who thinks we should be able to go .500 at some point in the first five years or the guy who thinks the coach shouldn't start "feeling the heat" until at least year 6?

Getting to a bowl game and beating JUST the crappy teams on our schedule obviously isn't enough long term, but it's the first step we need to take. I think that step can and should be accomplished in the first 5 years, you apparently don't

 

[Anon1660081258]

The emperor is about to turn out in his best. I am certain of it. All of this sounds so much like the run up to 2006 I can only laugh.

 

[allabouttheUK]

Who seems more likely to be content with mediocrity: the guy who thinks we should be able to go .500 at some point in the first five years or the guy who thinks the coach shouldn't start "feeling the heat" until at least year 6?

Getting to a bowl game and beating JUST the crappy teams on our schedule obviously isn't enough long term, but it's the first step we need to take. I think that step can and should be accomplished in the first 5 years, you apparently don't

Agree on all counts. You and I disagree on the timeline. Last year sucked and sucked bad! I was angry, ready to walk away (not that I can). Were we a couple plays away from disaster, absolutely! Were we a couple plays away from surprising a lot of people fans included? Absolutely!
If we can't manage 6-6 this year then I will start warming up my ditch stoops bus. I just think too much damage was done by joker, and the coaching situation the past two years has been anything but stable.

I don't think the answer is jumping from coach to coach after 3-4 years though for a couple reasons. 1) We aren't the type of program that can go out and just grab whoever we want. 2) It creates instability and scares coaches away that do that.

I hate DUKE, but use them as an example, pretty much the exact same boat as us football wise...or was. They have stuck with Cutcliffe and it has paid off. It wasn't pretty early and hasn't' been great, but it's a far cry from where they were before he got there (minus the spurrier years)

 

[Kai Slater]

To be good at football, UK football team needs to make fewer mistakes and score more points than their opponents EACH and EVERY game.

 

[Adolph Rollingover]

It didn't take James Franklin 7 years to win at Candy. It didn't take Lou Holtz seven years to win at South Carolina. It didn't take Spurrier seven years to win bigger than holtz did. It took Urban Meyer two years to win a national championship at Florida. It took A-hole Bobby Petrino to land in the sugar bowl at Arkansas in year 3. It took Malzahn two years to get to the national championship game. Should I go on?

I don't want to burst your hate bubble but:
Lou Holtz
1. 0/11
2 8/4
3 9/3
4 5/7
5 5/7
6 6/5

Spurrier
1 7/5
2.7/5
3. 6/6
4. 7/6
5. 7/6
6. 9/3

I agree with you about Arkansas and Petrino and Urban. Both have won wherevever they have gone, but Malzhan is on the hot seat after going 8/5 and 7/6 the last two years.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I think we should swing from the fences. This is from a UK Football fan since the 50s. I would simply hire Art Briles. I would be the first to say an edgy move but at some point we have to do something to get us off the snide. No one wants CMS to have a great night Saturday more than me but I just dont know at this point.

Briles has proven he can do system football and score by the gazillions. I know the issues at Baylor but I think UK has the personnel in place to insure he runs a clean program.

Briles? You can't possibly be serious.

 

[allabouttheUK]

Can we please stay away from coach's and players that are a part of domestic violence?

 

[LeonThe Camel]

How so? He's still below the rest of the SEC in recruiting, which means going 4-4 in conference play is likely a pipe dream. You're CELEBRATING a future where 8-5 is our CEILING.

We're paying CMS MILLIONS for a "glimmer of hope" as you put it. That's way too expensive.

Good point. Recruiting, if history is the indicator, will more times than not be behind the vast majority of the rest of the conference. We must either outplay or out-coach the opponent.
___________________________________________________________
Prime MF said: ↑
And who should be held responsible for that hire? And for extending his contract until the year 3000?
And that brings about the double-edged sword.
If Barnhart gets credit for the other sports and dinged for football, then we are saying the others, sans basketball, do not really matter. And it becomes a 2 game race to keep his job.
It would be ideal if you could have success everywhere. But no school has done that consistently well in all areas.
____________________________________________________________
GoCatsForever2k15 said: ↑
No, you very clearly don't need a "solid" two deep at every unit to beat cupcakes + the crappy SEC teams, which is all anyone's asking. We nearly pulled it off last year when "the staff was a mess", surely to god we can do it this year or next
We need to stop this "beat the crappy teams". We are one of the crappy teams until we improve.

We have a losing record against every team int he league outside of Arkansas (4-3), Missouri (3-3), Texas A&M (1-1), and Vandy (42-42). the first 3 we could say are due to not playing them often, but we are Vandy's Vandy.

We can improve, but our history is who we are until then.

Opponent
Won Lost Tied Percentage Streak First Last
Alabama 2 36 1 .064 Lost 5 1917 2013
Arkansas 4 3 0 .571 Lost 1 1998 2012
Auburn 6 26 1 .197 Lost 2 1934 2015
Florida 17 49 0 .258 Lost 29 1917 2015
Georgia 12 55 2 .188 Lost 6 1939 2015
LSU 16 40 1 .289 Lost 2 1949 2014
Mississippi State 21 22 0 .488 Lost 7 1914 2015
Missouri 3 3 0 .500 Won 1 1965 2015
Mississippi 14 27 1 .345 Won 1 1944 2011
South Carolina 9 17 1 .352 Won 2 1937 2015
Tennessee 24 78 9 .257 Lost 4 1893 2015
Texas A&M 1 1 0 .500 Lost 1 1952 1953
Vanderbilt 42 42 4 .500 Lost 1 1896 2015
Totals 171 399 20 .307

 

[JC CATS]

This is an important year for Stoops, give him this season and next. Didn' most of us yell for Rich Brook's head after 3 years?

 

[LeonThe Camel]

This is an important year for Stoops, give him this season and next. Didn' most of us yell for Rich Brook's head after 3 years?

I think most of were yelling why didn't anyone want the position.

 

[ClockCalamity]

We are NOT a respectable power 5 program!!! We don't have the ability to just drop coaches and pick up a proven HC. Where the F&*% have all of the people that want to fire Stoops after this season (if he's doesn't reach a bowl) been?? Besides the Brooks years, and a couple of years with Mumme, this program has been pathetic for the better part of 40 years. Programs like ours do not get proven HC's, we have to take flyers on DCs and OCs and hope they develop into HCs... Or, we take guys at the ends of their careers and hope to get a few decent years out of them before they retire, which of course brings us back to where we are now. If you think 1 year of having your own players is enough time to give a developing HC (to determine if he's going to be our future HC), then you might as well quit following UK football, because once you get rid of Stoops, you'll deal with this same process all over again. If this type of discussion is happening in 2 more seasons, which would give CMS 3 complete years with his players and system in place, then that would be an entirely different story. At that time, you cut him loose and start over from scratch.

 

[ganner918_rivals60369]

Why don't we see what happens this year before arguing over whether or not we should hypothetically fire our coach if we suck.

 

[ukalumni00]

Stoops walked into a mid level MAC program. Yes, the talent and depth was that bad. Joker should have given UK back all of the money he took from them while running this program in the ground.

I agree completely Stoops has made a lot of mistakes and yes I still have questions about him, but the last two seasons with all the issues he faced the program still was a few plays away from winning several more games but it's easy to focus on the losses and I get that.

If this team looks bad tomorrow, does not make a bowl game, etc. then I think it is fair to seriously question Stoops as a HC but I want to see what product he puts on the field before making that decision.

The good news is he has been instrumental in getting all of the facility upgrades done and has boosted the talent level in a significant way so if he does not work out UK has a ton to sell to the next HC and give him a roster that gives him a fighting chance to get the job done. Jeff Brohm would be on my short list.

 

[WildCard]

...I can cut Stoops some slack up to this point. He was a rookie HC at a historically mediocre program that competes in the nation's toughest football league. It is not uncommon for rookie HCs in high profile programs to "struggle" early so some of the responsibility for Stoop's record to date rests with the man who selected him for the job....

Got to thinking about this and decided to look it up. During my time watching UK football (i.e., from Bradshaw era forward)...

Rookie HCs

Bradshaw: 7 years 25-41-4
Ray: 4 years 10-33
Morriss: 2 years 9-14
Phillips: 3 years 13-24
Stoops: 3 years 12-24

Totals: 69-136-4 33.6% win percentage including 28-106-2 in SEC 20.8%​

Experienced HCs

Curci: 9 years 47-51-2
Claiborne: 8 years 41-46-3
Curry: 7 years 26-52
Mumme: 4 years 20-26
Brooks: 7 years 39-54

Totals: 173-239-5 41.9% win percentage including 80-176 in SEC 31.2%%​

I see several posters still arguing about the horrible roster Stoops inherited. While that may be true it was really no worse than what any coach other than Phillips and Curry inherited. But every coach who got to year 5 had at least one 6 win season by year 4. IMO, that is what makes this year so critical as we look forward.

EDIT: John Ray was HC at DIV III John Carroll College before accepting assistant position at ND so he belongs in the Experienced HC group. I'm too lazy to change the math.

Peace

 

[allabouttheUK]

How so? He's still below the rest of the SEC in recruiting, which means going 4-4 in conference play is likely a pipe dream. You're CELEBRATING a future where 8-5 is our CEILING.

We're paying CMS MILLIONS for a "glimmer of hope" as you put it. That's way too expensive.

Who you want and who you gonna get to come here? There is nothing attractive, as you and many others have pointed out about the football program here. How do you convince a Nick Saban, or Urban to come to UK? IF they did come to UK who you think is gonna fill the spots at the traditional power house schools? Easier for them to get the top name that it is UK. They don't rebuild, they reload. We have to BUILD not rebuild, and it's neither fun or fast.

8-5 isn't the ceiling, 8-5 is a goal that you have to reach before you take the next step.

 

[LadyCaytIL]

We all want the positive to happen but what if ts bad again? Gotta have your bases covered just in case. losing more of the fan base is lost ticket sales.. parking... merchandise ... etc.. would come up to more than 12.5 million in losses. So just because he has a buyout thats large, doesnt guarantee him another year.

 

[BlueRattie_rivals]

Folks, the four year plan simply will not work in the SEC. If you were in a the ACC, the PAC 12, or even the Big 12, you could string together four years of solid, top 25 recruiting and have a winning record. Even with the traditional powers in those conferences you can still make hay because the respective bottom of each conference is so weak. If you're in the ACC, just leapfrog the likes of UVA, Wake, NC State, and--boom--your legitimate again.

In the SEC, that 25th ranked class is 12th in the conference! No one, and I mean no one is going to waltz into UK and get three straight years of top 10 classes after following Joker's act in Lexington. The best you can hope for is this type of plan:

• Year One: Recruit the best you can by offering PT, on the field, ride out the Joker fiasco. Lean heavy on JC transfers.
• Year Two: Redshirt as many freshmen as you can, hope you can get near .500 with Joker's holdovers. keep recruiting on the PT mantra. Keep leaning heavy on JC Transfers, .500 ball is still out of reach.
• Year Three: Rely on a combo of redshirt freshmen, jc transfers, and whatever Joker kids you have left--assuming they can hold their spot. Hope to God you get close to .500 ball. Try to build depth by redshirting freshmen. Playing time is still the best recruiting pitch.
• Your Four: Play a combination of redshirt soph's, redshirt freshmen, JC seniors. Virtually all of Joker's guys are gone. You have more depth and talent than usual, but it's not elite talent and you're still green. Redshirt all but the most elite freshmen. Get to a bowl! Win six games and change the recruiting pitch from PT to "help us get over the hump".
• Year Five: Ramp up recruiting; with depth on the team you can now focus on building a smaller but more talented classes. On the field, you're RS-Jr / RS-S' dominated, with a smattering of RS and true freshmen rounding out the roster. You still do not have elite talent (remember, these were top 25 classes, not top 10), but you now have the talent and the depth to compete with most of the teams in the SEC. Aim at 8 wins and a mid-tier bowl. Next year, though, is your year.
• Year Six: Team is dominated by RS-Sr's, RS-Jr's, and RS-So's. RS-Fr' shave to really be talented to get PT. You have the luxury of redshirting virtually all of your incoming freshmen. JC kids are only recruited for depth or attrition of a specific position--not as a "God I hope he can start" stopgap. This team has excellent depth, experience, and more talent than 95% of most UK teams.
• Now, at this point you have not "arrived"; you are merely a 8 to 10 win team. If you can maintain that level, then you get to take a shot at starting the whole process over again with top 10 recruiting classes instead of top 25. String three of those together in a row and you may have something special.
  
  Folks, it's at least a six year process. This isn't hoops, where you can get five uber-talented kids and let 'er rip. It takes years, YEARS, of recruiting and developing talent before progress can be made.

 

[LowCountryCat]

Folks, the four year plan simply will not work in the SEC. If you were in a the ACC, the PAC 12, or even the Big 12, you could string together four years of solid, top 25 recruiting and have a winning record. Even with the traditional powers in those conferences you can still make hay because the respective bottom of each conference is so weak. If you're in the ACC, just leapfrog the likes of UVA, Wake, NC State, and--boom--your legitimate again.

In the SEC, that 25th ranked class is 12th in the conference! No one, and I mean no one is going to waltz into UK and get three straight years of top 10 classes after following Joker's act in Lexington. The best you can hope for is this type of plan:

• Year One: Recruit the best you can by offering PT, on the field, ride out the Joker fiasco. Lean heavy on JC transfers.
• Year Two: Redshirt as many freshmen as you can, hope you can get near .500 with Joker's holdovers. keep recruiting on the PT mantra. Keep leaning heavy on JC Transfers, .500 ball is still out of reach.
• Year Three: Rely on a combo of redshirt freshmen, jc transfers, and whatever Joker kids you have left--assuming they can hold their spot. Hope to God you get close to .500 ball. Try to build depth by redshirting freshmen. Playing time is still the best recruiting pitch.
• Your Four: Play a combination of redshirt soph's, redshirt freshmen, JC seniors. Virtually all of Joker's guys are gone. You have more depth and talent than usual, but it's not elite talent and you're still green. Redshirt all but the most elite freshmen. Get to a bowl! Win six games and change the recruiting pitch from PT to "help us get over the hump".
• Year Five: Ramp up recruiting; with depth on the team you can now focus on building a smaller but more talented classes. On the field, you're RS-Jr / RS-S' dominated, with a smattering of RS and true freshmen rounding out the roster. You still do not have elite talent (remember, these were top 25 classes, not top 10), but you now have the talent and the depth to compete with most of the teams in the SEC. Aim at 8 wins and a mid-tier bowl. Next year, though, is your year.
• Year Six: Team is dominated by RS-Sr's, RS-Jr's, and RS-So's. RS-Fr' shave to really be talented to get PT. You have the luxury of redshirting virtually all of your incoming freshmen. JC kids are only recruited for depth or attrition of a specific position--not as a "God I hope he can start" stopgap. This team has excellent depth, experience, and more talent than 95% of most UK teams.
• Now, at this point you have not "arrived"; you are merely a 8 to 10 win team. If you can maintain that level, then you get to take a shot at starting the whole process over again with top 10 recruiting classes instead of top 25. String three of those together in a row and you may have something special.
  
  Folks, it's at least a six year process. This isn't hoops, where you can get five uber-talented kids and let 'er rip. It takes years, YEARS, of recruiting and developing talent before progress can be made.

Keep moving those goalposts. First it was three years, then four, now it's six. After this season it'll be eight.

Meanwhile, Ole Miss, Vandy, MSU, and others have gone to big bowls.

 

[LowCountryCat]

Who you want and who you gonna get to come here? There is nothing attractive, as you and many others have pointed out about the football program here. How do you convince a Nick Saban, or Urban to come to UK? IF they did come to UK who you think is gonna fill the spots at the traditional power house schools? Easier for them to get the top name that it is UK. They don't rebuild, they reload. We have to BUILD not rebuild, and it's neither fun or fast.

8-5 isn't the ceiling, 8-5 is a goal that you have to reach before you take the next step.

I wanted Petrino. That train's already sailed. And he'll kick our *** again. We're stuck with Stoops, and we're going to suck.

And yes, 8-5 IS the ceiling for reasons already stated. As long as we have Stoops, he won't coach them up, and he won't recruit even middle of the SEC ranked classes.

 

[LowCountryCat]

We are NOT a respectable power 5 program!!! We don't have the ability to just drop coaches and pick up a proven HC. Where the F&*% have all of the people that want to fire Stoops after this season (if he's doesn't reach a bowl) been?? Besides the Brooks years, and a couple of years with Mumme, this program has been pathetic for the better part of 40 years. Programs like ours do not get proven HC's, we have to take flyers on DCs and OCs and hope they develop into HCs... Or, we take guys at the ends of their careers and hope to get a few decent years out of them before they retire, which of course brings us back to where we are now. If you think 1 year of having your own players is enough time to give a developing HC (to determine if he's going to be our future HC), then you might as well quit following UK football, because once you get rid of Stoops, you'll deal with this same process all over again. If this type of discussion is happening in 2 more seasons, which would give CMS 3 complete years with his players and system in place, then that would be an entirely different story. At that time, you cut him loose and start over from scratch.

What's Einstein's definition of insanity?