If you were to build all new public schools. & double teachers pay.
- Thread starter TopCatCal
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If you were to give your employees great healthcare, lots of holidays and a big raise, would that increase their output?
Depends on how the money is spent.
If the teachers pay is doubled, are they merely doubling the current teachers pay or are they going to be actively recruiting higher quality teachers? Or a combination of both?
And would the new schools be the same thing as before, just in a newly built structure, or would they be built to enhance and improve the learning environment?
If the teachers pay is doubled, are they merely doubling the current teachers pay or are they going to be actively recruiting higher quality teachers? Or a combination of both?
And would the new schools be the same thing as before, just in a newly built structure, or would they be built to enhance and improve the learning environment?
Depends on how hot the teachers are.
The buildings mean nothing to the educational process. Increasing pay would only help if you got rid of the unions and made it performance based.
No. To improve educational attainment we need for the parents to:
- Put academic success at the very top of their expectations for their kids,
- encourage their kids to work hard and accept nothing but success.
- If the kids are behind they need to tutor their kids or pay for tutoring - even if it takes money away from other things.
- Pull kids from sports and recreational things if their grades aren't EXEMPLARY. Sports should be reserved for kids who have their academic house in order.
- OWN your kid's achievement. If your kid is bringing home bad grades you should feel ashamed and motivated to do something about it.
Money can take care of some problems but it all starts at home. If a child is not getting good parenting no amount of money in the world is going to magically make that kid educated and develop the desire to put in the work needed to be a success.
Would better paid, and thus happier teachers be more motivated and concerned about the success of their students?
Would an increase in pay make more college students pursue a teaching degree, giving schools a bigger (and therefore more talented) applicant pool to choose from when hiring their new teachers?
Would an increase in pay make more college students pursue a teaching degree, giving schools a bigger (and therefore more talented) applicant pool to choose from when hiring their new teachers?
Nope. Not until parents start giving a **** about their kids again.
No they would grow accustomed to it then demand more for less. Hire teachers who have a passion to teach.
So you know that more money equals happier teachers? Get progressivism out of education like putting behavior problem kids where they belong in a jail cell
Isn't the U.S. like 2nd in money spent per pupil and 27th, or whatever, in results (however ranked)?
Apparently, continuing to throw money at our educational system isn't getting much done.
Apparently, continuing to throw money at our educational system isn't getting much done.
We already pay too much for education, based on the return we get for our tax dollar. Whenever we read comparisons of educational performance amongst industrialized nations, the US of A ranks anyway from average to horrible, depending on the subject.
I wish we had more opportunities to open up education to more competition. Teachers’ unions and policies of teaching to state-wide standardized tests are just a couple of major problems.
I wish we had more opportunities to open up education to more competition. Teachers’ unions and policies of teaching to state-wide standardized tests are just a couple of major problems.
The typical answer to fixing public schools is 'more money, higher teacher pay'. BS is what I call that. The US already spends a ton more per student than almost every other developed country and you can argue we get less bang for the buck.
Teachers, in many states (and my state of CO is prime example), are underpaid. Some of that is supply and demand, some of it is education is an easier degree to attain than some others whose graduates have much higher starting and cumulative compensation. Teachers' pay is somewhat understated in that many have more time off, pensions funded by taxpayers and significantly more job security than those in the private sector. However, starting salaries in Denver/Boulder (high cost of living areas) are in the mid-30s. When 1-BR apartments are $1000/mo+ and 'starter' homes average in the high $300k range, $35k is a pretty underwhelming starting salary. And, they don't get more than a 1-2% raise annually so they're falling further behind the possibility of owning a home in the area because home prices have risen > 8% annually for the past 5-10 years.
The public schools cannot substitute for good parenting. What they can do is refuse to accept students who cannot speak English. How much time, effort and money is spent in public schools attempting to equip some students with basic reading and speaking skills? (Not to mention the idiocy of 4-year universities offering remedial courses to students - why are there students in college who need remedial math, English and reading?) There should be a place for those needing those skills to obtain them but not in the public school system. There should be an emphasis on the basics and less on feel-good pop psychology. Unions don't help the quality of schools but tend to protect the teachers who are not performing. There should be grades for everyone. I don't believe humans need so much coddling and ego boosting that receiving a 'D' on a math quiz will derail a kid's life. Maybe more kids will be self-motivated to kick their schoolmates asses on the next math quiz rather than seek out a safe place to pet a puppy.
Teachers, in many states (and my state of CO is prime example), are underpaid. Some of that is supply and demand, some of it is education is an easier degree to attain than some others whose graduates have much higher starting and cumulative compensation. Teachers' pay is somewhat understated in that many have more time off, pensions funded by taxpayers and significantly more job security than those in the private sector. However, starting salaries in Denver/Boulder (high cost of living areas) are in the mid-30s. When 1-BR apartments are $1000/mo+ and 'starter' homes average in the high $300k range, $35k is a pretty underwhelming starting salary. And, they don't get more than a 1-2% raise annually so they're falling further behind the possibility of owning a home in the area because home prices have risen > 8% annually for the past 5-10 years.
The public schools cannot substitute for good parenting. What they can do is refuse to accept students who cannot speak English. How much time, effort and money is spent in public schools attempting to equip some students with basic reading and speaking skills? (Not to mention the idiocy of 4-year universities offering remedial courses to students - why are there students in college who need remedial math, English and reading?) There should be a place for those needing those skills to obtain them but not in the public school system. There should be an emphasis on the basics and less on feel-good pop psychology. Unions don't help the quality of schools but tend to protect the teachers who are not performing. There should be grades for everyone. I don't believe humans need so much coddling and ego boosting that receiving a 'D' on a math quiz will derail a kid's life. Maybe more kids will be self-motivated to kick their schoolmates asses on the next math quiz rather than seek out a safe place to pet a puppy.
We already spend more per student than any other first world nation. So throwing more money at the problem isn't the solution.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/
No, I don’t know that. It’s just something to consider. I think it’s possible but who knows.
I would hope for hotter looking naughty ones.
The 2 best chances to improve education is
1. Do like Japan and make it strict
2. government pays for video info-tainment lessons and forces schools to go more that route ..... to make learning fun . Many kids think school is boring... and even though I liked learning.... only a third of my teachers made it fun.... and the rest I learned more from reading my books on my own than them trying to teach me.
.. But teachers salaries need to be at least 30K a year.
1. Do like Japan and make it strict
2. government pays for video info-tainment lessons and forces schools to go more that route ..... to make learning fun . Many kids think school is boring... and even though I liked learning.... only a third of my teachers made it fun.... and the rest I learned more from reading my books on my own than them trying to teach me.
.. But teachers salaries need to be at least 30K a year.
Wow, it's like diminishing marginal returns is a REAL thing and more money after more money isn't the answer.
How many people treat work like a social function? Group lunches, playing grab *** around the office, let's have a shower because someone got knocked up and her coworkers get to do her job for 8 weeks.
Their kids approach school the same way. Place to hang out, socialize, flirt, and relive the parents' glory days with extracarricular activities. Meanwhile, they're being shepherded by folks who don't understand the time value of money that parrot everything they're told by the KEA.
Home schoolers are a bit off, but they have a point.
How many people treat work like a social function? Group lunches, playing grab *** around the office, let's have a shower because someone got knocked up and her coworkers get to do her job for 8 weeks.
Their kids approach school the same way. Place to hang out, socialize, flirt, and relive the parents' glory days with extracarricular activities. Meanwhile, they're being shepherded by folks who don't understand the time value of money that parrot everything they're told by the KEA.
Home schoolers are a bit off, but they have a point.
But extracurriculars are an important part of the educational process. That's why they are weighed in college admissions departments for admission and scholarship decisions.
We are talking about govt here. So, first they'd find a way to push the money to the board.
2. Dont just offer higher pay...and dont do what they do now which is give raises on tenure. Incentivize. Those that use creativity and can show they improve students experience get raises. Just bc you've been there a long time doesnt make you a better teacher. And while you may be able to recruit more ppl into teaching prove yourself...just paying them more without cause will just resort to them teaching ppl to be able to pass tests like it already is. Again, its gov....if you have no reason to produce revenue or profit, you have no reason to work harder, be efficient, or creative...you just ask the govt to steal more money from taxpayers
2. Dont just offer higher pay...and dont do what they do now which is give raises on tenure. Incentivize. Those that use creativity and can show they improve students experience get raises. Just bc you've been there a long time doesnt make you a better teacher. And while you may be able to recruit more ppl into teaching prove yourself...just paying them more without cause will just resort to them teaching ppl to be able to pass tests like it already is. Again, its gov....if you have no reason to produce revenue or profit, you have no reason to work harder, be efficient, or creative...you just ask the govt to steal more money from taxpayers
I have a good friend in education and we discuss this topic often. He’s on an administrative track and despite what many think, the single most important factor in determining students success is the parental involvement at home. Every study proves that. Not the parental involvement within the school, but at home.
Education and Intelligence are no longer valued here. Especially if it might help certain people.
Smaller schools too. I hate how every high school has to have a graduating class of 1500 now. To easy to get lost in the shuffle.
Too easy to emulate the wrong way. It's like the internet. Back in the day, you wouldn't believe in civil war on July 4th or Jade Helm because that's moron talk. But get around 200 other people who also believe, even in a sea of a thousands, and it's easier to fall out of society's good norms.
We see a generational cycle of poverty and crime in many urban areas. Kids, for whatever reason don't get a good education, so they can't go on to higher education, can find jobs, fall into a life of crime - wash, rinse repeat. That cycle can't be broken until educational systems are improved.
Before another dime is spent, school boards need to look closely at some of the success stories - things that other similar school systems have done that have resulted in significantly better educated kids. In sort model their systems after what has proven to work.
That may not require spending a lot of money, but it may require extension of providing some basic services for kids living in poverty including school meals and mentoring/tutoring services. I'm willing to bet the volunteers could be enlisted to do a lot of those things.
Here is a link that discusses at-risk school success stories
Bottom line is we don't need to throw tons of money at the problem needlessly with fancy new buildings and huge teacher payrolls. School boards can get a lot more bang for the buck if they just invest some time in researching what can work, and put together smart programs to achieving it without having to break the bank in the process.
Before another dime is spent, school boards need to look closely at some of the success stories - things that other similar school systems have done that have resulted in significantly better educated kids. In sort model their systems after what has proven to work.
That may not require spending a lot of money, but it may require extension of providing some basic services for kids living in poverty including school meals and mentoring/tutoring services. I'm willing to bet the volunteers could be enlisted to do a lot of those things.
Here is a link that discusses at-risk school success stories
Bottom line is we don't need to throw tons of money at the problem needlessly with fancy new buildings and huge teacher payrolls. School boards can get a lot more bang for the buck if they just invest some time in researching what can work, and put together smart programs to achieving it without having to break the bank in the process.
Most of the kids living in poverty do so because of single-parent households. THAT'S the cycle that needs to be broken in order to fix the educational system. For whatever reason it is taboo to discuss this particular topic, especially as it concerns the breakdown of the African-American family. Issues resulting from single parent families do not discriminate against race, it just so happens that the number is significantly higher in the black community.
Eastern KY is about as poor of a region as there can be. However, if you look at the list of best schools (testing-wise), it's littered with schools from that region.
KY has a very good Tech School System. Every student doesn’t need to be prepared for college. These should be identified before high school age and the options presented to them.
Definitely a kid in a single parent home is under more stress and less advantaged that a kid in a two parent home regardless of race, and I see no reason that can't be discussed. But realistic what can society or government do in a meaningful way about that?
I think it makes more sense to focus on things that CAN be done and are proven to actually work. If kids become better educated they will become more successful adults, will improve their economic situation over their parents and IMO that will result in more stable family situations.
Really? You don't think there are societal and governmental things that can be done to help reverse this trend? What do you think started it?
You are looking at 70% of black kids being from single-parent homes. That's a massive number and should be the top priority within the black community. Get that under control, then move on to education. Education is simply a symptom of the actual disease.
The kids are the innocent victims of their circumstances. That's why I say focus on the kids. We can do things right now in the near term to improve education which was the topic. Improve education, improves economic situation, and leads to more stable families. It would be great to see family structure stabilize and see more complete family units. I don't see any short term way that can be achieved but if you do please elaborate.
starve people into submission - yea that's a great idea. Why don't you recommend that at your next local school board meeting.
You've got quite an imagination , BTW the topic is about improving the school systems.