I'm just asking, I'm not making a conspiracy complaint, I'm just really interested in how the IHSA put Sterling in the 5a South bracket.
Can anyone offer an explanation?
Can anyone offer an explanation?
IHSA and Sterling in the South
- Thread starter JCHILLTOPPERS
- Start date
JC,
You are not the only one scratching their head on this. I'm guessing the idea of a possible all ESCC state final was not too appealing to the IHSA leadership. I suppose there has also been a historic NW/SE line drawn to have the Chicagoland teams play each other while the others play each other out west and down south.
You are not the only one scratching their head on this. I'm guessing the idea of a possible all ESCC state final was not too appealing to the IHSA leadership. I suppose there has also been a historic NW/SE line drawn to have the Chicagoland teams play each other while the others play each other out west and down south.
So much for objectivity. There (IHSA) description is "the teams in Class 1A through 6A are grouped by the IHSA Office into two halves of 16 teams each, based on the general location of the schools within that class."
Sterling 'from what I see on IHSA site' when they have been in the playoffs along with JCA has never been in the south by themselves. They have both been in the South together a couple times but Sterling has always been considered North of JCA.
Class 5A Boys Football Brackets —
2011-12 JCA- South, Sterling- North
but ended with a private school final- JCA/Montini
Because of the IHSA subjectivity 3 of the better teams in 5A (all private) are in the same quarterfinal. This doesn't add up. There should be some explanation.
Sterling 'from what I see on IHSA site' when they have been in the playoffs along with JCA has never been in the south by themselves. They have both been in the South together a couple times but Sterling has always been considered North of JCA.
Class 5A Boys Football Brackets —
2011-12 JCA- South, Sterling- North
but ended with a private school final- JCA/Montini
Because of the IHSA subjectivity 3 of the better teams in 5A (all private) are in the same quarterfinal. This doesn't add up. There should be some explanation.
Well, according to Bones there would be nothing wrong with this, so I defer to his wisdom.
Sterling is away from the bunched together Chicagoland schools. I surmise the word "South" is a misnomer and only used for expediency as it generally works
"based on the general location of the schools within that class."
There is the key phrase.
There is the key phrase.
http://www.ihsa.org/data/fb/5a.gif
for what it's worth if "true" north/south as you guys call it,then Rich Central should of went south instead of Sterling and you still have JCA and Naz north
for what it's worth if "true" north/south as you guys call it,then Rich Central should of went south instead of Sterling and you still have JCA and Naz north
Agreed. So the questions are: why not send Rich Central South? Why feed the conspiracy theories? Why not allow simple geography to rule the day?
And for those who refer to the phrase "based on the general location of the schools within that class", why adhere to language that is at best vague? Make it hard and fast geography, and the credibility of your organization (IHSA) is better maintained.
Sorry to say but for some out west although a surprise not unexpected. The general one and out compared to SN traipsing all over Illinois in fall doesn't bode well with the folk out here. The road for success in 5A from Sterling, Illinois is not East.
tj60,
I can assure you that the sterling coaching staff was completely surprised that the golden warriors were sent "south". they had assumed they would be in the "north" and playing at tinley park in the first round.
and would you please explain your comment "The general one and out compared to SN traipsing all over Illinois in fall doesn't bode well with the folk out here"? what "folk" are you talking about? it certainly isn't the coaching staff or others associated with the program.
I can assure you that the sterling coaching staff was completely surprised that the golden warriors were sent "south". they had assumed they would be in the "north" and playing at tinley park in the first round.
and would you please explain your comment "The general one and out compared to SN traipsing all over Illinois in fall doesn't bode well with the folk out here"? what "folk" are you talking about? it certainly isn't the coaching staff or others associated with the program.
Then how do you explain LWW being sent to your expedient misnomer? You can't get much closer than LWW and JCA.
There was no good way to get that 15th and 16th team in the second bracket. Even if they took a strict N/S approach you'd be splitting up two teams REALLY close to like 4 other teams. So they split up one team close to the others and take the one outlier who's close to no one.
It sucks what will be viewed as basically the title game is slated for the quarters, but at the end of the day... It's not gonna change, at least for now. Maybe 7a and 8a provide a strong trial run and it gets implemented. What's a 5a look like seeded 1-32, anyways?
It sucks what will be viewed as basically the title game is slated for the quarters, but at the end of the day... It's not gonna change, at least for now. Maybe 7a and 8a provide a strong trial run and it gets implemented. What's a 5a look like seeded 1-32, anyways?
But they were inconsistent in their approach. Sterling was indeed an outlier, but it was far more of an outlier for the southern bracket than the northern bracket. Nevertheless, the IHSA took the outlier Sterling to the far north and west for the southern bracket. Then it went east and south of JCA to put LWW in the south with the outlier. In other words, JCA is closer to the outlier than LWW. Why Sterling and LWW for the south as opposed to Sterling and JCA for the south or LWW and JCA for the south or Rich South and LWW for the south?
Sterling is 330 miles away from the farthest southern bracket school, but it is 130 miles away from the farthest northern bracket school.
This one does not pass the smell test.
Yet, by drive time, that trip to the relative first round and quarters opponents is probably a bit better for Sterling than their possible Rd 1 opponents in the other bracket (who exactly depending on who would get bumped).
Plus just about everyone is far from Marion. Their closest opponent and week one game is 67 miles and then nearly doubles from there.
There was no good way to get 15 and 16 in the second bracket, consistent or not.
Plus just about everyone is far from Marion. Their closest opponent and week one game is 67 miles and then nearly doubles from there.
There was no good way to get 15 and 16 in the second bracket, consistent or not.
I agree, but why choose to be inconsistent?
Rich South and LWW in the south or Sterling and JCA in the south is consistent. Sterling and LWW in the south is a head scratcher.
I agree, but why choose to be inconsistent?
Rich South and LWW in the south or Sterling and JCA in the south would be consistent. Sterling and LWW in the south is a head scratcher.
sure there was - 1-32. For the same reason that PF points have to be used for seeding, 1-32 is the only way to seed without these absurd results.
We all know why 1-32 was only applied to 7-8....when JCA and Naz get into 7a, then all classes with be 1-32 im sure.
Well 1-32 presumes there is no second bracket... but yes, I think everyone knows 1-32 is the preferred method. And should also understand it ain't gonna happen.... at least yet.
Look at it this way, if JCA and Naz keep meeting in the quarters, only one can be success factored up!
I agree with you that this would have made the most sense from a geographic standpoint.
You would still have your crowded North bracket, but, it would be easier to defend.
It's more like they are making an "Urban Division" and a "Rural Division", which is probably really what they are doing to some extent.
Takes all the fun out of the playoffs. I would have loved to goto Sterling and play a game. Now our road may be one of all teams we have played in the last 3-4 years sans CPS schools. BORING.
Here's a projected 5A round 2 for 1-32 scenario, for this exercise let's assume the top 16 advance:
Potential title game in round 2 with LWW/JCA, no matter how you cut it up, half of this board would be haters & the other half in Lagrange Park would be in love!
Top
#16 Tinley Park @ #1 Washington
#9 Centralia @ #8 Highland
#13 Metamora @ #4 Chicago Lindblom
#12 Lincoln-Way West @ #5 Joliet Catholic
Bottom
#15 Nazareth Academy @ #2 Chicago Westinghouse
#10 Chicago King @ #7 Champaign Central
#14 Marian Central Catholic @ #3 Troy Triad
#11 St. Laurence @ #6 Peoria Central
May the best ESCC program advance the way it is now!
Ah looks like you beat me by minutes. Here's the whole field of 32 (we have Troy and Lindblom swapped). Agree a LWW, JCA second round is just as bad if not worse than Naz-JCA Quarter. Still this is the only way to do the bracket. It looks pretty good.
1 Washington
32 Bartonville
16 Tinley Park
17 Sterling
8 Highland
25 Rich Central
9 Centralia
24 Jacksonville
4 Troy
29 Solorio
13 Metamora
20 Dunlap
5 JCA
28 Vernon Hills
12 LWW
21 Marion
2 Westinghouse
31 Mattoon
15 Nazareth
18 Payton
7 Champaign
26 Normal
10 King
23 Eisenhower
3 Lindblom
30 Glenbard S
14 MCC
19 Sycamore
6 Peoria
27 DuSable
11 St Laurence
22 Belvidere
1 Washington
32 Bartonville
16 Tinley Park
17 Sterling
8 Highland
25 Rich Central
9 Centralia
24 Jacksonville
4 Troy
29 Solorio
13 Metamora
20 Dunlap
5 JCA
28 Vernon Hills
12 LWW
21 Marion
2 Westinghouse
31 Mattoon
15 Nazareth
18 Payton
7 Champaign
26 Normal
10 King
23 Eisenhower
3 Lindblom
30 Glenbard S
14 MCC
19 Sycamore
6 Peoria
27 DuSable
11 St Laurence
22 Belvidere
Good call.....Roadrunner home cookin + upbeat start could = up "hill" battle for JCA (pun intended)
You noticed that too, eh Snetsrak61? Naz gets a CPL team in round 2, while JC probably gets MCC for a second time. Naz' first round opponent is no gimme, though. And, look at it this way Naz fans: if MCC beats Belvidere and then JCA, you get to head back up to lovely Woodstock, and that field that Jwar holds in such high regard.
Yes, 1-32 is still going to provide some difference in perceived difficulty for the higher seeds.
All you need to do is look in 7A at the path to the semis for GW in comparison to Geneva.
There would still be complaining, but at least there would be a consistent system.
All you need to do is look in 7A at the path to the semis for GW in comparison to Geneva.
There would still be complaining, but at least there would be a consistent system.
No, it's actually more like a public division and a private division, thereby assuring there will be no all-private 5A final. They already success factored the one southern private 5A school up to 6A, and the only thing left on their anti-private agenda was to gerrymander the map. Done and done!
Agreed 1-32 is only way to go but even better would be.....
Why doesn't IHSA let the 32 head coaches rank the field like the baseball sectionals? Granted you don't know everything about every school but a quickie look at each team's tale of the tape should help HCs make decent ranking suggestions. I think it would come together nicely. They can still run through the TV qualifier on Sun evening instead of Sat and this would give them 24 hours to get the HC feedback and post the brackets. Thoughts?
Why doesn't IHSA let the 32 head coaches rank the field like the baseball sectionals? Granted you don't know everything about every school but a quickie look at each team's tale of the tape should help HCs make decent ranking suggestions. I think it would come together nicely. They can still run through the TV qualifier on Sun evening instead of Sat and this would give them 24 hours to get the HC feedback and post the brackets. Thoughts?
Too much room for even more hanky panky.
Baseball plays like three times the number of regular season games as football. Unlike football, most coaches in a baseball sectional will see most of the other teams in that sectional. You can't expect football coaches to take the time to educate themselves well on at least 23 teams that they have not personally seen.
Rumor has it MCC has lost their lawnmower and the sprinklers are stuck on.
Gotta break up the consecutive home games JCA gets in this series somehow. (2015 & 2016)
#1 Your consistent use of Rich South is wrong. Rich Central made the playoffs, not Rich South.
#2 I do think LWW/Rich Central is what was expected based solely on "North/South" divisions. From a geographical point of view, using a north/south dividing line, it is the proper choice. I can understand looking at the 5A map on the IHSA website how they took the outlier Sterling for 5A south. It is closer to Peoria which fields many of the 5A south teams including the Metamora team they are playing in round 1 and Washington which they could play if they advance to round 2. Rich Central is closer to many of the CPL teams in the 5A North Bracket and is closer to St. Laurence who they are playing in round 1 and DuSable/King which would be their 2nd round opponent if they pull off the upset in round 1. That being said, I do agree that there was no way the IHSA was splitting up all the ESCC teams unless they absolutely had no other choice.
# 3 As a LWW fan I am glad it worked out the way it did. If LWW sees JCA/NAZ, it will be in the state finals. I will accept all the additional mileage if it means a longer run in the playoffs.
Its called a DeFacto success f'er...I mean factor. Everyone with a brain knows what went on here, it is so the top two private schools knock each other out before the championship. this should be a Naz-JCA championship. BUT, no, the IHSA does not want that to happen because it would really prove the flaws within the success factor.
Pjjp,
Even their very own NFL alum thinks it's embarrassing. Nothing against the team at all, they're a bunch of good kids that flat out beat our kids week 4. Good luck to everyone with their draw...Sycamore is no slouch to look past this Saturday, so I'll worry about where we are week 3 if we get that far that week!
Even their very own NFL alum thinks it's embarrassing. Nothing against the team at all, they're a bunch of good kids that flat out beat our kids week 4. Good luck to everyone with their draw...Sycamore is no slouch to look past this Saturday, so I'll worry about where we are week 3 if we get that far that week!