I'm not saying they are "bad kids" but didn't they get like 3-4 fanbases worked up on here for chippy play, late hits etc etc. I'm not gonna spend the time looking it up but I know it took place.
IHSA and Sterling in the South
- Thread starter JCHILLTOPPERS
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I'm not saying they are "bad kids" but didn't they get like 3-4 fanbases worked up on here for chippy play, late hits etc etc. I'm not gonna spend the time looking it up but I know it took place.
TPF,
Yeah that's true, I heard about it too, but one or two kids don't make the whole bunch bad in this case
Yeah that's true, I heard about it too, but one or two kids don't make the whole bunch bad in this case
Not a peep out of people when the IHSA split 8A "suspiciously" in 2009 and took a #1 seed away from The Beloved, also giving a 6-3 MC an away game vs a 6-3 Simeon AT GATELY. Not a peep from the tin foil crew. Wonder why
Doesnt support the narrative. Its called confirmation bias, I suggest some people look it up.
I'm pretty sure you were one of them after Marian game. Not saying anything bad about you at all but funny you now think they're "good kids".
I don't know what 2009 is about.Not a peep out of people when the IHSA split 8A "suspiciously" in 2009 and took a #1 seed away from The Beloved, also giving a 6-3 MC an away game vs a 6-3 Simeon AT GATELY. Not a peep from the tin foil crew. Wonder whyDoesnt support the narrative. Its called confirmation bias, I suggest some people look it up.
But I think any complaint about a regionally divided field is an exercise in futility. Every iteration of a regional bracket is worse than 1-32. Always. Forever. No exception. Arguing the specifics... Whatever.
Again, by making JCA and Naz meet in the quarters it ensures one is a year further away from being success factored up. THE IHSA IS TRYING TO KEEP AT LEAST ONE PRIVATE POWERHOUSE IN 5A! It can be spun many was indeed
You are kidding, right?That was the year the IHSA divided 8A by east and west brackets instead of their traditional north-south. I remember quite a hue and cry back then. I was especially ticked off that LA and MC were in the same bracket and had to play each other in round 2 or 3.Not a peep out of people when the IHSA split 8A "suspiciously" in 2009 and took a #1 seed away from The Beloved, also giving a 6-3 MC an away game vs a 6-3 Simeon AT GATELY. Not a peep from the tin foil crew. Wonder whyDoesnt support the narrative. Its called confirmation bias, I suggest some people look it up.
I think what the IHSA did was instead of splitting up Rich Central and JCA they decided to take the one team that doesn't fit anywhere and put them in the South. I honestly don't think it had anything to do with putting JCA south and having an ESCC final (in most likelyhood). They couldn't pick between LWW and JCA and decided to put Sterling in the South which took care of the problem.
I don't want my first post to seem like I'm defending the IHSA but did any of you figure out the breakdown if they drew a straight across north south line? LWW would have been the 7 and Marion the 10 resulting in a one way trip of 250 miles. Swapping out the 2nd furthest south team left (Rich Central) with the outlier (Sterling) solved this, leaving LWW as the furthest south out of the Tinley Park, JCA, and Rich Central group. Just my 2 cents. Very possible there were ulterior motives but with one change they saved a 500 mile round trip for a first round game.
Is the IHSA geographically challenged? Just look at the ScoreZone express scoreboard. Last week they had a game with 2 west suburban teams on the Chicago portion of scores. Many times I look at where they post the scores and think do these people even know where the schools are. Numerous examples week in and week out.
I agree, 1-32 is the way to go no questions.
Point is that it's not about anything, but people are going to see what they want to see and complain about it. Look at ramblinmans post below. I highlighted the fact that them cutting 8A differently resulted in taking a #1 seed away from my public school and also gave a 6-3 MC an away game against a 6-3 CPL school at GATELY, and he is complaining about having a possible tough game in the qtr finals. Its silly, no? A conspiracy to give Loyola a tough quarterfinal game in the 8A playoffs? The only thing that can be said about that is some people will not be happy until they dont have any tough games at all and the wussification of America will continue.
Your post sounds as if you are in favor of manipulating the brackets to get the desired result. Truth is until the classes are not split by geography and split by open enrollment/boundary no one is going to be happy.
Right and you completely ignore the fact that instead of likely facing an 8-1 school on the road in rd 1 like they should have, they get a 6-3 CPL school away at the same field they play home games at. All because you dont want a tough 3rd round game, or think that the IHSA should set it up so you could meet a 6-3 MC in the championship. Come on ramblin, you cant be serious right now.
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This is what I was gonna look at next. Thanks for the analysis. A flawed system has... Flaws, but it arguably met its stated goals. Doesn't indicate anything nefarious.
TPF,
You had me guessing there for a second because I make it a practice to say nothing negative about the kids, just my thing. I did go back though and check that thread just to make sure and nope...I ripped the field, gave the refs a wavering thumb, and said the coaches and team made a very good rain delay adjustment to the game plan. I did though hear some of the boys from a few teams make the same comments about a few particular players that I won't name.
You had me guessing there for a second because I make it a practice to say nothing negative about the kids, just my thing. I did go back though and check that thread just to make sure and nope...I ripped the field, gave the refs a wavering thumb, and said the coaches and team made a very good rain delay adjustment to the game plan. I did though hear some of the boys from a few teams make the same comments about a few particular players that I won't name.
For the record, it was a 7-2 Simeon that MC faced, not a "6-3 CPL school." But, don't let the facts get in the way of YOUR narrative, Bones. MC beat Simeon, and they then beat a 10-0 Stevenson in round 2 before losing to Loyola in round 3.
Do you realize what you are arguing? You are suggesting that the IHSA was purposefully cutting MC a break. This is the same MC that took the IHSA to court and won. And when the IHSA appealed that decision, MC won the appeal as well. You can't be serious that the IHSA was looking to give MC an easy playoff road.
20 bucs says: if JCA beats naz and advances to the title game, next offseason the rule becomes, if you get to the title game 2 out of 3 years, you get bumped up...next season, we'll see JCA and Naz in separate sections...
a slight lesson in history.
years ago:
The edgy board and rumblings were never Public vs Private, it was north (north of 80) vs south (south of 80 to include morris).
Public schools and private schools alike were winning titles, but all from the north - and there were 5 then an acceptable 6 classes as the population in Will grew.
To remedy the disparity in the schools near the urban chi area, we got:
1. football enrollment (which was not that bad of thing).
when that did not work as expected we go the statement from the IHSA that, "the playoffs are not here to decide a true champion" not quite the quote, but that is near enough.
then came the ever changing IHSA playoff system.
2. eight classes
3. sometimes north south brackets, sometimes east west
4. the infamous quads
5. the multiplier based on an arbitrary number
6. the only private schools success factor
7. 7-8 1-32, but the rest aren't worthy.
I mean, what is going on here?
Love this time of year. This is NOT a public private things.
a slight lesson in history.
years ago:
The edgy board and rumblings were never Public vs Private, it was north (north of 80) vs south (south of 80 to include morris).
Public schools and private schools alike were winning titles, but all from the north - and there were 5 then an acceptable 6 classes as the population in Will grew.
To remedy the disparity in the schools near the urban chi area, we got:
1. football enrollment (which was not that bad of thing).
when that did not work as expected we go the statement from the IHSA that, "the playoffs are not here to decide a true champion" not quite the quote, but that is near enough.
then came the ever changing IHSA playoff system.
2. eight classes
3. sometimes north south brackets, sometimes east west
4. the infamous quads
5. the multiplier based on an arbitrary number
6. the only private schools success factor
7. 7-8 1-32, but the rest aren't worthy.
I mean, what is going on here?
Love this time of year. This is NOT a public private things.
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Slight mistake a 7-2 CPL school which MC already dominated earlier in the season, and who also lost to another fellow CPL school. Why would the IH$A have MC play an 8-1 in rd one knocking one of their big money makers out of the playoffs early? Oh, its only about the money when it suits your narrative I guess. Yet this is somehow all a plot to knock Loyola out of the playoffs early in the 3rd round somehow. Cant be serious.
It's not just ANY 7-2 CPL school, Bones. We're not talking Taft or Lane here. It's SIMEON. The same Simeon that MC dominated in week one of the regular season played MC to a five point game in round 1 of the playoffs. You are a hoot. I suppose you describe MS as a 7-2 CSL school as well? Hilarious!
Loyola has nothing to do with this. I'm talking about 2015 Class 5A. You are the one foaming at the mouth about 2009 8A.
2015 5A is about gerrymandering the map to keep JCA in the 5A northern bracket with Naz, MCC and Larry and to have a 5A southern bracket without ANY private schools.
What do you mean "This is NOT a public private thing"? Do you mean from your own personal perspective or from the I(P)HSA's perspective. If it's from their perspective, then it certainly IS a private public thing. And when the multiplier was implemented, we were assured that the 1.65 number was NOT arbitrary. The IHSA I believe even had a report available to the press which detailed how they came up with the number. Please correct me if this is incorrect. In any event, at the time this was viewed as the way to even out the non-boundaried (read Catholic) school advantage. Low and behold, because of Montini blowing this apart, the I(P)HSA in its infinite bias decided that we couldn't have this, so along came the "factor". (I refuse to call it "success factor" because that is not what it is about until it applies to ALL). This in no way keeps me from pulling for another Rochester championship to demonstrate just how prejudiced the I(P)HSA is. JCA fans: At the current time I don't really care for any input you may have on this, since it is my understanding (subject to correction if I am wrong) is that your school did not deem it worthy to join the other non-boundaried schools in their complaint regarding the multiplier when it was first proposed.
This is about the confirmation bias of the tin foil hat crew. Regardless of how the brackets came out except all private schools having a cakewalk to the championship would have resulted in this incessant crying.
You come into this thread with the singular goal of shifting the focus away from 2015 5A brackets. First, you talk about 2009 8A brackets. Now you are talking about this being about the tin foil hat crew (whatever the hell that is) wanting ALL private schools to have a cakewalk to the championship...as if that were even possible. Your attempts to redirect the focus look very much to me to be the result of you knowing that the IHSA got caught on this one, and you have no real recourse other than to try to direct people's attention elsewhere.
How about if you simply try addressing the main topic of the thread without the red herrings and the drama? Here, I will try to refocus your attention back on task. See if you can answer the following questions directly:
1. If Sterling in the southern bracket makes sense, why not also include JCA, which is 83 miles to the east and south of Sterling, instead of LWW which is 7 miles farther east and south of JCA?
2. If LWW in the southern bracket makes sense, why not also include JCA, a mere 7 miles away to the west and north of LWW, instead of Sterling which is 83 miles farther west and north of JCA?
As you develop your responses, keep in mind the IHSA parameters on bracketing, which state that, "Once the 32 teams in a particular class are determined, the teams in Class 1A through 6A are grouped by the IHSA Office into two halves of 16 teams each, based on the general location of the schools within that class."
I'll hang up and listen to your answer.
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Once upon a time soneone told me that the school that inputs the score is the one that identifies the region.. no clue if thats true or not..
And of course we have ramblin crying because the IHSA didn't give a Catholic school an advantage.... he has turned into the Jesse Jackson of the IHSA..
You are absolutely right. If they had put Rich Central and LWW in the south, that would have made total geographic sense to me. In that case, you wouldn't have heard a peep from me on this issue.
I am arguing what the IHSA did, which did not follow their own bracketing guidelines. The ONLY way that it makes sense for JCA to be in the south is if you put Sterling in there and you need one more school to round out the field. If you put LWW in there first, it makes NO sense geographically to put Sterling in the south before JCA.
Again, RC and LWW in the south makes sense.
Take a stab at answering the same questions I posed to Bones:
1. If Sterling in the southern bracket makes sense, why not also include JCA, which is 83 miles to the east and south of Sterling, instead of LWW which is 7 miles farther east and south of JCA?
2. If LWW in the southern bracket makes sense, why not also include JCA, a mere 7 miles away to the west and north of LWW, instead of Sterling which is 83 miles farther west and north of JCA?
ramblin...
take the time to figure out total distance traveled and longest drive under each scenario...
now waiting for your answer..
take the time to figure out total distance traveled and longest drive under each scenario...
now waiting for your answer..
IT's a north south thing, not a public private thing.
The ihsa really doesn't care if lwe is good, or whether ms wins another title. They want washington et all in the mix. They publicly proclaimed it before. ..the state playoffs are anot geographical representation. ..they said.
It feels like public private, but that's only because there are very little large 7/8a schools south of 80.
Public schools have done just fine in the larger classes. ..and foe some time, ruled the roost.
Southern schools sans shg and Roch have done very little in the mid to upper classes, and the ihsa wants that changed.
That's impossible to do without knowing the outcome of every game. In looking at the 1st two rounds Sterling traveling to Tinley Park then Glenbard South 213 Miles. Sterling to Metamora then Washington 190. They didn't make a change based on 23 mile. What happens then in the south if they have to goto #4 Highland that trip alone is 240 miles.
IHSA is made up of central Illinois people, they looked at travel distance, not how good JCA, Sterling, LWW and Rich Central are..
I actually don't disagree entirely with this.
I do however think they care about woofer state representation. That Shld not be their job.
And according to their thought process and membership seems to be in agreement or it would change.. its not their objective to balance the brackets..
LWW and Rich Central in the south makes a long round one trip to LWW for Marion. If you look at the spirit of the rule, which is really about limiting travel time, I think these pairings can make a very good case versus other outcomes.
Rambln;
As I said before, if you are going to make a geographic north/south argument the only one is LWW and RC in the south. I don't see the point in discussing a bunch of other hypothetical situations unless your goal is something other than using the geographical boundaries.
I don't see much point of discussing hypothetical situations either.
But, these aren't hypothetical situations.
Fourteen of the 16 schools in one of the 5A brackets are located in central and southern Illinois. That's a fact. Two of the 16 are schools located in northern Illinois (LWW and Sterling). That's a fact. If you aren't going to take the 16th southernmost schools in 5A (the 14 from central and southern IL plus LWW and RC) and place them in the same bracket, then at least in whatever other way the IHSA used to form the bracket, they should have followed their own parameters for bracketing. They didn't, and that's a fact, too.
"Once the 32 teams in a particular class are determined, the teams in Class 1A through 6A are grouped by the IHSA Office into two halves of 16 teams each, based on the general location of the schools within that class."
There is no way the IHSA can claim it followed their own bracketing parameters in 5A. And that's a fact.
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LWW is going to have to travel rd 2 to Triad 255 Miles followed by a 246 mile journey to Centralia. 1000 miles in 2 weeks. Ouch.
I'd turn the sprinklers on and let them run for a week and then bring in our top officiating crew !!!!!!!
Rambln;
Excellent, now we are making some real progress. It's good to know that we are both in complete agreement if 5A was divided by a north/south bracket that LWW and RC would be in the south.
The one thing that I do notice is that if we use the above from the IHSA site, "grouped by the IHSA Office into two halves of 16 teams each, based on the general location of the schools within that class."
I don't see any mention of north/south, I only see "general location of the schools within that class".
I hope this doesn't throw a wrench into our discussion.
No wrench at all. But, it does make what the IHSA did in 5A even more perplexing. They neither went according to straight north-south geography, nor did they stay in the same general location. If they had stayed in the same general location, then they should have taken LWW and JCA or LWW and RC. If they were hell bent on Sterling in that non-Chicago area bracket, then the closest school among the southernmost northern 5A schools is JCA, not LWW.
You gotta understand, for rambling the only correct bracket is the one where the schools he supports don't have any tough games until they meet each other in the championship. The actual bracket is irrelevant to the crying, its merely the gun to begin the race.
I have already pointed out that this "north/South" thing is not accurate, it is just how we have simplified it. It has already been explained why it is reasonable that Sterling be put in the "south" bracket. That explanation is unacceptable to him as it doesn't help his conspiracy theory, so he can complain when he should be applying Occam's razor to his whole theory.
It's a tiresome dance every year to twist every matchup into some ploy to make private schools play in the qtr finals instead of the championship for which they've all been anointed. But alas it is a two step we still engage in.
I have already pointed out that this "north/South" thing is not accurate, it is just how we have simplified it. It has already been explained why it is reasonable that Sterling be put in the "south" bracket. That explanation is unacceptable to him as it doesn't help his conspiracy theory, so he can complain when he should be applying Occam's razor to his whole theory.
It's a tiresome dance every year to twist every matchup into some ploy to make private schools play in the qtr finals instead of the championship for which they've all been anointed. But alas it is a two step we still engage in.