I'll leave this here.
- Thread starter Wizard.sixpack
- Start date
Eh, it's a little misleading because 9-3 Alcorn St inflates ours a bit. Most other teams played opponents as weak as ASU but with much worse records. You flip their record to 2-10 and those numbers don't look near as lopsided.
But this year was still a tough schedule.
But this year was still a tough schedule.
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+1. Tough OOC scheduling only helps out teams in BCS bowl contention. It's another "tie breaker" stat to look at. For a middle tier team, it just means another loss. Even if we would have won that game, it probably would not have change our bowl game enough to matter. The only thing it would have done is given us a little more momentum going into the Auburn game. I can argue that any victory the week before would have done that as well.
Thats kind of the way its been Franklins 3 yrs there. I'm in the minority on him I'm sure but I'm not sold on him. He's obviously better than anybody else they've had there but I won't be on his wagon till wins some big ones or goes elsewhere and does it again. I just didn't see it when he was mentioned at USC, TX, etc
What did the Oklahoma State game cost us this year? We essentially got two bowl game payouts in 2013 because of it.
That is the one positive but it could have cost us the "4 straight bowl games". I don't care if it's a lower tier bowl game - there is something good about going to bowl games. I would rather go to them than not. It's a difference in philosophy. You want to play some games that test us. I don't want to sacrifice the possibility of a win in the OOC to play a better team until we win 8-9 consistently.
So, if we would have lost the Egg Bowl the problem would have been ending a bowl streak? Not staring down the barrel of 3 straight Egg Bowl losses in 2014?
There is still something you can sell if we would have lost the EggBowl. Or if we would have lost to Arkansas. I want to maximize the opportunity to make a bowl game every year. As I said - difference in philosophy.
It sure as hell would have been one of the problems. What if we'd lost the Arkansas game and won the Egg Bowl. Bottom line is, playing OK St. didn't really hurt us this year (although it did put us in Memphis instead of Nashville). But it almost did.
There is zero, zip, zilch, nada reason to schedule a team picked to win their BCS conference. We already play one of the toughest schedules in the country. I'd rather have more wins than a quality loss. We're not a small conference team needing someone to buy our game to help our budget. Winning helps our budget by merchandise sales, and donations.
I can think of $2million reasons to do it actually. Plus, it's not like we scheduled that game in June of 2013.
5 of our losses came from teams ranked from #2 to #16. It ended up being an insane schedule. We still aren't good enough to pull out a win against just one of these opponents but we were good enough to hang with them for at least the first half this year and through nearly the entire game for a couple of them.
I have been on the fence all season about Mullen. Fortunately in the last half of the season he showed that he was able to get the confidence of the team back and he coached us to a couple of desperately needed wins. I am still scratching my head about the way he runs the offense and the horrendous special teams play. If we had a better game plan on offense and had just not sucked on special teams, we could have won at least two of those 5.
I have been on the fence all season about Mullen. Fortunately in the last half of the season he showed that he was able to get the confidence of the team back and he coached us to a couple of desperately needed wins. I am still scratching my head about the way he runs the offense and the horrendous special teams play. If we had a better game plan on offense and had just not sucked on special teams, we could have won at least two of those 5.
It could still mean the difference between a winning season and a losing season. It is still possible for us to go 6-7.
I understand DS's point. Why sacrifice a 4th bowl appearance if you don't have to, but you have to test yourself out of conference some and see how your measure up outside your comfort zone. Even though we lost, we aquitted ourselves well at a nice venue with major exposure.
To use an analogy.....It's like having a 2 handicap at one course in golf without ever playing anywhere else. You're not really a two handicap if you can't take that game to another course on a different style of play. I think we get really used to playing SEC foes, so it is a real challenge to match up with a Big 12 run and gun team. If we could have mustered any offense we would have beaten them. The OSU ppl around me were worried and depressed that their prolific offense was shut down. Scoring 21 was a major disappointment to them.
To use an analogy.....It's like having a 2 handicap at one course in golf without ever playing anywhere else. You're not really a two handicap if you can't take that game to another course on a different style of play. I think we get really used to playing SEC foes, so it is a real challenge to match up with a Big 12 run and gun team. If we could have mustered any offense we would have beaten them. The OSU ppl around me were worried and depressed that their prolific offense was shut down. Scoring 21 was a major disappointment to them.
The problem is gambling a guaranteed $2M payout to play them in the beginning of the season with the money received from a potential bowl at the end of the season. You also have to consider that the $2M is gambling away the potential momentum of another bowl game, bowl game practices, and recruiting effects of being in a bowl game.
If $2M is worth it to you, then so be it. Most here just don't agree with you. Your risk tolerane is clearly higher.
If $2M is worth it to you, then so be it. Most here just don't agree with you. Your risk tolerane is clearly higher.
Alabama played an 0-12 Georgia St team. Tenn & Vandy both played an 0-12 Austin Peay. Kentucky played 0-12 Miami Oh. Georgia played 4-8 App St.
Those were just as much gimme games as Alcorn St but it significantly throws off the strength of schedule if you just look at records.
Those were just as much gimme games as Alcorn St but it significantly throws off the strength of schedule if you just look at records.
No they don't. The alternative would have been to play a SWAC or Sunbelt school, and betting either of those wouldn't have done anything for our program. We don't gain momentum by beating those team. It doesn't fire up our fan base. They are absolutely meaningless.
I understand it would have put us in better position for a Liberty Bowl appearance, but what bowl games did Auburn and Missouri play in last year again?
I understand it would have put us in better position for a Liberty Bowl appearance, but what bowl games did Auburn and Missouri play in last year again?
Our Liberty Bowl revenue is going to be split 16 ways with us keeping 2 of the shares. I will ask again, if bowl appearance matter so much, how can you explain Missouri in 2013?
How much momentum did we gain from losing to OSU? How fired up did that make our fanbase? What did we gain from that loss? I'll answer. Everything that came out of that game was negative, except the paycheck. We lost the game, we looked like crap, we lost guys to injuries, we questioned our coaching staff.......all bad. Even a SWAC game where you win 56-7 you at least get a W and even if you get NO momentum, NO gauge of how good you are, NO fired up fanbase.....zero is more than negative.
I will agree with you that there is minimal gain from beating a SWAC school (still more than a Top 15 loss). But as the bottom of the FBS seem to perhaps get a little closer to the schools in the middle, there's nothing at all with a Sun Belt win. It's not an SEC quality win, but beating Troy, ULM, South Alabama, Western Kentucky, ULL, and Arkansas State is not just a given for us any more. Or Kentucky, or Arkansas, or Tennessee, or Auburn, or Florida. There are multiple examples of Sun Belt teams winning or nearly winning in the last few years. While our fanbase may not get fired up about a win over one of those teams, perhaps they should.
Regarding the bowls, to me that should be an easy question. Would you rather say that we are going to X Bowl, or that we didn't qualify for a bowl this year? Auburn and Missouri have nothing to do with that. Either of them would have traded places with us last year and gone to the Gator Bowl with 8 wins. So they were great teams this year. Good for them. I care about Mississippi State. When someone you know asks you how State did this year and what bowl are they in, would you rather say "This year we are going to the Liberty Bowl" or "We went 5-7 this year so we aren't going to a bowl." Sure we would all like to be better, but it is what it is right now in the SEC. We just played the hardest schedule in the country and won six games. With a break or two here and there (and taking advantage of those breaks) we might could have won a couple of more. But we still won six and I think 99.99% of the fanbase feels better going into 2014 than we did coming into 2013, and winning the Liberty Bowl would only move the excitement meter a little higher.
I will agree with you that there is minimal gain from beating a SWAC school (still more than a Top 15 loss). But as the bottom of the FBS seem to perhaps get a little closer to the schools in the middle, there's nothing at all with a Sun Belt win. It's not an SEC quality win, but beating Troy, ULM, South Alabama, Western Kentucky, ULL, and Arkansas State is not just a given for us any more. Or Kentucky, or Arkansas, or Tennessee, or Auburn, or Florida. There are multiple examples of Sun Belt teams winning or nearly winning in the last few years. While our fanbase may not get fired up about a win over one of those teams, perhaps they should.
Regarding the bowls, to me that should be an easy question. Would you rather say that we are going to X Bowl, or that we didn't qualify for a bowl this year? Auburn and Missouri have nothing to do with that. Either of them would have traded places with us last year and gone to the Gator Bowl with 8 wins. So they were great teams this year. Good for them. I care about Mississippi State. When someone you know asks you how State did this year and what bowl are they in, would you rather say "This year we are going to the Liberty Bowl" or "We went 5-7 this year so we aren't going to a bowl." Sure we would all like to be better, but it is what it is right now in the SEC. We just played the hardest schedule in the country and won six games. With a break or two here and there (and taking advantage of those breaks) we might could have won a couple of more. But we still won six and I think 99.99% of the fanbase feels better going into 2014 than we did coming into 2013, and winning the Liberty Bowl would only move the excitement meter a little higher.
Going to a bowl the previous year is not a necessary condition for success the following year. Don't be so obtuse. You know it isn't necessary and you also should know you aren't making a very good point with this silly line of questions. If a team had to go to a bowl the previous year to be successful the following year, then no team would ever become bowl eligible that wasn't already bowl eligible previously. It is a retarded example.
Continually going to a bowl game and getting extra practice each year, as well as your school's brand on TV for a 13th time, is surely a sufficient condition to building a program for the long term.
It's Mullen's job to get the team ready to play - not Stricklin's. This thread is about rather or not it was a mistake to schedule Oklahoma State. You can't fault Stricklin for Mullen's shortcomings that game.
My point is bowl games are the wrong measuring stick to use to judge progress at MSU. It's games against Auburn, Oklahoma State, OM, A&M (who wasn't that great this year), LSU (who wasn't that great this year), South Carolinas of the world that show us where we are as a program. It's not making the Liberty Bowl/BBVA bowl. We have that backwards as a fan base. The reason people got upset about the OSU game is because it could potentially cost us a bowl game. But for OSU to cost us a bowl appearance we had to lose to Auburn, OM, A&M, LSU, and South Carolina. We have our priorities backwards.
It's time we start using 'finishes in the top 25' and 'wins against top 25' to define progress at this school. If we do, the little-league-trophy-bowl will take care of itself.
My point is bowl games are the wrong measuring stick to use to judge progress at MSU. It's games against Auburn, Oklahoma State, OM, A&M (who wasn't that great this year), LSU (who wasn't that great this year), South Carolinas of the world that show us where we are as a program. It's not making the Liberty Bowl/BBVA bowl. We have that backwards as a fan base. The reason people got upset about the OSU game is because it could potentially cost us a bowl game. But for OSU to cost us a bowl appearance we had to lose to Auburn, OM, A&M, LSU, and South Carolina. We have our priorities backwards.
It's time we start using 'finishes in the top 25' and 'wins against top 25' to define progress at this school. If we do, the little-league-trophy-bowl will take care of itself.
State has plenty of opportunities every year to compete against top 20 teams...it's called the SEC. Why add another into the fold? When we get to where we beat some of fellow SECW opponrnents regularly then schedule someone like OSU. And D@A nailed it.
Good point. It didn't cost us anything. Memphis is a hell of a place for a bowl game. Now if Redmond wasn't the mesiah that removed all this infractions for all recruits and Dak was our day 1 starter we beat OK State anyway.
We had the 8th toughest schedule in the country this year according to Sagarin. We've been in the top 10 multiple times in recent years. We're not a good enough program that we should be consistently playing top 10 schedules. What kind of dubmass would want us to play that tough of a schedule?
It's not about making our schedule tougher, my point is that we have to beat the top teams in the conference.
Everyone got pissed about scheduling OSU because I meant a 2-6 SEC record wasn't good enough. Two and fvcking 6! Every season that ends with a 2-6 SEC record is a failure. A complete failure. The Consolation Bowl isn't good enough to cover up losing 6 out of 8 SEC games.
Everyone got pissed about scheduling OSU because I meant a 2-6 SEC record wasn't good enough. Two and fvcking 6! Every season that ends with a 2-6 SEC record is a failure. A complete failure. The Consolation Bowl isn't good enough to cover up losing 6 out of 8 SEC games.