I'm generally unimpressed with...

Grumpyolddawg

Heisman
Jun 11, 2001
28,381
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My point is this...heard it in 2014 on the Louisville defense when Dunn, Philon, Preston Brown, Marcus Smith-(1st Team All American and 1st Round NFL Pick) and Calvin Pryor-(another NFL 1st Round Pick) to go with changing defensive scheme...the Louisville defense was going to fall apart...it didn't happen...those 5 players are now collecting Paychecks in the NFL to go with losing 4 year starter Hakeem Smith.

Heard it last year when their replacements-(Holliman, Sample, Mauldin, Gaines, Mount-and Mount wasn't a starter in 2013 and DuBose left). That defense finished still in the Top 20.

So in a year in which instead of either losing 6 or more starters on defense and or learning a completely new scheme now we have more concerns than we did the past 2 years heading into 2016 with returning more ppl on defense then we had in 2014 & 2015...ok, if you say so, ain't buying it...Athlon ain't buying your concerns either....BTW, if any school has questions on defense it more likely Kentucky Not Louisville...Kentucky only returns 4 Starters on a defense that finished 59th Nationally...Louisville returns 7/8 Starters from a defense that finished 18th Nationally...from the above link:

20. Louisville

Reason for Hope:
The Cardinals finished 2015 on a tear with wins in six out of their last seven games. Quarterback Lamar Jackson is a rising star, and the supporting cast returns intact at running back and receiver. There’s reason to believe the offensive line will take a step forward after struggling last year. Eight starters return on a defense that should be one of the best in the ACC.

Here is another one just came out...Bleacher Report...Louisville 13th...their take on the returning defense...National rags just see it more my way than yours:

Combined with a strong returning unit on defense, including several players who easily could have made the jump to the pros but opted to come back, Louisville joins established powers Clemson and Florida State in making the ACC Atlantic one of the most top-heavy divisions in FBS.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...tball-rankings-spring-practice-top-25/page/14



Thanks for the reply...the returning kicks is very interesting for someone his size...shows he should be pretty athletic with good agility and quickness for a OLB....especially for someone that is in McCrae case 6-5 240 plus pounds.

Well he was only in the 215-220 range then, but still pretty impressive athlete for that size to be the kick returner for his team. He is a good player, big athletic with good quickness and speed by him returning kicks. One of the smaller classifications, I can't remember if A or AA, by far the best player on his HS team either way.
 
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Michigan Fan

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Well he was only in the 215-220 range then, but still pretty impressive athlete for that size to be the kick returner for his team. He is a good player, big athletic with good quickness and speed by him returning kicks. One of the smaller classifications, I can't remember if A or AA, by far the best player on his HS team either way.

Again Thank you for the input....hopefully he can soften the blow with our pass rusher Trayvon Young out for 2016 with a hip injury....also thanks for the input on Wiggins-(which you were correct)...decent player but not the "4*" his HS rating suggest.
 

Oldtrainer_rivals

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Admit I don't keep up with UofL roster. Have read for past ten years by Cards bloggers on this site how much better their subs and incoming recruits are over the players that are leaving! Far as UGA, imo their new coach is a home run hire and will take a well stocked squad and may well win or finish second in The SEC East.
 

Grumpyolddawg

Heisman
Jun 11, 2001
28,381
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Admit I don't keep up with UofL roster. Have read for past ten years by Cards bloggers on this site how much better their subs and incoming recruits are over the players that are leaving! Far as UGA, imo their new coach is a home run hire and will take a well stocked squad and may well win or finish second in The SEC East.

We are pretty thin on offense, Richt wasn't big on recruiting OL, 1 WR with more than 5 catches returning, thin at RB if Chubb isn't back to 100%, Eason is having trouble picking up the offense it seems so qb play will likely not be very good. Defense returns 7 starters including all secondary who took a snap, about 8 of them, both starters at ILB and one starter on the DL. at least 1 true frosh will start on the DL, lost both OLB but their backups played alot and have for 2 years, both have started multiple games due to injuries. If our run D improves the defense could be very good, it will be extremely fast. But you have to make tackles, doesn't matter if you get there quick if you can't get them on the ground. Offense is a big concern, TE is very deep, 3 who played last year and the top TE in 16, so hopefully we take advantage of that. But Lambert is awful, afraid of contract and can't read/won't run through his progression, locks on from the huddle and throws it to that guy.
 

un4getables

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What stuck out to me was #23 Washington State! Just 4 years ago they were one of the only teams worse than us. That's a pretty big jump for a team that's the little brother in their state.
What year is this for him????? maybe 5? Yet some of the posters on here expect Stoops to have already figured out and turned around. I would say both programs were about the same when both coaches took over... Maybe UK being even worse than Washington State....
 

WildCard

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Here's the question for WildCard..although UL is ranked some 40 spits higher than UK, what realistically, would UL's really record be if they played UK's schedule?

You could give them the 3 nonconference wins. You could also(like UK) very likely give them the 4 conference loses to UT,UGA, UF,and BAMA.

That leaves 4 swing games of Vandy at home, Mizzou on the road, USC at home, and Miss St at home. I'll give them Vandy at home (although Vandys defense is better than everyone else on UL'S schedule not named Clemson or FSU) and at least one other win. Vest case they probably win 3 of the 4 but a,legit possibility of going 2 and 2.

That would mean UL's record with UK's schedule is in the 7-4 to 5-6 range. I would think UK is in the 6-5 to 4-7 range. Hardly a difference that justifies a 40 place difference in,rankings.

What say you WildCard and others...what record would UL have with UK's schedule?
Always a fun topic. Those that have posted before me (especially grumpy) have pretty well covered it.

Let's start with a look at the way too early pre-season polls to see what other people (people without a vested interest in either team) think...

Ranking every team is an impossible task but nobody does it better than Steel and Connolly but their numbers won't be available until late this summer. Sure there are misses, some bad, but the point differentials between Steel's Plus/Minus rating when adjusted for home field have been uncannily accurate for summer projections of actual game point spreads in the fall.

That leaves us the "opinion driven" ranking at the moment. In SBNation's way too early Top 25 they compiled the consensus ranking of 13 other way too early rankings to arrive at a preseason ranking of #21 for the Cards. (I know Pike and many others will totally reject that assessment but it is what it is.) ESPN has since moved the Cards just outside their Top 25 (listen to Schlabach's reasoning HERE) but Athlon's previously uncounted release has the Cards at #22. So ESPN's removal of the Cards from the SBNation consensus list seems to be a wash. Of the now 14 sources, 3 project only a Top 5, Top 10 or odds to win the NC. Of the 11 sources that actually offered a preseason Top 25 list the Cards are ranked in 9 of them.

So, at this time, SBNation's consensus rankings seem to be a reasonable starting point for examining 2016 expectations. Only #2 AL (away) and #10 TN (away) are ranked above the Cards; #22 GA (home) and #23 FL (away) sit right behind the Cards.​

Discussion...

This topic is 100% speculation so I'm not going to try to get into game by game detailed match ups, likely improvements and what ifs so early in the year. I'm going to stick with these way too early rankings by presumably objective writers (but definitely not "analysts" of Steel and Connolly's caliber).

These rankings clearly suggest UofL would/should be favored in all 7 games against OOC and non top 25 SEC opponents. Three of the non top 25 SEC games (Vandy, SC and MSU) would be at home. Only rebuilding from scratch MO (new staff, new QB and only 12 returning starters) is on the road. Last season, of those 4 teams, only MSU won more SEC games than did UofL. And the Cards have a sizable advantage in returning players over those 4 teams.

That brings us to the 4 ranked SEC opponents.

Three of those games are on the road in places where the home team seldom loses. Nothing needs to be said about AL. TN has apparently finally recovered from a 10 year drought and expected to return to football relevance. FL is FL despite returning only 10 starters after moving their QB to WR this spring. Cards might have a puncher's chance against TN and FL if at home but wins at Rocky Top and in the Swamp are hard to come by.

That leaves GA. Same situation as FL or TN except the game is at home, GA will have a new staff and likely a new t-FR QB behind center. Furthermore, the Cards may have some revenge motivation from that beat down GA put on them in the 2014 Belk Bowl. A win at PJCS is not out of the question.

I'll go out on a limb here and say the Cards pull of an "upset" against one of these 4 teams.
So if everything breaks out "as expected" I can see UofL winning 7, maybe 8, against UK's schedule. Eight would would require beating a preseason Top 25 SEC team and not being "upset" by any other.

I reserve the right to revisit this opinion after Steel and Connolly release their numbers. [winking]

Peace

 

Pike 96

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I never said he wasn't better than any Louisville back, I said he would have trouble starting for half the teams in the SEC and wouldn't be in the top 2 at several of them. He wouldn't have been top 2 at Bama, UT, UGA and wouldn';t have started at UF, LSU, Arky, UK for sure and may not have started at Vandy or Missouri. If he was that highly thought of he is stupid for staying in college another year and taking a year off his NFL career. .

Records are what they are, factual, was there not a huge drop off from UF UT and even UGA to Missouri and Vandy? Rival weekend the ACC went 3-1 against the SEC, in 14 that same weekend they went 4-0, last 2 years that makes 7-1. I am as big a SEC homer as anyone, but the SEC East is way down from top to bottom and to argue differently is having your head in the sand. All of us played 2 SEC west teams for a combined 3-9, which is the same winning percentage we had against the ACC on Rival Weekend.

I am not saying Stoops needs to win the East this year, what I am saying is he will never see the SEC east any weaker than it has been the last 2-3 years, almost half the teams have complete staff turnovers, huge question marks at crucial positions. He needs to take advantage of that this year, that window isn't going to be open forever. USC got a taste of big success under SOS and they liked it, UT has improved at a fast pace, If UF drops back some they won't hesitate to replace their coach, remember Muschamp had some success early there, UGA fired a coach who was a 9-10 game winner most years. None of those are going to stand still if their recent hires aren't successful. This is Stoops's time to take advantage, if he doesn't that window could close.

If Lambert starts at UGA Kirby could find some heat regardless of the outcome, Lambert is awful and bringing him in is ultimately what cost Richt his job. SC will start a former walkon or a true frosh, UF could very well be starting a true frosh as well, that's almost half the conference. I have no idea who will start at Vandy or Missouri, but UK's qb situation is better than anyone in the division except UT's..

Yes UK will be starting 2 new OT, so will UF, so will UGA, so will USC. To deny it isn't an important year for UK to take a step forward is just ignoring how weak the division is and how many question marks the rest of the division has. I just feel this is the year to make that move, if UK doesn't win at least 7 with all the turnover in staffs and question marks at key positions by almost every other division member THIS YEAR it will be tough to ever get to that point. Things are lined up for this too be the year with only one team with less question marks.

Well thanks for the thoughts from on high...but just because you say it, doesn't necessarily make it gospel to me and make it so. What you initially said was Clemson didn't have a "stud" running back(which is debatable given Gallmans ranking and stats) and still made it to the NC game as one of your supporting reasons why with UL's running QB, they could very likely beat Bama, just like Clemson, UT and OleMiss did or almost did. I reject that comparison, because those three teams clearly had/have better running backs (except OM) AND Olines than UL had and most likely has going forward. Clearly Bama's defensive scheme is vulnerable to a running QB, but you could have Michael Vick back there.. without a significant amount of talent around him to keep their D honest... you aint doing jack against Bama's D from the last couple years.

And here's some color to your rivalry weekend records...for that 1-7 record, FSU was 2-0 against UF, Clemson was 2-0 against USCjr, UL was 2-0 against UK (where we very easily should/could have won both games). Georgia Tech also beat UGA as I'm sure recall on some fluck play. So you had far and away the top 2 ACC schools playing(FSU and CU) and arguably the 3rd best ACC school (UL) beating UF,USC and UK as your clear cut reasoning why UL's ACC schedule would be just as tough as UK's SEC schedule...which was the entire topic of discussion in the FIRST place!
Take the two best teams off both UL's in conference schedule compared to UK's in conference schedule and you tell me which schedule you would rather have.
UL plays NC St, Duke, Syracuse, BC, Virginia, and Wake Forrest. UK plays UGA, UF, USCjr, MSU, Mizzou, and Vandy. Regardless of the SEC East being "down" is there honestly any question as to which schedule would be easier and correspondingly which conference is easier to succeed in?? If you choose to argue it's equal or UL's path is easier just keep it to yourself because you are clearly incapable of being wrong in your own mind and will come up with some additional crap.
As far as UK and Stoops having a window for success in down SEC they need to take advantage of...I agree with you. But your original contention that UK should win "at least" 7 games given the state of the other programs(and staff turnover doesn't have to be a negative- look at UF last year) and more importantly, the fact we had such an advantage at the QB position compared to the other schools in question is just plain wrong and inaccurate. I'll say it again..out returning QB has lots of potential, but he's STARTED 2 GAMES and had thus far thrown more INT's than he has TD's. AND he has less starts than EVERY other SEC team in the East. Those are facts. So despite the turmoil and instability across the SEC East at the QB position, UK surely isn't at a surefire and definitive advantage at the QB position. And there is no way we should be putting iron clad 7+ win expectations around out recently dumpster level program. And that is coming from someone(me) that knows our program, recruting, and roster as well as I assume you know Georgia's. It would clearly be great if we were in a position to take advantage of the state of unrest in our conference, but our QB is an unproven commodity and we are by all accounts a year away. If the window closes by that point...such is life. So thanks for the omnipotence about all things SEC football related, but you be the expert at setting wins for your program and we'll do ours...
All that said, I never denied this is a VERY important year for Stoops and the program. 6 wins or more should be very achievable. But more importantly, we want to see less mistakes than we saw from coaching decisions last year. We want to see an offense that looks well organized, creative, and disciplined. We want to see some physical results from the solid recruiting in how me match up with SEC foes. We want to see clearlt that our players are being developed. If that is there, the wins will come.
And when we have 20 starters returning in 2017 and hopefully a QB who has shown himself SEC quality with a year under his belt.....I'm all good with 7+ expectations..
 

HedleyLamarr

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Oct 23, 2007
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Did you include playing Kentucky, Wildcard? Beating everybody not ranked and one of four ranked would make Louisville 9-3 against Kentucky's schedule. That is probably the same as most unbiased analysts would expect against their own schedule.
 

Pike 96

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Always a fun topic. Those that have posted before me (especially grumpy) have pretty well covered it.

Let's start with a look at the way too early pre-season polls to see what other people (people without a vested interest in either team) think...

Ranking every team is an impossible task but nobody does it better than Steel and Connolly but their numbers won't be available until late this summer. Sure there are misses, some bad, but the point differentials between Steel's Plus/Minus rating when adjusted for home field have been uncannily accurate for summer projections of actual game point spreads in the fall.

That leaves us the "opinion driven" ranking at the moment. In SBNation's way too early Top 25 they compiled the consensus ranking of 13 other way too early rankings to arrive at a preseason ranking of #21 for the Cards. (I know Pike and many others will totally reject that assessment but it is what it is.) ESPN has since moved the Cards just outside their Top 25 (listen to Schlabach's reasoning HERE) but Athlon's previously uncounted release has the Cards at #22. So ESPN's removal of the Cards from the SBNation consensus list seems to be a wash. Of the now 14 sources, 3 project only a Top 5, Top 10 or odds to win the NC. Of the 11 sources that actually offered a preseason Top 25 list the Cards are ranked in 9 of them.

So, at this time, SBNation's consensus rankings seem to be a reasonable starting point for examining 2016 expectations. Only #2 AL (away) and #10 TN (away) are ranked above the Cards; #22 GA (home) and #23 FL (away) sit right behind the Cards.​

Discussion...

This topic is 100% speculation so I'm not going to try to get into game by game detailed match ups, likely improvements and what ifs so early in the year. I'm going to stick with these way too early rankings by presumably objective writers (but definitely not "analysts" of Steel and Connolly's caliber).

These rankings clearly suggest UofL would/should be favored in all 7 games against OOC and non top 25 SEC opponents. Three of the non top 25 SEC games (Vandy, SC and MSU) would be at home. Only rebuilding from scratch MO (new staff, new QB and only 12 returning starters) is on the road. Last season, of those 4 teams, only MSU won more SEC games than did UofL. And the Cards have a sizable advantage in returning players over those 4 teams.

That brings us to the 4 ranked SEC opponents.

Three of those games are on the road in places where the home team seldom loses. Nothing needs to be said about AL. TN has apparently finally recovered from a 10 year drought and expected to return to football relevance. FL is FL despite returning only 10 starters after moving their QB to WR this spring. Cards might have a puncher's chance against TN and FL if at home but wins at Rocky Top and in the Swamp are hard to come by.

That leaves GA. Same situation as FL or TN except the game is at home, GA will have a new staff and likely a new t-FR QB behind center. Furthermore, the Cards may have some revenge motivation from that beat down GA put on them in the 2014 Belk Bowl. A win at PJCS is not out of the question.

I'll go out on a limb here and say the Cards pull of an "upset" against one of these 4 teams.
So if everything breaks out "as expected" I can see UofL winning 7, maybe 8, against UK's schedule. Eight would would require beating a preseason Top 25 SEC team and not being "upset" by any other.

I reserve the right to revisit this opinion after Steel and Connolly release their numbers. [winking]

Peace


In the hypothetical world we are threading in...your prediction could very easily be true. The downside is UL could VERY possibly also win 5 or 6. 5 would not be very likely. It would also be interesting to see if there would be any more cumulative wear and tear in the SEC verses ACC..

Would be nice to live in bazaro world for a year and do the schedule switch. Would make for even interesting message board fodder...oh we can always dream..
 

Pike 96

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Did you include playing Kentucky, Wildcard? Beating everybody not ranked and one of four ranked would make Louisville 9-3 against Kentucky's schedule. That is probably the same as most unbiased analysts would expect against their own schedule.


Here is the bottom line to this fun March discussion about College football.... Our UL fans are going to have their red tinted lenses on and us loyal UK football followers our blue tinted spectacles.

But for UL to go 8-3 against UK's schedule....they would need to win 5 of 6 against UF(road), UGA(home), Mizzou(road), USCjr(home), MSU(home) and Vandy(home).

vs. their own schedule of NC St(home), Duke(home), Virginia(road), BC(road), WF(home), Syracuse(road).

I think its very safe to say, that NO "unbiased analyst" would look at those two schedules and not consider the SEC version to be markedly more difficult. The "wear down/attrition factor" is a major consideration that hasn't been considered. Just no comparison between playing those two schedules from a physical pounding standpoint. Year in and year out the guys on the lines of scrimmage for those two groups of teams are night and day different.
 

Michigan Fan

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The debate is fun and interesting...in Louisville case we will throw in @ Houston, @ Clemson and home against Florida State...3 likely Top 12 teams...gone are the days when you can say Louisville has a easy schedule
 

Grumpyolddawg

Heisman
Jun 11, 2001
28,381
37,123
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Well thanks for the thoughts from on high...but just because you say it, doesn't necessarily make it gospel to me and make it so. What you initially said was Clemson didn't have a "stud" running back(which is debatable given Gallmans ranking and stats) and still made it to the NC game as one of your supporting reasons why with UL's running QB, they could very likely beat Bama, just like Clemson, UT and OleMiss did or almost did. I reject that comparison, because those three teams clearly had/have better running backs (except OM) AND Olines than UL had and most likely has going forward. Clearly Bama's defensive scheme is vulnerable to a running QB, but you could have Michael Vick back there.. without a significant amount of talent around him to keep their D honest... you aint doing jack against Bama's D from the last couple years.

And here's some color to your rivalry weekend records...for that 1-7 record, FSU was 2-0 against UF, Clemson was 2-0 against USCjr, UL was 2-0 against UK (where we very easily should/could have won both games). Georgia Tech also beat UGA as I'm sure recall on some fluck play. So you had far and away the top 2 ACC schools playing(FSU and CU) and arguably the 3rd best ACC school (UL) beating UF,USC and UK as your clear cut reasoning why UL's ACC schedule would be just as tough as UK's SEC schedule...which was the entire topic of discussion in the FIRST place!
Take the two best teams off both UL's in conference schedule compared to UK's in conference schedule and you tell me which schedule you would rather have.
UL plays NC St, Duke, Syracuse, BC, Virginia, and Wake Forrest. UK plays UGA, UF, USCjr, MSU, Mizzou, and Vandy. Regardless of the SEC East being "down" is there honestly any question as to which schedule would be easier and correspondingly which conference is easier to succeed in?? If you choose to argue it's equal or UL's path is easier just keep it to yourself because you are clearly incapable of being wrong in your own mind and will come up with some additional crap.
As far as UK and Stoops having a window for success in down SEC they need to take advantage of...I agree with you. But your original contention that UK should win "at least" 7 games given the state of the other programs(and staff turnover doesn't have to be a negative- look at UF last year) and more importantly, the fact we had such an advantage at the QB position compared to the other schools in question is just plain wrong and inaccurate. I'll say it again..out returning QB has lots of potential, but he's STARTED 2 GAMES and had thus far thrown more INT's than he has TD's. AND he has less starts than EVERY other SEC team in the East. Those are facts. So despite the turmoil and instability across the SEC East at the QB position, UK surely isn't at a surefire and definitive advantage at the QB position. And there is no way we should be putting iron clad 7+ win expectations around out recently dumpster level program. And that is coming from someone(me) that knows our program, recruting, and roster as well as I assume you know Georgia's. It would clearly be great if we were in a position to take advantage of the state of unrest in our conference, but our QB is an unproven commodity and we are by all accounts a year away. If the window closes by that point...such is life. So thanks for the omnipotence about all things SEC football related, but you be the expert at setting wins for your program and we'll do ours...
All that said, I never denied this is a VERY important year for Stoops and the program. 6 wins or more should be very achievable. But more importantly, we want to see less mistakes than we saw from coaching decisions last year. We want to see an offense that looks well organized, creative, and disciplined. We want to see some physical results from the solid recruiting in how me match up with SEC foes. We want to see clearlt that our players are being developed. If that is there, the wins will come.
And when we have 20 starters returning in 2017 and hopefully a QB who has shown himself SEC quality with a year under his belt.....I'm all good with 7+ expectations..

Clemson would have been in the game with any decent P5 back, Watson was the cog that made that offense work. I don't understand your argument 1-7 is 1-7 no matter how you justify it as you say, those are facts, 3 of those teams are on UK's schedule, are on UK's schedule, I am not following your logic how the SEC teams are tougher, Vandy and Missouri aren't anything to brag about and who knows who wins if they play Wake and BC, Duke might have won the SEC east, probably would have in 14. Sometimes you have to give credit where credit is due. I don't think the East will be this down much longer, and why I think the window is open for UK to have a breakout season this year..

If UK doesn't get to 7 wins this season when things are as unstable as it has ever been in the entire division, then it may not happen. Muschamp hired an experienced staff full of good recruiters, Kirby did too, I don't know anything about Missouri's new coach. But this is year 4 of Stoops's guys, they are sr and redshirt jr with a good bit of experience, more than anyone in the division other than UT. UK's talent level is no worse than 4th in the division and could be higher. The thing about 17, is everyone else is going to be in year 2 of transition and don't be shocked if a couple of key guys leave early after their jr years, happens to every team.
 

jauk11

Heisman
Dec 6, 2006
60,631
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Did you include playing Kentucky, Wildcard? Beating everybody not ranked and one of four ranked would make Louisville 9-3 against Kentucky's schedule. That is probably the same as most unbiased analysts would expect against their own schedule.

He can't include playing Kentucky, this make believe schedule has Transfer U playing UK's schedule, so you would have to play yourself------and that would be a sure loss, almost every game recap I have ever read talks about teams beating themselves so if UL was playing themself they would undoubtedly beat themselves.
 

HedleyLamarr

Senior
Oct 23, 2007
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You are so absolutely right. I don't know what I was thinking. It is undeniably clear that taking Kentucky off the schedule makes it much, much tougher. Thanks for clearing that up...
 

Pike 96

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Clemson would have been in the game with any decent P5 back, Watson was the cog that made that offense work. I don't understand your argument 1-7 is 1-7 no matter how you justify it as you say, those are facts, 3 of those teams are on UK's schedule, are on UK's schedule, I am not following your logic how the SEC teams are tougher, Vandy and Missouri aren't anything to brag about and who knows who wins if they play Wake and BC, Duke might have won the SEC east, probably would have in 14. Sometimes you have to give credit where credit is due. I don't think the East will be this down much longer, and why I think the window is open for UK to have a breakout season this year..

If UK doesn't get to 7 wins this season when things are as unstable as it has ever been in the entire division, then it may not happen. Muschamp hired an experienced staff full of good recruiters, Kirby did too, I don't know anything about Missouri's new coach. But this is year 4 of Stoops's guys, they are sr and redshirt jr with a good bit of experience, more than anyone in the division other than UT. UK's talent level is no worse than 4th in the division and could be higher. The thing about 17, is everyone else is going to be in year 2 of transition and don't be shocked if a couple of key guys leave early after their jr years, happens to every team.


Like i said....you clearly have a hard time admitting you are wrong in any of your hypotheses even when you are talking about a team you clearly don't know all that much about...what a lovely trait.

Right...Clemson would have been fine with "any decent P5 back"......because All decent backs run for over 1500 yards...Jeez...
Sorry its so tough for you to understand my argument about 1-7...it clearly was that 6 of those loses came at the hands of the 3 best teams in the ACC to one decent and two bad SEC East teams. so to use that as major indicator of the ACC's strength without taking the other 4 teams in the divisions in question and 2 cross division games into consideration, is a hollow and inaccurate basis upon which to base ones conclusion. And as far as my statement below around the schedules I was comparing....

UL plays NC St, Duke, Syracuse, BC, Virginia, and Wake Forrest. UK plays UGA, UF, USCjr, MSU, Mizzou, and Vandy. Regardless of the SEC East being "down" is there honestly any question as to which schedule would be easier and correspondingly which conference is easier to succeed in??

....Clearly you think the UL schedule is just a strong as the UK schedule.....which tells me everything i need to know... No analyst in the country would agree with you...but hey, better that than even considering your are actually wrong. And MSU probably would have won the SEC East last year and almost definitely would have in 14... And i would have taken MSU over Duke in both of those years.

Year 4 of Stoops with seniors and RS juniors? Is that the core of our team??? Jeez....why do i bother... What part of 20 returning starters in 2017 speaks to many seniors on our team in 2016?? We have a MASSIVE total of 1 RS Sr, 1 Sr, and 3 RS Jr's starting in 2016...that is a grand total of 5!!! I could run through the experience of our starters to totally refute your ridiculous statement that we have more experience than anyone other than UT. We have 5 starters that are Seniors or RS juniors. If any other team in the East has a lower number than that I'll eat my hat.. I think we match up well talent level wise with USCjr, Mizzou, and Vandy, but we could have a higher talent level than 4th in the East?? Please tell me who out of UT, UF, and UGA we have more talent than?? Those three teams each have 3 times the 4 and 5 star recruits we do..

So please STOP telling me about my team, which you clearly know hardly anything about. I typically appreciate your feedback on this board, but you are completely off with regard to what our projected win total next year should be. And Boom is the only even likely junior to leave early after next year...and that's distinct possibility.... Later..
 

Grumpyolddawg

Heisman
Jun 11, 2001
28,381
37,123
113
Like i said....you clearly have a hard time admitting you are wrong in any of your hypotheses even when you are talking about a team you clearly don't know all that much about...what a lovely trait.

Right...Clemson would have been fine with "any decent P5 back"......because All decent backs run for over 1500 yards...Jeez...
Sorry its so tough for you to understand my argument about 1-7...it clearly was that 6 of those loses came at the hands of the 3 best teams in the ACC to one decent and two bad SEC East teams. so to use that as major indicator of the ACC's strength without taking the other 4 teams in the divisions in question and 2 cross division games into consideration, is a hollow and inaccurate basis upon which to base ones conclusion. And as far as my statement below around the schedules I was comparing....

UL plays NC St, Duke, Syracuse, BC, Virginia, and Wake Forrest. UK plays UGA, UF, USCjr, MSU, Mizzou, and Vandy. Regardless of the SEC East being "down" is there honestly any question as to which schedule would be easier and correspondingly which conference is easier to succeed in??

....Clearly you think the UL schedule is just a strong as the UK schedule.....which tells me everything i need to know... No analyst in the country would agree with you...but hey, better that than even considering your are actually wrong. And MSU probably would have won the SEC East last year and almost definitely would have in 14... And i would have taken MSU over Duke in both of those years.

Year 4 of Stoops with seniors and RS juniors? Is that the core of our team??? Jeez....why do i bother... What part of 20 returning starters in 2017 speaks to many seniors on our team in 2016?? We have a MASSIVE total of 1 RS Sr, 1 Sr, and 3 RS Jr's starting in 2016...that is a grand total of 5!!! I could run through the experience of our starters to totally refute your ridiculous statement that we have more experience than anyone other than UT. We have 5 starters that are Seniors or RS juniors. If any other team in the East has a lower number than that I'll eat my hat.. I think we match up well talent level wise with USCjr, Mizzou, and Vandy, but we could have a higher talent level than 4th in the East?? Please tell me who out of UT, UF, and UGA we have more talent than?? Those three teams each have 3 times the 4 and 5 star recruits we do..

So please STOP telling me about my team, which you clearly know hardly anything about. I typically appreciate your feedback on this board, but you are completely off with regard to what our projected win total next year should be. And Boom is the only even likely junior to leave early after next year...and that's distinct possibility.... Later..

Do you not understand it was Watson and those receivers who allowed him to rush for that amount of yardage? He wouldn't have gotten close to 1k without the threat Watson presented to a defense with his ability to run the ball and their WRs ability to get open and get deep. Watson had a shadow almost every snap, which meant the defense was playing with 10. 2 of those losses were by the best team in the East in 15, does that not count.

The only players still on UK's roster not Stoops guys should be redshirt Jrs. Just because a team is relatively young doesn't mean they are inexperienced. You have multiple starters, who could be soph, returning who are not inexperienced. Boom, if he is like most backs, will be checking his draft status after the 16 season and he is a key part of UK's offense. There are only 2 games UK has very little chance of winning this fall, Bama and UT. UF lost their starting qb to transfer, that and PED suspension, Harris has changed positions, maybe only temporary, it looks like Lambert will be our starter again, USC, Vandy and Missouri have no qb. SEC east had 4 terrible offenses in it last year and could be 5 this year, add that to a team who will battle A&M for 6th in the west.. I don't understand you lack of confidence in at least 7 wins. Who on your schedule do you think are clear losses with almost zero chance of a win? UK has more talent than it may have had at anytime in the last 30 years.
 

Pike 96

All-Conference
Jun 7, 2010
3,162
4,344
0
Do you not understand it was Watson and those receivers who allowed him to rush for that amount of yardage? He wouldn't have gotten close to 1k without the threat Watson presented to a defense with his ability to run the ball and their WRs ability to get open and get deep. Watson had a shadow almost every snap, which meant the defense was playing with 10. 2 of those losses were by the best team in the East in 15, does that not count.

The only players still on UK's roster not Stoops guys should be redshirt Jrs. Just because a team is relatively young doesn't mean they are inexperienced. You have multiple starters, who could be soph, returning who are not inexperienced. Boom, if he is like most backs, will be checking his draft status after the 16 season and he is a key part of UK's offense. There are only 2 games UK has very little chance of winning this fall, Bama and UT. UF lost their starting qb to transfer, that and PED suspension, Harris has changed positions, maybe only temporary, it looks like Lambert will be our starter again, USC, Vandy and Missouri have no qb. SEC east had 4 terrible offenses in it last year and could be 5 this year, add that to a team who will battle A&M for 6th in the west.. I don't understand you lack of confidence in at least 7 wins. Who on your schedule do you think are clear losses with almost zero chance of a win? UK has more talent than it may have had at anytime in the last 30 years.


If if's and but's were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry xmas..the passing game and running game almost always are symbiotic in good offenses. Gallman ran for over 1500 yards and is projected at #7 RB in a historically loaded RB year. He is better than a "Decent" P5 back.
Florida was NOT the best team in the East in 15 by the end of the year when they played FL ST without Grier. And they were so good in 14 that they got their coach fired(which u conveniently left out)

So now the argument isn't that we have a bunch of Stoops guys that are Seniors and RS Jr's, but that we still have a lot of experience returning that very well could be soph's? This is now the premise to back up the statement that we are the most experienced team in the East besides UT? Gotcha...well let me she'd some light.
Yes, our Offense has a good amount of "game" experience returning. With the extremely important exception of our QB and 2 starting Tackles(who have both not ever played in a D1 game). As I said, our QB has all of 2 previous starts and didn't perform better than average at best in those. However you slice it and regardless of how you spin it in your own mind, EVERY other SEC East team has QB's with more game experience then ours. That is fact. We've had enough talent and opponent circumstance to have won 6 games both of the last 2 years but we have had a subpar QB with lots of hype. I'll be dammed if I'm going to pencil in success from a QB this year until he actually shows game production.
Secondly, our defense is not even close to experienced in "game" action. EVERY other East defense will be more experienced than ours and just as talented. Out of the 11 projected starters, we have a whopping total of appx 50 starts IN THEIR CAREERS for the projected starters!!! So if you had all 11 starters with 2 years of starts, you'd have 264 starts across the Defense. We have around 50 starts from our starters and 24 of those come from 2 sophomores with 1 year experience. Bottom line is our defense is probably the worst in the SEC East. A good amount of young talent in the back 7, but minimal game experience.
That is why I am not ready to proclaim this team should win at least 7. Can we beat every team except the highly unlikely games on the road with Bama and UT? Absolutely. But given the inexperience as stated above, I'd be happy to win 6, go to our bowl, shoe off our nice shiny new 45 MM football complex, bring in another good recruiting class, and come back ready to rumble in 2017 with a game time experienced lineup and seasoned QB.
 

Grumpyolddawg

Heisman
Jun 11, 2001
28,381
37,123
113
If if's and but's were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry xmas..the passing game and running game almost always are symbiotic in good offenses. Gallman ran for over 1500 yards and is projected at #7 RB in a historically loaded RB year. He is better than a "Decent" P5 back.
Florida was NOT the best team in the East in 15 by the end of the year when they played FL ST without Grier. And they were so good in 14 that they got their coach fired(which u conveniently left out)

So now the argument isn't that we have a bunch of Stoops guys that are Seniors and RS Jr's, but that we still have a lot of experience returning that very well could be soph's? This is now the premise to back up the statement that we are the most experienced team in the East besides UT? Gotcha...well let me she'd some light.
Yes, our Offense has a good amount of "game" experience returning. With the extremely important exception of our QB and 2 starting Tackles(who have both not ever played in a D1 game). As I said, our QB has all of 2 previous starts and didn't perform better than average at best in those. However you slice it and regardless of how you spin it in your own mind, EVERY other SEC East team has QB's with more game experience then ours. That is fact. We've had enough talent and opponent circumstance to have won 6 games both of the last 2 years but we have had a subpar QB with lots of hype. I'll be dammed if I'm going to pencil in success from a QB this year until he actually shows game production.
Secondly, our defense is not even close to experienced in "game" action. EVERY other East defense will be more experienced than ours and just as talented. Out of the 11 projected starters, we have a whopping total of appx 50 starts IN THEIR CAREERS for the projected starters!!! So if you had all 11 starters with 2 years of starts, you'd have 264 starts across the Defense. We have around 50 starts from our starters and 24 of those come from 2 sophomores with 1 year experience. Bottom line is our defense is probably the worst in the SEC East. A good amount of young talent in the back 7, but minimal game experience.
That is why I am not ready to proclaim this team should win at least 7. Can we beat every team except the highly unlikely games on the road with Bama and UT? Absolutely. But given the inexperience as stated above, I'd be happy to win 6, go to our bowl, shoe off our nice shiny new 45 MM football complex, bring in another good recruiting class, and come back ready to rumble in 2017 with a game time experienced lineup and seasoned QB.


The thing about 17 is everyone else who has more talent than UK will also be bringing back a seasoned qb. But you are ignoring all the transititon and turmoil in the East, But you win, UK will be hard pressed to get to 5 wins this fall, better?
 

jauk11

Heisman
Dec 6, 2006
60,631
18,638
0
The thing about 17 is everyone else who has more talent than UK will also be bringing back a seasoned qb. But you are ignoring all the transititon and turmoil in the East, But you win, UK will be hard pressed to get to 5 wins this fall, better?

No, you both have pretty good arguments but I like your scenario a lot better.
 

Pike 96

All-Conference
Jun 7, 2010
3,162
4,344
0
The thing about 17 is everyone else who has more talent than UK will also be bringing back a seasoned qb. But you are ignoring all the transititon and turmoil in the East, But you win, UK will be hard pressed to get to 5 wins this fall, better?

Thank you...Victory!....hold on, wait a minute. Crap...
 

Pike 96

All-Conference
Jun 7, 2010
3,162
4,344
0
The thing about 17 is everyone else who has more talent than UK will also be bringing back a seasoned qb. But you are ignoring all the transititon and turmoil in the East, But you win, UK will be hard pressed to get to 5 wins this fall, better?

Listen, I apologize for being a jerk about it. You absolutely bring up valid points about the rest of the East being vulnerable. AND believe me, I hope we are in a position THIS year to rake advantage of it. IF things come togethee we could easily win 7+. But like mist
The thing about 17 is everyone else who has more talent than UK will also be bringing back a seasoned qb. But you are ignoring all the transititon and turmoil in the East, But you win, UK will be hard pressed to get to 5 wins this fall, better?

Listen, I apologize...don't mean to be a jerk about it. You bring up completely valid points around the current vulnerability of the East. And I completely hope we are ready to take advantage of it THIS year, because as you said, the window of opportunity may be brief. You are right in that it is very realistic to see this UK team win 7+ this year and I wouldn't be shocked at all. But it is also very possible we win 6. Or even 5 IF we still struggle at QB and Defense. Honestly I think we will ultimately be better at QB and take a step forward. You are correct in your assumption that Barker is very talented. It truly wouldn't surprise me if by year end, Barker wasn't roundly considered the second best QB in the East behind Dobbs. But living the PTSD life that is a UK football fans, I choose to take the wait and see approach at this point.
I argue vehemently with you because you are clearly a very knowledgeable SEC football person and we'll respected on our board. With that, I think it's important to totally understand the current state of the roster and not set overly sunny goals at this point with Stoops around win totals. There is a segment of our fan base that will see your projection of at least 7 as a serious litmus test by which to measure Stoops. And the last thing we need is to have the Fir Stoops crowd unrealistically fanning the flames if we only win 6 (or even 5).

He is definitely on the right path. I absolutely envision a time in the very near future where coming to Commonwealth and getting a win is considered a daunting task. Just not sure if 16 is quite the year yet. Good luck with yours this year...UGA is a class program
 

Grumpyolddawg

Heisman
Jun 11, 2001
28,381
37,123
113
Listen, I apologize for being a jerk about it. You absolutely bring up valid points about the rest of the East being vulnerable. AND believe me, I hope we are in a position THIS year to rake advantage of it. IF things come togethee we could easily win 7+. But like mist


Listen, I apologize...don't mean to be a jerk about it. You bring up completely valid points around the current vulnerability of the East. And I completely hope we are ready to take advantage of it THIS year, because as you said, the window of opportunity may be brief. You are right in that it is very realistic to see this UK team win 7+ this year and I wouldn't be shocked at all. But it is also very possible we win 6. Or even 5 IF we still struggle at QB and Defense. Honestly I think we will ultimately be better at QB and take a step forward. You are correct in your assumption that Barker is very talented. It truly wouldn't surprise me if by year end, Barker wasn't roundly considered the second best QB in the East behind Dobbs. But living the PTSD life that is a UK football fans, I choose to take the wait and see approach at this point.
I argue vehemently with you because you are clearly a very knowledgeable SEC football person and we'll respected on our board. With that, I think it's important to totally understand the current state of the roster and not set overly sunny goals at this point with Stoops around win totals. There is a segment of our fan base that will see your projection of at least 7 as a serious litmus test by which to measure Stoops. And the last thing we need is to have the Fir Stoops crowd unrealistically fanning the flames if we only win 6 (or even 5).

He is definitely on the right path. I absolutely envision a time in the very near future where coming to Commonwealth and getting a win is considered a daunting task. Just not sure if 16 is quite the year yet. Good luck with yours this year...UGA is a class program

I apologize as well, I don't know UK's roster as well as you, that odd shaped ball bounces strange sometimes and people burst on the seen every year that no one expects. Its your board and I thought I was being positive about the program, didn't mean to upset anyone, but its a gift I have.
 

ukalum1988

Heisman
Dec 21, 2014
12,122
31,318
113
I apologize as well, I don't know UK's roster as well as you, that odd shaped ball bounces strange sometimes and people burst on the seen every year that no one expects. Its your board and I thought I was being positive about the program, didn't mean to upset anyone, but its a gift I have.
Don't worry Grumpy, it's all good at least from where I sit. It's clear you've gotten to know the UK FB program better than just about any non-UK fan and frankly better than many self-identified UK fans. It looks like you and Pike had an honest disagreement but hopefully that's all been settled.
 
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