In the NIL era - should our expectations for MSU baseball change?

[dawgstudent]

Before NIL - we had 2 things in our favor - fans and the stadium. The one thing missing was a championship to get us over the top. We win it in 2021 but then NIL and $$$ starts to matter more.

With that being said - is the expectation of Omaha too much in college baseball's current environment?

 

[stateu1]

No. Seems like we could match others baseball NIL.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

There are still teams with worse resources than us making deep postseason runs in the NIL era. Maybe it’s harder for us to win another championship now but I think getting to the CWS is still a realistic goal most years.

 

[Maroon13]

NCAA tournament every year is the expectation. Host first round, 50% of the time.
host super about 25% of the time.
Omaha at least once a decade.

 

[onewoof]

Goal is to make the post season in football, basketball and baseball. Just make it.

We won't compete with UTenn anytime soon in baseball. Not while they are throwing out NIL cash like they are and have a maniacal head coach that is obsessed with getting up the big leagues as a coach in a year or two.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

No. NIL isn't an issue in baseball. If anything, it has helped us close the gap between us and the big schools that had extra scholarship money (Vanderbilt, Florida, LSU, even Georgia and Tennessee who used to not care, but always had the advantage).

The problem is, we still had issues competing at the upper echelon even before NIL. I think it's because there is so much adequate baseball talent, plus the randomness of the game in general. And....even with the stadium.....Starkville ain't for everybody. That's why California teams were so strong for so long even though they didn't really care....available geographic talent. The reason that has largely dried up is the eroding of the middle class there, thus less talent, plus the rising costs of those schools. That's another reason that LSU and Florida largely had talented squads, no matter the coach. I think it's also a big reason Arkansas, Tennessee and Georgia are coming on so big now.

So no....our issue is recruiting the RIGHT type players, and then supplementing with NIL.

 

[ETK99]

No, we need a new staff. We've got an exceptional baseball NIL, we just have the wrong people using it.

 

[GloryDawg]

Not really but we should be better than the Sun Belt. We are o-2 this season against it.

 

[Shmuley]

Lemonis is not the guy. And Selmon should not be allowed to participate in finding his replacement. Very bad spot.

 

[Yeti]

Dude nuked two homers yesterday I believe was a one time MSU dog. We didn’t figure out he could hit? That’s not NIL

 

[The Knights Who Say "Ni!"]

NIL is THE factor in ALL college sports. Tennessee baseball will continue to show the Mississippi schools how real it has become. Vols reportedly doubled the salary on 2 OM players from last year. Auburn and Alabama basketball suddenly powerhouses? Texas football? It‘s $$$$ and it’s legal.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

NIL is THE factor in ALL college sports. Tennessee baseball will continue to show the Mississippi schools how real it has become. Vols reportedly doubled the salary on 2 OM players from last year. Auburn and Alabama basketball suddenly powerhouses? Texas football? It‘s $$$$ and it’s legal.

Vitello, Pearl and Oats played a big part in those programs. Coaching and program support still matters.

Texas football has always had money. And as shown last year, they weren't all that great. Same ole Tejas. Played an easy schedule SEC-wise, Georgia whipped their asss once and then beat them again in a down effort, Skattebo should have beat them, and they weren't competitive with Ohio State (granted, like all other teams once it mattered).

But NIL definitely works for you when you've got all the other pieces in place.

 

[o_HuntDawg]

I'll say again.. our NIL in baseball is not what people think it is. We arent in the top 5 in the SEC from a NIL standpoint. And we are closer to the middle of the pack than to the top in terms of NIL

Others in the conference have deeper pockets to land the huge portal talent.... We've yet to land a impact no doubt portal piece, NIL is why.

and you need to have a few studs to compete at the highest levels.. we were forunate enough a few times to develop or have them stay long enough to be a stud... but more and more its going to be about getting that stud outta the portal.. and right now our pockets arent deep enough to get em.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I'll say again.. our NIL in baseball is not what people think it is. We arent in the top 5 in the SEC from a NIL standpoint. And we are closer to the middle of the pack than to the top in terms of NIL

Others in the conference have deeper pockets to land the huge portal talent.... We've yet to land a impact no doubt portal piece, NIL is why.

and you need to have a few studs to compete at the highest levels.. we were forunate enough a few times to develop or have them stay long enough to be a stud... but more and more its going to be about getting that stud outta the portal.. and right now our pockets arent deep enough to get em.

 

[8dog]

There’s only about 25 teams committed to baseball in a way comparable to us. Lets just get a real coach.

 

[o_HuntDawg]

There’s only about 25 teams committed to baseball in a way comparable to us. Lets just get a real coach.

thats fair... but if there are 8-10 of those that a notch or two above us... it really doesnt matter who the coach is on the big scale of things.

LSU is still going to land Tommy Tanks and Skenes.. Florida is still gonna pay Cags what it takes.. and we'll get outbid by Texas AM for whomever else they need.... and thats just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[8dog]

thats fair... but if there are 8-10 of those that a notch or two above us... it really doesnt matter who the coach is on the big scale of things.

LSU is still going to land Tommy Tanks and Skenes.. Florida is still gonna pay Cags what it takes.. and we'll get outbid by Texas AM for whomever else they need.... and thats just the tip of the iceberg.

Yeah but this isn’t football. You don’t have to have the absolute best talent. We can and should always have enough to compete to be a top 16 team. And once you host anything can happen.

 

[anon1768925248]

There are very very very few teams that put more money into baseball in the NCAA than Mississippi State.

 

[o_HuntDawg]

Yeah but this isn’t football. You don’t have to have the absolute best talent. We can and should always have enough to compete to be a top 16 team. And once you host anything can happen.

i agree with that. We should never not be in the hosting conversation. I mean the occasional down here due to injury or bad luck here or there.. ok... but in general i agree.

However the game has turned into a few dominate arms and a few big bats are what it takes to win. Those big arms and big bats cost money.. and we havent been able to land them... and that isnt a coaching issue.

 

[o_HuntDawg]

There are very very very few teams that put more money into baseball in the NCAA than Mississippi State.

into the program.. facilites... etc... true

NIL. We arent even top 5 in the SEC... and again we are closer to the middle/bottom of the NIL deal than the top in this league.

To say it more bluntly.. our NIL payroll for baseball is closer to that of a school/program like Auburn than it is to LSU/FLA/Tn/TxAM/Ark.... and the gap is sizable.

 

[8dog]

i agree with that. We should never not be in the hosting conversation. I mean the occasional down here due to injury or bad luck here or there.. ok... but in general i agree.

However the game has turned into a few dominate arms and a few big bats are what it takes to win. Those big arms and big bats cost money.. and we havent been able to land them... and that isnt a coaching issue.

Tennessee won last year with very little portal help while we had one of the best Friday night guys in the country from the portal.

Lem just ain’t it. He couldn’t even land Arquette despite having way more money than OSU

 

[o_HuntDawg]

Tennessee won last year with very little portal help while we had one of the best Friday night guys in the country from the portal.

Lem just ain’t it. He couldn’t even land Arquette despite having way more money than OSU

Tenn got one of the best players in the country out of the portal last season, unless a 2nd round pick that hit 23 homers isnt a big get. Also landed some other pieces the years before that hung around.

We managed to find a diamond in the rough. We need more of them... because we've swung and missed and continued to swing and miss on the big portal known commodities.

and again im not defending Lemonis. I think he's average.. slightly above average at best... but our NIL isnt big enough to get certain pieces we need to compete at the level this board thinks we should.

 

[8dog]

Tenn got one of the best players in the country out of the portal last season. Also landed some other pieces the years before that hung around. You're dead wrong about Tennessee.

We managed to find a diamond in the rough. We need more of them... because we've swung and missed and continued to swing and miss on the big portal known commodities.

and again im not defending Lemonis. I think he's average.. slightly above average at best... but our NIL isnt big enough to get certain pieces we need to compete at the level this board thinks we should.

Tennessees starting 9 last year usually had 8 non portals. they lost their best pitcher to the portal. They are just really really good at what they do. NIL is important but it’s not really our issue. And his NIL comments this offseason didn’t sit well at all with the powers that be.

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

Dude nuked two homers yesterday I believe was a one time MSU dog. We didn’t figure out he could hit? That’s not NIL

Dude had 27 home runs in 2023, a year AFTER he left State. The same coaches that evaluated him back then are still here, turning freshmen phenoms into junior and senior washouts!

 

[o_HuntDawg]

Tennessees starting 9 last year usually had 8 non portals. they lost their best pitcher to the portal. They are just really really good at what they do. NIL is important but it’s not really our issue. And his NIL comments this offseason didn’t sit well at all with the powers that be.

landing a 2nd round pick that hit 23 homers is pretty successful in the portal. They were also very aggressive in the portal this year to re-load They've used and do use to portal and use it well... and with that comes big $$$ to get what they need when they need it.

We can disagree about the NIL.. but i'll say this... its much easier to coach when you have skenes... and we were significantly out bid for him... and have been for the biggest talent on the market yearly. Hell we had to drum up money to keep Dakota. Our NIL is an issue if we are trying to compete at the top of the top.

Regional bids. Top 25's.. all that... sure our NIL is plenty good enough for that.

 

[8dog]

landing a 2nd round pick that hit 23 homers is pretty successful in the portal. They were also very aggressive in the portal this year to re-load They've used and do use to portal and use it well... and with that comes big $$$ to get what they need when they need it.

We can disagree about the NIL.. but i'll say this... its much easier to coach when you have skenes... and we were significantly out bid for him... and have been for the biggest talent on the market yearly. Hell we had to drum up money to keep Dakota. Our NIL is an issue if we are trying to compete at the top of the top.

Regional bids. Top 25's.. all that... sure our NIL is plenty good enough for that.

Dakota was insanely cheap. That really wasn’t an NIL deal.
Again when we are losing kids to teams we are outbidding (and we are) you gotta solve that.

 

[o_HuntDawg]

Dakota was insanely cheap. That really wasn’t an NIL deal.
Again when we are losing kids to teams we are outbidding (and we are) you gotta solve that.

Dakota was cheap for Dakota... but we were losing him because Georgia was willing to pay market value to him. When asked for a slight raise.. we had to scramble to accomplish it.

We've lost 1 kid to a school we outbid. And we didnt outbid by a significant margin.. and said kid had connections to the other program.. and i was actually told we didnt outbid, just matched.. but if you say outbid so be it. However... You cant really say thats been the case in any other stituation.. yet its brought up like it happens yearly.

Point is there are 5-6 schools in the country if they want a kid.. can offer the kid enough to where its going to be VERY difficult if not impossible to say no.. due to $$$$.... we arent one of those schools and are nowhere close to being one.

 

[8dog]

Dakota was cheap for Dakota... but we were losing him because Georgia was willing to pay market value to him. When asked for a slight raise.. we had to scramble to accomplish it.

We've lost 1 kid to a school we outbid. And we didnt outbid by a significant margin.. and said kid had connections to the other program.. and i was actually told we didnt outbid, just matched.. but if you say outbid so be it. However... You cant really say thats been the case in any other stituation.. yet its brought up like it happens yearly.

Yes we can disagree. But it’s not like this is some new era where we are at a disadvantage in getting talent. LSU, Vandy, Florida, Arkansas and others have always been taking in more than us. And Tennessee would be great regardless of NIL. That dude is incredible.

 

[o_HuntDawg]

Yes we can disagree. But it’s not like this is some new era where we are at a disadvantage in getting talent. LSU, Vandy, Florida, Arkansas and others have always been taking in more than us. And Tennessee would be great regardless of NIL. That dude is incredible.

Yes and no...

Its a little different when Arkansas could say here is a 75% scholarship opposing our 30% scholarship than it is.. us offering 250K and arkansas being able to offer 750K green money... that hits a little harder IMO... the scholarship situation, we may be able to sway a kid here or there.. the money situation.. no shot.

and totally agree on Vitello. Best in the game.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

Have you seen our stadium?

 

[patdog]

thats fair... but if there are 8-10 of those that a notch or two above us... it really doesnt matter who the coach is on the big scale of things.

LSU is still going to land Tommy Tanks and Skenes.. Florida is still gonna pay Cags what it takes.. and we'll get outbid by Texas AM for whomever else they need.... and thats just the tip of the iceberg.

We just lost to Southern Miss and Troy. I don't think NIL is the problem here.

 

[o_HuntDawg]

We just lost to Southern Miss and Troy. I don't think NIL is the problem here.

baseball my friend. No one is going undefeated. Mid week at that.. and early in the season. Look around college baseball, top notch programs losing games to almost unheard of programs so far early this season.

It happened pre NIL and will continue to after NIL. Its why the royals can beat the yankees.

I'm not saying our NIL isnt the only problem.. and im not defending lemonis.. but i am saying there is a large gap b/t our NIL and the teams at the top.. and that for sure its going to make things that people on this board to happen more difficult... and here's the thing unless something changes the gulf of us.. and the top.. will widen

 

[patdog]

baseball my friend. No one is going undefeated. Mid week at that.. and early in the season. Look around college baseball, top notch programs losing games to almost unheard of programs so far early this season.

It happened pre NIL and will continue to after NIL. Its why the royals can beat the yankees.

I'm not saying our NIL isnt the only problem.. and im not defending lemonis.. but i am saying there is a large gap b/t our NIL and the teams at the top.. and that for sure its going to make things that people on this board to happen more difficult... and here's the thing unless something changes the gulf of us.. and the top.. will widen

We're in year 4 of being mediocre to terrible. That's not just baseball. That's not good baseball. I understand we can't compete with a handful of programs that are committing a lot of money to baseball NIL. But you can count those programs on your fingers. And don't even necessarily need to use both hands.

 

[o_HuntDawg]

We're in year 4 of being mediocre to terrible. That's not just baseball. That's not good baseball. I understand we can't compete with a handful of programs that are committing a lot of money to baseball NIL. But you can count those programs on your fingers. And don't even necessarily need to use both hands.

agree totally. We should always be in the host conversation.. except for a really odd season with a lot of bad breaks.

However losing to USM and Troy isnt a rare occurance in this game. There will probably be another game or two dropped along the way we shouldnt neccessarliy lose.. and we'd likely do that regardless of who the coach is

 

[patdog]

agree totally. We should always be in the host conversation.. except for a really odd season with a lot of bad breaks.

However losing to USM and Troy isnt a rare occurance in this game. There will probably be another game or two dropped along the way we shouldnt neccessarliy lose.. and we'd likely do that regardless of who the coach is

Agree, those aren't bad losses. But when you've played 6 games vs Manhatten & a 2-5 Missouri State team and lost the only 2 games you've played vs teams with a pulse, it's not a great start to the season. Winning 3 of our next 4 would go a long way.

 

[Seinfeld]

A valid question, but the elephant in the room that must first be addressed is this one

How many years does a CWS title buy you at State?

 

[patdog]

A valid question, but the elephant in the room that must first be addressed is this one

How many years does a CWS title buy you at State?

The answer should be 2. But it's most likely going to turn into closer to 10.

 

[aTotal360]

EASILY top 25. When you consider resources spent, I'd say we should be top 15. If we had a hardcore recruiter coach, that could land some whales, I could see our cigar boys put us in the top 5 of resources spent. They are some good bulldawgs looking for a reason to spend on baseball.

 

[Podgy]

No. NIL isn't an issue in baseball. If anything, it has helped us close the gap between us and the big schools that had extra scholarship money (Vanderbilt, Florida, LSU, even Georgia and Tennessee who used to not care, but always had the advantage).

The problem is, we still had issues competing at the upper echelon even before NIL. I think it's because there is so much adequate baseball talent, plus the randomness of the game in general. And....even with the stadium.....Starkville ain't for everybody. That's why California teams were so strong for so long even though they didn't really care....available geographic talent. The reason that has largely dried up is the eroding of the middle class there, thus less talent, plus the rising costs of those schools. That's another reason that LSU and Florida largely had talented squads, no matter the coach. I think it's also a big reason Arkansas, Tennessee and Georgia are coming on so big now.

So no....our issue is recruiting the RIGHT type players, and then supplementing with NIL.

Demographic change in California. Not everyone likes and plays baseball

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I would think the NIL requires that you should. At one time, we would recruit baseball players and see most of them go to the draft; we would wait until after the draft to re-recruit baseball players for our team.

I saw one list of the top 50 players projected to go in the draft. We did not have a single player on that list. What does that tell you? To me, it tells me we are not getting anywhere near the quality of players we used to get, and they are holding up for the top dollar, whether it's from a Major League team or from another college.