closer at the next level but that he could pitch at the next level. Any comments on that? I think if he gets his velocity up a little bit and develops a third pitch, which he will need, he could be a closer.
Interesting coment by Marlon Anderson. Said he didn't know if Holder was a
- Thread starter haildearoldstate
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His stuff kinda reminds me of Rod Beck who used to close for the SF Giants
back in the early, mid 90's.
back in the early, mid 90's.
I listened to Jim on hailstate. His curve is almost Kerry wood level (pre injury), but his fastball will get hit. He's only soph though so he can maybe add velocity or another pitch perhaps a 2 seam fastball
Paps was the same way at State. He added about 3-4 mph in the minors. Big difference from 92 to 96.
He'll add a little more velocity. Some arms get stronger as their careers go on. He is still fairly young.
I understand where he is coming from, but.... C'mon. Holder is averaging more than 2 strikeouts per inning(!) in the highest level of baseball. I believe he has what it takes.
Last year he had 30 strikeouts in 28.1 innings pitched.
This year he has 64 strikeouts in 35.2 innings pitched, which corresponds to a 1.81 strikeouts per inning ratio. That's absolutely ridiculous and it's almost as high as Craig Kimbrel's strikeout per inning ratio of 1.88 last year, which was the highest in major league history.
There are a lot of guys that have two really good pitches that close games in the majors. Most of them are/were able to do it with a plus fastball in terms of speed, which Holder sort of has. 91-93 MPH is good, but most closers throwing only two pitches are throwing mid 90s fastball with a plus slider or splitter as their second pitch. Looks the same coming at you as a fastball does. Fastball/curveball is not the typical two pitches you see from a closer because they look pretty different coming at you and major league hitters can adjust if you don't have that overpowering mid 90s fastball to supplement. The amount of break on Holder's curveball is what helps him so much at this level because these guys don't see 92 MPH and a curve like his. At the major league level though, I think he would need to develop a slider or changeup to supplement those two pitches because those guys do see stuff like Holder has more often.
All of that being said, Holder has the mentality and I think has the potential to be a major league closer. I would like to see a couple more MPH on the fastball and a slider or changeup that looks the same as a fastball coming off his hand. I still think he has major league stuff right now and he still has another year before the draft. But if his improvement from last year to this year is any indication of his potential, he will be one of the most exciting pitchers in college baseball next year.
This year he has 64 strikeouts in 35.2 innings pitched, which corresponds to a 1.81 strikeouts per inning ratio. That's absolutely ridiculous and it's almost as high as Craig Kimbrel's strikeout per inning ratio of 1.88 last year, which was the highest in major league history.
There are a lot of guys that have two really good pitches that close games in the majors. Most of them are/were able to do it with a plus fastball in terms of speed, which Holder sort of has. 91-93 MPH is good, but most closers throwing only two pitches are throwing mid 90s fastball with a plus slider or splitter as their second pitch. Looks the same coming at you as a fastball does. Fastball/curveball is not the typical two pitches you see from a closer because they look pretty different coming at you and major league hitters can adjust if you don't have that overpowering mid 90s fastball to supplement. The amount of break on Holder's curveball is what helps him so much at this level because these guys don't see 92 MPH and a curve like his. At the major league level though, I think he would need to develop a slider or changeup to supplement those two pitches because those guys do see stuff like Holder has more often.
All of that being said, Holder has the mentality and I think has the potential to be a major league closer. I would like to see a couple more MPH on the fastball and a slider or changeup that looks the same as a fastball coming off his hand. I still think he has major league stuff right now and he still has another year before the draft. But if his improvement from last year to this year is any indication of his potential, he will be one of the most exciting pitchers in college baseball next year.
Possible that we start him next year? Losing two weekend starters and IF
Woodruff comes back that still leaves one slot open. I hope Bracewell comes back and we can make him into a starter.
Woodruff comes back that still leaves one slot open. I hope Bracewell comes back and we can make him into a starter.
Just don't think we can do that.
He's too effective to move from that role. I think we have to go forward with the plan that Lindgren, Woodruff, and Ross Mitchell will be our starters next year. We've still got Cox and Fitts as possibilities as well, but I just think we have to keep Holder as a closer. Now if he developed a third pitch as a mentioned, it would be more of a possibility, but I still think his stuff is too good to move from the closer role.
He's too effective to move from that role. I think we have to go forward with the plan that Lindgren, Woodruff, and Ross Mitchell will be our starters next year. We've still got Cox and Fitts as possibilities as well, but I just think we have to keep Holder as a closer. Now if he developed a third pitch as a mentioned, it would be more of a possibility, but I still think his stuff is too good to move from the closer role.
He doesn't need a third pitch to close at any level. Most MLB closers only have two pitches with one of them being devastating. He needs a little more pop on the fastball and that could still come, but I wouldn't expect him to ever get to 98+. But then again he really doesn't have to.
The level of play in SEC baseball is equivalent to that of short season rookie ball in professional baseball. Different world fellas
The break on the curve is similar. Didnt know there was that much difference in speed.
And obviously there's some exaggeration there. I was comparing holder to one of the most talented pitchers of my lifetime. Holders curve devastates college hitters like woods curve devastated pros. The break on holders curve is mlb level -- there that better?
I understand completely what you were trying to do. I just wanted to add some perspective. If I had to compare Holder's CB to any MLB player, it would be a right handed version of Barry Zito's. I slow, big breaking CB. Holder doesn't actually have great stuff, what he does have is great deception on his pitches. The hitters have a ton or trouble recognizing his pitches because he hides the ball so well.
Paplebon threw just as hard at state but I don't think he threw the four seam fastball or splitter back then. Just hard and straight, with an occasional slider.
If he's gonna do it, now is the time. Lot more likely to get caught in the pros
He also said that "view of campus" was a nice backdrop and he wasnt even looking at campus.
Absolutely not. Weekend starters next year are Woodruff, Lindgren and Cox. Fitts midweek. Real Deal, Bracewell and Gentry out of the pen. Holder and Shelly closing it out. Then you add the freshmen and we are sick. Book it.
That too. I was saying more along the lines of some arms develop later than others. But juice works as well.