Can’t call stalling on the guy creating all the action. Ferrari had the only 2 takedowns in the match, fired off the only 2 shots in OT. You can call his style boring but he was the aggressor the whole match.
Iowa
- Thread starter CowboyMedic
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I agree with the fact that Dustin has got to be more aggressive to force the stalling call. He didn’t seem to understand how to attack that tactic which to me is inexcusable. Everyone knew Angelo would be on his knees trying to make it a low scoring match, which would give him the best chance to win. He executed his game plan and Dustin didn’t.
Thanks for the post and kind words but unless I missed something no one is criticizing anyone (except maybe plott). Still very excited for the direction of the program and was a great dual that we caught the wrong side of barely.
I disagree. If you are wrestling from a knee to only prevent the other wrestler from shooting and the come off the knee 2–3 times in the match for your shots, then the knee is only a defensive position and you are stalling. From my recollection, Angelo only shot one time from his knee and it wasn’t close. If that was his only shot from knees it should have been enough to buy him some time on the stall call but not the whole match.
My comment was an observation and many more on this board know a ton more about our wrestling program.
Makes sense
An observation, Taylor by all appearances is good with his team and at some point we'll be back. It will be a fun ride, hopefully some upsets go our way in the upcoming tournaments.
That is the water mark being watched.
The fanbase wants to win Championships. The fanbase more keyed into the Program want to see a timing issue that has been obvious mitigated...peaking too early. It wasn't doing us any good to get to the Big Xii's with an undefeated dual record to squeak some of our guys into the NCAA's and then not Wrestling to seed there.
I know this is your response because he is your guy but you would be screaming if Carter Starocci did it on a regular basis. Going to a knee is a form of cheating imo and should be stalling IF it is done in space, which is exactly what Ferrari is doing. Look for this to become a growing issue as Ferrari's career advances. It may even come up in offseason rule changes.
Cael's teams were up and down the first few years too. Then Cael stopped the early season bigger tourneys, and late season difficult matches. The PSU season a light team and tourney schedule from 11/15 to 1/1, and then the B1Gs from 1/1 to 2/15, and then tourney prep for three weeks thereafter. I'm expecting schedule changes for you guys going forward. Iowa on 2/23 is too late and CKLV is too early. Too many peaks when there should be only one.
We watched AJF win a title doing it, Zahid and Michael McGee both knee dropped. Ayala knee drops, this isn’t a new style.
Does giving more examples of guys doing it change his point? If you’re spending a majority of your time defending then you should be hit for stalling at a higher clip. I HATED when AJ did it even if it got us a champion.
It actually went down exactly like most predicted. Plott was not going to beat Ferrari, he is way too limited. Plott was not robbed like some commented — neither guy was going to score from that position although Plott did have a better position. Ferrari wins 9 out of 10. I don’t see it as an upset.
Teemer was never in jeopardy of losing that match. Score was 10-6 but it really wasn’t close.
I was surprised with all the offense. I thought a lot of the marches would have been a lot closer with lower scoring.
With the same wrestles, Iowa wins every time. If Arnold wrestles, it gets interesting because bonus points decide the match. Advantage OSU.
He got a takedown from his knees. So you can't really say he's defending the whole time. I don't like it either but our guy(s) didn't have an answer, just waited for Ferrari to stand up and then tied up. Ferrari dictated the flow of the entire match by going to his knees and pausing the action. Better figure out how to take advantage of the position because we have 4 more years of Ferrari knees at 184/197.
Like RBY wrestling with one arm behind his back circling out and only engaging on his own counter shots? Never saw one stall call against him for it…
Agreed. Plott couldn't adapt. Took very few shots. Coaches didn't have an answer either. 9/10, dunno, but they won't be wrestling again so who knows.
I knew it'd be close, every match but one played out as expected. I expected Plott to get a takedown, but you have to take shots to get takedowns.
It’s not against the rules, it’s not stalling in the current rules. Angelo came off his knees to tie up with plott and that’s where a majority of his shots came from. Why wasn’t Plott taking the shots when Angelo tied up with him?
Knee drop and the 3 point stance in space are different things IMO. Didn't like it when AJ did it but this is just a Ferrari thing. Hopefully that's the only thing Angelo picked up from his older brother. I would imagine that style will get ruled changed out of existence.
I was there last night and it was pretty comical how predictable the stalling calls were either going to be called or simply not called. It's what you expect when you go there. Doubt a Brands hasn't laid on the mat that listless and uninterested since the night he was probably conceived. The dual went about how it was expected to go, Plott wins and we win he didn't and we lost. There's not some huge gap between the programs.
I will say I was kind of disappointed in the whole Carver Hawkeye experience. Thought the crowd was pretty much a non factor. Sat on their hands when their kids were unranked, went wild when they thought they would win a match. I wouldn't say it's a great place to watch wrestling, so far away from the action. Oh well the ice cream was good.
I was there last night and it was pretty comical how predictable the stalling calls were either going to be called or simply not called. It's what you expect when you go there. Doubt a Brands hasn't laid on the mat that listless and uninterested since the night he was probably conceived. The dual went about how it was expected to go, Plott wins and we win he didn't and we lost. There's not some huge gap between the programs.
I will say I was kind of disappointed in the whole Carver Hawkeye experience. Thought the crowd was pretty much a non factor. Sat on their hands when their kids were unranked, went wild when they thought they would win a match. I wouldn't say it's a great place to watch wrestling, so far away from the action. Oh well the ice cream was good.
My take on individual performances, the team performance and the refs.
125 - Total domination in all positions. If the singlets were reversed Spratley would have easily gotten the tech with his opponent being hit for stalling about three times. Also the last 30 seconds were called by the ref in a way to make it almost impossible for Spratley to get the tech.
133 - Rin is not large for this weight. He is also a newbie when it comes to Folkstyle. He is also a true freshman. He also wrestled the #2 wrestler in the country in Carver who made it a mission to get bonus points in this match. So... Rin did just fine. He has talent and he has room to grow into this weight class. If Rin is committed, Taylor will get him where he needs to be. Having said that, to put Rin in this type of environment for his debut with all those factors going against him makes me think there is an issue with bot Reece and Cael - like injury or weight cut issues OR Rin is consistently beating both in the room and Taylor is thinking about pulling his redshirt?
141 - Workman like match, wrestled within himself, did what he needed to do.
149 - Carter did what he is capable of doing against a top level guy - avoid bonus points.
157 - Teemer is much more athletic than Fish.
165 - Amine's knee was clearly hampering his mobility and strength, can't judge because of that.
174 - Brands was completely outclassed in this match, stalled the entire match and the Iowa refs allowed it. If the singlets were reversed OSU would have been hit with 3 stalling calls in this match.
184 - Ferrari is better on his feet both offensively and defensively - that was the difference.
197 - Other than giving up the tilt at the end, I thought Surber wrestled fine. Buchanan was definitely up for this match. Buchanan is very skilled on his feet. Buchanan looks very powerful and huge for this weight to me, I'll be interested to see how he looks after that 3rd weigh in at nationals. The 2nd stall call on Surber was a joke.
HWT - Total domination by Wyatt. Another match that if the singlets were reversed OSU would have been hit with multiple stalling calls, yet Iowa got none.
TEAM - The team came within 1 overtime loss of winning a dual against the #2 team in Carver with Iowa refs. Taylor had the team ready and if the team is healthy, I believe they will push for 2nd at Nationals. The coaching staff has done a fantastic job in my opinion. As Taylor increases the talent level on the team over the next few years, I believe OSU will become the clear #2 program over Iowa and will close the gap with Penn State.
REFS: I don't mind so much refs that aggressively call stalling if they are consistent. The Iowa refs are not consistent, calling stalling calls on opponents far more aggressively than on Iowa wrestlers. They also favor their wrestlers during key situations in a match with things like no calls, stalemates, potentially dangerous calls etc...
125 - Total domination in all positions. If the singlets were reversed Spratley would have easily gotten the tech with his opponent being hit for stalling about three times. Also the last 30 seconds were called by the ref in a way to make it almost impossible for Spratley to get the tech.
133 - Rin is not large for this weight. He is also a newbie when it comes to Folkstyle. He is also a true freshman. He also wrestled the #2 wrestler in the country in Carver who made it a mission to get bonus points in this match. So... Rin did just fine. He has talent and he has room to grow into this weight class. If Rin is committed, Taylor will get him where he needs to be. Having said that, to put Rin in this type of environment for his debut with all those factors going against him makes me think there is an issue with bot Reece and Cael - like injury or weight cut issues OR Rin is consistently beating both in the room and Taylor is thinking about pulling his redshirt?
141 - Workman like match, wrestled within himself, did what he needed to do.
149 - Carter did what he is capable of doing against a top level guy - avoid bonus points.
157 - Teemer is much more athletic than Fish.
165 - Amine's knee was clearly hampering his mobility and strength, can't judge because of that.
174 - Brands was completely outclassed in this match, stalled the entire match and the Iowa refs allowed it. If the singlets were reversed OSU would have been hit with 3 stalling calls in this match.
184 - Ferrari is better on his feet both offensively and defensively - that was the difference.
197 - Other than giving up the tilt at the end, I thought Surber wrestled fine. Buchanan was definitely up for this match. Buchanan is very skilled on his feet. Buchanan looks very powerful and huge for this weight to me, I'll be interested to see how he looks after that 3rd weigh in at nationals. The 2nd stall call on Surber was a joke.
HWT - Total domination by Wyatt. Another match that if the singlets were reversed OSU would have been hit with multiple stalling calls, yet Iowa got none.
TEAM - The team came within 1 overtime loss of winning a dual against the #2 team in Carver with Iowa refs. Taylor had the team ready and if the team is healthy, I believe they will push for 2nd at Nationals. The coaching staff has done a fantastic job in my opinion. As Taylor increases the talent level on the team over the next few years, I believe OSU will become the clear #2 program over Iowa and will close the gap with Penn State.
REFS: I don't mind so much refs that aggressively call stalling if they are consistent. The Iowa refs are not consistent, calling stalling calls on opponents far more aggressively than on Iowa wrestlers. They also favor their wrestlers during key situations in a match with things like no calls, stalemates, potentially dangerous calls etc...
What are you talking about? The potentially dangerous was called when Ferrari was in neutral danger. It’s not a guarantee Plott would have scored if they let it go, but he definitely was in a good position to do so.
Does it really need to be pointed out to you that an overtime match that included a 50/50 scramble is not indicative of Ferrari winning the matchup 9/10?
Agreed. There needs to be a rule change about wrestling from a knee. I have always hated watching wrestlers who do this - Ferrari's not the only one but he sure gets away with it for extensive periods of the match. He comes up into a normal stance before shooting because he can't shoot from a knee - I haven't seen anyone that can. If you can't shoot from a stance, you shouldn't be allowed to have that stance.
Everytime? Based on that match?
Ferrari had 5-6 nice shots and 2 of them landed.
Agreed
9/10, gtfoh. The guy who couldn’t get off bottom isn’t winning 9 out of 10 times.
Maybe. Maybe plott learns enough in the one match to attack the wrestling from the knees more effectively and he wins 8/10. We won’t know though because Angelo is done for the year more than likely and Plott is going to be out of eligibility.
Yeah, I am stubborn!
I don't think Plott was well prepared for what was about to happen, and I would bet he would be more prepared in the future.
Based on that match, that match alone, I saw a guy that gave no opening to the opponent (stalling or not, which I don't claim that or think that) and Plott wasn't ready for that. Then I saw a guy get ridden for an entire period and that seldom means a win. Then, in OT, I do think the ref PD'd that position incorrectly, and it was a super advantage to Iowa.
Then I saw a misstep by Plott and a great reaction by Ferrari. I don't think that happens again and they go to rideouts 90% of the time.
I'm not a fan of it because it's cheating and stalling.
Ferrari was super aggressive in OT, he knew it wasn’t going to be favorable if it went into rideouts.
Plott is obviously the better mat wrestler, but unfortunately, Ferrari did finish 2 shots to 0. He has an elite swing single and also as long as the refs allow him to do it, his stance allows him to have an elite level defense. If he were forced to wrestle on his feet, who knows what would happen - my guess would be he'd get taken down once in awhile.
He doesn’t need to when he can take him down at will. He shot 5 times and scored on two of them. Plott was never close to taking him down. 2 clean takedowns to none. Advantage Ferrari every time. He riding him out every match is what won’t happen 9 out of 10 times.
And scored very easily. If there is a next time he will widen the gap.
Not even a good troll. Good lord that was an awful attempt.
1 takedown in the first 7 minutes isn't quite taking him down at will...
Anyone claiming this match wasn't close isn't being realistic. Ferrari and Starocci went to OT too which means the match was close but I don't think anyone would claim Ferrari is at his level yet. As long as refs let Ferrari spend 90% of the match on one knee nobody is going to take him down - pretty simple. If he can get away with it - he'll continue to do it - why wouldn't he?
And 2 takedowns in 7 minutes in 20 seconds is. He scored both very easily.
Ferrari is to Starocci what Plott is to Ferrari. You proved my point. Score was closer than the match and Plott isn’t beating Ferrari just like Ferrari isn’t beating Starocci. Also, I think I’m being very realistic because I called this outcome months ago on this forum and it happened in reality.
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I also favored Ferrari in the match, that has nothing to do with my points.
No I didn't make your point for you.
Ferrari did not take Plott down at will as I stated.
Anthony Robles wrestled on one knee? Was he cheating. It is style and good wrestlers adjust for it.
I stand by what I said and if they wrestle again, Ferrari widens the gap even more after he felt Plott and how cleanly he finished his shots. Plott didn’t even touch Ferrari’s leg and the potentially dangerous call was off Ferrari’s own shot. Neither wrestler was ever going to score there.
Listen, I think Okie State looked great. Next to Iowa, I’m a fan. They needed a coaching change and they got the best package on the market. But, Okie State is ended the season 14-1 last year. This year’s team ended at 13-1. The only big difference from last year’s team and this year’s team are the portal guys.
8/10 wins last night were portal guys. Ferrari and Ayala were the only ones that were not.
I think the NCAA needs to find a way to curb this and get some control on it. Maybe there needs to be a non-compete clause in signings that prohibit you from going to named schools? I don’t know the answer but just spit balling.
Starocci won 3-1 in regulation, and I would predict the next time wouldn't be as close. Someone on our board said that the solution is to bull rush Ferrari's upper body when he is on his knees. I tend to agree. Physics support the aggressor in that case. The aggressor will usually end up on top.
It's always cute when Iowa fans literally called a one-legged guy a cheater but use that same one-legged guy as support for why Ferrari should cheat. It's hilarious.
The point was he did NOT cheat and only OSU fans are saying wrestling one a knee is cheating. Try to catch up, buddy.