Is health care a right?
- Thread starter atlkvb
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There are catastrophic Insurance policies available for those types of scenarios you mentioned. I favor health savings accounts and community based outpatient clinics for most routine care folks need. The ACA, and it's one size fits all mandates is not only unworkable, it's unaffordable.
Just out of curiosity, why do you not choose to have an income of $100 billion per year?
Some think they should do certain things with their lives; buy a house, good job, 2.5 kids, cars, boats, dog, etc. Some think they should do these things and don't have any plan on how they will accomplish them or worse yet don't have any way to accomplish them but do it anyway. If something befalls them along this path is it my problem they didn't properly prepare?
Seems to work in Canada reasonably well and in parts of Europe. One reason that it is unaffordable is because lobbyists from the medical related industries have Congress in their pockets
1/2 the American population has an IQ score below 100. It is difficult to earn, but not impossible, much more than the average income. Sure you and I can move, improve, advance but lots can't above a certain point.
Know what OM....they're not my problem. I can't fix stupid. Look at some of the posters on this board!
If his income is $100 billion per year and he can make whatever income he wants then why doesn't he make $200 billion per year?
I think the main reason it's unaffordable is the costs have no relation to patients/consumer's ability to pay. We do need to take car of our medically indigent...I have no problem with that.
I just think there are better ways than big Government to do that. the lobbyists you mentioned, especially Pharmaceuticals, Insurance, and Government unions all add $$$$$$$ to the mix...gotta go with you on that.
But we can fix this with a few common sense reforms, trusting patients and care givers to make the best decisions for themselves, opening up the innovation of the healthcare marketplace to competition & choice, and getting rid of 3rd party payers and cost shifters like Medicare, Medicaid, mandates, community rating, and a host of other Government interference into the private health care decisions and choices of free people.
Pretty draconian if you are saying poor people shouldn't have kids. Sounds like the Republican platform we all have come to know.
I met a few people from WV recently who moved south in 86 when the husband lost his factory job. They now live in Raleigh. The wife's job doesn't offer medical coverage. The husband's job provided health care but dropped it as a result of ACA. They have no kids. Their monthly health premium is 1900. together they make 6700/month before taxes. That is pricey.
I do understand that , but having kids is a choice, jobs & income can change with an election. Now back to want vrs. Needs I know people who will go on two very nice vacations a year , get pay per view for every big fight have very nice / loaded vehicles that they can't afford ( gas guzzlers) 100$ jeans for all 3 kids the best video games & bass boats crying the government needs to pay for health care . In my opinion people should live with in there means & health care should be at the top of the chart ..not cable TV & air Jordan's & the latest iPhone
Call it whatever you want, doesn't matter. We have to find a way to provide it to all Americans.
I'm saying that people should live within their means. Nothing is stopping anyone from maximizing their earning potential. Being "underemployed" is sometimes as bad as being unemployed, in fact perhaps more stifling.
Choice does that. If by "available" you mean paid for, then no that will not work. We're trying to do that now and clearly it doesn't work.
Free market choice....freedom to pick and chose and shop for the type of care you need offered without any mandates or cost controls?
That works.
I agree competition is good in general but I think there are times when for whatever reason it doesn't work. I don't know if health care is one of those or not but if you go to the doctor and they tell you something what can you do other than take their word? Or get a second opinion, which costs more money.
And then if you need Procedure X and you go to the cheaper provider of it how do you know if the lower cost is because they're more efficient or instead because they're just not as good and you have a better chance of dying in the OR?
Why does it work in home buying? Not all home prices are the same. Folks chose what they can afford and the market offers those choices.
I don't see why the same model can't be run in health care. Even the cheapest homes keep folks warm and dry as long as they meet minimum construction and safety standards from designers and builders. The cheapest health care should at least offer basic treatment the same way.
Will some get better care than others? Yes. Some folks live in two million dollar homes and others live in 35,000 bungalows too. The point is, through choice and the market, consumers find their financial comfort levels.
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I think it's easier to judge whether the home suits you and whether it's in good shape (with the help of a home inspector) than to tell whether you need a medical procedure. What if two doctors give different opinions? And where is the line between "you paid less and thus you got crappier health care" and outright medical malpractice? If you can effectively introduce competition into medicine I'm all for it but I'm just not sure how well it can be done.
I admit it's a crap shoot. It's amazing to me how two Professionally trained medical Physicians can look at the same patient and have two different opinions on treatment and sometimes ailments!
It's part of human imprecision I suppose. Primarily though, as a means to address costs, I favor aggressive competition among health care providers, caregivers, insurers, and everyone else involved in health care delivery services. Competition for consumer dollars either paid by insurance companies, or directly by individuals will drive down costs, improve access, increase quality of care and provide adequate levels of treatment to all who can afford to pay for what they need.
Not gonna lie , I don't have a clue how to fix this HUUUUUGE problem, we need to take care of people who CAN'T take care of themselves having said that , how do we get people to pay for medical insurance that everyone should have ,instead of buying a f250 xlt when a Ford focus fits the pay grade & the needs . Seems keeping up with the Jones is more important than paying Dr Brown.
Maybe put a cap on profits sorta like public utility.....?
Maybe put a cap on profits sorta like public utility.....?
In my opinion you have to incentivize them, just as we dis incentivized them to purchase it through the individual mandate.
So offer them tax credits as a percentage of whatever they pay out of pocket for their own health care. We used to be able to deduct medical expenses off our taxes. Bring that back. Open up interstate competition among Insurance companies. Encourage Family practices, community clinics, mobile health clinics and take basic care services to the patients. Offer low cost high deductible catastrophic insurance policies for major operations or illness, and Medical savings accounts that grow tax free which consumers can use to purchase short term care, and pay high deductibles if needed.
Competition, consolidation, consumer choice to bring down prices, improve access to care, lower costs, and improve delivery services among health care providers competing for consumer dollars free from Government mandates and controls. My whole argument is just get government out of health care delivery, much better off for everyone.
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I'll bite; it is a right and probably a need for most persons but, you do have a choice to take it or not take it.
I love this argument. We have people on here who say "Americans want things handed to them".....and these are the same posters who want their businesses taxes to be reduced........but screw a person's health because of their "choice" to have a kid......or I guess their "choice" to have an incurable disease like Diabetes.......what a bunch bull****......
Do you feel the same way about food?
Clothing?
Shelter?
Why Health care, and not those? As "rights"?
Taxes are money taken from those who earn it my friend. It belongs to them. No one "takes away" anyone's health. You have a right to be healthy (happy) but you can't force someone else to pay for that or assure it. No one "chooses" to get sick, no more than than they choose to have accidents.
But that's why we purchase insurance to help us avoid those types of unknown or unforeseen incidents. We have homeowner's insurance, auto insurance, Life Insurance, and retirement Insurance to protect us for those specific sudden financial situations but none of those are "rights".
So why is health care? (in your opinion)
YOU asked if it was a right - - I replied that anyone has a right to have it but they had a choice of whether they have it or don't have it.
People need health care, that is law but they can pay a fine and choose not to participate.
OK, you've explained your answer, but not my question.
I asked if it was a "right" in the same vein as something an individual is entitled to and therefore deserves or expects the Government to provide? Like other "entitlements" which are described as rights.
I agree with you, the right to be healthy is certainly something all desire and should expect. However to me that does not translate into Government mandates against those who choose not to participate, or even forced participation among those who desire to make their own choices in how to keep themselves healthy.
To me that is the crux of the debate over the ACA. Does the Government have the authority to force you to purchase health Insurance in order to force others into the system which they use forced taxpayer funding to operate?
I say "no" they do not.
I'm not talented enough to generate that sort of income for myself, or I haven't figured out a way to compel someone to compensate me for my talent or ability to deliver services to someone at that level of remuneration.
It's not so much my 'choice' not to have that income (it's certainly my preference) but it's more my lack of ability or desire, or skill to accomplish that. Not selling myself short, but "expecting" to be paid that much has to be tempered with a dose of realism.
No one's forcing me or keeping me away from it though if that's what you mean?
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You asked in very plain English - - " Is Healthcare a right or a Choice? MY reply was"it is both a right and a choice" You have the right to health care. It is there if you choose to take it. If you choose not to take it, you are penalized for not taking it. However you are penalized by a government imposed tariff
OK, makes sense. I'm arguing it's a choice, which you have a right to make. However you are not entitled to health care, paid for by the Government or mandated by it in my opinion.
I think we're saying the same thing in a different way minus the mandates.