Is it a bad thing that a country should depend on itself?

Airport

All-Conference
Dec 12, 2001
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I thought self determination and being self reliant was a good trait. Somebody needs to call Merkel on that!
 

WVPATX

Freshman
Jan 27, 2005
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I thought self determination and being self reliant was a good trait. Somebody needs to call Merkel on that!

Merkel is ticked that the UK left the EU (where she was functionally in charge) and that the U.S. is forcing Germany to pay up and live up to their financial commitments. She wants a free ride. She is also worried that the migrant crisis will expand out of control and she will be blamed.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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I thought self determination and being self reliant was a good trait. Somebody needs to call Merkel on that!
It's unbelievable how quickly Trumplethinskin was able to fracture an alliance which has been beneficial to the national security of the US and our allies. 4 months and he has our NATO allies mad at us. But the Russians love us now, apparently despite having 6000 nukes pointed at us.. So there's that.
 

WVPATX

Freshman
Jan 27, 2005
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It's unbelievable how quickly Trumplethinskin was able to fracture an alliance which has been beneficial to the national security of the US and our allies. 4 months and he has our NATO allies mad at us. But the Russians love us now, apparently despite having 6000 nukes pointed at us.. So there's that.

The only hatred I see is Germany. They don't pay their bills. They hate the UK and the US. Merkel migrant policy is killing Germans and Europeans. Merkel is now going to have to double her defense budget to meet her NATO requirements. No wonder she's mad.
 

moe

Sophomore
May 29, 2001
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Merkel is ticked that the UK left the EU (where she was functionally in charge) and that the U.S. is forcing Germany to pay up and live up to their financial commitments. She wants a free ride. She is also worried that the migrant crisis will expand out of control and she will be blamed.
Or she may also be concerned that she can't depend on the biggest member of NATO which is what she said.
 

WVPATX

Freshman
Jan 27, 2005
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Or she may also be concerned that she can't depend on the biggest member of NATO which is what she said.

If she starts paying her NATO bills, maybe she will get more comfort. But she made her comments about the UK in addition to the U.S. Me thinks she is throwing a temper tantrum because she is not getting her way. Doubling her defense budget is huge and takes money away from her other spending priorities.
 

moe

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May 29, 2001
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If she starts paying her NATO bills, maybe she will get more comfort. But she made her comments about the UK in addition to the U.S. Me thinks she is throwing a temper tantrum because she is not getting her way. Doubling her defense budget is huge and takes money away from her other spending priorities.
You can guess all you want but what she says about the U.S. is true and a comfort to Russia. Russia loves the idea of a weakened NATO and our lack of unwavering support for it. Will we have any allies left by the time Trump is done?
 

WVPATX

Freshman
Jan 27, 2005
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You can guess all you want but what she says about the U.S. is true and a comfort to Russia. Russia loves the idea of a weakened NATO and our lack of unwavering support for it. Will we have any allies left by the time Trump is done?

She is the one making these remarks weakening NATO, not trump. Putin is laughing in delight. To blast the British and the US like that was incredibly stupid on her part. Trump is right to call out Germany for its freeloading with NATO. Even the British press, who hate trump, are blasting her remarks.
 
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DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
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You can guess all you want but what she says about the U.S. is true and a comfort to Russia. Russia loves the idea of a weakened NATO and our lack of unwavering support for it. Will we have any allies left by the time Trump is done?
Do you honestly believe if a NATO member was in trouble we wouldn't assist? Honestly? I had my doubts the last 8 years but I have zero right now. Weren't you one of the individuals claiming Trump would have us into a war with someone new within his first term? If so, that line of thinking seems counter to our support of NATO.

Realistically, this is her no liking that she has to alter allocation of funding from the specialist agenda and put them towards defense. I get it, if the most powerful nation in the world called me out as not fulfilling my contractual obligations, I might be inclined to respond in a similar fashion as she.
 

moe

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May 29, 2001
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She is the one making these remarks weakening NATO, not trump. Putin is laughing in delight. To blast the British and the US like that was incredibly stupid on her part. Trump is right to call out Germany for its freeloading with NATO. Even the British press, who hate trump, are blasting her remarks.
Ever heard of "NATO is obsolete" (Donald Trump)? He's made other comments since he took office that don't inspire NATO's confidence in us. I don't blame her for challenging the U.S. In response to her comments, Trump could have stepped up and confirmed that we're unequivocally behind NATO and diminish our differences but not, he just complains about German car sales and our trade deficit with them. smh Hopefully we can restore out relationships with traditional allies after Trump is gone.
 

WVPATX

Freshman
Jan 27, 2005
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Ever heard of "NATO is obsolete" (Donald Trump)? He's made other comments since he took office that don't inspire NATO's confidence in us. I don't blame her for challenging the U.S. In response to her comments, Trump could have stepped up and confirmed that we're unequivocally behind NATO and diminish our differences but not, he just complains about German car sales and our trade deficit with them. smh Hopefully we can restore out relationships with traditional allies after Trump is gone.

You do not read very much. Trump reaffirmed his support for NATO several times. Germany needs to pay up.

http://usaradio.com/2017/04/13/trump-reaffirms-support-for-nato-russian-relations-at-all-time-low/

http://www.defenddemocracy.press/trump-reaffirms-support-for-nato/
 

moe

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May 29, 2001
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Obviously Merkel doesn't believe him and I don't blame her.
Trump gave a speech to NATO leaders, but it's what he left out that got their attention
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/25/trump-does-not-mention-support-for-article-5-in-nato-speech.html
 

TarHeelEer

Redshirt
Dec 15, 2002
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Obviously Merkel doesn't believe him and I don't blame her.
Trump gave a speech to NATO leaders, but it's what he left out that got their attention
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/25/trump-does-not-mention-support-for-article-5-in-nato-speech.html

But he didn't say the words!

 

WVPATX

Freshman
Jan 27, 2005
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Obviously Merkel doesn't believe him and I don't blame her.
Trump gave a speech to NATO leaders, but it's what he left out that got their attention
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/25/trump-does-not-mention-support-for-article-5-in-nato-speech.html

Trump is insisting they pay their fair share, what they agreed to. This is not complicated but it does not surprise me that you are having a very difficult time grasping this concept. NATO agreement is very specific in terms of obligations.
 

moe

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May 29, 2001
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Trump is insisting they pay their fair share, what they agreed to. This is not complicated but it does not surprise me that you are having a very difficult time grasping this concept. NATO agreement is very specific in terms of obligations.
Read much? scroll up. As usual you attempt to change the subject to payment issues because you can't defend his mealy mouth "support" of NATO.
 

WVPATX

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Jan 27, 2005
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Read much? scroll up. As usual you attempt to change the subject to payment issues because you can't defend his mealy mouth "support" of NATO.

Trump has stated he supports NATO. The head of NATO has stated that Germany is not living up to their financial obligations. What part of this do you not understand?

We currently fund 76% of NATO operations. Trump is going to change that and Merkel will have little to nothing to say about it.
 

Airport

All-Conference
Dec 12, 2001
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Words have meaning (for most people). Trump defenders defend Trump, that's what they do.

calling out all those cheap skate, socialist countries that can't pay their bills is wrong? The Europeans have benefited from the collected generosity of the US people. A lot of PResidents have asked them to pay up, Trump may follow in the foot steps of those other weak kneed Presidents, but right now, the Europeans aren't sure.
 

Airport

All-Conference
Dec 12, 2001
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Read much? scroll up. As usual you attempt to change the subject to payment issues because you can't defend his mealy mouth "support" of NATO.
The NATO contract stipulates that those Euopean countries pay 2% of their GDP, theyh are in violation and have been for decades. It's time for them to grow up and take care of themselves.
 

moe

Sophomore
May 29, 2001
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Trump has stated he supports NATO. The head of NATO has stated that Germany is not living up to their financial obligations. What part of this do you not understand?

We currently fund 76% of NATO operations. Trump is going to change that and Merkel will have little to nothing to say about it.
Apparently you can't read, good luck on learning how. If NATO members don't believe what Trump says regarding support then I don't blame them for making other plans regarding the future security of their countries.
 

old buzzard

Senior
Dec 30, 2005
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Russia loves the idea of a weakened NATO and our lack of unwavering support for it. Will we have any allies left by the time Trump is done?

Trump is not weakening NATO by telling it's members to pay their fair share of the expenses. If they did live up to their financial obligations NATO would be much stronger, not weaker
 

moe

Sophomore
May 29, 2001
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Trump is not weakening NATO by telling it's members to pay their fair share of the expenses. If they did live up to their financial obligations NATO would be much stronger, not weaker
As I stated, I feel that Trump weakens NATO when he doesn't give unwavering support (with his words) to them. Once you call them obsolete, if you want to convince people that you've done a 180 on those remarks, you pretty much need to confirm your support in all ways possible to them every chance you get. I (and some NATO allies) don't believe that he's done that. Fortunately others in the Trump admin have tried to reaffirm U.S. support.
 

moe

Sophomore
May 29, 2001
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That's the premise of your "Trump" isn't dependable. The fact is, Socialists aren't dependable, themselves.
You're as bad as patx, a blatant liar that makes up ****. Scroll up to my response to bornaneer. Try not to be an idiot and a liar, K?
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
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You can guess all you want but what she says about the U.S. is true and a comfort to Russia. Russia loves the idea of a weakened NATO and our lack of unwavering support for it. Will we have any allies left by the time Trump is done?
Who has weakened NATO? Germany needs to pay their bills just line they agreed to pay. Germany is the one not keeping the agreement. All trump did was point out they are deadbeats.
 

moe

Sophomore
May 29, 2001
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So you agree with Trump that Germany should pony up? I personally think we have done enough for Germany over the years.
If they or any other country is not meeting their legal obligations to be in NATO, then they should. Even though I've already told you yes ("sure") once above, will the preceding statement suffice? I'm not a lawyer but I've seen some say that no NATO country owes any more than they're paying now nor owes us anything in back payment but for the sake of this thread I'll assume that any country not meeting their financial "target", needs to pay more. Trump wants money and Europe wants unequivocal U.S. support, the two sides need to get together.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
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If they or any other country is not meeting their legal obligations to be in NATO, then they should. Even though I've already told you yes ("sure") once above, will the preceding statement suffice? I'm not a lawyer but I've seen some say that no NATO country owes any more than they're paying now nor owes us anything in back payment but for the sake of this thread I'll assume that any country not meeting their financial "target", needs to pay more. Trump wants money and Europe wants unequivocal U.S. support, the two sides need to get together.
They did get together last week and your president told them to pay their bills.
 

bornaneer

Senior
Jan 23, 2014
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If they or any other country is not meeting their legal obligations to be in NATO, then they should. Even though I've already told you yes ("sure") once above, will the preceding statement suffice?
Yes....I was wondering what the question mark was about.
 

old buzzard

Senior
Dec 30, 2005
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As I stated, I feel that Trump weakens NATO when he doesn't give unwavering support (with his words) to them. Once you call them obsolete, if you want to convince people that you've done a 180 on those remarks, you pretty much need to confirm your support in all ways possible to them every chance you get. I (and some NATO allies) don't believe that he's done that. Fortunately others in the Trump admin have tried to reaffirm U.S. support.

I would think that with us donating 3.61% of our GDP to help keep NATO funded while others do not contribute their promised 2% would be all the proof necessary to affirm U.S. support for NATO. Trump reminding other nations that they are shirking their financial obligations does not mean we are wavering in our support of NATO.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nato-share-breakdown-country-2017-2
 

WVPATX

Freshman
Jan 27, 2005
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Apparently you can't read, good luck on learning how. If NATO members don't believe what Trump says regarding support then I don't blame them for making other plans regarding the future security of their countries.
There lack of payment goes back decades, this is not a Trump issue. He is making it one and will force them to pay up.
 

WVPATX

Freshman
Jan 27, 2005
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And the guy lecturing them about paying bills has declared bankruptcy four times.

[pfftt]

You've obviously never been in business nor know anything about it. But if one has the ability to pay and does not pay, that is not bankruptcy. That is shirking your responsibilities and Germany is clearly shirking their responsibilities and need to be called out. They are a very wealthy country.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
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And the guy lecturing them about paying bills has declared bankruptcy four times.

[pfftt]
And the real moron is the dumbfuk who doesnt understand bankruptcy and running a business. Why are you so damn stupid?
 

old buzzard

Senior
Dec 30, 2005
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And the guy lecturing them about paying bills has declared bankruptcy four times.

So what do you suggest - continue letting the U.S. foot the bill for protecting Europe while most of them continue to slide on their fair share of the cost ? It's you and me and every American tax payer that the NATO nations have been taking advantage of. Trump just was the messenger.
 
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You've obviously never been in business nor know anything about it. But if one has the ability to pay and does not pay, that is not bankruptcy. That is shirking your responsibilities and Germany is clearly shirking their responsibilities and need to be called out. They are a very wealthy country.

I have had my own business.

You clearly can't comprehend my post. Your hero, little hands donnie, has declared bankruptcy four times.