Is school-based football doomed to second tier status?

[SweetWalter34]

Rather than hijack the "success factor" thread, thought We could start a new one here for everyone's thoughts on the subject.
Here's how it started:

"Look at the other, non-football, school-based sports today. Virtually all of them now compete at the second tier of competition. The top tier of competition is controlled by private clubs rostered with athletes from dozens of zip codes.
School-based teams are largely irrelevant in the rankings of the state's or nation's best teams.
Private club teams dominate primarily because club athletes train and play with the best against the best."

and

"Simply follow the money.
The rise of the pay-to-play model in youth sports over the past two decades has relegated school-based teams to the second tier in virtually every team sport except football. Few observers of youth sports dispute this cause and effect. You disagree?
Private schools are pay-to-play.
IMG Academy is pay-to-play.
The various pay-to-play football models (schools and sports academies) are converging (not merging) into the top-tier model of youth athletics. Intentionally splitting the publics away from the privates now as you're suggesting merely serves to accelerate the trend toward the publics' second-class status in football."

Is school-based football doomed to second tier status as has happened in most other school-based sports? Why/Why Not?

 

[mc140]

7 on 7 Teams have done a good job convincing people to pay them a bunch
of money for something that does not matter in recruiting. Colleges do
not attend nor care about AAU 7 on 7.

As for 11 on 11 football the money is not there nor with all the safety issues will people be inclined to play full contact football 12 months a year.

 

[SweetWalter34]

MC:
Why do many FBS college programs request 7 on 7 video from recruits?
7 on 7 might not mean much to you, but that doesn't mean it hasn't become important.

And remember, 7 on 7 is just one member among many in the converging pay-to-play football industry.

 

[Jiggs]

In my comment on the other thread I did not mean to say this is where football is headed, though it is not inconceivable that this is the next step these football academies may take. That is forming contact football all star teams on a regional/national basis. It may or may not take off, it may not be on their radar, and it may not be feasible from a monetary standpoint, but it would not surprise me that this would be the next step these 7v7 academies take.

 

[mc140]

Originally posted by SweetWalter34:
MC:
Why do many FBS college programs request 7 on 7 video from recruits?
7 on 7 might not mean much to you, but that doesn't mean it hasn't become important.

And remember, 7 on 7 is just one member among many in the converging pay-to-play football industry.

They will request film of anything they can get their hands on. Doesnt take away from the fact 7 on 7 in no way represents actual football. If a kid was bad during the season, then looks likes an all star with no equipment on, hes not picking up offers because of that.

 

[SweetWalter34]

Sure, it's possible the 7 on 7 clubs might take the lead in building-out the new top-tier structure,

And/Or...

It might also be the elite high school programs themselves.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/story/2012-08-23/Interstate-games-on-the-rise-in-high-school-football/57254928/1

And/Or...

It might be one of the other pay-to-play industry members.

Just follow the money (ESPN).

And act quickly.

This new "association" isn't going to require too many years to take shape.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Sweet:
If a school is requesting 7 on 7 film it is simply because there is not enough game film available for that school to make a final decision. As MC said there is no way a kid will get an offer from 7 on 7 with no game film to match. A respectable High School coach word is stronger than 7 on 7 results. The reality in Basketball and other like sports, what a kid does in the AAU game or summer league game can and will translate to the college level. 7 on 7 can't translate to football under no circumstances. Football consist of Run game, Pass game and Special Teams play. 7 on 7 only covers one part of 1/3 of football. Pass rush dictate that true amount of time available to the QB. 4 seconds is unreal. I will also add that there is only so much football a person can play in the year. A kid that plays too much football will minimize his chance to make it to the next level. Can you imagine an running back playing regular season and then participate in a "travel league" in the off season. INJURIES will come.

 

[SweetWalter34]

LHS:
You are missing the main thing, the biggest threat to school-based football.
It's not about 7 on 7's disadvantages relative to 11 on 11.
It's about the entire pay-to-play model vs the entire school-based model.
The money train is comin', LHS, whether you like it or not, and your disdain for it's shortcomings won't be strong enough to keep it from running you over.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Sweet:
Let's save revisit this post 10 years from now. Even now AAU hasn't taken over Basketball to the point where "pay to play" model has taken over. Public schools still own Basketball!. What makes you think Football is any different?

 

[SweetWalter34]

Choo, Choo...

 

[Anon1754760634]

It's an amazingly interesting subject, one that I have been witnessing for several years now.

I'm still not sure how I feel about the entire 7 on 7 deal to be honest. If kids aren't in another sport I don't see the harm.

Yet it's quickly spinning out of control on several levels and is really starting to boil. I'm awaiting my first all our brawl at a 7on7 event because trsut me....it's coming.

It's like anything to be honest. You have some good, hard working coaches and organizations who are trying to better kids. Unfortunately those seem to be becoming the minority more and more from my view.

Several other angles to talk about here but how much time do we all have?

My feeling has been if your paying money make sure no matter what you do, you are improving and are getting better...whether it's a trainer, position coach or 7on7 that you indeed are improving.

Othewise...let the buyer beware.

 

[Bwm57]

Why is it that I feel there is an ulterior motive to this thread?

 

[mc140]

Originally posted by Bwm57:
Why is it that I feel there is an ulterior motive to this thread?

I wonder which "AAU" team sweetwalter is tied into.

 

[godfthr53]

Originally posted by edgytim:
It's an amazingly interesting subject, one that I have been witnessing for several years now.

I'm still not sure how I feel about the entire 7 on 7 deal to be honest. If kids aren't in another sport I don't see the harm.

Yet it's quickly spinning out of control on several levels and is really starting to boil. I'm awaiting my first all our brawl at a 7on7 event because trsut me....it's coming.

It's like anything to be honest. You have some good, hard working coaches and organizations who are trying to better kids. Unfortunately those seem to be becoming the minority more and more from my view.

Several other angles to talk about here but how much time do we all have?

My feeling has been if your paying money make sure no matter what you do, you are improving and are getting better...whether it's a trainer, position coach or 7on7 that you indeed are improving.

Othewise...let the buyer beware.

I hope it happens and the coaches that like to pump their chest and smack talk to each other beat each other into oblivion. I always thought 7 on 7 could be good a thing until I went to a tournament and it was all about the coaches.

 

[emillika]

After 3 years of 7v7 I agree with you guys. It's a ticking time bomb. With hindsight being 20/20 I don't know if I'd encourage/enable my son to do it over again.

Just my .02 (and worth less).

 

[GMAN81]

This is one of the more interesting threads I have seen in quite some time. I am not sure how you could make a travel type football league work. Maybe someone else can help me there.

If you take baseball, for instance, the whole "travel" thing got started years ago when the competitive culture we grew up in changed. I am sure most of us played Little League baseball when we were kids. In those days you had to try out for a team. There were no automatic sign-ups and assignment to a team in the league. If you didn't make a team you played park district baseball, which was crap. Then they had a "minor little league" for those who didn't make little league teams.

Even if you did make a LL team playing time wasn't guaranteed. The best guys, as far as the coaches went, played. I can remember guys on my team sitting the bench almost all the time.

That all changed. Somehow the people of the lesser talented kids and a changing culture developed leagues where every kid who signed up was put on a team. No tryouts were necessary. They called it "evaluations." Little league baseball died in my town when that happened. The result was a bunch of kids who weren't very good playing with and against kids who were good. I always thought that was a dangerous combination.

Finally after years of that, the parents of the more competitive kids, looked for other avenues. The kids wanted to play competitively and weren't finding that in their leagues anymore. So, travel ball was born. I can remember very few teams. But the teams were all good. The leagues these kids came from got progressively worse as far as talent went as travel ball grew.

So, the next thing that happened was dads of kids who were in the in-house leagues wanted their kids to play travel ball. But, there weren't a lot of teams and many of those kids didn't make travel teams. SO, the dads started their own teams. With the influx of kids coming into travel ball the talent level decreased dramatically. Now there are travel teams everywhere and it is really watered down.

I am guessing that may be true in other sports. But I know the reason the other travel sports got started was the reason I stated before. Can this eventually happen in football? I don't see why not. You can pick an all star team anywhere and beat any high school team in any sport. I know there are high school coaches who really dislike the whole "travel" thing. But it seems as if the ones who have embraced it more have better teams. That was what I saw. I am sure there are exceptions.

Maybe this wave will continue. I don't see an end to it right now.

 

[psspfan]

kids want to play for their school in front of their peers that they see each day of each week and under the lights, with parents and grandparents watching. the 7-7 underwear antics do not even come close. Lots of freshmen playing football for the first time at their highschool rise to become great varsity players, don't see boom or core picking those kids up and training them. no football is not doomed....HS football is about the only sport that pretty much is required to get really good at the particular sport, because there is nothing that can replace it, unlike travel baseball or AAU basketball or travel soccer. Nah, 7-7 is more on the verge of demise than HS football as more parents like Melika pass on their experiences. he's not the only one who have realized its a scam.

 

[LHSTigers94]

They actually have a National High School basketball tournament now. Not on paper, a real tournament. You just can't compare football (or spin offs) to other sports. Football is the one sport that is unique to itself. Anyone can play all other sports at anytime. Football you can't.

 

[SweetWalter34]

This just in:

Notre Dame University Athletic Director spoke up yesterday in favor of forming a new league of paid student athletes, and sooner rather than later.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/25112658

Will this stop at 17 and 18 year-old student athletes, or soon include 15 and 16 year-old student athletes?

 

[SweetWalter34]

How many years away are we from professional football franchises (NFL or others) forming their own "development academies" for elite youth players, something like the way US and European professional soccer franchises operate? Chicago Bears Development Academy? Probably not as long as the McCaskey's own the club. But Oakland Raiders Development Academy, sure, why not?

 

[sundevil1988]

The Chicago 7 on 7 scene is a ticking time bomb. For those who follow certain twitter accounts, you'd know what I'm talking about. The 7 on 7 tourney on April 19th at COD should be an interesting day to watch the egos flare up.

 

[godfthr53]

Originally posted by sundevil1988:


The Chicago 7 on 7 scene is a ticking time bomb. For those who follow certain twitter accounts, you'd know what I'm talking about. The 7 on 7 tourney on April 19th at COD should be an interesting day to watch the egos flare up.

get your

ready.