Is talent the issue on this baseball team?

[drunkernhelldawg]

I do not follow baseball that closely, but when we blow this many leads in the late innings it's hard to for me to believe that talent is the main issue. I know that it takes a lot to win. But we've had a good chance to win several of the games we've lost.

I am sure talent is part of the issue; other teams are more talentled than us. But is that why we are losing? With the way it is happening, I'd say no. The problem for the baseball staff is that acknowledging that talent is not the problem takes away their ability to blame Polk for the shitstorm they're in.

 

[drunkernhelldawg]

I do not follow baseball that closely, but when we blow this many leads in the late innings it's hard to for me to believe that talent is the main issue. I know that it takes a lot to win. But we've had a good chance to win several of the games we've lost.

I am sure talent is part of the issue; other teams are more talentled than us. But is that why we are losing? With the way it is happening, I'd say no. The problem for the baseball staff is that acknowledging that talent is not the problem takes away their ability to blame Polk for the shitstorm they're in.

 

[Todd4State]

And I think the two biggest are talent and attitude. We actually don't blow very many leads- after 7 innings with a lead we are 13-2, after 8 with a lead we are 14-1, and after 8 with a lead we are 15-0.

We hit the ball OK, but the biggest problem I see is that we are horrible on defense. I'm pretty sure that we are last in the SEC in defense, and on top of that our range is horrible in general- in other words, we have guys that can't get to balls that a lot of other SEC players could get to, and those are not usually recorded as errors, so that hurts us in the form of earned runs. We do have a ton of freshmen pitching- like 6, and they're taking their lumps this year with a horrible defense behind them which probably jacks their ERA up at least an earned run.

We also lack team speed, and that limits our offense as far as creating runs. We have very few, if any hitters that are good clutch hitters.

As far as attitude, we have maybe 1-2 guys that actually seem to care about winning, and are willing to go all out to do what it takes to win. I believe that players can overcome a lot of deficiencies just by busting their ***.

As far as the coaching- the biggest mistake that they've made was screwing around with Routt's delivery. That has really hurt us because he would help our pitching staff out a lot. I also don't think Cohen has gotten everyone to buy into what he wants to do. He should have figured out last year who would and wouldn't and then cut the rest, but instead they are lingering around stinking up the place.

We've also had a lot of other injuries this year, and that has really affected us as well, and has limited what we could do with our lineup.

 

[coursesuper]

when where and who did you play for?

 

[Todd4State]

My Dad played at MSU as a catcher in the 70's for Gregory, Bragan, and Polk. He was drafted out of high school by the Royals, but his career was ended when he was catching a pop up at Dudy-Noble and his chest protector got caught on something and flung him into the dugout and he ended up with a concussion, broken ribs, and a broken collarbone on his throwing arm. After that, he could barely throw.

My uncle played in the Major Leagues as a relief pitcher for the Kansas City Royals and St. Louis Cardinals for nine years. My uncle was also a minor league pitching coach for years with the Padres, Brewers, Royals, and Dodgers.

Those two guys taught me most everything I know about baseball. When I was in college at MSU, my uncle would let me go with him to spring training with him when I was on spring break in Florida. I learned a lot while I was there about how they prepare and think and how they do strategy, which was quite different than what I was accustomed to because back in the 90's believe it or not, I was a Polk theorist. I had read his book at MSU, and I believed in "That's baseball". Hanging out at spring training and talking to my uncle about baseball really changed how I viewed the game from a strategy standpoint. They believe in "You make your own luck" instead of "That's baseball". In MLB, they believe in being aggressive, attacking- you will hear them say things like attack the strike zone and attack the ball as a hitter. Reading Polk's book was very helpful because it really was good as far as breaking down how defenses work and the very basic fundmentals of defense. And yeah, they cuss A LOT.


One of my firends calls me a baseball Jones, and when vhdawg says I'm married to baseball, sadly, he's not far from the truth. Basically, I've spent a ton of time researching and doing a lot of studying the game- I've been a fan and have watched baseball since I was six. Recently, I've become really interested in Japanese baseball because it's a little bit different than American baseball.

 

[AceLeroy]

We also lack team speed, and that limits our offense as far as creating runs. We have very few, if any hitters that are good clutch hitters.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes , We do lack team speed.............But this coaching staff makes up for that by trying to take extra bases with slow runners who make unforced outs at third and home.

BRILLIANT !!!!!!!!!!

 

[whatever.sixpack]

If attitude was a big of a problem as "conspiracy Todd" would have you believe, then I think you would see more blowouts like USM from the other night. But game after game, we continue to score runs and cut into leads in the late innings, and we actually had a lot of come from behind wins in the 9th earlier in the year. So we don't really quit.

I don't really understand why you guys overanalyze it so much, it's really not that hard to figure out. Our pitching sucks. Our defense isn't very good either, but I'd blame our woes almost totally on pitching

 

[Todd4State]

which players are busting their *** all the time not named Conner Powers? For the record, not once have I ever said that they've quit, and I've actually said many, many times that I don't think that the players are tanking it and are trying- but you can not tell me that these players are doing everything possible to win. Whenever they make a mistake, they sulk. If you think these players only care about winning and MSU, you are grossly mistaken. That's no conspiracy- it's the truth.

 

[whatever.sixpack]

So they sulk after a mistake but still come back, don't quit, and still play hard?

Baseball's pretty much an individual game anyway, so if they all want to do good for themselves, it benefits the team. All this rah rah win one for the team and care about MSU bs is overblown.

And one more thing, if I hold a coach responsible for anything, it's the effort, attitude, and discipline the team shows. If there were players that weren't giving full effort, were tanking, or sulking (as if that matters if doesn't affect them the next play), then it's on Cohen

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

and losing more than winning! If not, you have no idea.... If you are on such a team...it's please God, just get this **** over with.
I think attitude is a major factor with this team, If Cohen is at fault, its for pushing them too hard.
They continue to somewhat perform off of the tallent that they do have, but attitude provides that extra effort.

 

[AceLeroy]

which players are busting their *** all the time not named Conner Powers? For the record, not once have I ever said that they've quit, and I've actually said many, many times that I don't think that the players are tanking it and are trying- but you can not tell me that these players are doing everything possible to win. Whenever they make a mistake, they sulk. If you think these players only care about winning and MSU, you are grossly mistaken. That's no conspiracy- it's the truth.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I gotta ask you........You said yourself that We lack team speed and You alsosaid that We hit pretty good. Knowing that , How do you defend the fact that this team has made a 2 yearhabit out of getting gunned on the basepaths trying to take extra bases and losing runners at third and home with no outs?

I know I harp on this base running **** , but GD!!!!! it IS important and this staff just seems like they don't f-ing get it. They make the same mistakes over and over and over.

If you are going to get on the players asses for their continued mistakes , do the same for the coaching staff who SHOULD be more mature and should know better than to keep on making the same mistakes. Instead of doing that , They just love to point the finger somewhere else whether it be at the players or at polk.

IN a mid-week game a few days ago We made an unforced out at third for the first out of the inning. Thatisn't on the player , that isn't because these players are soft or any of that other nonsense that the cohen defenders love to say.........IT IS 100% on JOHN GAWD DAM COHEN. It is his f-ing job to teach these players how to run the bases.

This team runs the bases like a GD special olympic kick ball team and it is a GD disgrace! IT isn't on polk or any playersthat are called pussies........IT IS QUITE SIMPLY COHEN'S GD FAULT ,And Our team is worse for it.

 

[Todd4State]

So they sulk after a mistake but still come back, don't quit, and still play hard?

Baseball's pretty much an individual game anyway, so if they all want to do good for themselves, it benefits the team. All this rah rah win one for the team and care about MSU bs is overblown.

And one more thing, if I hold a coach responsible for anything, it's the effort, attitude, and discipline the team shows. If there were players that weren't giving full effort, were tanking, or sulking (as if that matters if doesn't affect them the next play), then it's on Cohen

If you call "coming back" getting within one run and then choking when you get close, then we have a totally different definition of "coming back".

And that's the thing you don't understand- they don't want to be good enough for themselves. I'm not saying that they don't want to win- I'm saying that they don't want to win badly enough.

These players were doing the same crap under Polk and Raffo, and I would imagine that it would be likely be doing the same for Joe Torre or Skip Bertman. It couldn't possibly be because, oh I don't know, that the players suck.

And you contadict yourself when you say that this "rah rah" stuff is overrated, and yet you blame the coach for their lack of effort and their attitude?

I don't think you quite understand just how good the SEC is, and I don't think you understand just how bad these players are. You don't just hire a coach and then everyone magically becomes an All-Star after they do a few fielding drills. These players were brought in with the understanding- from Polk's staff- that they would be PROMISED starting spots no matter what- and no matter how bad they did. When you do that, you bring in people that do not want to compete and expect to have things given to them. That is why I say that they have attitude problems.

And as far as winning for MSU- uh, what do you want? A bunch of individuals that don't give a **** about who they play for and represent? We have that now- how's that working for us? Heaven forbid, if we give someone some scholarship money that they be inclined to play hard for the team that's giving it to them.

 

[Steakonastick]

yal ever thought that maybe we try to stretch out hits because our coaches belive that we have a better chance of the other teams player making a mistake then our guys getting the clutch hits? I do not agree cohen has been perfect and yes some changes need to be made this offseason. Every body associated with our program including our fans went to sleep in the 2000's and let everybody else catch up with us. Some of yal act like were the new york yankees of college baseball. Yes we have had some really good teams and yes some teams that should have won the whole thing. But we never did. and 2007 was a fluke, we were the hottest team in the country for 2 weeks and that got us in.

Since 2000, the number of sec teams in the college world series is 18, and we have been once.

Our best years were when majority of the country and the sec did not give a care about baseball besides lsu. now were behind the 8 ball and trying to catch up when its alot more competitive for players. Ask yourself if your a 16-18yr old kid and have not grown up going to baseball games at state. Where would you want to go play at? Now think you were born around 1992-1994. by the time your old enough to know whats going on you have only seen msu baseball in the 2000's

Yes our fans are amazing, but we dont show up for games like we used to. Ill admit I dont come as much as i used to. Kids wants to go where they can win and will put them in the best spot to go pro. Look at our roster. If you asked any sec coach right now if he would want any of our players this year or for years to come which guys do you think he would take. My guess powers, shepard, routt, and some of our freshmen pitchers.

 

[Todd4State]

that told me that if we got thrown out at home 9 times in a game that would be OK because it wasn't third base.

I don't know what situation that you are talking about because I didn't see it- being honest. And it may very well have been Cohen's fault that that happened somehow.

I do know that you called out Ole Miss's catcher a couple of weeks ago for getting thrown out at third on a play, and that was a play where everything was in Hightower favor, but Ogden made a Web Gem caliber play to throw the guy out. My point- just because you get thrown out, it doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad play on the part of the runner or the coach.

Now, am I saying that everytime that we get thrown out, it's not our fault or a coaches fault? No.

Honestly, in my opinion, to me it seems like we've run a LOT less this year than last year- epsecially with guys like Butler and Sneed, and I'm talking about taking extra bases here. It also seems like to me, that we are getting thrown out less than we were last year. And I'll say that with this- I don't have any stats that concretely show that we are getting thrown out more or less, and someone may come up with some that will prove me wrong. It actually seems to me that we are taking more extra bases and scoring more runs because of it.

More often than not, if anyone is at fault with baserunning it's one of two people the runner or the base coaches- usually the third base coach. Not the head coach.

 

[Todd4State]

Winning cures all ills, helps morale, and thus attitude.

 

[War Machine Dawg]

[No message]

 

[War Machine Dawg]

<span style="font-weight: bold;">My point- just because you get thrown out, it doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad play on the part of the runner or the coach.</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold;">Now, am I saying that everytime that we get thrown out, it's not our fault or a coaches fault? No. </span>

Exactly, Todd. Yeah, you shouldn't make the 1st or 3rd out of an inning at 3B, generally. But there are times where taking that chance is justified. If the D makes the play, fine. Give the D credit making a hell of a play.

 

[Coach34]

how do they not know how the hell to run bases before they get to D-1? Its not like they havent already played in 500 games or more during their lifetime to that point..I'm pretty sure it gets covered every season by their HS coach, not to mention alot of it is instinct anyway.

 

[ShineOnYouCrazyBulldog]

You've obviously never been interviewed.

 

[bill brasky.sixpack]

Running bases is a bit of both, I think it is instincts and coaching. Our Coaching obviously blows, anybody that argues with that is delusional, we just set a new mark for consecutive losses. Anybody that argues Cohen has done anything but a shite job is retarded. He deserves another year though just to see it out and be fair, but if next year there is no Hoover or Regional he needs to be fired no questions asked.

 

[inthedawghouse]

<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">"These players were brought in with the understanding- from Polk's staff- that they would be PROMISED starting spots no matter what- and no matter how bad they did."</span><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">
</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">Todd, you bring a lot of great info here but the above never happened. </span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">
</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">
</span></font></div>

 

[8dog]

d

 

[AceLeroy]

that told me that if we got thrown out at home 9 times in a game that would be OK because it wasn't third base.

I don't know what situation that you are talking about because I didn't see it- being honest. And it may very well have been Cohen's fault that that happened somehow.

I do know that you called out Ole Miss's catcher a couple of weeks ago for getting thrown out at third on a play, and that was a play where everything was in Hightower favor, but Ogden made a Web Gem caliber play to throw the guy out. My point- just because you get thrown out, it doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad play on the part of the runner or the coach.

Now, am I saying that everytime that we get thrown out, it's not our fault or a coaches fault? No.

Honestly, in my opinion, to me it seems like we've run a LOT less this year than last year- epsecially with guys like Butler and Sneed, and I'm talking about taking extra bases here. It also seems like to me, that we are getting thrown out less than we were last year. And I'll say that with this- I don't have any stats that concretely show that we are getting thrown out more or less, and someone may come up with some that will prove me wrong. It actually seems to me that we are taking more extra bases and scoring more runs because of it.

More often than not, if anyone is at fault with baserunning it's one of two people the runner or the base coaches- usually the third base coach. Not the head coach.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The play You are refering to in which the Ole Miss catcher got shot down is a prime example of poor base running and I will tell you why.

A base runnermust know what he is going to do before the ball is hit , much like an infielder must knowwhere he is going with the ball if it is hit to him.

The base runner in that position knows before the ball is ever hit that with 2 outs , the only way he is going to try and take third if is there is no doubt that he is going to make it.

He didn't do that. He saw the ball get away and misjudged how far it was going to go. You call it a web gem.......that is a stretch. The ball didn't go very far and We made a good throw , but the runner was out by a mile. The play wasn't even close.

End result , instead of having 2 on and nobody out , they end up with 1 on and 1 out. Huge differenceand 100 % preventable by thinking BEFORE the ball is ever put into play.

He broke the #1 rule of base running........Don't make the first or third out at third base.

Now to the getting thrown out at home 9 times in a game.

Obviously that is not going to happen. I just used that because everytime you have defended the base running here You mention that We "run less" and that has nothing to do with good base running.

The point was , I have no problem getting shot at the plate for the third out of an inning as long as it is a close play. That falls into reward worth the risk. I will never complain about trying to score on a close play at the plate with 2 outs. That is the time to gamble.

Getting gunned at third to end an inning is a whole different story. Getting to third isn't scoring and is not worth the risk with 2 outs because you are already in scoring position with 2 outs at second base.

Are you really telling me that you don't see a difference in making the the third out at home or at third base. It seems like that is what you are saying.

 

[AceLeroy]

how do they not know how the hell to run bases before they get to D-1? Its not like they havent already played in 500 games or more during their lifetime to that point..I'm pretty sure it gets covered every season by their HS coach, not to mention alot of it is instinct anyway.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But just trying to be fair C34. I think you can understand that.

Yes , You are correct. These players should know how to run the bases before they get to D-1 , but you would be surprised at how many don't andeven the coaches they played for don't uderstand good base running.

Here is the thing. If they DON'T know how to run the bases correctly after high school , isn't it on their college coach to teach them how?

If you are going to blame the players for base running mistakes , shouldn't the head coach take it out of thier hands and simply tell them to do whatever the base coaches tell them to do?

That puts the blame on the base coaches........IF they are waving players into unforced outs , maybe they should be held accountable.

If the same old base running errors are still going on late into the second year of the head coach................well ..........isn't it about time that he be held acountable? Can He not either force his will on his base running coaches or get rid of them , considering his job is on the line , as a result of how they perform?

Half a season of bad base running could be on the players or the base coaches.........2 years worth without any correction falls directly on the head coach.

 

[Todd4State]

Actually, not much. The inning is over in both instances, the rally is killed and all runners have to go back to the dugout. Same for second. What makes third base so special when it's the exact same result for the other three bases?

And the guy for Ole Miss makes that play probably 8 out of 10 times. What made that play hard was Ogden had to chase the ball down and then he had to throw the ball flatfooted on wet grass and then on top of all that we had to make the tag. The risk/reward was definately in the runners favor.

 

[AceLeroy]

Actually, not much. The inning is over in both instances, the rally is killed and all runners have to go back to the dugout. Same for second. What makes third base so special when it's the exact same result for the other three bases?

And the guy for Ole Miss makes that play probably 8 out of 10 times. What made that play hard was Ogden had to chase the ball down and then he had to throw the ball flatfooted on wet grass and then on top of all that we had to make the tag. The risk/reward was definately in the runners favor.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe I can explain this.

As I have said , It is about risk and reward.

Now see what You did? In your comparison You only did half of that , risk. Of course if You are thrown outthe inning is over. The risk is the same at third and home.

Now look at the part you didn't compare , reward. With 2 outs and Let's say a 50/50 chance of being safe , at the plate iF You are safe the reward is You have scored a run.With 2 outs andthe same 50/50 chance of being safe at third , You don't score a run , You still have work to do to score.

Doesn't that make make the risk/reward value much better at home than at third?

With a chance to score a run , it is worth the risk to take a chance at the plate. It is not worht that same risk to get to third with 2 outs because you are already in scoring position at second base and it is easier to score on a single from second base with 2 outs than it is with 1 or 2 outs.

This is why it has been taught this way for years. Don't make the first or third out at third base.

 

[perch0]

I have not followed the team real close but I think it is mainly talent. We are last in fielding and next to last in pitching. Anything else that can go wrong just adds to this.

 

[patdog]

Even if you're safe at 3rd with 2 outs, you still need a base hit to score, which you would probably score on a base hit from 2nd anyway. It's not quite that simple as you could score on an infield hit, an error, or a wild pitch/passed ball from third but all of those are fairly rare in baseball (even an error only happens maybe 20% as often as a hit does and the others far far less). So, you gain no real advantage by taking 3rd with 2 outs and take a huge risk. However, at home if you succeed you will ALWAYS score a run. In fact, if it's a 50-50 play at home, your chances of scoring are much higher by taking that chance than if you stay at 3rd.

 

[Todd4State]

but the reward part is also the part that you often times don't take into account with our team. And there have been plenty of times that we have taken an extra base and it has led to a big inning for us. My point is that more often than not, we get the reward as opposed to burned by the risk. Most people don't point thaty out becuase when it works, all is well, but when it doesn't work, people are up in arms. And as I have said in my opinion we are running MUCH less than last year. Whether we are or not, I believe that we are certainly running more effectively. Last year, it was an almost weekly topic. This year, I only really see one poster bringing it up at all. That is my whole point about the play with the Ole Miss player- the rewards were in his favor, but even though the odds are with him, that doesn't take away the risk. In his case, he got burned.

http://sports.espn.go.com...=kurkjian_tim&id=1969362



This is a great article on baserunning. By the way it mentions the don't make the third out at third rule that you are referring to. Personally, I was always taught don't make the third out at any base second, third, or home- but then again, I tend to be very aggressive and they probably wanted to limit my aggressiveness.

The point that the article makes is that baserunning is more about instinct and the individual players than anything, and also the third base coach. Not the head coach. It also talks about how just because a runner is thrown out, it is not necessarily a bad baserunning play.

 

[whatever.sixpack]

I agree Pat, amazing that Todd either doesn't get that, or he'll go to the ends of the earth to defend Cohen for doing something that is clearly too much of a risk.

Just b/c you post 200 times a day and dominate every thread doesn't mean you should be the resident baseball guru.

 

[AceLeroy]

but the reward part is also the part that you often times don't take into account with our team. And there have been plenty of times that we have taken an extra base and it has led to a big inning for us. My point is that more often than not, we get the reward as opposed to burned by the risk. Most people don't point thaty out becuase when it works, all is well, but when it doesn't work, people are up in arms. And as I have said in my opinion we are running MUCH less than last year. Whether we are or not, I believe that we are certainly running more effectively. Last year, it was an almost weekly topic. This year, I only really see one poster bringing it up at all. That is my whole point about the play with the Ole Miss player- the rewards were in his favor, but even though the odds are with him, that doesn't take away the risk. In his case, he got burned.

http://sports.espn.go.com...=kurkjian_tim&id=1969362

This is a great article on baserunning. By the way it mentions the don't make the third out at third rule that you are referring to. Personally, I was always taught don't make the third out at any base second, third, or home- but then again, I tend to be very aggressive and they probably wanted to limit my aggressiveness.

The point that the article makes is that baserunning is more about instinct and the individual players than anything, and also the third base coach. Not the head coach. It also talks about how just because a runner is thrown out, it is not necessarily a bad baserunning play.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is so much wrong with what you just posted it is going to take more than one response to point all of it out.

I'll try to start with the worst of it.

Quote " MY point is that more often that not , we get the reward as opposed to burned by the risk. Most people don't point that out because when it works , all is well , but when it doesn't work , people are up in arms. And asI have said in my opinion we are running MUCH less than last year."

First off , your reference of "when it works" is flawed. A bad base running play never "works". You might get away with it but all that means is you just got away with doing something stupid.

It compares to sitting at a blackjack table and hitting on 19. Youmight get lucky and draw a 2 for 21 , but that doesn't make it a good play , you just got away with it.

Once again You say that We are running much less than last year and you even went all caps on MUCH. Again , It isn't about how MUCH we are running , but are We running when the risk is worth the reward.

Back to the Ole miss player who you say would be safe 8 out of 10 times. I strongly disagree.He was out by a mile. What makes it even funnier is that You are on here daily talking about how bad Our defense is and We made that play easily. If Our defense is so bad wouldn't he be out by even more if they were playing a good defense.

Lastly , until I prod deeper into the stupidity of your post........even if the Ole Miss runner would have been safe 8 of 10 times ( which I doubt like hell considering We threw him out ) that isn't even good enough. It still breaks the rule of not making the first out at third base. He clearly would have been better off by staying at second base.

 

[dawgoneyall]

Any other explanation is not pertinent.

If you think otherwise....... go watch soccer or curling or something.

 

[beyourowndawg]

...is itkosher to make the 2nd out at 3rd? Never understood why the 2nd out gets left out on this one. If it's better to be on 2nd with 0 or 2 outs, why is it not also better to be on 2nd with 1 out than taking the risk at 3rd?

 

[AceLeroy]

...is itkosher to make the 2nd out at 3rd? Never understood why the 2nd out gets left out on this one. If it's better to be on 2nd with 0 or 2 outs, why is it not also better to be on 2nd with 1 out than taking the risk at 3rd?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It ismore forgivable to make the 2nd out at third because if you get there with 1 out there are a lot of ways you can score from third with 1 out.

Goes back to risk and reward and knowing what you are going to do before the ball is hit. If you are on first with 1 out You know before the ball is hit that You will risk a close play at third because if you get there with 1 out you have a good chance to score.

So yes , making the 2nd out at thirdWILL happen sometimes and thatisn't always a bad base running play. That makes it different from making the first or third out at third which is ALWAYS a base running error and unacceptable , no matter what some might think.

 

[Todd4State]

that if you make a bad baserunning play and it works out, it's still not good baserunning. Just as just because you got thrown out it doesn't necessarily make it a bad baserunning play.

But if you are suggesting that the reason that our aggressive baserunning works strictly because of luck- that's just totally wrong.

Especially since this team is anything but lucky.

As far as the defensive play, yes out team is bad defensively- I've said that a million times, and it's true. At the same time, I've also said that Ogden is one of our best defensive players many, many times. Just because you are a bad team defensively, it does not mean that the will never, ever make a good play.

But, feel free to call me stupid, and I will feel free to tell you to go %*$% off.

 

[Todd4State]

...is itkosher to make the 2nd out at 3rd? Never understood why the 2nd out gets left out on this one. If it's better to be on 2nd with 0 or 2 outs, why is it not also better to be on 2nd with 1 out than taking the risk at 3rd?

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It ismore forgivable to make the 2nd out at third because if you get there with 1 out there are a lot of ways you can score from third with 1 out.

Goes back to risk and reward and knowing what you are going to do before the ball is hit. If you are on first with 1 out You know before the ball is hit that You will risk a close play at third because if you get there with 1 out you have a good chance to score.

So yes , making the 2nd out at thirdWILL happen sometimes and thatisn't always a bad base running play. That makes it different from making the first or third out at third which is ALWAYS a base running error and unacceptable , no matter what some might think.

Cohen is the coach of course.

 

[AceLeroy]

Todd4State wrote:
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But if you are suggesting that the reason that our aggressive baserunning works strictly because of luck- that's just totally wrong.

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You are way off base again.

In NO WAY am I suggesting that our aggressive baserunning worksstrickly because of luck...........I am suggesting that our aggressivebaserunning doesn't work AT ALL.

Aggressive is your term , I prefer wreckless.

For You to suggest that this team has benefitted more from this ****** base running more than they have lost is ALMOST as uninformed and ignorant as You saying there is no difference in making the third out at home or third. And don't deny it , you did so more than once.

Now , I understand why you defend this team when I complain of bad base running........You have shown that You don't know a bad base running play when you see one.</p>

Really , I mean really........You consider yourself a baseball guy and You posted that there wasn't much difference in making the third out at home or at third base? I knew better than that before I was 10 years old and so does anyone else who has ANY knowledge of base running.</p>

You should really just stop posting on this subject now , because I have exposed you as a mouth running peacock ( one who tries to show off ) who really doesn't know **** about what he is talking about.</p>

</p>

 

[Todd4State]

Because to suggest that we make a bad baserunning play every single time that we make a baserunning play of any sort good or bad is utterly ludicrous. You say that it doesn't work at all, and yet game after game goes by, and yet we manage to score runs efficiently. It's not like we're getting a ton of runners gunned down game after game. NO ONE regardless of what I know or don't is that lucky.

I may have screwed the baserunning thing up- and I admit to it, and I will even freely admit that I don't know everything about baseball. I never said I did. Baseball is like playing the piano- you can always learn more, and that is something I always will do over time. I know more baseball now than I did 10 years ago, and in 10 years I will now more than I do now. The "baseball guru" thing is something that was given to me by the sixpack and is something has kind of happened MUCH more than something that was sought on by me, and is not something that I annointed myself with, nor is it something that I would ever annoint myself as.

Heaven forbid that someone that likes a sport talks about it on a sports message board. I didn't realize that you had to be an expert to post an opinion on here or be correct 100% of the time.

And despite what I do or do not know, explain to me why you are the only one that really complains about this this year? You have still yet to prove that. I imagine that you are not the only MSU fan that "knows how to run the bases".

Heck, the main example in this thread is a guy on another team that got thrown out by us and maybe a play a week ago against USM. We've now played four games since then.

You can call me stupid, or a peacock, or whatever, but one thing that you will ALWAYS get from me is my opinion whether you agree or not, whether the board agrees or not, and or whether I am even right or wrong- and I am right way more than I am wrong, although when wrong, I will admit it and not bat an eye if I feel that I am legitimatly wrong- as is the case with the third out at third base.

 

[AceLeroy]

I may have screwed the baserunning thing up- and I admit to it,

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You admit You were wrong about making the first or third out at third base , Yet You still contend that the Ole Miss player whoMADE THE FIRST OUT AT THIRD BASE had risk and reward in his favor.

It can't be both ways Todd. Which is it. Eitherthe guy made a baserunning error , or You don't admit You were wrong.